28126 Thursday, 4 November 2021 Mad monks and mishpronunciation

Top half a bit of a doddle except the Aussie bit, bottom half a serious treacle wading exercise, with some tricksy definitions, including one I’m still not convinced by but expect to have my obtuseness ruthlessly/sympathetically exposed. The whole took me to 27.26. No words I didn’t actually know, though some, like the bar at 15 had to be dredged from some way down in the murkier depths.

I have supplied you with a set of explanations and the odd bit of trivia, with clues, definitions and SOLUTIONS

1 Vile of French, having photo framed in black (10)
DESPICABLE Of for French people DE, then PIC for photo framed by SABLE for black.
6 Our team may keep one piano clean (4)
WIPE I think in bridge conventionally the two teams are WE and they. Probably works in other fields. Our team is WE, of course, and here I (one) P(iano) is “kept”
8 Download track from opera with note from bank? (8)
RIPARIAN If I download a track from a CD to computer, I RIP it. If the track is from an opera, it might well be an ARIA. Add N(ote). Riparian means “of or inhabiting a riverbank.”
9 Significantly increase nonsense about Liberal (6)
TRIPLE Nonsense is TRIPE, “about” L(iberal)
10 Tolerate erasing Romeo in script (4)

BOOK To tolerate is to BROOK. Erase the NATO Romeo.
11 I slump awkwardly, embraced by man, irresistible (10)
COMPULSIVE An anagram (awkwardly) of I SLUMP taken in by COVE for a generic man.
12 Artist restrained by injunction after misbehaviour of lead star (9)
ALDEBARAN The brightest star in Taurus. A anagram (misbehaviour of) of LEAD followed by RA for artist (the frequently used Royal Academician) within (restrained by) BAN for injunction.
14 Feeling smart about Conservative account (5)
SCORE If you are feeling (a) smart you are SORE. Insert C(onservative)
17 Writer not ultimately adopted by Andersen? (5)
DANTE The question mark indicates that we have a definition by example (Hans Christian) Anderson being a DANE. Insert the last letter (ultimately) of noT
19 Encouraging period of work penning most of Disney film (9)
STIMULANT Period of work is STINT, and the Disney film is MULAN, “mostly” because you don’t need the N. These days “Disney film” presents a much wider choice, including the Star Wars franchise and the Marvel genre, and it took me a while to call Mulan to any kind of mind.
22 This hole designed to stash billions, in principle (10)
SHIBBOLETH The word comes from a particularly unpleasant sequence in the Biblical book of Judges in which the inability of the Ephraimites to pronounce the SH at the beginning of shibboleth marked them for slaughter. It has since become “any custom or tradition, usually a choice of phrasing or even a single word, that distinguishes one group of people from another” (wiki). I didn’t find “principle” a particularly helpful definition, and still don’t. But the wordplay is ok: an anagram (designed) of THIS HOLE plus two B(illions) stashed therein.
23 Lowlife heading for major argument, but held back (4)
WORM Heading for major is M, argument is ROW. Reverse (held back) the whole
24 Allocate grand in passing, without setting limits (6)
ASSIGN A generous, pretty well plain sight clue, in which G(rand) is inserted into ASSIN, which is passing without its first and last letters
25 Imperial advisor not quite ill-advised to enter (8)
RASPUTIN Too long looking for a generic advisor rather than the hairy specific one. RASH for ill-advised, not quite so drop the H, and then PUT IN for enter. I never noticed before the coincidence of the current supremo’s name.
26 Is no longer hot in thin coat (4)
WASH Is no longer WAS, plus H(ot). As in a thin coat of paint in preparation.
27 Blokes in British bird group showing confusion (10)
BEMUSEMENT A British bird group is the unlikely B EMU SET. Insert MEN for blokes.

1 Directors supporting rise of classic pub feature (9)
DARTBOARD Directors are the BOARD, and classic gives TRAD (as in jazz). It needs to rise, or reverse over the top.
2 Fool with club that’s found in trunk (7)
SAPWOOD Fool is SAP, and WOOD is a (golf) club.
3 Knot in whip leads to gossip (8)
CHITCHAT Knot is a (clove, for example) HITCH. Whip is CAT (as in o’ nine tails)
4 Mathematical statement converted into memorable hit briefly (8,7)
BINOMIAL THEOREM An anagram (converted) of INTO MEMORABLE HI (the hit bit is “briefly”). Careful attention to the fodder enabled me to avoid my usual shibboleth of spelling theorem with a U.
5 Good thing for Aussie, heading off, about to go to a restaurant (3,3)
EAT OUT Ah, yes, got it. A good thing for Australians is (I believe) BEAUT. Take off the heading B, and place the remains around TO in plain sight.
6 Fanciful stage production abandoned by university after initially warm welcome (9)
WHIMSICAL The stage production you need is a MUSICAL. Take out the U(niversity) and place (initially) W(arm) and welcome HI in front
7 State supporting China in discussion (7)
PALAVER China (plate) is CRS for mate, whence PAL. State is AVER, not one of the united ones, then.
13 Institute a bit less disorganised when set beside hospital (9)
ESTABLISH An anagram (disorganised) of A BIT LESS beside H(ospital)
15 Grounds mostly for keeping abundant supply in bar (9)
ESTAMINET Not, perhaps, the first version of the definition that comes to mind. Grounds gives you ESTATE, though only mostly so ditch the E. An abundant supply is a MINE (as in of information). Insert.
16 Source of exchange rate unchanged? It’ll get attention (8)
EMPHASIS Source of exchange is E, rate is MPH, and unchanged AS IS. A particularly misleading surface.
18 Speech problem keeps one in care of a parent (7)
APHASIA Keeps one give you HAS I, place inside A PA for parent. Inability to express thought in words.
20 Advocate English article following French article (7)
APOSTLE Caused me no end of trouble trying to get E(nglish) plus an article after a French article. Only when I realised after was there to mean POST did I add the A and the LE
21 Hot sweet endlessly served up for associate (6)
HOBNOB H(ot) plus an endless BONBON for sweet. The definition is a verb.

52 comments on “28126 Thursday, 4 November 2021 Mad monks and mishpronunciation”

  1. My Spellchecker thingy altered my title to Tipsy-Turkey!! I must have left it on the Thanksgiving setting!

    Unlike today’s Time Lord Zed, I found the treacle at the top and the ‘easier going’, at the bottom.
    The Norhwest Passage was my undoing as I confidently entered 2dn as SAPJACK maple syrup,
    and 10ac BEAR for some reason. Not being familiar with IKEA’S 12ac ALDEBARAN, (a small wardrobe) sealed my fate. DNF in a country hour.

    FOI 1ac DESPICABLE — me?

    (LOI) 8ac RIPARIAN — a recent favourite among shetters.

    COD 22ac SHIBBOLETH — the Ephraimites were asking for it, If you ask me! But as per Zed principle wasn’t quite the definition for the unprincipled shorryd either.

    WOD BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY which initially I thought fitted 4dn rather well. BINOMIAL THEOREM which was not a ‘hit’ that I remembered too well, unlike Lord Vinyl.

    I also preferred BAFFLEMENT at 27ac as BEMUSEMENT left me somewhat bewildered.

    Edited at 2021-11-04 04:09 am (UTC)

    1. I was dogged enough to write in BOHEMIAN RHAPSOD at first, which is virtually the instantiation of duncery.

      Edited at 2021-11-04 06:57 am (UTC)

  2. 52 minutes, including nodding off for a while. I couldn’t work out the parsing of DANTE or STIMULANT and SAPWOOD went in from wordplay alone. Previous crossword contact helped with RIPARIAN, ALDEBARAN and ESTAMINET.

    I know they’re hardly the standard crossword references, but the Macquarie Dictionary Online gives a few meanings for SHIBBOLETH, including “a belief which has been, and may still be, accepted as reflecting a true account of reality, but which is false or is implied to be false by so describing it” and one of the senses in the OED Online is “…a moral formula held tenaciously and unreflectingly, esp. a prohibitive one; a taboo”, both of which are a bit closer to the ‘principle’ def for 22a than a group’s distinctive habit or form of pronunciation.

    EAT OUT was beaut.

    Thanks to Zed and setter

  3. This was hard work but I got there eventually in 45 minutes.

    STIMULANT went in from definition though I think it has to be an adjective to work and that’s not a usage that leapt to mind. I NHO MULAN and note it only came out last year, which seems rather quick off the mark for Times crosswords! Never parsed 5dn.

    1. Like many films these days that was a remake. The original cartoon version was in 1998.
  4. Untimed as done piecemeal, but hard as others have said. Thought it would be easy after despicable/dartboard/bilateral (sic) theorem and Aldebaran… oops, that has an R where it needs an A. Fortunately a quick check of 4’s anagrist found binomial.
    Very slow at the end, though, Rasputin/apostle 2nd last pair in, sapwood and riparian last.
    Sure I’ve seen the stimulant clue recently, so it came easily today. As did the Aussie beaut, common slang hereabouts. Also never noticed Ras/Putin – a quick google in Russian language reveals the same spelling in Cryllic, too.
  5. I was with horryd in finding the NW corner the trickiest where I ended by head scratching over RIPARIAN, BOOK and DANTE. I was particularly concerned by BOOK, not being certain whether it fitted the definition of script and also being unsure about the meaning of brook. I had a similar experience to Z with APOSTLE which I had for some time assumed would end in -the.

    For ALDEBARAN I have Blur’s song Far Out to thank, being as it is about celestial bodies and naming several of them.

      1. I’ve been having an extended dabble into classical music recently and I’ve particularly enjoyed Holst. I’ve not come across his Blur cover versions yet though.
    1. Perhaps think ‘by the book’

      Or actors when rehearsing firstly read through and then proceed to go ‘off book’.

  6. My wife’s a mathematical whizz
    Her clue of the day
    I think she would say
    I have such a clever missus
    1. Perhaps you and I
      Could strongly deny
      That the emu’s a bird
      Well, it’s simply absurd
      It can’t even fly

      Edited at 2021-11-05 12:04 am (UTC)

  7. 57 minutes with LOI ESTAMINET, a word heard but whose meaning I did not know. FOI was BINOMIAL THEOREM, and I thought,”I’m going to enjoy this.” If so, it was a perverse sort of enjoyment. MULAN for instance was from well after I had to sit through Disney stuff with my kids, but I had just about heard of it. We went to the Yusupov Palace when we were in St Petersburg and that was atmospheric. Thank you Z and setter for this toughie.
  8. 23:05 I made heavy weather of this but got there eventually, finishing with EAT OUT and TRIPLE. DNK the Disney film. Post solve, I found this Aldebaran score by Enya, FWIW. Thank-you Z and setter.

    Edited at 2021-11-04 08:52 am (UTC)

    1. Buffalo Springfield – Stephen Stills – ‘For what its worth’ Sunset Strip riots – 1966
      1. “Paranoia strikes deep….” and it certainly did here, as Mulan was a gap in my already sparse Disney knowledge, and Bambi wouldn’t fit. NHO my LOI, and struggled with the anagrist — the THEOREM was a given, but was it “bonimial” ? Fortunately BINOMIAL looked more likely. Not my favourite puzzle of the week.

        FOI DESPICABLE (like the setter 🤬)
        LOI BINOMIAL THEORY (more birds please)
        COD EAT OUT (Bonzer Blue !)
        TIME 17:14 (my SNITCH rating is screwed)

  9. 12:50. No real problems today, although I had to fiddle with the anagrist a bit before the theorem revealed itself.
    My progeny are sufficiently numerous, and of such an age, that I have enjoyed both versions of Mulan So no problem there.
    I always remember ALDEBARAN as the star that sounds a bit like the planet, which is ninja-turtling of a sort.
  10. I liked this one, but took an age to finish off RASPUTIN and EMPHASIS, 35 minutes all told. The top half was easier than the lower. I wasn’t sure what a SHIBBOLETH was but the anagram fodder provided a word I’d heard of.

    Z8 – a couple of typos – MMORABLE at 4d and BOBBON at 21d.

  11. Pretty steady progress throughout although I went step-by-step thru the wordplay of NHO ALDEBARAN. Good to see SHIBBOLETH even if I had little idea what it actually means. Rather liked WHIMSICAL and HOBNOB clues. Many thanks to setter and blogger.
  12. Gave this the full hour but couldn’t crack the SE corner, including the very easily-clued WORM (I thought of “row” and really can’t understand how I failed to get there) For 25a I had RASHOMON stuck in my head, imagining it to be a Japanese courtier or similar. Only after looking it up afterwards did I realise I saw the Kurosawa movie a few years ago, nothing to do with imperial goings-on. NHO ESTAMINET – and never got anywhere close to that….

    …and even if I’d cracked that corner, I had ALDERABAN for 12a, so that’s technical and literal DNFs. Anyway, pleased to note that RIPARIAN is now in my vocabulary after an appearance a couple of weeks ago.

  13. 36′, would have been a bit less but had a phone consultation with an actual doctor, most relieved.

    RASPUTIN LOI, now have Boney M earworm.

    Thanks z and setter.

  14. 31 minutes of hard graft only to invent a Binomial Theerem.

    Some clever stuff here -APOSTLE, RASPUTIN, DANTE. I normally have a bowl of ALDEBARAN most mornings but wouldn’t allow HOBNOBS in the house – they are the devil’s biscuits.

    Thanks to z and the setter.

    1. I worked on Hobnobs (McVities) when they first emerged – we persuaded Ian Dury to develop a soundtrack, which was a children’s nursery rhyme telling the the story of a rich man and his biscuits. “Shoes by Lobbs” etc and Mr. Dury just sing/talking HOBNOBS HOBNOBS HOBNOBS! It didn’t run, you’ll be astonished to hear! The work of the Devil.
  15. Aah hubris. 48 mins and preening, then found sapband & bear were wrong. NW Passage was my undoing again. Thanks to setter and all on here.
  16. 49 minutes, with a look at a list of writers for the Dante clue. I thought it was probably a writer but couldn’t be bothered. And I tried to cheat on the bemusement clue, but it wasn’t there so I just had to work it out.
  17. Today is a slow day at the office. So I thought I’d have a go at the full Cryptic, rather than just the QC as is my norm.

    Answer after answer slotted in neatly, even managing to dredge half-remembered vocab (RIPARIAN, APHASIA, SHIBBOLETH, ALDEBARAN) out when crossers were available. A whole load of hopeful biffing (RASPUTIN, WHIMSICAL, BEMUSEMENT) when they weren’t.

    Eventually after 40 mins was stymied by WORM – which I simply couldn’t figure – and ESTAMINET – which I’ve never heard of.

    All in all pretty chuffed with myself. Maybe I’ll give the 15×15 a go more often.

  18. 1 hour and 17 minutes and still 81st on the leaderboard at 11:10 this morning. This needed a lot of hard work. I’m dead chuffed to have finished. FOI 1ac DESPICABLE, but not many easy ones after that. I finished in the north west with POI SAPWOOD then LOI BOOK. NHO MULAN. No other NHOs but there were words I knew but would have struggled to attach a meaning to. Thank you Z for the blog
  19. Did no-one else notice that Chitchat appeared in the Cryptic and the Quick Cryptic – or I am the only one who attempts to do both?
    1. Somebody mentioned it indirectly in the first comment under the QC blog.

      We prefer not to draw attention to such occurrences early in the day so as to give contributors a chance to tackle whichever puzzle they do second without already knowing one of the answers.

      Edited at 2021-11-04 12:46 pm (UTC)

      1. Yeah, and I haven’t even gotten to the QC yet. I save it for an idle five minutes during my workday.
        You could have deleted that, actually.

        Edit: OK, pretty obvious clue that was, anyway.

        Edited at 2021-11-04 05:41 pm (UTC)

        1. I take the view that the blog works by UK time and 12 hours into the day this was not an issue.
          1. It’s pretty funny that this Anonymouse wants to know if he the only one who works both puzzles.
            So many clueless Anonymice!

            Edited at 2021-11-04 06:37 pm (UTC)

  20. 35:50. A very enjoyable workout, relying on the cryptics for a few words I knew but could not have defined. SHIBBOLETH is an interesting word that seems to be coming back into more common usage in these divided, factional times — often as dismissive description of a belief you don’t share, though I am not sure I have ever seen it used in an entirely non-judgemental way. I agree that ‘principle’ isn’t a particularly convincing definition.
  21. Nearly gave up several times but perseverance paid off. Bear and sapcard were my offerings for book and sapwood. Didn’t parse eat out. NHO aldebaran but worked it out from the wordplay. SE corner was the most difficult (apart from the ones I got wrong, of course) with emphasis, rasputin and apostle being the last ones in. COD apostle for the utterly misleading use of ‘following’ for ‘post’.
    Thanks setter and blogger
  22. Everything was workoutable in the end, though I did fail to parse a few and there are a few never-heard-ofs.

    FTP: ASSIGN (obvious in retrospect); RASPUTIN (from three checkers — had been thinking Mikado imperialism until I got the S checker to go with R and N); EAT OUT (didn’t spot the BEAUT)

    NHO: ALDEBARAN (worked out from four checkers though could have finished with either N or R)

    I had heard of SHIBBOLETH but had no idea what it was — pencilled in from the B and E checkers.

    APHASIA — couldn’t have told you what it was before now.

    STIMULANT — took a while to come up with MULAN.

    ESTAMINET — dug up from the recesses.

  23. 24.59. A pretty smooth solve for me today until needing an alpha-trawl to get the club bit of sapwood. I think I was just being lazy though, might have got there with a bit more thought before embarking on the trawl. Fingers crossed for eat out which I failed to parse (nice job Z that was fiddly), fingers more tightly crossed for apostle where I could make neither head nor tail of the parsing, something which has more often than not led to pink squares in the past.
  24. FOI was BINOMIAL THEOREM, followed by DESPICABLE and BEMUSEMENT and other crossers. This one wouldn’t have taken much time if I hadn’t gotten too sleepy to continue. Finished in a flash this morning (my new routine, apparently).

    LOI BOOK! Ha

    Les castors bâtirent. Les “mazagrans” fumèrent dans les estaminets.
    My first encounter with ESTAMINET was in Rimbaud’s “Après le Déluge,” in Illuminations, many years ago. A bit of a surprise to find an ESTAMINET here.

    Edited at 2021-11-04 03:45 pm (UTC)

  25. Wipe the whimsical worm. Further progress was impossible for me today. Not so much a DNF as CND – could not do. Thanks, Z, and setter.

    Edited at 2021-11-04 04:02 pm (UTC)

  26. With quite a lot of background chat putting me off me stride. Had to pause with about ten to go; resumed this evening and they slotted in easily enough. I was another Bohemian rhapsodist ; and an extrovert at 15 down (trove for mine) until I gave up searching for a reason why. Rarely for me, I got the three “edgies” 1 ac, 1 dn and 6 ac in seconds – luring me into thinking it was going to be easy. Which it wasn’t, but mighty fun for a’that.
  27. 38 mins. Bit of a struggle but pleased to see it through. Estaminet my last one in, worked it out after I’d put it in but had a vague remembrance of the wird and, importantly, it fitted the spaces! Amazed I got bionomial theorem, maths was never a strong suit. Dead heat between Rasputin, aphasia and emphasis for COD.
  28. All but the last 2, RIPARIAN and SAPWOOD, this last being a very simple clue that I got a..e over t.t, and it’s too late in the evening to care!
  29. I went with “Extaminet” being “ext(en)t” wrapping “a mine” — thinking it might be a legal term for a bar/ban. Silly error, but still enjoyed this puzzle.
    Thanks Z.
  30. One small point after a late-night look at this one. I think the “team” in 6A are playing football or a similar sport with lots of supporters. It’s not a dictionary meaning, but “we beat Spurs 2-0” is standard comment from football supporters (or at least the London ones I heard at tube stations long ago), with the exact “our team” meaning used. I’d place a small bet against “our team” ever meaning NS (or EW), and I suspect “partners” rather than “team” would be used for the bridge-related version.
    1. You may well be right, though I would observe you chose a particularly unkind example of the overheard footie comment on my watch! Mrs Z plays bridge with almost as much fervour as she follows the ups and downs (and further downs) of Spurs, and if I asked her nicely about her bridge “team” I might well persuade her to furnish a claim on that small bet.

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