Saturday Times 24682 (30th Oct)

Author   linxitPosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
Solving time 15:19, although it was probably easier than that. I only got two of the 14-letter answers early on and wasted a couple of minutes trying to get the other two before looking at the rest of the puzzle. Most of it was very straightforward, with a more than usual number of double definitions and some very simple charades.

Across
1 BISHOP AUCKLAND – BISHOP (see his) + AUCKLAND (former capital of New Zealand) = a town in County Durham.
9 GAUCHERIE – (charge)* around U + I.E.
10 GET TO – G(h)ETTO.
11 INANE – IN AN E.
12 RESERVOIR – (erosive)* between two R’s.
13 LAST POST – double definition, the second a bugle call sounded at military funerals and commemorative events.
15 HOOKAH – sounds like “hooker”, a rugby position in the scrum.
17 BISECT – BIT around SEC.
19 WHITE ANT – WHIT + EAT around (grai)N.
22 OBSTACLES – (tab closes)*
23 SWIFT – double definition.
24 SHIVA – hidden in “GaneSH, I VAnquished”, and father of Ganesh in Indian mythology.
25 MINNESOTA – A(rea) after (one’s)* inside MINT.
26 TICKLED TO DEATH – TICK LED TO DEATH.

Down
1 BIG GIRL’S BLOUSE – double definition, one cryptic. Big Bertha was actually a German gun in WW2. Correction: it was used in WW1. I put in the link but didn’t bother to read it very carefully 🙂 Thanks Jerry
2 SQUEALS – double definition.
3 OCHRE – H(ot) + RE, under 0 + C(old).
4 AIRBRUSH – BRIA(r) reversed over RUSH.
5 CHEESY – double definition, the second as in a grin.
6 LAGER LOUT – REGAL rev + L(iberal) + OUT.
7 NETWORK – (knew to r)*
8 POOR WHITE TRASH – POSH around (rate worth 1)*. I’ve already seen one howl of protest over the use of this derogatory term. To me it’s a good clue in its own right, and in the dictionary.
14 PICKABACK – PICK A BACK. Same as piggyback, but we used to call it chuckyback when I was at school.
16 CHESTNUT – CHEST + NUT
18 SASHIMI – 1 under SASH, over M1.
20 ARIZONA – ZON(e) inside ARIA.
21 FLAMBÉ – LAMB inside F(ir)E.
23 SPEED – SEED around P.

23 comments on “Saturday Times 24682 (30th Oct)”

  1. On the easy side for a Saturday, I thought, I took about the same time as you Linxit (which is quick, for me).
    A small point, Big Bertha is a gun from WW1, not WW2.
    The poor white trash clue is interesting.. it didn’t bother me but it got me to thinking, are there any words in the dictionary that I would find upsetting or offensive, if used in a crossword? I am pretty sure there are – so it is not surprising perhaps that this clue offended some folks. The Times’ regular use of drug culture jargon for example, I find irritating though they seem nowadays to do it less than they used to.
  2. I’m not howling, over-sensitive or politically correct, but if POOR WHITE TRASH is OK by the editor we can presumably look forward to the inclusion of COON SONG, YELLOW PERIL and STREET ARAB in future crosswords.
    1. No, it couldn’t be. The two definitions are “Lancashire so” and “broad”. Even if CHEESE fits Lancashire it makes the rest of the clue nonsense, whereas CHEESY fits both parts.
  4. Definitely a one piece of toast puzzle. I noticed that when submitting it on-line I made a typo and put in “squeaks” instead of “squeals” – I do find it quite difficult to fill in those grids.

    I think the editor is on very dangerous ground with POOR….. and I’m not sure that being a good clue and in the dictionary are sensible criteria. That covers a whole multitude of sins. My feeling is that such plainly derogatory phrases connected to race, religion, sexuality, etc are probably best left in the dictionary. But then I also dislike the very casual attitude that the Times takes to the drug culture.

    1. I agree re 8dn. Actually I also didn’t like seeing 1dn in the Times crossword either.

      48 minutes, with aids to get 4dn so not so easy for me as for others.

  5. This took me 40 minutes, so harder for me than most, and I carelessly put in SPEND for 23 dn. I don’t know what kind of drug I thought it was.
    BISHOP AUCKLAND strikes me as somewhat obscure, particularly for overseas solvers. I’d only heard of it very vaguely.
    1. I can see what you mean about Bishop Auckland, but I would not want The Times crossword to be changed in any way to suit the preferences of overseas solvers. It is what it is. Also, Bishop Auckland is not that obscure. For some, all of Durham is obscure 🙂
      1. Fair point. Culturally this is a British (and where homophones are concerned south-east English) puzzle and the clues reflect that, as they should. However I do sometimes wonder just how many British towns we’re expected to know. I’ve lived here for 90% of my life and ones I haven’t heard of come up regularly. Geography never was my strong suit!
  6. I’m scratching my head trying to think what is offensive about “Big girl’s blouse”

    I’ve seen STREET ARAB in the Times Crossword I am sure. Chambers terms it as offensive, COED does not. COON-SONG is plainly offensive as it involves the use of the word COON. YELLOW PERIL is marked as offensive in COED but merely derog/facet. in Chambers.
    If I was the editor I’d allow them all, including the merely derog. POOR WHITE TRASH, bar COON-SONG. But who would be an editor 🙂

    1. It’s another derogatory term and having two in the same puzzle gives me cause for concern.

      I wouldn’t blink at either in the Private Eye puzzle (in fact I would expect them there) but I would prefer the Times cryptic to have different standards.

      1. It depends on how easily offended you are I suppose: BIG GIRL’S BLOUSE is classed by COED as “informal” and indeed also as such by Chambers. I have never thought of it as a derogatory term and certainly not as offensive.
      2. “I wouldn’t blink at either in the Private Eye puzzle (in fact I would expect them there) but I would prefer the Times cryptic to have different standards.”

        Ah well that of course is a different matter. Surely if something is “offensive” it is just as offensive in PE as in The Times. There are things I would not expect to see in the Times Crossword but if I seaw them there I would be intrigued rather than offended 🙂

  7. One could make a distinction between derogatory terms that refer to groups that have been or are oppressed or discriminated against and terms that don’t. I, for one, wouldn’t feel compelled to raise my voice against, say, ‘limey’ in a cryptic, or ‘honkie’, ‘peckerwood’, or ‘ofay’. (Whereas I was shocked to find ‘welsh’=renege the other day.) Still, the puzzle shouldn’t have had the term in it.
    As an overseas solver twice over–an American living in Japan–I’d like to add my support of jerrywh’s comment; I’d hate to see the puzzles homogenized. Cricket terms, rhyming slang, Bishop Auckland, bring ’em on.
    1. “(Whereas I was shocked to find ‘welsh’=renege the other day.) Still, the puzzle shouldn’t have had the term in it.”

      Are you serious??

      1. Am I serious about what? 1)That ‘welsh’ shocked me? Or 2)that ‘poor white trash’ shouldn’t have been used? Yes in both cases, actually. 1) I wouldn’t dream of using–and more to the point, wouldn’t dream that the Times would use– ‘jew down’ or ‘Indian giver’ or ‘gyp’; why ‘welsh’? 2) It’s all been said.
  9. 55 minutes with two mistakes, ‘cheese’ for CHEESY and ‘joakah’ (!) for ‘hookah’. Have just completed this week’s after nearly 2.5 hours – certainly tougher.

    Re ‘poor white trash’, if a similar expession concerning black people was considered okay for inclusion, then I’d be okay with it. Otherwise, I dislike the inference that white folk (most setters, editors and solvers of the Times crossword are white, no?) stand so far above things that they may be harshly critical of their own kind, while demanding protection for lesser ‘races’ – an attitude I detest.

    Which comes to the same thing as saying these phrases shouldn’t be used.

    1. How do you know similar expressions for black people would not be acceptable?? Offensive phrases using racist terms such as COON or worse would not be allowed. POOR WHITE TRASH is, I believe, a sociological term and I will stick my neck out and say that I don’t believe it is derogatory. The phrase exists, is not, moreover, as far as I can see, marked as “derog” in the dictionary (not that that alone I suspect is an automatic disqualifier) and that, dare I say is the reason you have seen it in the Times Crossword, rather than on account of the perverse reasoning you postulate. However, being neither the editor not the setter of the puzzle I am aware that i may be speaking out of turn.
      1. Indeed it is marked as “usually derogatory” in Chambers. The entry goes on to say “poor, improvident and incompetent white people.. often called by the blacks poor white trash.” Somehow that doesn’t sound like a term of affection!
        If it is any consolation I also disagree with Ulaca’s inference. My own inference would be that you can say whatever you like about white people and get away with it because they are unable to complain about it, not being an oppressed minority. Just as you can apparently say things about men in general that would be deemed unacceptable if you said them about women, because even though men are an oppressed minority, they are not seen as such.

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