ST 4351 (Sun 18 Oct) – Fly in the ointment

13 comments on “ST 4351 (Sun 18 Oct) – Fly in the ointment”

1. 6:13 for me for a pleasant stroll with some old chestnuts to help things along.

   I was a bit slow to get LINIMENT, but had no great problem with it as it’s long been on my list of difficult words (probably because I spelled it LINAMENT in the past, or at least was tempted to) and so was fairly fresh in my mind as I’d looked through the list as usual before Cheltenham.

   I take your point about some of the dubious anagram indicators, though since I started solving in the days when things were a lot looser, they didn’t really bother me too much.

2. I see that the online solution has BATTERING RMM for 11dn, which probably means that all online submissions were marked “Incorrect”. This sort of thing seems to happen all the time with the ST puzzle.
3. Hi
   I’m very new to cryptic crosswords but have been following this blog for a few months now trying to learn a bit more. I pretty much work on the ST crossword all week, returning each morning and evening to see if I can get any more clues.

   Funnily enough ‘liniment’ was the first clue I got on this puzzle. And I completed about half of it before checking the blog which is a definite improvement and must mean I am learning something!

   Anyway, there a couple of things I find confusing. I’m sure there are really simple explanations so I wondered if anyone could answer them for me?

   In 1 across, where do you get the ‘CA’ from at the beginning?

   In 5 across, how do you know just to use the first letter of ‘special’ or is this just one of a few different possibilities you might try?

   10 across, I don’t understand the window part of the clue. What is a charade in terms of a cryptic puzzle?

   Also, if anyone has any recommendations of good books or internet sites to learn more from I’d love to hear them. I think I may have been bitten by the cryptic puzzle but and I’d love to finish one of them one day…

   Thanks in advance!
   Amanda

   1. Answers:

      1. About = ‘c’ or ‘ca’, both abbreviations for ‘circa’. Might also be ‘re’.

      5. ‘S’ = special is another abbreviation, although not a very acceptable one.

      10. I didn’t follow it either – not a good clue.

      I suggest you try the easier puzzles during the week. The Sunday clues, as Neil keeps pointing out, are not very well designed. Practicing on this puzzle might get you into bad habits for thinking about proper clues.

   2. I’m curious to see 10a again now, but having lost my printout of this one, and the Crossword Club being out of service (at last, a ‘maintenance’ page!), I can’t.

      Welcome Amanda. Stick at it (and yes, try the weekday puzzles). I’m sure you’ll finish one before long.

4. Clue for 10 was:

   Close a window to annoy (4,2)

   Answer: wind up.

   1. Thanks, vinyl. I guess, as lennyco suggests below, it refers to windows on old cars (like the one on our driveway), though I have vague memories of winding up the top windows in our school classroom with a Heath Robinson mechanism.
      1. Thanks very much for these explanations in my absence this weekend. I’ll try to expand abbreviations like ‘ca.’ = ‘circa’ in future.

         Amanda – ‘charade’ is used by some people to describe a clue in which the wordplay gives the letters of the answer in order but broken down into groups. To cite a hackneyed example, ISLAMABAD, the capital of Pakistan, is usually clued something like

         I criticise a poor city (9)

         which is a ‘charade’ of ‘I SLAM A BAD’.

         Sometimes in a multi-word clue the charade is simply the answer phrase broken down into its component words, for example

         Simpleton hit picture (3,4) = MUG SHOT

         where ‘simpleton’ = MUG and ‘hit’ = SHOT. This could also be clued as a charade of MUG’S HOT.

         My description of 10ac as a charade, though, probably wasn’t accurate – see my reply to lennyco below.

         I agree with vinyl1 that ‘special’ for S is a rather dubious abbreviation but it comes up a lot and is worth remembering.

5. Not much difficulty here. I finished with the intersecting Arsonist and Bikini because, as Talbinho notes they both had dubious wording. I’m beginning to take that sort of thing in my stride though when I do the ST Crossword.

   I did not have any problem with Wind up though, which I saw as a double definition rather than a definition and a charade. I am old enough to remember winding up the window on my Morris Minor. We still use the phrase even though we press a button these days.

   Amanda, I agree with Vinyl, practicing on the ST will give you bad habits. The Guardian has a free crossword site with a weekly beginners’ crossword called the Quiptic. Also, on most Mondays, there is a crossword set by Rufus, a very elegant setter who is generally regarded as the easiest of cryptic setters.

   1. Thanks to everyone for your responses.

      I knew about ‘re’ but not ‘circa’ – one to add to my list. The ‘wind up’ answer makes much more sense to me now too.

      And thanks for all the tips – I will try the online and the Monday crosswords as suggested!

      Amanda

   2. I almost called 10ac a double definition, but decided that it wasn’t, really, because ‘wind up’ in the sense of a window is not a dictionary definition of the phrase (at least not intransitively, which the clue would require, but then it’s a poor clue).

      ‘Charade’ probably wasn’t a good description either, though. I’m never quite sure what to call this sort of clue, where there is a definition and a kind of literal translation of the phrase; recent examples from the ST include:

      General disturbance in which nobody gets charged (4,3,3) = FREE FOR ALL

      and

      Perhaps what Moby Dick had was great experience! (1,5,2,1,4) = A WHALE OF A TIME

      I believe the phrase ‘tinchy’, meaning ‘tongue in cheek’, is used elsewhere, but that isn’t always appropriate if there’s no humorous slant to the clue, as in the first example above. Suggestions welcome.

      I have wind-up windows, by the way. And a cassette player.

6. Isn’t there some sort of ban on references to living persons in clues (aside from ER, of course)? I seem to recall, as well as Sting, Stephen Hawking and Richard Drefyus showing up. Absit omen!

   And do hang in there, Amanda. If I can offer my own experience, I’ve been plugging away for the last 3 years, and can definitely see a lot of improvement. Still a long way to go, but it’s fun in any case. There is, of course, the problem of addiction–I should be preparing my lecture notes for tomorrow right now–but still.

   1. The ban on living people is only relevant to the daily Times puzzles. The Sunday Times is under a different “editorship” (in the loosest sense) and has its own rules, or lack of them.

      (Richard Dreyfuss’s name was misspelt in that puzzle, by the way; maybe the risk of such a cock-up is another reason The Times doesn’t allow living people as answers.)

Comments are closed.