24328 – No relief

33 comments on “24328 – No relief”

1. 9ac: if the church (ch) goes, then a piano (ap) is left.
   That’s the chap?
2. CHAP with CH(church) going (disappearing) produces AP( a piano). And if you like singing hymns, you might want some accompaniment (organ better of course)! What’s the problem?
3. Very much an ouch day for me today.

   Some very inspired / desperate guessing took place. For some reason I had trouble spotting the anagrams.

   Too much of ‘take word a add word b divide by the word you first thought of’ for me on this one.

   Did not like ‘churchgoing’, any answer where the solving has to be debated is not a good clue in my opinion. Or is that just because I enjoy the “do’h, of course” moment?

   W

4. Took so long I forgot when I started. At the end I had so many possibles I just wrote them all in and they seemed to fit. Took me another half an hour to work out CHURCHGOING. I’m glad 16d wasn’t BUTCHERS. Next time it might be. COD to DOUBLES
5. Oh Hell. Got totally screwed up and didn’t record my time. About 40 min I think, but with a number of answers entered just because that was all they could be. CHURCHGOING is pathetic/brilliant (tick one). Got totally derailled by DOUBLES, because it looked to me as some sort of a play on DOUBTLESS (What is evident) Damn! Am not sure whether this puzzle is sensationally good, or is a dog. I shall fret long into the night. (Unless the wine works)
   1. woof
6. Never understood ‘churchgoing’, ‘doubles’, but actually found ‘oncost’ the most objectionable. While there are lovers of the arts, and lovers of the sciences, I don’ think there is anyone who loves accounting.

   I had only heard of ‘capercaillie’ because I have one LP by the Scottish folk-rock group of that name, but it seemed likely enough.

   I actually got the bottom half in decent time, about 30 minutes, but the top was really tough. I hesitated a long time over ‘light’ before deciding it could refer to a person, and I was slow to get the trick that ‘two or three, perhaps’ is ‘prime’. Even worse, I didn’t even read to clue to the obvious 4 down until well into the second hour. That was enough to give ‘churchgoing’ and start to crack the final corner.

   My COD is 16 down, ‘Schubert’, such a cleverly disguised literal, and a difficult anagram too.

   1. For the record, ONCOST is in my newly acquired SOED as a now rare Scottish word meaning just what one would expect. Its derivation is Late Middle English so it’s not business-speak as I had imagined.
7. Didnt understand Doubles until i came here nor salter although i figured that was the answer, As for churchgoing well that i think is a clever clever clue…too clever for me.again i could see that was the answer to the defintion lover of hyms etc etc.
   Agree that Scheubert was brilliant and i too struggled to see the anagram part for chairperson
   anyway took around 90 minutes and i was pleased to finish.
   Harder than yesterday imho!
   Badluck to jackt having to blog this!
   Very very tough
8. 13:10 here, though done in a slowish way. Having just bought a new camera (Panasonix FZ38) I decided to try its film-making capabilities and filmed myself doing the puzzle as a sample, so there is some chat which slowed me down by maybe a minute. Currently being uploaded to youtube but this seems to take an absolute age so I’ll pass on a link later. You’ll be able to enjoy the sight of me looking and sounding fairly dense! Initially writing CAPERCAILIESS didn’t help.
   1. I had a similar experience Pete when I bought a cheap camcorder which came with YouTube uploading software built into its video editing software. It took well over an hour to upload a 5 minute clip.

      I’d guess that in your START> ALL PROGRAMS> ACCESSORIES> ENTERTAINMENT path you’ll have Windows Movie Maker. As well as being able to specify the size of the output file, you can then upload it to YouTube via YouTube itself, i.e. do it online – much, much quicker.

      Very much looking forward to your link!

      PS: Haven’t attempted today’s yet. Spent ALL of this week setting a crossword that’s going to pay £100 – a desperate struggle and I don’t think my brain can handle a solve just yet!

      1. Thanks – I’ll certainly be having a look at WMM.
9. Another grim day for me – even worse than yesterday. Had 13 answers in after about 45 mins, so gave up and resorted to aids. Finished it this way in just over an hour. Wasn’t on the setter’s wavelength at all.

   Lots of good clues, although some a little too clever for my liking. COD to PRIMEVALLY, but many other contenders.

10. Not many posts today, is everyone still doing it? I got 4 answers in 20 minutes this morning so I decided life was too short and went about my daily chores while trying to get the rest of the answers in my head. Only six hours later I finished. I cannot say this was an enjoyable experience: very, very difficult and, unlike yesterday, not very entertaining. I finished with Oddment, Salter, Doubles and Churchgoing, the latter pair without understanding the wordplay. Thanks Jack, you deserve a transfer to another day.

    Now I understand it, I agree with both factions in the rubbish/brilliant debate over churchgoing. The wordplay is brilliant but the definition is rubbish.

    Beginners’ corner: On days like today, I go back over the clues after I have finished and underline the definitions. This re-emphasises to me that, if only I had not been so stupid I could have got the answer from the definition which is invariably the first word, or phrase, or last word, or phrase of a clue. The only difference I notice on difficult days is that more of the definitions are phrases: “Having a liking for hymns…”, “When there may be poetic red sky…”, “Creator of the Times Two clues…”, “Famous man behind bars…” etc.

    I shall look forward to watching Peter solve this in 13 minutes. Could be a new series on BBC4.

    1. Good spot about the definitions and the extra difficult when they’re long phrases. But be aware that “invariably” is not quite right – defs in the middle are occasionally possible.
       1. You are right, of course. That was just sloppy writing on my part. I meant to say almost invariably. There were a couple of examples only last week where the definitions were disguised by being preceded by dubious prepositions.
          1. Fair enough. I was sloppy there too, intending to write “difficulty”.
11. I’m quite surprised that this has caused so much angst. It’s a good puzzle yes with some smooth surfaces and good definitions but let’s not turn it into a monster. 30 minutes to solve.

    A “leading light” is a person of authority. The definition “having a liking for hymns” is perhaps a bit weak but combined with an answer starting C-U-C- should give a reasonably strong hint. Some of it is rather easy: ODDMENT; UPTHRUST; GREENFLY; and so on.

12. 16.25. So in my book easier than yesterday but still fairly difficult. I normally think of CAIPERCAILLIE with a Z in place of second L but fortunately the wordplay kept me right. Would never have seen the wordplay to 9 so every sympathy with Jack. Liked the SCHUBERT clue. Famous man behind bars! Also liked 2.
    This was a slow one to start but improved as I went on , unlike yesterday which was an enjoyable slog.
    Very good and challenging pair of puzzles to end the week
13. i found this more difficult than yesterday but importantly much less fulfilling. 1d, 2d, 9a and 11a were all unsatisfyingly difficult, though 16d schubert was worthy of yesterdays puzzle.
14. I’m with those who found this tough, not quite as tough as yesterday’s, but less enjoyable. About 40 minutes for all but CAPERCAILLIES, which I had to look up, so didn’t finish without aids. ONCOST is also an unknown, and I think obscure. I also didn’t suss the DOUBLES or CHURCHGOIING wordplay til reading it here. Overall, then, a bit of a mess. COD : SCHUBERT. Regards.
    1. Funny what a collection of Britfolk can do for solving, eh? If you Google ‘Capercaillie’, you will find more sites about the group than the bird.
15. 
    Cracking crossword: took me about ninety minutes (without aids)! However, not helped by puting “honeymoon” at 15d: end of story/sweetness and light seemed spot on, ignoring, at my peril “we’ve heard”.

    Anyway, very much enjoyed it. Thanks, Jack, for what must have been a very difficult blog. Well done!.

    JamesM

16. You can now see them on my Youtube channel

    1. Fascinating movie starring PB. Certificate X for setter.
       2 hours with dentist who spent much of that time on 1 extraction. An hour or so into the session, sweat pouring from his brow and gasping for breath, he just about managed to utter “the rest of that’ll have to come out on its own”.
       So, back home to the crossword. How to describe my attempt? Oh! just read above paragraph again.

       Well done again Jack.

    2. Your order of solving was most interesting. It is similar to mine, except you got most of the NW corner in the middle, whereas I was stuck to the end.

       My vid would be like one of those Yoko Ono things where nothing happens for hours. I also tend to solve in a much more relaxed posture.

17. Didn’t get to do this until this morning, but crawled home in 22 minutes, at least 5 of them trying to unscramble the anagram at 17 (astonished to find I’d gone for the right combination). Didn’t get DOUBLES, but like it now I’ve seen it, and there’s a repeat of the “word meaning this added to the answer gives a new word” wordplay. I wonder if this was one of the changes Anax mentioned recently?
    1. Shh. Can’t say a word about changes – but I very much doubt we’ll be inventing new clue-writing rules ;o)

       All that’s happened here, I think, is the use of a device you don’t see very often. But I’m speaking out of my trousers here – haven’t tackled the puzzle yet.

       1. If you tell me, you have to kill me, eh? Sounds like a mercy killing to me!
18. 12 across DESTINED, but why does TIN = collect money? Today felt like one of those days at Bletchley Park after the codes had been changed.
    1. “collect” is the container word to show that TIN (money) goes inside DES+ED
19. Many years ago I had to present to the board a proposal the figures for which included some staff salary estimates. One director looked at me hard and asked if the salary costs included oncosts. I had no idea what he meant, so just said “yes” and hoped.
20. I found this one rather a slog, after a while left it and finished it in bed last night. No complaints, a worthy contribution, just hard work and somehow could not relate to it as well as yesterday’s.
    Credit to both bloggers, George & Jack, for coping with two tough assignments

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