Quick Cryptic 67 by Vista

23 comments on “Quick Cryptic 67 by Vista”

1. I made a bit of a horlicks of this, especially my last in LINE, where I was too fixated on a word meaning ‘nothing’. Notwithstanding my own struggles, I thought this was quite a stiff test, so apprentice solvers should not be put off if they could only enter a few, half a grid, etc. I know it’s a constant refrain of mine, but since it’s once again true (for me), I’ll repeat it: pound for pound, this is little easier than the main crossword (where the main difficulty today lies in the arcanity of some of the vocab, not in the clueing).

   Thanks, Chris, for a very good blog (and incidentally for explaining MAGNOLIA, where I was wondering if they really had to grow in a bower). Two minor observations: at 19a, as you currently word your explanation, it might appear that ‘Iraqi’ can only relate to persons. At 16d, you need to capitalise A (an example of a word in the clue being lifted for use in the definition, which you refer to elsewhere).

   Edited at 2014-06-10 01:39 am (UTC)

   1. Thank-you. Corrections made. As for the difficulty of the Quick crossword generally, I seem to remember the previous editor being quoted as saying that he couldn’t tell beforehand which crosswords would be found easy or difficult. This would back up the case that the Quick clues are no different from the main. To counter that argument, though, we do know that Monday 15x15s are generally the easier one of the week.
2. 17 minutes and I’m comforted that the two experienced solvers represented so far took about as long as I did over this tricky little puzzle. Nothing more to say other than we have a new setter in Vista. Off to lick my wounds now and recover from my ordeal with today’s 15×15.

   Edited at 2014-06-10 01:54 am (UTC)

3. 9:50; I was getting panicky midway, as things were not at all straightforward, and I threw in MAGNOLIA (LOI) purely from checkers. I also didn’t bother to parse 12d, given the enumeration. Took me forever to see VIVA; I was taking ‘starts off’ as meaning the initial letters (of what?) were missing. It also took me a while to see that 3d was an anagram (didn’t help that I didn’t know the term DANGER MONEY).
4. About 30 minutes. Last one in TASTING which was a guess. Liked MARGE.

   Problem I find with the biggie is getting a toehold. Without some checkers I struggle with a lot of the clues.

5. Just under 5 minutes, which is about average for me for these I think.
   My solving times have improved significantly over the last few years since I discovered this blog, and the biggest improvement has definitely been in the trickier puzzles. I noticed a while ago that the times of the most experienced solvers don’t vary a huge amount, whereas some puzzles would take me over an hour even after I had broken the ten-minute barrier. In relative terms perhaps this is one of those puzzles.
   Incidentally Chris I don’t think it’s generally true that ‘sometimes words in clues are used for both wordplay and definition’. This sort of double duty is, as I understand it, a no-no in the Times, so the definition in 21ac has to be ‘from part of the Middle East’.
   1. I agree that generally it’s not true – but sometimes I think I’ve encountered words doing double duty – perhaps though this is just my wilder imaginings when grappling with some tough clues – comment taken out so it doesn’t cause confusion. Thanks.
      1. I’ve had the same experience (encountering double duty) but usually when I come here I find that I had just misunderstood the clue!
6. A group of about 8 of us took up the quick crossword as we could never do the hard one. Initially we all started to get better but lately have found the puzzles to be getting harder, to the point they seem no different than the main one. It is great for all those great crossword solvers who do the puzzles in 10 minutes and I am sure very easy for them. But all of us have decided there is no point or enjoyment in the direction the quick cryptic is going. Make up your minds either design a puzzle that is reasonably solvable, or scrap it and stick to the hard one. The puzzle today by vista is another example of a puzzle that is too hard. Probably our last attempt. Really disappointed in not havering a QUICK CRYPTIC.
   1. Of course it’s a question of how much one wants to do these things in the first place–I’m an addict now–but as someone who absolutely stank when I started doing these 6 years ago (it took a couple of years before I even considered doing them online), I’d urge you guys to hang in a bit longer. You will get better.
   2. I agree; I’m a new solver too and in the last few days I’ve found these puzzles offputting in their complexity. I get annoyed when most of the posters here are reporting their solving times and making comments about the difficulty of some of the clues. If it’s any consolation to other newbies I’ve only managed to solve one of the 67 puzzles to date and that was slow, so please keep it as it was intended; a quick (and easy) crytic puzzle for newcomers. I still enjoy pitting my wits aginst the harder puzzles elsewhere in the paper but I can only manage one or two clues there unlike here where I can usually get about half or more within half an hour or so.
   3. I agree with you. I understood that the Quick Cryptic was to bridge the gap between concise and cryptic. Hence my initial comment above – yesterday’s ‘hard one’ – the 15×15 took me the same time to complete as today’s ‘easy one’ so I’m not sure what the editor’s process is for choosing clues.
      Just in case there is any doubt, here at the Times for The Times site, we solve and discuss – and try our best to help and encourage. We are not part of the actual Times newspaper who set the things, just a (very nice) bunch of interested volunteers.
      So, moving on – I completely agree with Kevin’s comment here – the longer you hang in the more you ‘get’ what the setters are doing and the more fun you have. It took me years in a different lifetime commuting in London and struggling until I got to the office where there was an expert who helped me improve. Nowadays I still struggle with the 15×15 and look with awe at the times achieved by the usual suspects – but I do have the occasional, exceptional day like yesterday.
7. 6 mins, and I agree that this was another one on the tricky side. I wonder if this is coincidence or whether the editor has asked the setters to slowly increase the difficulty level. DECLARATION was my LOI when I finally saw which meaning of “profession” was being referred to.
8. This was a particularly tricky quickie, I thought. Managed to wrestle my way through it in around 30 minutes.

   No arcane GK or specialist vocabulary, but a number of clues that took a lot of puzzling out. Unusual usages (e.g. ARRAYED, TASTING and DECLARATION) would have left me totally flummoxed around 6 months ago before I started learning the craft thanks to this site. And several others (STADIA, PREVAIL, ABU DHABI) were quite complex wordplay (although – as ever – obvious once the penny has dropped). These were certainly on a par with clues in the main crossword.

   And so the debate about the appropriate degree of difficulty for the Quickie continues. This is, I fear, somewhat intractable. A couple of observations…

   The main Times crossword is widely regarded as a significant challenge. If you can do it, you are a serious player (think single digit golf handicap by analogy).

   If the Quickie is intended to be a training ground for the main Times crossword, it has to be reasonably challenging. Otherwise, people could knock over the Quickie but get nowhere with the main puzzle – in which case it would have failed in its objective of preparing you for the step up.

   The alternative would be for the Quickie to be simply an entertainment form in its own right (nothing wrong with that) but with no intent to take people to the point where they are prepared for the main crossword – in which case it could be a lot easier.

   Policy decision time for the editor, I guess.

9. Very good discussion today, I thought, with the Editor’s comment at the end. I can sympathise with those who find the posting of times to be a little off-putting; I did at first, but I came to see them as a target to aim at. 12years ago when I first came to the Times’ cryptic it would take me all week to do one puzzle -usually the prize puzzle on a Saturday – and even then I often DNF. Now I complete the cryptic every day and only very very rarely do I fail to finish. my mean solving time is a tad under an hour.
   I do agree, though, with those who think that the standard of clueing in today’s Quickie is of the same level as the main cryptic. I thought the same of yesterday’s as well. So to Anonymous may I add another “stick at it” comment and also a request for you to join the gang with a screen name and image!
   15 mins for today as against 16 mins for yesterday’s.
   1. Agree , Martin ; stick at it. I am often put off by long clues but if you try and look for the definition required rather than parsing it does become a bit easier ( the great Magoo’s advice ! )
10. There is no “policy” for the Quick Cryptics other than that they be generally on the easy side,
    However with a large team of setters uniform ease is never going to be possible, and indeed would probably be dull and therefore inadvisable.
    There is certainly no strategy for them to get gradually harder.

    As I said in the article that accompanied the first back in March, these are “cryptic” puzzles after all – and there are bound to be days when the main puzzle might seem easier. And if there are a few more difficult ones concentrated together that is just an unfortunate coincidence.

11. Had managed to solve three on the trot but have failed to finish without help on the last couple.
    The strangest thing is putting it down completely stuck and picking it up a few hours later and clues just falling into place. Part of it must just be accessing the right part of the brain.
    I enjoy clues like 10, where it seems impossible to get round profession meaning anything other than career. I was hopelessly trying to jam in doctoral…something.
12. Like the other beginners I found this difficult especially the short words with no consonants which I couldn’t get at all:
    22 ac I_E_ and 5ac _I_E
    I also could not get TASTING even though my phone app tells me that there are only 7 words for T_S_ING. Does CHEAT = STING???
    However the blogs are really useful especially when they explain the traditional conventions eg “I” for current. I was even inspired to try a couple of the big cryptics but could only get a few of these clues so I think they are significantly more difficult.
    1. If you do try a big cryptic – go for early in week. They are up and down but Monday is often easier. As for sting=cheat this is the definition of sting from Chambers online: 6 slang a trick, swindle or robbery.
    2. Clues of the type you mention are known to be paticularly tricky. The great Tony Sever – Times champion way back when – has a word for the feeling he gets when confronted by clues where the checked letters consist only of vowels – ‘vocalophobia’!
13. Nice to hear from The Editor *bows in homage* and it’s great to hear that there’s no general policy for the Quick Cryptics to get increasingly hard. It still sounds a bit mad to me though that the editor says there are bound to be days when the main puzzle might seem easier. I don’t see the point of printing two middlingly hard puzzles — but then they also do that with the SuDoku sometimes.

    Today’s was definitely too hard for me and I’ve come to the blog in search of answers before the day is out because I know I’m beat. As my mother would say, I’d never have finished that puzzle in a month of Pig’s Pudding!

14. This blog is so encouraging. I’m also a newbie who has only finished one. I found today’s very hard but the delight I when I finally see some answers keeps me going and the blogs help enormously. As ever, thank you!

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