24463

Author   petebiddlecombePosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
22:45 for this – the hard one which Jimbo has been waiting for. Tackled late last night so maybe I wasn’t in my sharpest form, but 27 was my first answer, with 13 following swiftly, and suggesting a pangram on its own. 18D (for which I was distracted by sometimes=?=SOMEDAY), and 22 went in last.

Full report after breakfast – sorry, possibly after lunch.

One thing to mention now: 2D seems to have a mistake – MINES=digs,W=with,EEPE=blade,R=runs. The blade must really be epee, but I can’t see any indication of the reversal.

Across
1 HEM=edge,LOCK=forward – hemlock is the poison famously taken by (from memory) Socrates
5 DI = rev. of ID=papers,STAFF (vb.)=man – a distaff is a stick used in spinning, and the name for the female side of a family tree
9 Deliberately omitted
10 SHOWS=proves,TOPPER=hat
11 MASON JAR = (Jam Nora’s)* – I wasted time try to “jam” with “Nora’s put”. Not sure exactly what kind of container this is – it turns out to be much the same as a Kilner jar, with a different inventor.
12 V=see (from Lat. vide),ERMIN(e)
15 NOES = “nose” = interfere
16 BUSY=policeman=copper,LIZZIE=Elizabeth (R). The busy lizzie is a.k.a. impatiens, which comes up in puzzles from time to time
18 TAPES=recorded evidence,TRIED=heard in court
19 XMAS – M=marks, in rev. of SAX = “jazz player” – as I’m not keen on the idea that instruments play, I’ll explain this as the name of the instrument denoting someone who plays it – like the recently deceased Johnny Dankworth.
22 EARWAX – (ARW = war*,A=area) in EX = late, as in ex-parrot
23 D.A.=lawyer,(l)IQUI(d),(d)RI(p)
25 (woul)D,UNFE(RM.)LINE – “unfeline” is an easily constructed invention. I’m not mad keen on plain “town” as a definition, but it’s not easy to work a more specific def into a smooth surface.
27 U = about-turn,GH=”pair before I” (in the alphabet). The U is a bit naughty as it’s really “U-turn”
28 YE(L)T,SIN=wrong (noun.)
29 TA(LONE)D – very good misleading use of bit=TAD
 
Down
1 HA(N.G. = no good)M,AN(d)
2 MINES=digs,W=with,EEPE=blade,R=runs – as already stated, this includes a mistake, now confirmed by the xwd ed – no reversal indicator for epée=blade. The original clue (“One removing bombs digs with blade and runs”) may have been amended by the time you read this, in the online version or any book version of the puzzle
3 ON = cricket side, SONG=number
4 (KO,OK)=”back-to-back defeats” from KO=knock-out,A,B(UR = rev. of R.U.)RA – very good work on the wordplay/surface meaning interface here
5 DASH – two three definitions. I’m not sure whether “touch Scotch” is supposed to mean that dash is a Scots word, or that Scotch means the drink – i.e. “touch of Scotch” When you write “2 defs or 3?” on your paper copy, making yourself look daft by not checking this point reduces any smugness about 2D.
6 SLOVEN=scruff,I=one,A – we behold the state when we put it in the grid.
7 ALP = rev. of pla(n)
8 FOR ONCE – 2 defs
13 MOZAMBIQUAN = (mob quiz a man)*
14 WYKEHAMIST = a student at Winchester College – (why mistake)*
17 ESCAPEES – (P=soft,EE = 2 x E=drug), in cases*
18 sTrUdElS iDeAl,Y=variable
20 S=son,WISH=will,E(n)D – I’d call swishing waving or brandishing rather than “shaking” so I think this pushes things a bit for the surface meaning
21 SQUEAL – qu. = queen, in SEAL = “shake hands on”, as of a deal
24 “AM IN” is the claim to popularity.
26 NIL – from second letters of “unravelling Times clues”

72 comments on “24463”

  1. For the most part this didn’t strike me as particularly difficult as I had all but a few in the SE corner within 30 minutes and this is quite good by my standards. But those last few added another 20 minutes to my time and I am still not sure that one of them is correct. I’ve had no time to go back and think out the wordplay in several others so I still have some unexplained.
  2. Seem to be keeping a regular PBx2 rhythm here: 44 mins and of quite a degree of difficulty; esp (as jackkt notes) in the SE. Will wait for the blog before conjecturing about a couple of things in that corner. Suffice for now to note the pangram; which would be a double pangram but for a single J.
  3. Slightly slow start having creatively put WINGING (“not finishing game”) for 1dn.. once that was sorted out, steady progress to finish at c30mins, or fairly hard. For once I did spot the pangram, but not the error at 2dn.
  4. Finished with 2 wild guesses in SE corner and another 4 at least unexplained. Was going to mention epee but usually get shot down in flames. Also worried about BUSY (bizzy) but note Chambers has “detective”.
    Going for a lie down.
    1. Barry, sleep well.
      See the “scuffer” debate yesterday. As one who should know (along with “Angonamo”, aka Sotira), I don’t think “bizzy”/”busy” was ever much used on Merseyside. Though, now we’ve also had “wack”, expect “tosh” as a rough equivalent any time now.
      Or right ar kid?
      1. I’ve been looking out for the bizzies for a couple of months now. I’d never heard the word before and rashly suggested that it might be Cockney rhyming slang. That idea was quickly pooh-poohed.

        But I’ve since noticed that ‘busy’ (referring to Inspector Lestrade of the Yard) was used in the first clue in the 1940 ‘anniversary’ puzzle, meaning that the word must have been in common use in London then. So it’s clearly an old expression – and certainly doesn’t date from Brookside-era Liverpool.

  5. Having managed the last two days in 15 and 17 minutes each, (with one error each day, so good for me on recent efforts), I foolishly attempted this one soon after midnight.

    Did the majority in 45 mins but had to abandon the NE. On waking I filled in all but one of the rest correctly, with guesses. Still can’t see the wordplay for three or four.

    1. 3dn: cricket side = ON + number = SONG, def: performing well.
      4dn: back to back defeats = KO + OK, with a couple of cups = A BRA containing UR = rugby, upset to make “a winger in Australia.” Clever, that 4dn.
  6. I thought this was a terrific puzzle, but it was far too difficult for me to complete unaided. 13 of 32 clues solved without aids shows just how far I have to go to become an expert. Managed to finish it by using OneLook and am glad I persevered because I enjoyed unravelling all the clues. In particular I liked HANGMAN, DASH, UGH, BUSY LIZZIE, AMIN and XMAS, but my COD goes to TALONED for its beautiful smooth surface. First in ON SONG, last in SWISHED.

    Great stuff setter – thank you!

  7. Thank goodness for that – one that needed concentrated effort. 35 minutes for me. I think NIL at 26D is a real cracker. I agree with you Peter about 2D. I got it from the definition and M?N?S…. but felt something was wrong without being able to put my finger on it. Went back afterwards and clicked that the blade was upside down! Should be an interesting blog.
    1. I’ve been asked off blog to parse 20D SWISHED. The definition is “shaken with whistling” then S-WISH-E(n)D where S=son; will=WISH; end disheartened=ED
      2. OK, I’ll take the fall for that. My pint when next I’m in Dorset. What’s your poison?
        Just wondered how many solvers (as I did) might have seen “whistling” as a gerund from the verb “whistle” — to wish. So there might be a “whistling”/”wish” for, say, one’s supper.
        Even the Mac OED has:
        “(whistle for) wish for or expect (something) in vain : you can go home and whistle for your wages”.
        Now I expect to do something of that sort.
        But I’m pleased to see you (Jim) in better spirits!

        1. A pint of Badger’s Best with a chunk of Dorset Vinney and a plate of Dorset Knobs – unbeatable!
  8. 23 mins, last in was 20D SWISHED. Great fun, lots of excellent and imaginative clues. Favourites were 1A, 12A, 27A, 29A perhaps the last of these for my COD. I’d have preferred ‘Mountain for which’ or ‘For this mountain’ in 7D, but it was one of the first I solved.

    Tom B.

  9. I very nearly completed 21758 just a while ago.

    Time taken: eons? Well, not exactly! The puzzle was reproduced in a newspaper in India today and I took less than 30 minutes for all except two.

    The last one that I couldn’t get was

    1 Run, sometimes with companion (6)

    even though I had every other letter.

    Shuchi has since helped me with that in her Comment on my occasional blog:

    http://dailydozen.blogspot.com/2010/02/ht-times-21758-of-feb-15.html

    Rishi
    in Madras that is Chennai

    1. It would help us if you parsed the whole clue. I’m particularly interested in how your hypothesis accounts for “and runs”
  11. apologies, typo in a rush

    a sweep is a blade in farming, e and r are both cricket abbreviations for runs, extra and otherwise?

    And a mine is “digs” just about?

    1. Collins has your farming version of “sweep”, so that part works. But no, a mine isn’t “digs”, though it might be “diggings”. I can’t find dictionary support for e=extras. As r=runs on its own, even if e=ectras worked, there would need to be an indication that two lots of runs were involved.
  12. In the online puzzle I printed (12:12 GMT) the clue for 2 reads: One removing bombs digs, lifts blade, and runs. That explains the reversal of epee but there’s nothing to indicate the w. I have to confess when solving having got mines, epee, runs and the def I just threw it in without noticing that the w was hanging spare.

    Anyhoo, 25:34 so on the harder side of average but by no means a beast so I think Peter’s time must have been compromised by the lateness of the hour. That said I got on the setter’s wavelength early on which may have helped.

    A most enjoyable puzzle with some cracking clues and devices. A couple of cups for bra made me chuckle.

    1. 2D: It lookis as if the revision of the clue has fixed one problem but creates another – xwd ed duly informed, so we may see a third version.
  14. I did this quite quickly apart from Slovenia where I needed dictionary assistance. I thought that the unjustified padding of “to behold” made the clue a bit unfair but then I would wouldn’t I?
    1. I don’t think the Times does indirect abbreviations like this except for a few like p = piano = quiet, where “piano” every time would be a giveaway.
  16. Not easy, but this is by far the best puzzle in a long time in my opinion, with some terrific clues. It’s a pity about the apparent error in 2d, but it didn’t really hold me up.

    SWISHED was a guess. I didn’t really see the role of ‘whistling’. The NE corner was very tough, and I’m not sure that I have it all right. I entered FOR ONCE for 8d and DISTAFF for 5a, giving me D_S_ for 5. I entered DISH, which fitted ‘Scotch’ as a definition, but I was very uneasy about it since I couldn’t see the wordplay. I lost track of time, but certainly at least 45 minutes.

    1. 5 is DASH – triple definition – dawdlers wouldn’t/touch (small amount)/scotch(put an end to).

      Thanks to anon & Chris – W for and seems to be the intention at 2d.

  17. I made a real slog of this and finished in just over 30 minutes, DASH the last in of all things.

    I thought the setter was going to get a double pangram in, but it appears there’s a second J missing.

  18. The bulletin board says that there was a ‘compiler error’ in the original clue, and that the online version has now been corrected.

    Still not sure about ‘and’ indicating ‘w’.

    Paul S.

  19. I got DASH for5d, something dawdlers wouldn’t do, and maybe a small amount of Scotch? I also thought DISTAFF for 5a but cannot justify it totally. Another puzzle completed without aids but nearly 2 hours! However a lot more satisfying than the run of relatively easy ones.
  21. Excellent puzzle, as all have said, spoilt by a misprint in the printed version. The online version of 2 dn – “One removing bombs, digs, lifts blade, and runs” – makes it clear beyond dispute, I would have thought, that most of us are right in thinking that the reversal indicator for EPEE was simply left out in the paper puzzle. None of the other (albeit imaginative) explanations based on the printed version make much sense to me. Pity. Otherwise Lots of first-rate stuff, with some extraordinarily ingenious wordplay – e.g. KOOKABURRA, DAIQUIRI and DUNFERMLINE. I got SWISHED without fully understanding how it worked, and am happy to accept Jimbo’s explanation, though “shaken with whistling” as the definition is pushing the outer boundaries of wackiness even by the standards of this mind-bending puzzle. I too have DISTAFF at 5 ac, but can’t explain all of it. Any ideas welcome. Around 45 mins for me – Peter B X 2, which I reckon was pretty good for this puzzle.
    1. I can explain distaff if you reciprocate on daiquiri which I put in based on def, checkers and DA for lawyer.

      I didn’t fully understand distaff untill post solve but its ID (identity papers) reversed, plus man (verbal, to staff) and a double definition (a stick/female).

      2. Many thanks for the DISTAFF explanation. You will by now have seen Peter B’s blog on DAIQUIRI – but, for the record, it’s DA plus the internal letters (contents) of [l]IQUI[d] and [d]RI[p]. Both top-hole clues.
  22. 23:59 .. Good stuff. I didn’t look closely enough at 2d to notice the problem. Ignorance, as ever, is bliss. My main problem was with DAIQUIRI – one of those words I can never remember how to spell – and it took a long time to realise that the contents of ‘drip’ came into it in addition to those of ‘liquid’.

    Last in SWISHED; COD DUNFERMLINE (for that ‘not like cats’=unfeline)

  23. No time recorded, but well over the hour. Last ones in were 6 & 12, and I only got them because I was trying to put Vs in them to complete the pangram! Although I still don’t understand SLOVENIA – is there a word for scruff that I don’t know?

    Some excellent wordplay in many of the clues. It’s hard to pin down a COD from so many contenders. I particularly loved NIL, KOOKABURRA & DAIQUIRI, but I think UGH takes it for the ‘pair before I’ construction.

  25. Apologies for the errors in 2D – which was definitely my COD (!). A salutary lesson that correcting one aspect of a clue (as we did in this case, twice!) can lead to taking one’s eye off the ball elsewhere.
    I seem to remember that this puzzle was indeed a double pangram originally but we decided JEERA was a bit obscure so IRENA agreed to step in at the last minute, bless her, after a bit of a REJIG
    1. Confused of Princes Risborough writes:

      In the new version of 2D, is “and” intended to indicate the W by way of and=with=W? I thought this would be a step too far in the Times puzzle.

      As there are no 5-letter answers in this puzzle, I think you must be remembering a different puzzle when talking about JEERA and IRENA.

  26. Me and my colleague did not know about epee reversal so decided that blade=oar=sweep reference worked for us.
    Regards.
  27. A brief congratulations to the setter. I struggled through this one, aware of the brilliance despite being clinically brain dead.
  28. Very enjoyable puzzle, tough, 50 mins. SE corner hardest for me. COD EARWAX, also esp liked HEMLOCK, BUSY LIZZIE, XMAS, UGH, KOOKABURRA, SQUEAL. Did not fully understand DAIQUIRI, DASH till coming here.
  29. Peter, at 5D it’s 3 definitions 1=dawdlers wouldn’t 2=touch (as in a dash of or touch of) 3= scotch as in kill off. I think Penfold first entered this into the blog

    At 20D I thought a woman’s dress can swish but agree it’s a bit of a stretch.

    MINESWEEPER seems to have caused total chaos. Can we ask folk who make very welcome suggestions as to parsing to parse the whole clue not just stick in phrases like “a sweeper is an oar”

  30. A tough puzzle with some excellent clues. Felt frustrated & aggrieved at not completing the north-east corner. Had SHOWBOATER for 10 across; seems to fit the clue perfectly; so without questioning this the others unsurprisingly failed to materialise. Even fitted nicely with WAS ONCE at 8 down! Very impressed with HEMLOCK, HANGMAN, KOOKABURRA and TALONED. Thought v=see and Lizzie for diminutive ruler stretching the boundaries
  31. An enjoyable struggle taking just over 50 minutes. The NE corner was my main problem area.

    I noticed the inverted (or perhaps univerted EPEE) but just thought it a rare error. Went through ON FORM and ON SIDE before settling for ON SONG.

    Liked EARWAX, KOOKABURRA and TALONED in particular, but overall this was a better and more satisfying challenge than some recent puzzles.

  32. Congratulations Peter Biddlecombe et al for the excellent website that is Times For The Times. Being able to discuss the day’s crossword (the world’s greatest puzzle) with like-minded individuals gives me as much(maybe more)pleasure as solving itself. Chris Marr,Sale. Someone PLEASE ask the compiler if W(with =and).
  33. From time to time people on this blog cite “Bradford’s.” I presume that’s a reference to the first book below but please would someone confirm so that I don’t buy the wrong one!

    Bradford’s Crossword Solvers Dictionary
    Bradford’s Pocket Crossword Solvers Dictionary
    Bradford’s Crossword Lists

    Thanks,

    Daniel

  35. Bah, failed on Slovenia. Couldn’t think of a word for scruff at all, and to me a sloven is someone who doesn’t do the washing-up, rather than someone who doesn’t iron their shirts. Oh well, good puzzle anyway, though I was a bit epee’d off about 2 down.
  36. Clue online has now been corrected again to:

    “One removing bombs digs with blade ups and runs.”

    Didn’t feel that this puzzle was as great a leap from recent ones as some people have said, apart from the odd obscure word or two which, on the whole, could be worked out from the wordplay. Thought 1ac was particularly clever.

  37. Fun and tough puzzle for me, about 45-50 minutes. I enjoyed the very inventive constructions here for UGH, DUNFERMLINE (though never heard of it), NIL, XMAS. Not familiar either with the BUSY LIZZIE, WYKEHAMIST or ‘lock’ as ‘forward’, though I now see the explanations here, so thanks for those. Nice job, setter, despite the ‘3rd time’s a charm’ tinkering with 2D. It seems everyone here solved it in whichever form they met it (I had the original version from last night in the US), so no real harm done, I think. The rest of it more than makes up for the small glitch. Regards to everyone.
  38. Well, it certainly generated a lot of comments. I don’t remember seeing 60 before – is this a record?

    As an aside – someone mentioned Minesweeper (the Windows game) in a comment a few months ago. I checked it out and thought my girlfriend would like it. Now I have trouble getting my laptop off her because she’s so addicted to it.

    Paul S.

    1. We’ve had a few second pages (i.e. 50 plus), but I haven’t tried to keep track of a record count.
  39. Oh Dear. My first DNF for a long time. Missed SWISHED which I considered, but rejected as it does not mean shaken, with or without whistling (flourished, waved …). And couldn’t make any sense of 19, mainly because Christmas is very much the high point of our summer.
  40. Andrew k
    didn’t do very well at this one. DAIQUIRI is a very clever clue, but would it have done well in an AZED comp? It reads as IQUI RI on DA (to me anyway).
  41. Enjoyed this a lot, and very pleased to finish in 46 minutes. PBx2 rather than my usual PBx5…things are looking up.

    Didn’t stop to work out all the wordplay, so missed the kerfuffle over MINESWEEPER. Also got to XMAS via the wrong route – I had X as the mark and SAM as the jazz player. Was helped by getting KOOKABURRA pretty quickly, as you would expect for a Sydney solver. I saw three of them recently sitting on a goalpost near my home.

  42. An interesting advantage occurred today for those of us who solve the Cryptic in The Australian newspaper which is published a few weeks later than The Times.
    I refer to the clue for 2 down.
    In the original printed version in The Times, there was no reversal indicator for EPEE. A modification was put up online by the editor which improved the clue but left a “hanging W”.
    Today’s Australian had the clue changed again to the following.
    “One removing bombs digs with blade ups and runs.”
    Perfect IMHO.”
    1. I can’t remember the full sequence of changes, but this is the “correct clue” as given on the crossword club site’s bulletin board.

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