24529

Author   petebiddlecombePosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time: 20:40, one mistake

I found this very difficult, partly from the vocabulary/knowledge required, and partly from tricky wordplay.

Across
1 BUCKRAM = cloth – reversal of (MARK=spot (stain on clothing, though possibly “notice” for both too), CUB=youngster). Wordplay only seen afterwards, having thought of “young buck” and a reversal of mar=spot=”spoil” – not really justified by the clue, as “spinning” didn’t indicate reversal of the right stuff. (brackets added post-comment to indicate the extent of the reversal)
5 CELEB(E)S – Celebes, now Sulawesi, is an island of memorable shape in Indonesia
9 STANCHIONED = equipped with stanchions – anag. of “china doesn’t”, though not worked out on first look
10 MOA – hidden in “bemoan” – my first answer written into the grid
11 R.E. = Royal Engineers = “some soldiers”,LIEF = gladly/happily (archaic) – I thought of this relatively early on, but waited for checking letters to confirm it
12 My wrong answer – faced with ?T?N?I?G, I thought of STONKING and not STUNNING, and hoped that “stoking”, related to “stoke up” = eat a lot to gain energy, would mean food and drink in general. It doesn’t – the right wordplay is N=noon in (GIN,NUTS) reversed
14 HECTOR = bully verbally, (Irving) BERLI(n) = songwriter, OZ. = “light weight”. So we can’t say that the Times puzzle never uses “word splitting” tricks – the clue has “lightweight” for the sake of the surface. Having the composer’s name in full was novel, and meant that I was trying to find a name like Coleridge-Taylor, until B?R?I?? or similar gave the game away
17 CHINES = “joints of meat”,E(picure),LEAVES=”doesn’t eat” – “chinese leaves” can mean either bok choy (various spellings) or Nappa Cabbage (various names). A chine is an animal’s backbone with adjoining meat, or a mountain ridge. (Except in our next destination – in Southern England, chines are ravines or fissures in cliffs.)
21 IN,VENT(n)OR – Ventnor is close to the southern tip of the Isle of Wight.
23 ST(R.A.F.)E(w) – my second answer, and fairly straightforward as long as you know that “strafe” is both verb and noun, or like me are prepared to believe it.
25 L,O.T.=Old Testament=”collection of books” – more helpful than the fairly common “book” which relies on a Bible in two volumes. Corrected post comment – “collection” is the def
26 GRANITEWARE = (anger, waiter)* – another one thought of fairly early on but left until there was confirmation
27 S(HEATH)S – 1970s Tory Ted Heath was the only Prime Minister to win a major yacht race. He’s “on board” because he’s inside SS=steamship, in case any beginners haven’t seen this trick yet. I think his sailing was better than his orchestral conducting, his other high-profile hobby. I’m sure I’ve heard a tale about him getting stroppy with some orchestra and being threatened with the ultimate punishment from orchestral players: “Any more trouble and we’ll actually start following your beat”. If you go to a concert and have seats close to the band, it’s always worth checking to see whether they are really watching the conductor.
28 POTHEAD = (Dope that(t))* – supply = “in a supple way” is a common Times anagram indicator on the fiendish side
 
Down
1 Today’s omitted answer
2 CH(ALL)A,H=hot – challah is braided bread eaten by many Jews at sabbath meals – not some kind of chapatti or anything to do with cholla (a cactus), both of which drifted into my solving consciousness
3 REC.(HER,C=caught),HE – in colloquial British, the rec = “recreation ground” is the local park
4 MAIN – two defs, including the river on which Frankfurt stands (unless it’s Frankfurt an der Oder). Apparently it includes the “White Main”, but alas no “Blue Main”
5 CONS’ TABLES = “lists of criminals”
6 L=large,ADEN=port – a former British possession, staging post on the shipping route to India
7 B=book,A M(B)INI – a bambino=baby is arbtrarily male, so the Italian plural is bambini
8 STAR=tabloid (recently involved in some crass ash cloud coverage), GAZE(ttes)=newspapers
13 COME TOP = “do really well in test”,ASS=dunce (a good reminder to use the right picture on this report!)
15 RE=on (VET MEN=”check soldiers”),T
16 ACH(ILL=badly)ES
18 IN=home,VI=six,TEE = “tea” = “talked of a cuppa”
19 SEAL=closer (i.e. something that closes), ACE=magnificent – sea lace, a new word for me, is also known as bootlace weed or sea bootlace
20 BE HELD = “suffer detention”
22 NIGHT – the “word for the retiring” is “goodnight”, so we just have to supply the part after “good”
24 LIMP – two defs, though one arguably means dragging one foot rather than both.

49 comments on “24529”

  1. This was a bit of a stinker. CELEBES first in and the rest ground out over I don’t know how long.

    I felt pleased just to have finished without aids (or mistakes!) although I had to check CHALLAH post-solve and didn’t get the wordplay for either POTHEAD or STARGAZE (but what else could they be?)

    Congratulations on the blog Peter!

  2. found this very difficult, needing aids quite early to break an impasse. wasted time on trying to anagramatise 9ac ‘post in china’ and 16d ‘is dying’ with ‘r’ in it. came up with sea kale for 19d, despite knowing from the cost of it and the way it is grown that this was very unlikely. cod 17ac.
  3. Not an easy puzzle – 35 minutes to solve with the southern hemisphere giving me most problems

    At 25A LOT, what’s the definition?

    I struggled with “Heath” as a yachtsman. A bit like describing Churchill as a bricklayer. Not quite fair I think. Also as noted by Peter to limp is to drag one foot not both.

    Strangely, for all its cleverness, no clue really stood out for me as being exceptionally good.

  4. Swine! 31 minutes today, but by chance all right. BISTRO and MOA (my eye attracted to an obvious hidden) were first in, STRAFE was an early probable entry from the wordplay, though I thought strafing used bullets not bombs.
    I think the definition for 25 is collection, and OT indicated only by books.
    Didn’t know the pottery (again!) at 26, but reasonably obvious from play and opened things up a lot. Last in the SE corner, though BEHELD should have been obvious, and I couldn’t see the anagrist in POTHEAD (duh!) Today I liked HECTOR BERLIOZ, though it took a long time to work out.
  5. Nearly two hours for me, and four not filled in even then (26ac, 19dn, 22dn, 24dn). Having checked the excellent blog, I find that I had three more wrong (15, 27 and 28), of which, realistically, I should have got RIVETMENT, where I wrote RIVETTING to fill in the spaces.

    A struggle after getting 5 on the first run-through. CHALLAH and BUCKRAM correctly guessed, though I couldn’t see the full wordplay for the latter till coming here. Held up by wanting ANTIBES at 5ac, although CELEBES is in my neck of the woods. MOA straight in, as my mother’s a Kiwi. STANCHIONED easy for a football fan, as stanchions were phased out 20 odd years ago after perfectly good goals kept being denied when the ref thought the ball had come back off the post.

    COD to the HECTOR BERLIOZ.

  6. 27m. A fair bit of GK needed here, some of which I couldn’t get without help: “chine(s)”, “Ventnor” and “graniteware” in particular. On the former: it’s now entered anthropological vocabulary as a practice (via la chine) from the French slang chiner — meaning something like: to rummage around (at, say, a jumble sale) and yet assemble the disparate contents into something meaningful. In the one analysis I know, it applies to the youthful Terence Conran, founder of Habitat. But don’t expect that meaning any day now in the Times!
    1. Yes – I forgot to include one pair of brackets – now added.
  8. Very heavy going for me. I started it in the middle of the night and gave up with only 8 clues solved but forgot to record the time spent. On resuming this morning things weren’t much better and I failed to work out 20dn without assistance, but at least I didn’t get any of the others wrong despite being unsure of some of the wordplay.

    Somebody yesterday suggested the puzzles are getting harder. That doesn’t seem to be borne out by the solving times of most of the speed-merchants but I definitely seem to be having more trouble recently than some months ago. Today’s was one of those puzzles with all very long clues which I find distracting. I prefer a better mix with some really short ones thrown in to concentrate the mind.

    1. I agree the puzzles appear to be getting harder. I worked through ‘The Times Crossword Book 1’ recently, which is a compilation of puzzles that appeared in 2004/05 (before I started solving), and with the majority of these I had a fighting chance of completing without constantly having to refer to a dictionary. The flavour of recent puzzles seems to be to throw in as many obscurities as possible, with convoluted wordplay that offers scant help and still makes little sense after seeing the answer. For instance 5D yesterday required knowledge of an obscure PM to solve for an equally obscure plant.

      It would be a shame if the perceived trend in increasing difficulty is influenced by particular solvers on this site, who more often than not describe the puzzles as easy or average, as they are not representative of the majority of solvers, particularly those forlornly hoping to solve during the daily commute.

      1. I don’t think we have much effect on the level of difficulty – as far as I know the editor doesn’t read us every day, and the setters have a healthy scepticism about my value as an indicator of a puzzle’s difficulty.

        The current series of books doesn’t reach current crossword editor Richard Browne until part-way through Book 9. The puzzles in previous books were edited by Brian Greer and Mike Laws, whose approaches were both slightly stricter in terms of what the setters were allowed to do (or perhaps more important, not do). Richard has now been in charge for about 8 years, and although some of his changes took a while to take effect, I think the current style was mostly established by the time this blog started. I now think of 10 minutes as an average time for me – in the Book 1 days, I would have said 8. I don’t think there has been a significant change of difficulty for any period of a month or more since about January 2006.

        If they put in “as many obscurities as possible” it would be far worse – as you can confirm from any Mephisto or Club Monthly puzzle.

      2. I think you make some valid points particularly on yesterday’s 5dn. Even having remembered the PM in question I had forgotten the exact spelling of his name which was a vital factor in deciphering the name of a plant that I had never heard of.

        I think today’s 19dn is another example of dubious cluing, especially when to get the all checking letters one is expected to know of an obscure type of pottery and that STRAFE has an alternative meaning which is apparently known to dictionary compilers in Oxford but not to Chambers or Collins.

        1. The SE corner today is quite hard, but “pottery” in the clue should suggest “-ware” which narrows down the anagram options, and by analogy with “stoneware”, graniteware should be no great surprise. Likewise a noun meaning of a verb, a very common process in English.

          As for yesterday’s plant, it may not be the plant the setter was referring to, but rosebay willowherb is found in all sorts of places these days, and gives you a rosebay/plant connection.

          1. Not sure if this refers to my comment about STRAFE but if so, I wasn’t thinking of the noun/verb thing which as you say is a very common process. I was thinking of “bombing”. As raised by another contributor, I’d always understood that strafing is shooting bullets rather than dropping bombs and this is confirmed in Collins and Chambers (and dictionary.com for what it’s worth). It’s only the Oxfords (COED and SOED) that add the bombing reference.I know it’s therefore okay for Times crossword purposes but it didn’t help matters in a very difficult corner.
        2. Personally I find getting obscurities from wordplay alone one of the most satisfying things about doing this puzzle, particularly as it’s something you do get better at. Fortunate really because my general knowledge is pretty indifferent so I have plenty of opportunity.
          Too much of a good thing today though.
  9. Blimey, there must have been something in that second cup of coffee this morning – about 15 mins for me (from when the Northern Line goes underground at east Finchley to Kings Cross).
    There was some fairly unfamiliar vocab, but it all seemed reasonably indicated by the clues, though I agree ‘yachtsman’ for Heath could be quite unfair to younger solvers. I remember as a teenager all the Private Eye mickey-takes of “the grocer” messing about on his yacht – I even remember it was called ‘Morning Cloud’.
    1. East Finchley to Kings Cross could be ANY amount of time on the Northern Line – but well done. At least HEATH was not clued by “pianist”, though he was professional class there too. I do remember that Heath treasured a letter from an elderly correspondent who told him his book on yachting “made me want to take up playing the piano”. Do any of the current crop do anything at a significant level but politics?
      1. When I was in my early 20s a friend’s uncle had a boat which we sailed across to Cherbourg one Easter weekend, and I briefly met Ted Heath who was in the yacht club being very affable to all. I think of his three interests (yachting, politics and music) he should have stuck to yachting.
        1. I think I may have related this one here before but it’s on point. Some felt Heath’s musical ambition, especially as a conductor, exceeded his talent. While rehearsing a fine orchestra as guest conductor, the orchestra’s leader reportedly lost patience and said: “Sir Edward, if you don’t stop being beastly to us we’re going to start doing what you’re telling us.”

          And another; Alexander Chancellor recalls reading of Heath’s shortcomings as a conductor on Paris newspaper stands. “I remember passing through Paris one day in the 1970s, after Heath had been conducting the European Youth Orchestra at Fontainebleau, to see a large headline in France-Soir: ‘Heath a Massacré Mozart’.”

  11. Oh dear, after seeing the Peter fail icon, I wondered what I’d done wrong, and this time it was inventing SEA MACE.
    1. I just realised I got 19dn wrong after all, having bunged in SEA KALE and hoped for the best. I think an obscure solution where there may may be several alternatives should have less obscure wordplay than demonstrated here.
  12. Did not think this was exceptionally hard, 33 mins, the clue I did not understand till coming here tho I had it pencilled in from the start from the definition ‘happen’ was COME TO PASS – the relevance of ‘pass’ to exams was what set me on the wrong track in trying to understand it.
  13. I found this exceptionally difficult, and was very pleased to finish until checking here, when I realised that my guess of SEA MACE at 19dn was wrong. “Seam” for “closer” was always dodgy but by the time I got to it I had taken enough punishment.
    So many unfamiliar terms for me: CHALLAH, CELEBES, MOA, VENTNOR, GRANITEWARE, REVETMENT, STANCHIONED. In most cases things I’d vaguely heard of but only very vaguely so I needed the wordplay. And some of the wordplay was tricky: even after checking here it took me a while to see ACHES = IS DYING and I missed the “supply” indicator at 28ac. And I don’t think I’ve seen “stew” for “trouble” before. At least I knew about Ted Heath’s sailing even though I was in nappies when he resigned as PM.
    So all in all doable (nearly) but a real struggle. Good practice I suppose…
  14. 18:18 here, and a similar experience to Mick H. I didn’t find it all that hard apart from the last two which I must have spent five minutes on. One easy (20D BEHELD) and the much trickier SEA LACE, which I really wanted to be SEA KALE but eventually guessed from the wordplay.
  15. 25 mins here, and for some reason I put GRATINEWARE, thinking of the pottery with the brown crust. I must have been punch drunk by then, as I had spent so long satisfying myself of the wordplay to the unknown REVETMENT before I could get POTHEAD. A good challenge, albeit one I flunked.
  16. About an hour. Took a long time to get BEHELD at the end, but otherwise no major problem. Also took far too long to see GRANITEWARE despite realizing it probably ended EWARE.
  17. At 33 minutes or so I found this marginally easier than yesterday’s. Last in limp – I think I must have been put off by the reference to both feet which others have pointed out.

    Wasn’t Buckram Pothead the Euphonium player in The Temperance Seven?

  18. Was greatly relieved to come on today and see that others of you thought this was difficult. I had all of four written in before resorting to aids. Excellent blog – many thanks.
    1. Cheeky prediction: your four were from: 10, 25, 1D, 4, 22, 24.
      1. Good guess! 10, 1D, 24 were three. I managed to get 7, but only because the first time I read the clue “kids from Rome” made the word pop into my head.
  19. 29 minutes. Found this a real struggle although managed to get there in the end. Interesting point by PB re the tougher clues softening you up. I spent 6 or 7 minutes on the last three in the SE corner. Got 24 and 25 then was reduced to going through the alphabet to fill in -E-E-D and even then didn’t get it for a while , and I’m sure it is a familiar clue. CHALLAH was a new word for me. Good puzzle
  20. I’m glad everyone – well, nearly everyone – else found this tough going. Got there in the end, but with one mistake. Like Jack, I had SEA KALE at 19dn. I knew it was likely to be wrong, as there was no way I could make the wordplay work, but I’d never heard of SEA LACE, and even if I had, I’m not sure SEA L = closer would ever have occurred to me.
  21. Just out of curiosity:

    Why does the DE (Daily Elucidator) sometimes refrain from explaining an answer, entering instead “deliberately omitted”?

    1. Go to the very top of the page and click on “about this blog”
  22. Found this one very tricky and only managed half of it. I’m no longer a novice but only got four of the six listed by Peter above (not 22 or 24)!

    Had REALMS for 11 which I thought was a fair definition of “countries” and RE + ALMS (help).

  23. Finished in just under the hour and was over the moon. i too had Beheld as last in…good clue…some obscure ones too though!

    bring it on!

    will we have an election special tomorrow?

  24. Day in town of chines (other meaning of course) for a funeral so done in car – 40 m – but sea lace waited till I got home and looked in dic to get suggestions to fit checkers. Agree some obscurities and glad sea lace the only one I missed. Otherwise last in 24, 20, 28. Liked 22a. On difficulty, there seem to be occasional ones like this which I find slower to tune in to, between runs of easier meat.
  25. Very hard for me, as seems to be the general, if not the unanimous opinion. About an hour, last entry BEHELD, which I should have seen earlier. But, I went under on SEA LACE, trying SEA KALE instead. I never saw the cryptic there, distracted thinking that the ‘closer to magnificent’ was simply ‘T’, and hoped that this meant sea kale could actually be steeped and brewed. The fact that I actually solved all the rest makes me pleased, not knowing the who Heath the ex-yachtsman was, Ventnor (thought of the US Monopoly game’s Ventnor Ave), or what CHINESE LEAVES are. Regards everyone.
  26. Too tough for me. Found myself rolling down from the north, going all right if slow, then had to go to work, kept glancing at bottom third all day while teaching young maniacs, no help there, back home brain had seized up, gave up with seven clues unsolved. Annoying since enjoyed what I did: an exceptionally good crossword all round. There was a takeoff of Heath on a television satirical programme conducting with his shoulders, after the manner of the heaving chuckle that tended to consume him. But poor conductor or not, he sailed for England.

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