24140 – wrong numbers …

When I solved it, the online version had botched enumerations (answerlengths in brackets) in most of the on-line down clues. The clue numbers are correct, and only 13D turned out to be a multi-word answer – (4,5).

Solving time: 10:20, probably worth 10:00 for the newspaper version

Across
1 NUGATORY – “new”, T.A. rev. in GORY
5 A,M.B.,LED – a reminder that doctors are more often Bachelors of Medicine than DRs or GPs.
9 MACKINTOSH – (mink coat’s)*,H
10 GANG,LION – a “swelling” as it’s a cluster of nerve cells, often forming a swelling on a nerve fibre. Insect nervous systems often have several ganglia.
11 SUPPLY – two defs, one an adverb
12 TOLL – two defs, one a verb
14 KIDNAPPING – AND rev. in KIPPING
17 REMORTGAGE – (got a merger)*
20 SEA,R – nice use of burn = stream in surface reading
23 TUCSON = (no scut) rev. – a scut is a short tail, of a rabbit or similar
24 A,TOMB,OMB=mob*
25 DRAW A BLANK – 2 defs, one ref SCRABBLE®
26 (w)ILL
27 TRIP,LE
28 HEL(SINK)I(port)
 
Down
1 N,AVI(G)ATOR
2 GRAP(h),NEL=Len rev. – an ‘anchor’ to provide purchase when climbing with a rope – illustrated here
3 TEMPLE – 2 def’s, plus a nod towards William Temple, who succeeded yesterday’s Cosmo Lang as Archbishop of Canterbury (or his father Frederick). Easy meat for me as the C of E grammar school I attended had houses named after Temple and his successor Fisher, who’s now due for tomorrow’s puzzle.
4 RECKONING – 2 defs
5 A(MNE=men*)SIA – a fugue is a loss of awareness of your identity, often associated with departure from your usual environment. And the completion of a three-clue stretch for the wordplay surface meaning, a stunt seen more often at the Guardian.
6 BLOW PIPES, ref. the wooden folk flutes that Pan played.
7 EC(HEL)O,N – Hel is a Norse goddess who governs the underword of the same name.
13 LOOK SHARP – LO, shark* in Po rev. Or shark* in pool rev. as kurihan and linxit point out – probably the wordplay the setter intended, as “water => Po” is weak.
15 NIGHT,MARE – for US solvers puzzled by the surface, Black Horse is a fairly common pub name.
16 G(A,RIBALD)I – I thought of him as political but wiki has him down as military too.
18 ECU,ADOR(e)
19 TINWARE = (in water)*
21 EMOTION – TOME rev.,ION
22 S,MOKES – “weed” being tobacco (informal)

48 comments on “24140 – wrong numbers …”

  1. Thanks Peter. Once I noticed the botched enumerations I didn’t even bother with it. I’ll go back to it now and have a crack.
    1. The clue numbers are correct in every case – it’s the enumeration that’s wrong from the last across clue to the penultimate down one.
      1. I still get the usual “run time error; do I want to debug?” messages because the adblocker has deleted a slice of javascript definitions, but these don’t seem to prohibit further progress. I can now freely open and close all windows without being logged out and can actually properly log out when I choose to, which previously was not possible. I have no problems with the PLAY button. I’m sorry I can’t help you on the Gif89. My adblocker has various knobs which can be twiddled to lessen its effectiveness. Can you play about with yours, or turn it off completely for the Crossword Club site as an interim (or permanent) measure?
  2. I thought we were back to the heady days of Araucaria inviting us to fit the answers in where we may. Actually the down clue lengths as given are for the clue below, except for the last, which is possibly for tomorrow’s 1Ac. Fortunately it was quite easy and no great harm was done.

    I received a nice pro forma reply from the Times today in response to my informing them that they had somehow equated the Times Jumbo with the Times2 Jumbo in their archives. Their solution actually referred to the 404 problem I had yesterday but didn’t report. (Very prescient of them.) As I suspected, it appears you could indeed get redirected to the cached 404 upon retrying the site, even if the site is by then operational. On the plus side, my adblocker no longer seems to aggravate the site.

  3. An easy, bland puzzle rather enlivened by having first to solve the clue length conundrum. Tony Server will look at 3D to 5D and have a nostalgic moment as this type of structure used to appear in the Times circa 1950s-1960s, these days as Peter says more common in the Guardian. An unusual meaning of “fugue” at 5D, which I guessed and then verified. About 20 minutes to solve.
  4. Huge accessing problems. Given up temorarily.
    Mention of Araucaria reminds me-does anyone know if the 1 Across subscription crossword booklets are still being printed? Have not heard of them for years now.
    1. Yes, I still subscribe to 1 Across. 5 or 6 thematic blocked (occasionally barred) puzzles a month, at least two of which are by Araucaria.

      Currently £28 a year for UK subscribers. For full details and a free sample issue write with a C5 (6.4″ x 9″) SAE for reply to:

      1 Across
      The Old Chapel
      Middleton Tyas
      RICHMOND
      North Yorkshire DL10 6PP
      United Kingdom

  5. 15 min, is spite of the cock-ups with the answer lengths. No great plusses or minuses (or pluses or minusses or …).
  6. A 404 needing reboot yesterday and cocked-up clue enumerations today! My lifelong exhortation to editors is-check, check, check again, then supervise. But at least there are no spelling errors or split infinitives today (so far)…
  7. Not much to add really. I had to check “Hel” and “fugue” (in that sense).

    At 13dn I thought the “rising water” was POOL rev. It deprives “see” of much significance, but I thought PO = water was a bit loose.

    1. About 12 minutes for me (solved in the paper, so no messing with incorrect enumerations). I also thought 13D was (shark)* in POOL rev. I assumed “see” was just a filler word, as “find” is also used occasionally.
    2. I think “pool” is the correct wordplay. If it’s not then the “in” doesn’t work.
      1. If you read it as “See, (shark swimming in rising water)” then the shark* is still in “rising water” = the river Po, rev. The things that arguably don’t work are {see = Lo!} and {water = Po}.
        1. So it is! Brain not in gear. Isn’t Lo = See a standard crossword usage? I remember learning it years ago in the Telegraph and assumed they all do it.
          1. Reading “see” as an imperative, it probably is – I must have thought of it for a reason. (And Collins has “interj.look! see!” as the def. for lo, so it’s sound.)
  8. There is plenty of evidence of poor management.

    A Mephisto puzzle recently had a whole clue missing whilst the instructions for submitting the puzzles were not updated for 8 consecutive weeks. On one occasion the wrong setter name was given.

    The daily cryptic, instead of having a sensible mix of complexity has runs of easy puzzles and runs of hard puzzles. Today the clue lengths are all misplaced.

    As to the website – it staggers from one cock-up to another.

    1. The most annoying thing about the various cock-ups in the on-line puzzles is that the versions printed in the paper, which have been checked very thoroughly, MUST be supplied to the computerized type-setting process as some kind of computer file. The HTML and other files used to produce the on-line versions are, of course, just other computer files. It MUST therefore be possible for some programmer to sit down and write a program that will produce the on-line files from the print version file. Once this program works right, it will continue to work right until the next online format change.

      But instead, it appears that every day someone has to do manual typing from a paper copy of the print version. Not surprisingly, they sometimes make mistakes – possibly because they only get this version with a few hours left before the on-line version needs to be ready.

      The issue of easy and difficult runs of puzzles is a different one, as it’s something that the crossword editor could in principle do something about [he’s told me many times that he has very little control over the web site]. But we’ve seen many times from comments that one person’s easy puzzle is another person’s hard one. Accurate assessment of every puzzle’s difficulty would require test-solving by a group of solvers, after all the other editing. I honestly don’t believe that the smoothing-out of difficulty you might achieve would justify this effort. There are already steps in place to ensure that you don’t get the same setter or the same grid too often, and these help to smooth out difficulty over each month.

  9. 25 minutes. It would have been less had I not been temporarily thrown by those inaccurate clue lengths. Since I’d already entered NAVIGATOR without thinking about length I knew that the clues were right(unlike Saturday’s Jumbo, which was a diabolical mess). Straightforward puzzle, though I had to pray that TUCSON was correct. My alternative choice would have been BUTSON, but SCUT was a better choice than STUB for ‘tail’. AMNESIA was no problem, as I had seen the definition of fugue in Chambers earlier today.

    I rather liked the anagrams in 9 and 17 and the clue for BLOWPIPES. I was less keen on ‘becomes’ as a link word in 20. Cryptically, river joining the ocean becomes burn, not the other way around.

  10. 13 minutes including realising the numbers were wrong, going back to my office, logging back into the CC, seeing it was still wrong, looking in my history for the backdoor method, realising I had cleared my history this morning, coming onto this site to see what was occurring and inadvertently seeing the answer to 1ac, so call it what you will! Was it worth the effort? Probably not – a bit lacklustre all round and nothing to make me smile or exclaim “a-ha!”. Still, at least we weren’t required to know the first name of an old archbishop.
  11. also can refer to a cystic tendon-sheath swelling, most commonly in the wrist, more familiar to many than the neural ganglia.
  12. Although a member of the on-line Club (mainly for Race the Clock Times 2 and early access to The Listener) I tend to use the paper version for the Times cryptic, so didn’t have the problems that most other posters seemed to have had.

    25:56 for me with the bottom half proving more intractable than the top half. Didn’t fully understand the wordplay on ECHELON whilst solving. I thought for a long time that I was looking for the name of an international airport in 28 across. I had never heard of GRAPNEL, but it couldn’t really have been anything else.

  13. Today is the first anniversary of my first comment on TFTT which is worthy of more note than today’s puzzle (about 25 minutes, slowest in NW corner).

    So a big thank you to the bloggers and commenters on here who’ve got me from a point where I’d never solved the Times cryptic in under half an hour and usually failed miserably to solving it correctly nine times out of ten and generally in less than 25 minutes with a fastest time of 8:24.

    Thanks also to real life mate 7dpenguin for persuading me to try the crossword every day and telling me about this site and to Peter for his impeccable moderation skills.

    Quite apart from the site’s usefulness for improving one’s skills it’s a rich source of enjoyment in itself, with the likes of koro and the lovely Sotira always sure to raise a smile.

    1. Happy anniversary penfold – are you going to get your mind round Mephisto in the next 12 months?
    2. And many happy returns to you Penfold! Thanks for the kind words. I’m not sure I should be encouraged (don’t all jump in at once!). I finally got your joke about Anita Harris, by the way. I had to google the Harris bit, because it was a bit esoteric for an Austalian audience. I’m surprised it hasn’t been further abstracted to Rolf, or has it already?
  14. 15:55 – with clue enumerations by the former CEO of Northern Rock.

    On the easy side, but some smart clues. I enjoyed Pan’s pipes and the foulmouthed Italian soldier (anyone else remember Alexis Sayle on revolutionary biscuits – “you’ve got your Garibaldi, your Bourbon and let’s not forget your Peak Frean’s Trotsky Assortment”?).

    5d was familiar from American crime shows, wherein “fugue state” is sometimes offered as an alternative to the Twinkie Defence.

    COD 16d GARIBALDI

  15. 14 minutes, after a few minutes wondering what to do with those down entries, did myself in for a little while by having CHARNEL in at 2 down although I knew it wasn’t right. SMOKES from definition, GRAPNEL from wordplay (after seeing NUGATORY).
  16. An interesting puzzle! In their defence I remark that they actually had all the right enumerations, but not necessarily in the right order 🙂

    I thought 13dn was loop reversed, the ingenious lo and po thing did not occur to me..

    I find that yesterday and today I have not been able to use the traditional “back door method.” Is this url still working for anyone else? So hard sometimes to work out if it’s my browser, or the site itself..

    1. Old back door not working for me either which is annoying because I can’t now print the puzzle on a single side of A4. Can anyone suggest a solution?
      1. One page printing: I can only suggest what they suggest, on the Bulletin page – use IE7 or Firefox 3, or fiddle with font sizes if you have to use IE6.

        The backdoor seems to be on the way out – it works for some old puzzles, but not for ones in the last 6 months or so (I’ve only tested a few puzzles). You can still save a URL that you can tweak in a similar way, but it will only work when you are logged in. Unless you’re using many URLs at a time, the Club’s lists of puzzles and search facility seem much more convenient than URL-hacking, but the URL details are given below.

        In the long run, I think the removal of the back door is a GOOD THING, because if the back door isn’t available, customers who can’t get through the front one will be more likely to complain, and they’ll have more obligation to fix the access issues. Plus of course you now know that it’s worth paying the subs and people can’t freeload the puzzles.

        Today’s puzzle is http://crosswordclub.timesonline.co.uk/crossword/print?type=1&number=24140. You can change ‘print’ to ‘play’ if you prefer to solve online (not available for Mephisto, Listener, or TLS Acrostic). The ‘type’ numbers available are 1=Times cryptic (weekday), 2=Times2 Concise, 3=Sat prize cryptic, 4=Jumbo cryptic, 11=Sunday Times cryptic, 12=ST Concise, 21=Club Monthly cryptic, 36=Bank hol. Jumbo, 38=T2 Jumbo, 39=TLS, 45=BH T2 Jumbo, 50=Mephisto, 51=Listener, 52=TLS Acrostic. As far as I know, you must now specify the puzzle number rather than the date, and as before, you have to know which of the numbers will work with each type.

        1. But as you can see Peter, that link has timed out.

          The “back door” has saved my sanity on many occasions when all else failed. I should be really sorry to see it go. I don’t agree at all about there being any direct link between the volume of complaints and the efficacy of the website’s efforts…

          The back door worked on Monday; it is only yesterday and today that I cannot make work.

          1. All links to club pages time out if you haven’t used the club pages for a while. The time limit seems to be short (maybe 30 mins, maybe 10 but I’m guessing). It’s annoying but presumably done so that Fred can’t use his log-in to let everyone at the office print their own copy of the days puzzle with a single log-in.

            It’s very hard to assess how big the log-in problems are at the moment – there are clearly people who can’t get in, but the ones who can’t will always say more than the ones who can, and not everyone says clearly what they’ve done to try to fix the problem. If it’s clear that the problems are still continuing in a few day’s time, I’ll try to find some way of assessing the size of the problem.

  17. Took 75 minutes and I needed to look things up in books much less than usual. So good result for me and therefore an easy puzzle. The anagrams came very quickly which was pleasing. I got echelon from wordplay / guesswork alone. Norse gods are not my specialism. Although I got reckoning I was not convinced by this clue. Amnesia is not a fugue – although amnesia is a common feature of a fugue state. I wont quibble, though, as this was another clue I solved early on (anything I can solve is fine by me).
    COD for me was 2 down.
    Fran L-P
  18. Hello all. About 25 minutes, but would have been quicker had I not first entered ‘blow horns’ instead of ‘pipes’ in the Pan clue. So pretty easy, agreed, despite having to ignore the fouled up length indications. When done, I searched for some clever pattern in the incorrect lengths to see if there might be some playful message hidden in there. Alas, I’m unable to spot any such nugget. Just bad editing, apparently. I did enjoy GARIBALDI, though. Regards everybody.
  19. I have deleted cookies.

    When I use IE 7:
    I get and error message GIF89a? when asking for the interactive puzzle.
    Prints on 1 page.
    Will not remember password.
    Quick

    With Firefox:
    Interactive OK.
    Prints on 1 page.
    Remembers password.
    Slow.

    This means that the print formatter is not throwing an extra page skip with IE, so if the puzzle will not print on one page, it must be a print overflow problem related to the different Header/Footer layouts. Presumably it could be fixed by changing some of the defaults for the printer type, of for the browser. I will have a quick dig around, but don’t hold your breath.

    Anyone else have any suggestions

    1. I can’t reproduce your IE7 problem here. It might be worth using Google to search for “Internet Explorer 7” and the error message you get.

      On the printing, I honestly doubt that you’ll get much improvement on the club’s recommendation which I’ve quoted already in comments on this page.

  20. If everyone would post their printer make/model, and whether or not they are having a problem we may get a quick AHA!

    Lexmark X5470 no problem.

    1. I don’t think we’ll get any benefit from this information UNLESS there are people printing from IE7 or Firefox 3 and getting multiple pages for the daily cryptic. As far as I can tell, the multiple page printing problem only affects users of other browsers such as IE6. (The 3-page print for the current Listener puzzle seems to have a different cause.)

      So please only start listing printers if you can show that the problem actually depends on your printer.

  21. Isn’t there a tense problem with the clue? I would think the logical answer is “blew pipes”.
    1. In response to a question like “What did Pan do?”, I think “(He) blew pipes” and “blow pipes” are both perfectly clear answers.
  22. On the subject of printing, with Firefox 3, which I mainly use – and in fact with any other version of Firefox too – it is very easy to make it print on one page by going to print preview and changing the % to whatever works. I do this with the jumbo to get that all on one page.

    A bigger problem is that they have changed the ratio between the size of the grid and the size of the text, so the default seems to be a huge grid and tiny ariel text. However this too can be corrected, via tools/options/content. Here you can make it display the text in whatever font and font size you want. Having done this (forcing Tahoma 20pt works for me) you would think it would affect all other websites too but so far I haven’t noticed any difficulties. If there are, just check the box (in advanced settings) that allows sites to set their own font.

    In summary, with Firefox at least the user can exert complete control over both grid and font size, with a bit of effort. I would expect the same to apply to IE7 which slavishly copies many of Firefox’s features…

    1. ….answering my own comment, I find that indeed you can do the same in IE7. The font is set with tools/options/general & click “font” button. The “accessibility” button next to it will make the website show your font size not its own preference. Changing the font size seems rather crude in IE, but using view/text size and “larger”, and then about 85% in print preview, will give you everything on one page and about the same grid/text ratio as before. A bit like hard work, but most of this would only need to be done once

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