Quick Cryptic 1084 by Wurm

36 comments on “Quick Cryptic 1084 by Wurm”

1. Struggle again, can’t remember where. Wittgenstein brings to mind the poem in dactyls, one of a set that appeared in the journal Mind years ago:
   Higgledy Piggledy
   Ludwig J. Wittgenstein
   Cautioned the Junge with
   Whom he had erred,
   “Don’t spill the beans to that
   Psychohistorian
   W.W.
   Bartley III.” 9:11.

   Edited at 2018-05-04 06:41 am (UTC)

2. I enjoyed this too, finishing in about an average time. I liked THEATRE but also MAGOG, who has some hills in Cambridgeshire(!) named after him and the philosopher who, according to the teachings of the University of Woolamaloo, was a beery swine.

   Edited at 2018-05-04 06:23 am (UTC)

3. Another on the harder side for a QC which delayed me for 15 minutes. DENEB was as unknown to me today as when it last appeared in a 15×15 in 2010, but then as now I arrived at it from wordplay.

   Wurm is, I think, the newest of our occasional setters. He has been with us since 21st June last year but has set only 7 puzzles to date.

4. Not only quite tough (just within three Kevins) but to me generally joyless and witless. I know the convention here is generally to be positive about the puzzles but I thought that was pants.

   One example: DENEB. (a) This is far too obscure for a QC. (b) To compensate, the setter then seems to have decided to make the clue really simple, giving it away by using “bend up” which even I could see indicated “DNEB”. There’s only one place that you can fit “E for English” into DNEB, so you arrive quickly at DENEB. (c) You then look at DENEB and think “Well that can’t possibly be a word, I must have got that wrong”. So then you waste a lot of time re-examining the clue, trying to see where you went wrong. (d) In the end you look up DENEB in your Concise Oxford – it isn’t there. Eventually you turn to Google and get the answer, but you feel dirty for having used Google and annoyed that the setter drove you to it.

   I could pick other nits but CBA, as my children would say.

   Give me the Hurley bird over the Wurm any day; thank goodness (s)he is only an occasional setter.

   Grumpy Templar

   1. PS – thank you for the poem, Kevin!

      Templar

      1. About DENEB: Maybe too arcane for a Quicky, BUT: One of the lessons that needs to be learned from these puzzles is precisely to exercise the kind of reasoning you succinctly describe. 1) It has to be DNEB with E inside; 2) there’s only one place to put the E; ergo (by modus ponens) 3) the solution is DENEB. ( 4) I’ve never heard of DENEB; well 5) hard cheese, I’m not going to argue with deductive logic.) As Sherlock Holmes said–and as everyone and his brother has quoted–once you discard the impossibilities like DEENB, the improbable is your solution.
         I didn’t realize that double dactyls were invented years before ‘Mind’ printed some (I think there was a contest, where the 2d line had to be the name of a philosopher): here’s another:
         Higgledy Piggledy
         Herr Rektor Heidegger
         Cautioned his students “To
         Being be true,
         Lest you should fall into
         Inauthenticity.
         This I believe — and
         The Führer does too.”
   2. Whilst sharing with your concerns about the appearance of ‘Deneb’ in a QC, it may be worth noting that as it’s a ‘proper noun’ the Concise Oxford would be unlikely to list it. That’s one of the ways it manages to remain concise. The Oxford Dictionary Online is more comprehensive and you will find Deneb listed if you search for it there: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/

      Edited at 2018-05-04 09:40 am (UTC)

      1. Thanks, Jack. Being an old buffer I use paper dictionaries … as soon as I look something up online to solve a QC I feel I’ve cheated, somehow. I accept that this is not entirely rational!

         Templar

         1. I tend to prefer paper dictionaries too but I use the online ones for ease of reference when I’m preparing blogs and commenting here. Of the paper dictionaries I like Collins the best because it’s clearly laid out with entries always where I expect to find them (unlike Chambers which hides so much in the small print) and Collins also includes many geographical and biographical entries (such as Deneb).
   3. Ha Ha, couldn’t agree more. I haven’t biffed so many for a while. This was anything but quick – took me 115:34. I had felt I was ready to graduate to the Times Cryptic but thanks to Wurm that feeling has evaporated. Wonder if there is some science the setters can use to strike a balance for the quickies. Guess the science may make it less enjoyable then.

      SRT

5. DNF as 8 dn WITTGENSTEIN unknown and couldn’t solve from the wordplay. MAGOG and DENEB also unknown. Too obscure for me or perhaps I’m just not on the same wavelength as Wurm. Thanks anyway as I have increased my general knowledge – always useful at the pub quiz night.
   1. Sorry did not realise I posted as anonymous.
6. Well that wrecked my run of good times. From my perspective this week has been three nice easy puzzles bookended by two stinkers! I’m a bit like Templar, struggling to find something positive to say today!
7. …some wouldn’t like this. Didn’t read the Tractatus, couldn’t find Cygnus even with a star atlas?

   Even so, I still came in at 14:14, but I had trouble with ‘meatballs’, being sure it would be some obscure dish I’d never heard of.

8. That was a real struggle. First one in was 12ac, and I knew then that this was going to be quirky, but goodness me that was hard. Did exactly the same as Templar with 19d, but by that stage was just happy with Google confirming Deneb was indeed a star. Crawled over the line, well north of the hour mark. Invariant
9. That’s 3 this week that have not in any way be aimed at new solvers. When the majority of puzzles in a week are too hard there is something wrong. Personally i am almost completely turned off the not quick cryptic. If the editors are serious about encouraging new people they should address this. It is not good enough to say this is training for the harder cryptic. I agree with the writer who said today’s puzzle was joyless.

   I will not give the times much longer if this is the trend as it is not even a learning exercise.

10. This was tough. I spent 30 minutes on my first session and when I returned I put my weekend solver’s hat on and managed to finish it eventually. LOI was Glimpse after Magog.
    Since starting to do these puzzles I have learnt Deneb which went in quickly and Magog I’ve seen before in puzzles, and near Cambridge.
    There was lots of stuff in here which the beginner needs to acquire, so whilst it might be frustrating initially ,practice does pay off e.g. 1d -very hard for a beginner, I think.
    David
11. Found yesterday’s 15×15 easier than this!
    1. Couldn’t agree less. Thought yesterday’s 15×15 was absurdly difficult, while for me this was relatively straightforward, pretty much average time! Only delayed by biffing Ruandan (alternative spelling of Rwandan) for 14d which made 13a impossible. No unknown words for me, which I suppose shows that if you are on the same wavelength as the setter they are all simple, if not then very hard.
       Paulw
12. 4 magog – not biblical of a pair gog and magogconnected with Rome I think David Cawte
13. Might be obscure but is one of the stars in the “Summer triangle”. Easy to spot in the night sky and a timely reminder from Wurm that better weather is upon us. Judging by some of the comments today, a little bit of sunshine in some lives in clearly needed!
14. After a slow start I hit the right wavelength and although I still found some of the clues tricky I solved it reasonably steadily, finishing with 8d and 10a in 21.11. Unlike others I really enjoyed this despite the fact that I had to trust the wordplay for a number of the answers (something that always makes me nervous). COD 7d
15. We found this on the hard side, taking two goes to complete it. However, the word play seemed very fair and led to answers even if they were not known. We agree with previous comment that there is a lot to learn from it. Surprised at the grumbles, too easy puzzles are worse than the harder variety. Thanks to Wurm and the blog which is always appreciated, and instructive. Elin & Ian.
16. Came to this with aching bones after a golf outing with the pub Society. Beautiful day to be out and about in the County Durham countryside with the North Sea glinting in the near distance. I had to trust the wordplay for MAGOG, but the rest was known to this 15×15 regular and the puzzle was completed in 10:38. I enjoyed it anyway. Liked RIGHT AWAY and SODS LAW. Thanks Wurm and Curarist.
17. After a couple of years, I still can’t count myself as expert at this game – despite Wednesday and Thursday being almost write-ins. I did find this one tricky in places but was able to fight my way through after a slow start. Made an error with 19a despite trawling the alphabet for the middle letter – I just didn’t see duel and opted to doe(s) as an insufficiently good guess. I haven’t looked at Monday’s or Tuesday’s yet but it sounds as if one will be a stinker….. FOI 5a LOI 10a COD 15a. I have realised that one does get to recognise a setter’s style and perhaps the infrequency of Wurm’s puzzles partly explains why some found it too much of a struggle – maybe it was just an unfamiliar feel? As usual, a good blog does help (thanks!) and for that matter so does an unfamiliar style. No complaints here from one of the late in the day slow-coach solvers.
18. Can see why devotees of the main puzzle wouldn’t like this – bit too challenging in terms of general knowledge. As a newbie I found it tough but doable
19. As a relative beginner I totally failed this ” quick cryptic” . The first time since I started doing these. My normal time is about 20 minutes (cue laughter), but I admit I gave up on this one. I found the clues very obscure , so decided 24 hours later to check this blog and see what you thought about this. I had actually managed to guess a few answers, but did not put the answers in since they led me nowhere.
20. I agree with the contributor who thought it joyless and unreasonable. Several answers are too obscure for a ‘quick’, and some clueing is questionable. For example, I don’t think ‘saw’ and ‘truism’ are synonymous. And I’m less than happy with ‘spread’ as an anagram indicator. In fact, I think the clue for 13a is less than fair.
    I also agree with the contributor who makes the point that the QC is supposed to be either easy (quick) or suitable for the less accomplished solver. This horrible puzzle met neither of those criteria.
21. Late to this but agree with those who found this not a lot a fun, so much so that I was compelled to post! Have probably been a qc regular for 9 months or so, and this was my worst for a long long time. Had to look up 6(!), compared to nearly always being able to complete them nowadays.

    Mighty

22. Further
23. Further to mine above (#27) , none of my three main dictionaries define meatball as ‘spiced’. The dictionaries referred to are Chambers, Collins, and the Oxford Reference (based on the Concise). I call that sloppy clueing.
24. Not really enjoyable.

    Magog? that well known son of Japheth, and no mention in wiki of being a giant!

    Witgenstein & Glimpse also poor clues.

25. Glad to see ‘anonymous’ allowed to run rampant unchecked in the blog, among whose comments none were positive. Allow me then, to go against the grain: I thought this great!
    1. 17 anonymous comments actually, all negative. I’d say Wurm, and the site, has been well and truly trolled.
26. I’m afraid I’m with the moaners on this. Found it very hard and had to deploy all the ‘tools’ in my armoury to finish.

    Had no problems with ‘meatballs’ (FOI, just leaped out at me). And deneb and magog are familiar – but I had to come to the blog to find out why some of the others that I filled in from crossers (Wittgenstien, truism, etc), were actually correct.

    Maybe the fact that I’ve been away for most of April has put my QC brain back a fair bit… Ho hum…

    Edited at 2018-05-06 05:14 pm (UTC)

27. Will someone please tell me why “truism” and “saw” are synonyms?

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