Times Quick Cryptic No 1808 by Alfie

Author   rolytolyPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
A lovely puzzle today from Alfie with lots of inventive clues, pitched a bit towards the harder end: I was 9 minutes yesterday and 11 today, done straight after. So this is Alfie’s 11th puzzle (aka Noel), his previous being in September last year, and they’ve all had a devious alphabetical theme (thanks to jackkt and johninterred for their helpful info in that and earlier puzzles). And so there appears to be today, although I’m not sure I’ve fully worked it out. (See below for what I did manage, if you wish to pause and have a look yourself.) Many thanks to Alfie!

Across
1 Girl discovered in brothel, enamoured (6)
HELENA – “discovered in” brotHEL ENAmoured
4 What church often has to hope (6)
ASPIRE – and a church often has A SPIRE
8 Vehicle from CBI man I rent? (7)
MINICAB – anagram (rent = torn apart) of CBI MAN I
10 Fire close to club lounge (5)
BLAZE – B (“close to” cluB) LAZE (lounge)
11 At first, Sal’s pretty eyelashes cutely flutter (4)
SPEC – “at first” Sal’s Pretty Eyelashes Cutely
12 Hitting Clonmel on vacation before trip (8)
CLOUTING – CL (ClonmeL “on vacation”) OUTING (trip)
14 Midday air aroused farmworker (9)
DAIRYMAID – anagram (aroused) of MIDDAY AIR
18 Bury requirement not to finish off prisoner (8)
INTERNEE – INTER (bury) NEEd (requirement, not finishing off)
20 Different? Spain’s the same on the outside (4)
ELSE – EL (Spain’s “the”) SE (SamE “on the outside”). I suppose as in somewhere else/different.
22 One arrested by the force? (5)
THIEF – &lit (see glossary): I (one) arrested by THE F(orce). The entire clue is both wordplay and a definition.
23 An eye, maybe, for a newspaper story? (7)
FEATURE – double definition, a feature being any part of the face.
24 Eccentric little woman bringing spice (6)
NUTMEG – NUT (eccentric) MEG (little woman – as in short for Margaret)
25 King George I, the day before becoming upset (6)
GRIEVE – GR I (King George I) EVE (the day before)

Down
1 Scotsman possibly leaving note in mess (6)
HAMISH – MI (note – do, re, mi, etc., variously spelt for the setter’s convenience) in HASH (mess)
2 Oil producer’s lies end badly (7)
LINSEED – anagram (badly) of LIES END. For the surface reading, the  ‘s is possessive – the lies of the oil producer; for the cryptic, read it as “oil producer IS (i.e. equals) lies end badly”.
3 Appropriate police station form (4)
NICK – triple definition: steal; copshop; condition.
5 Bushman close to you, moving below us? (8)
SUBHUMAN – anagram (moving) of BUSHMAN and U (“close to” yoU)
6 Arab lipread quip, missing odd bits (5)
IRAQI – L I p R e A d  Q u I p, “missing odd bits”
7 Go when green has changed? Start off yes (6)
ENERGY – anagram (has changed) of GREEN, Y (“start off” Yes)
9 This is certainly cow meat (5-4)
BULLY-BEEF – to BULLY = to cow, BEEF (meat). Strange clue, that I think works best as a cryptic definition, with a pun on “cow” (being both bully and animal). I’m open to a better suggestion. The answer was also news to me, bully beef being another term for corned/boiled/pickled beef.
13 Weapon to reveal with search (3,5)
AIR RIFLE – AIR (reveal) with RIFLE (search). LOI, as I was slow seeing the reveal bit for some reason.
15 Perhaps stop scratching sole due for mending (7)
DELOUSE – anagram (for mending) of SOLE DUE
16 Outfit — number for a future queen (6)
KITTEN – KIT (outfit) TEN (number). A queen being an adult female cat.
17 Go back from park and garden, briefly (6)
RECEDE – REC[reation ground] (park) and EDEn (garden, “briefly”)
19 Idiot handling small, unexpected development (5)
TWIST – TWIT (idiot) handling S(mall)
21 Loud tune is not bad (4)
FAIR – F[orte] (loud) AIR (tune)


Ok, so we have the last and first letters of each row of the across answers in the grid being A-A, B-B, and so on down to G-G in the bottom row… and that’s about it, as far as I can see, apart from a similar double H in Hamish and double I in Iraqi. I look forward to sharper eyes enlightening me further!

84 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1808 by Alfie”

  1. I can’t remember if anything in particular slowed me down, but I was on the sluggish side. Meg is one of the sisters in “Little Women”. 7:20.
  2. Bully beef was often cow meat and was otherwise known as Fray Bentos named after a port in Argentina. Fray Bentos corned beef was supplied to the troops in World War I. Its popularity was such that the term “Fray Bentos” was used as slang by soldiers to mean “good”.
    1. Oooh, millions of Uruguayans will be upset! The eponymous Fray Bentos is in Uruguay not Argentina. But you are right that their beef (when done properly, on a wood barbecue not tinned) is magnificent. Uruguayans insist that their beef is better than Argentina’s — and so is their wine. And having been lucky enough to travel in both countries, I would agree on both counts.

      Cedric

    2. Also the source of a sizeable typhoid outbreak in 1964 in Aberdeen which had contaminated a butcher’s meat slicing machine. More than 500 local residents affected and 3 died. A positive outcome was improved public health measures. I contracted para typhoid as a child, contracted from a hot dog bought at a travelling fair. I have never eaten another.
  3. 10 minutes. When I saw Alfie was the setter I suspected there may be something hidden here and I spotted the A-G thing going on as mentioned by Roly. I couldn’t find anything else apart from noticing that in the 9-letter words intersecting in the middle of the grid we have LL balancing EE in the Down word and AI balancing AI in the Across one, but this is probably coincidental. Perhaps Alfie will drop by and enlighten us if we are all missing something more.
    1. Chambers has spec defined as ‘An informal shortening of speculation’ and a ‘flutter’ is a bet, usually on the horses.
      Brian

      Edited at 2021-02-11 08:21 am (UTC)

  5. ‘Spec’ = ‘flutter’?
    ‘Nick = ‘police station’?
    ‘Bully beef’ = ‘corned beef’?
    ‘Rec’ = ‘park’?

    Given it’s a British newspaper I can’t object to the use of British slang, but when many of the clues rely on knowledge of such terms it’s a joyless slog for me. DNF.

    Ah well. Won’t stop me trying again on Monday!

    WB

    1. “Nick” is a common term for police station, particularly in London and in the South. In fact many police officers themselves refer to the police station as “The Nick”.

      “I’m going back to the Nick to complete my report.”

      1. So many people have queried flutter/SPEC it’s hard to know where to place this to be seen by most:

        SOED has:

        flutter – A small bet or speculation. slang. L19.

        I think it has already been established beyond doubt that SPEC is a valid abbreviation of speculation.

  6. Warning: pedantry ahead. Fray Bentos is very near Argentina but it’s a rather nondescript town in Uruguay.

    Cardorojo

  7. Lots of fun as usual from Alfie and, alerted by the name, I found the double letters. Some excellent clues. I enjoyed the triple definition for NICK, the &lit THIEF and the witty ASPIRE. Thanks Alfie and Rolytoly. 6:17.
  8. Half accessible and half really hard — almost as if two different people had split the job. Seven on the first pass of acrosses and then a good show on the downs before standstill and struggling to the end with pen and paper out.

    Edited at 2021-02-11 08:25 am (UTC)

  9. An excellent, if difficult puzzle and I was happy to finish in 30 minutes, ten over my target. My main hold-ups were the anagrams, and as usual the clever bits on the grid passed me by.
    UK ‘Corned beef’ is totally different to US ‘corned beef’, which is known as ‘salt beef’ over here.
    Thanks to Alfie for an enjoyable puzzle and to Rolytoly for the explanations.
    Brian
  10. 13:08, with LOI ASPIRE, which also is my COD.

    I did not really see the Triple Def of NICK, but was a bit wary of NICE (=appropriate). BLAZE was another late one, with C=Club look very tempting, the “close to” device is something I always miss.

    NHO Queen for Adult Cat

    9A BULLY BEEF didn’t really work for me, does “This is certianly”=BULLY, as in “bully for you”? Not sure about Bully=Cow, they don’t seem synonymous to me. Open to persuasion.

    1. I saw it simply in terms of someone who is bullied being cowed. John

      Edited at 2021-02-11 08:52 am (UTC)

  11. … as the NW and SE corners were almost write-ins but the NE and SW slowed me up considerably, for a 13 minute solve in the end. At least that cements my membership of the newly christened MCC, which is pleasing given that I’m unlikely to ever get into the other MCC, not having been put down for it 20 years before I was born.

    Not entirely sure why the NE and SW slowed me down so much, though my LOI 16D Kitten was not a meaning of Queen that I knew. Otherwise all parsed, though I only spotted the alphabet Nina after completing the puzzle so it was not the aid it might have otherwise been for me.

    Many thanks to Roly for the blog
    Cedric

  12. An excellent, if quirky, puzzle. As others found, the top half went in very quickly but the bottom half was pretty hard. It needed more lateral thinking than usual, I thought, even though all was fair, in retrospect. I was very pleased to be only a few seconds over my target today and only a few more seconds over 2K which makes a change. I hesitated over NICK until the penny dropped and nho Queen as a mature female cat. I think NUTMEG was my COD. All the double letter stuff passed me by completely. Thanks to Alfie and Roly. John M.

    Edited at 2021-02-11 08:54 am (UTC)

  13. Hopped about like a scalded cat (no offence intended to animal lovers) before giving up the ghost (no offence intended to paranormal devotees) at 17D and totally missed the direction, desperately determined to put in a P and failed to think of Eden. Definitely will remember in future.
    Thanks Rolly and Alfie for a puzzle that was enjoyed both during and after.
  14. No real hold ups today, although I never fully understood what was going on with either SPEC or BULLY BEEF and I waited until I had all the checkers before writing in the latter. The queen/cat thing is something I’ve only learnt since starting cryptics and it finally seems to be lodging in the memory banks which helped with LOI Kitten. Finished in 9.24, completely oblivious to any theme (as usual).
    Thanks to Roly and Alfie
  15. Half done today, with some clues I’d never have worked out.

    I don’t suppose I’d remember the answers to some of them in future either, this was definitely on the very difficult range for me — KITTEN, RECEDE.

    I thought NICK very clever.

    Diana

  16. An interrupted half hour. I had to keep dipping in and out while setting the kids up for live lessons this morning, and maybe that didn’t help, but I was definitely nowhere near Alfie’s wavelength either for some reason.

    Enjoyed ASPIRE and SUBHUMAN.

    Two minor quibbles, similar to others:

    – The clue for SPEC is pretty tenuous isn’t it? (Spec>Speculation>Gamble>Flutter) But I suppose it was easy enough to solve so I shouldn’t complain.

    – I’m not sure the clue for BULLY BEEF quite works either, though again I got the right answer so it must work on some level.

    Hopefully back on the right wavelength tomorrow. Thanks Alfie and Roly.

  17. When I saw Alfie as the setter, I thought there might be something hidden but that awareness was of no help; I was looking for a pangram in the end when I got stuck.
    FOI was MINICAB and then I made good progress but got stuck on ELSE, RECEDE and LOI NUTMEG where I nearly went for NUTTER. I must have spent 6/7 minutes on my last three; time was 18:18.
    Knew BULLY BEEF but could not see how the cryptic worked. Lots of clever stuff in here. My favourite was NICK.
    David
  18. I have to count this as a DNF after staring at a mostly blank bottom half of the grid as I passed my target time of 15 minutes. I finally biffed AIR RIFLE, which opened up some of the virgin territory, but just couldn’t see INTERNEE until I resorted to an aid, hence DNF. For the last 10 minutes working in the south, it felt like wrangling every answer was like pulling teeth! Definitely missed the MCC today, and joined the SCC. Glad it was you blogging Roly, and not me! I did see the double letter theme in the acrosses though.
    1. If you use an aid you count it as a DNF?

      I am a bit more lenient with myself on this, in that I allow myself 3 “lives” to use an aid to count towards completion.

      One day, when I am better at the QC, I will try my best not to resort to using aids.

      1. You’ve asked this before and the more experienced here generally have said it’s a DNF. At least a ‘technical DNF’. I see no reason why you shouldn’t give yourself 3 lives, as you put it, as you still feel you are learning the craft/trade. Several contributors will admit to using aids (I might do so too if I need verification, or maybe inspiration) without conceding it a DNF. I think it depends on how purist you want to be. If I had used a spelling aid yesterday I might have found Nun where I had too promptly entered Eve and so stymied myself… Just enjoy the ride!
  19. Not on wavelength at all. I had no idea what was going on with BULLY BEEF and I didn’t understand SPEC = flutter or NICK = form. I wasn’t pleased with having two names at 1a and 1d even though the first was easy to spot. My LOI was SUBHUMAN where I was trying to juggle the letters of below us and u. Eventually I realized that I was missing an a and looked at the other end of the clue. Certainly not my finest solve and well outside my target in 16 minutes.

  20. FOI: 1a HELENA
    LOI: 13d AIR RIFLE

    Time to Complete: DNF

    Clues Answered Correctly without aids: 15

    Clues Answered with Aids (3 lives): 3 (18a, 23a, 13d)

    Clues Unanswered: 8 (20a, 22a, 24a, 25a, 16d, 17d, 19d, 21d)

    Wrong Answers: Nil

    Total Correctly Answered (incl. aids): 18/26

    Aids Used: Chambers

    Started off very well, completing the NW corner within a few minutes. Then as time progressed I managed to complete north of the equator, so to speak.

    21d – FAIR. This is one of the clues I was not able to answer. Looking at the answer and explanation here, I can see that FORTE is in Chambers under LOUD. However, how on earth was I expected to know to take the first letter only from FORTE? I cannot see any indicator in the clue for doing this. Sometimes it seems to me that the setter will use a word and expect you to know to take only the first letter from it. So I looked up FORTE itself in Chambers, and that does indeed show “F” as being an accepted abbreviation. My question is, can a setter use any word they desire and expect me to know to take the first letter only (without an indicator of such)? Is it a cop out on the setter’s behalf that they cannot think of a suitable clue for that word, and so just expect me to take the first letter?

    11a – SPEC. I cannot see how Spec = flutter. It appears neither in Bradford’s or Chambers. Yes, I see that the clue contained the word eyelashes, which can be fluttered. But the definition in this clue is FLUTTER. How does SPEC relate to flutter?

    So, a DNF for me. Some clues had me perplexed in that I had no idea what the setter was trying to put across. However, it was an enjoyable one, and the first of Alfie’s that I have attempted.

      1. Ah, I was not aware of that. If my 13-year-old nephew was here he’d probably have pointed that out to me. He’s extremely gifted musically.

        Thanks for the helpful information!

    2. Hi poison_wyvern

      I’m afraid it just helps if you happen to have at least a little experience in all the areas that commonly come up in crosswords. As the anonymous contributor said, F and P are abbreviations used on musical scores (although they are written lower case). Have a look through some sheet music some time and you will probably see them. But if you have done even a little bit of Music in your time (as I have) then they are already part of your vocabulary without having to learn them.

      For me it’s the same thing with the chemical elements. I studied Chemistry so chemical symbols come naturally to me. I also studied Law, so legal terminology is also second nature (although every now and then a Latin tag still comes up that I haven’t heard of`). Also Cricket. That comes up a lot and even though I only had slight involvement with it at school I have off and on been an enthusiastic spectator when time has allowed.

      But whenever birds or plants come up my knowledge is very scant indeed although I do find that doing crosswords has been very educational in those fields. I certainly know a lot more horticulture and ornithology now than when I first started!

      So look at crosswords as a general education as well as a pastime. You now know something about Music that you didn’t know before!

      Don

  21. Mainly straightforward, but a couple of harder ones (SPEC, CLOUTING, RECEDE) and I did not know KITTEN = Cat, so DNF.
  22. Hopped about all over the place, never getting a rhythm. It was a couple of clues in the SE that took the longest. RECEDE and FEATURE. I had REC??E, and just could not think of the required “garden”, and a biff would not come to mind. Brain glue I think, as it’s pretty obvious when it’s spelled out! Then got FEATURE with the final E.

    Nothing wrong with the puzzle – wavelength and a dysfunctional brain. Missed the alphabetical trickery, but then I always do.

    Liked THIEF and NICK, both very neat.

    11:59.

  23. I found this really tricky today and not sure why.

    Having seen ‘close to’ in 10A and 5D I will now remember it as an indicator that until now I’d missed.

    With several clues I didn’t know where to start and really had to unpick the definition. eg. In 15D I thought ‘Perhaps stop’ indicated a word meaning stop, so got thrown off.

    Clues like 13A AIR RIFLE and 18A INTERNEE I find particularly hard as they involve 2 synonyms.

    Having had cats all my life I nevertheless had to look up what a Queen cat is.

    Thank you for the explanations, as ever.

    1. Yes. Before doing crosswords I had heard of a Tom cat. It is only since doing crosswords that I know of a Queen cat.
      1. I have heard of a cat being called a queen, but I always thought it referred to a pregnant cat.
        1. Well, not being terribly into cats (more off a dog person) I had never looked into it. But the dictionary simply seems to say “an adult female cat”.
          1. And then there is of course the saying “a cat may look at a queen”, which I have often thought might form the basis of some sort of reasonable self-referential crossword clue.
          2. I don’t have to worry about my cat being pregnant; it’s a Tom.

            I am the opposite to you. I love cats, but I really do not like dogs at all.

  24. Definitely not on the right wavelength today, with annoyingly 16dn staring at me after 30 mins. After exhausting my repertoire of monarchs and beehive possibilities I had to concede defeat. Have to admit, never knew an adult cat was called a queen so can’t really complain.

    Like many above I thought the NW corner at least went in fairly quickly. But then I got bogged down, not helped by putting “Belly Pork” in for 9dn, a dish which I hasten to add made me vomit as a child. Liked 5dn “Subhuman”, 3dn “Nick”, 18ac “Internee” and 12ac “Clouting” (another spot for “on vacation”)

    Interestingly, I initially dismissed the hidden word for 1ac thinking there wasn’t enough letters for “Helen”. Duh!

    FOI — 1ac “Helena”
    LOI — dnf (16dn)
    COD — 4ac “Aspire” — been on before, but I do like it and it always catches me out.

    Thanks as usual.

    Edited at 2021-02-11 12:00 pm (UTC)

  25. After Roly alerted me to the theme, I went back and had a look. I spotted the RHS of the grid starting with A to G, but failed to see that the LHS had the same endings. Other than that an uneventful solve,starting with HELENA and finishing with AIR RIFLE. Liked THIEF. 8:58. Thanks Alfie and Roly.
    1. If you consider the phrase “this grieves/upsets me, I think it works, as the wordplay yields/becomes grieve/upset. Works for me anyway.
  26. Found this very tough and thought there were far to many anagrams to make this a decent puzzle. So I disagree with the blogger that this was a nice puzzle for that reason. But as usual appreciate the bog as it certainly helps us learners

  27. After yesterday’s mile-stone (😉) event, it was interesting to read through today’s comments. I find myself definitely in the ‘that was hard’ camp. After about 30mins I was running out of steam with four left — Kitten, Recede, Blaze and Aspire. Knowing the symptoms, I stopped for a cup of tea and returned and managed to solve all four in that order. Recede was tough for a QC, but I should have spotted the other three first time round. A good, testing challenge from Alfie, with CoD by a ‘country’ mile to 20ac, Else, Invariant
  28. After staring at ELSE and RECEDE (LOI) for ages the penny finally dropped. Was quite pleased to parse the latter. But I forgot to go back and check on 3d where I had biffed Nice. NICK now seems obvious.
    I also admit I consulted CCD for BLAZE as I was stuck in NE corner.
    So having been feeling a little smug about my improving skills (as I saw them) I was brought back to earth by this tricky puzzle – Super Slowcoach Club today.
    Was pleased to get KITTEN though. SPEC was there in the parsing but gave me pause for thought.
    Have been crosswording on and off this am, so I can hardly remember my FOsI but they FEATUREd HELENA, LINSEED, DAIRYMAID, INTERNEE.

    Thanks, as ever, Roly.

  29. Strewth, this was hard work. Massive DNF with half a dozen or so left when I gave up, having no real incentive to carry on – I was struggling to parse a good few of the ones that I could biff. Didn’t enjoy it at all, I’m afraid.

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