24067 – Right then

Author   foggywebPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
This is later than I had hoped. I am currently in a rotten mood. A normally one-and-a-half hour car journey took four hours. Then I arrived home to find part of my lounge flooded.

I think this was a fun puzzle. I pencilled in HOLD FIRE at 19A – and looking at the comments it seems I’m in decent company here. Inexplicably I wrote VIRGINAL at 14A and I had even justified the wordplay (can’t see it now, though) – I didn’t spot the error for ages , so the SW took a while to complete.

Most points covered in the first 40 comments below – so I will be brief…

Across

6 S,PARKY – not spunky, then. My granny used to say parky – I’d not heard it for ages.
9 [mi]STRESS
10 L,AUREATE – L=end of NationaL
12 DEAD,W,EIGHT
19 HANG,FIRE
21 SCAREDY CAT – anagram of CARS+CADET+end of lorrY
24 KING,[c]LEAR
27 K,NIGH,T[rapped]
28 STAMPED,E[cuador]

Down

3 EVENING STAR – anagram GAVE+TENNIS+[endeavou]R
4 RES(I,DEN)T
6 SQUAW,K
7 A,PE – weirdly I thought this was A,PE=drill – although earlier I had thought of a drill being an ape and dismissed the thought.
8 KIT,CHE(N)ER
15 INTRODUCE – anagram of REDUCTION – this took me far to long to spot!
17 AN(A)THEM,A
20 AD,VENT

60 comments on “24067 – Right then”

  1. 22 min. A fast start turned into a bit of a slog. 12 Ac and 20 Dn seem a bit slack to me. 6 Dn could raise a smile and is My COD.
  2. 40 minutes today. Would have been under 30 but for my wrong answer at 19 where I wrote HOLD FIRE instead of HANG FIRE. I had considered both early on but picked HOLD on the basis that it might mean a deck of a ship.

    Another very enjoyable puzzle with lots of good and amusing clues.

  3. I frequently seem to have a similar time and report to Jack, and so it was today. I also took 40 mins and had HOLD at 19 until I thought of HANG instead .

    But I also made another wrong choice at 25 with “bar” instead of the obvious GAG (according to Chambers “bar” is a Scottish word for a jest – I don’t have the COED) which held me up for a while.

    I liked 8, as it put me in mind straight away of “Buckingham Palace”. It and a few others (eg 5, 6 and 13) might be a bit tricky for non-British solvers.

    Overall a fun puzzle.

      1. Thanks. PE as DRILL did not occur to me, even though the word was prevalent at school in the early 60s!
        1. A drill is also a type of ape, so I don’t think the P.E. explanation is correct (although it could work as an overloaded triple definition!)
          1. I’d call it a draw – “a, drill” = A,PE and “a drill” = APE seem equally valid given current Times practice on ‘definition by example’.
            1. If people really wanted to get pedantic we could start arguing about whther a drill is an ape or a monkey, and inded whether the two terms are mutually exclusive, but I don’t propose to go there!
  5. About 35′ for me today and like others, I originally had HOLD FIRE. Is the meaning of deck to adorn in this instance, do you think?
  6. Adorn does mean hang here. Hang can mean to decorate a wall with paintings, tapestries etc., as in the above Christmas song.
  7. Not the usual Monday romp, but I finished in 26 minutes. KITCHENER was a wild guess once I had the T and H, but I didn’t tease out the intricate wordplay until the grid was filled. It’s possibly a contender for COD. The cryptic grammar of 21 looks suspect to me. I cannot make it work satisfactorily – the singular present tense of ‘becomes’ seems problematic when used after ‘in’ and when used to indicate the jumbling of two words, CARS and CADET. Am I misreading it? Can someone put me right?
    1. CARS / CADET
      You’re right, the grammar doesn’t quite work. I don’t complain about these slips though; I’ve made them myself a few times. For me, if I’m not prevented from the seeing the answer I’ll give it a gentle tap on the wrist and let it go.
  8. Last week was a bit hectic, with only a couple of puzzles attempted, so I didn’t have great hopes of flying into the speed record books with this one. Just as well, as the biro finally hit the woodwork at somewhere in the 35 minute region.

    It was the NE corner that held me up, the most surprising hurdle being 8D. Although the wordplay elements are identical to a clue of mine that appeared recently, the different (and better, I think) defs applied here really threw me.

    Tougher than usual for a Monday but no somplaints – everything’s very fair and most treatments are satisfyingly imaginative.

    Q-0 E-8 D-8 COD 3D
    EVENING STAR – an excellent example of a clue suggesting a living person but not actually using that person as a definition. For those unfamiliar with Times practice, clues/answers cannot refer to living persons other than the reigning monarch.

  9. 23:37 .. I struggled with this, especially in the Geordie corner – I was still fuzzy-headed from a now rare Bacchanalian Saturday night. Where the heck did my youthful constitution go?

    I’m not a fan of the sort of padding found in 20d, and one or two others just felt vague. Can someone explain the ‘Former’ in 4d? I don’t get it.

    COD 17d

    1. Best reason I can find is that Collins has, as a def. for ‘resident’: Social welfare: an occupant of a welfare agency home. Former name: inmate.
      1. Thanks. That must explain it. But I think that clue is going to leave a few dissatisfied customers, with ‘resident’ itself having so many meanings and there being nothing in the surface to give it context.
        1. True. As far as practical solving goes, I attach prertty low significance to apparent “old word” indicators in daily paper puzzles as dictionaries don’t always agree about which words are old. In the tougher puzzles that use Chambers, they’re much more reliable.
  10. 8.30. Main difficulty was the NE corner where I gave myself a problem by writing in SACK at 16, though I’m being a bit more rigorous these days about only penciling things in very faintly unless I’m pretty certain of them, which minimised the damage.

    I kept thinking that an hour-long TV program called “How to Solve a Cryptic Crossword” must be a practical joke, or else the kind of deeply meaningful title of a drama that you never understand until you eatch it (and frequently not even then). But no, it’s really about cryptic crosswords! Maybe now the BBC are saving a bit of money on Mr Ross’s salary for a few months, we’ll get a weekly series called Gridlock with some nail-biting head-to-head contests between the champion solvers. Actually, current trends probably dictate it would be Celebrity Gridlock. I can’t wait.

    2. jackkt wrote:

      Nov. 10th, 2008 10:19 pm (UTC)
      Re: Former inmate = resident
      Just watched the “How To” programme which perhaps deserves its own thread. I was completely baffled by the section on the redesigned Stanmore station that it is now crossword themed because of its connection with Bletchley Park, code breakers and cruciverbalists. Assuming the people who worked at Bletchley Park wanted to travel there by train they would have been up the wrong branch of the (then) Bakerloo line if they found themselves at Stanmore. Or maybe this was all part of a plan to keep the place secret by deliberately sending them out of their way, but then that might have drawn unwanted attention to the RAF installations at Bentley priory.

  11. At present my normal time for the puzzle is while waiting for my hospital appointment slot. The wait can be anything from about seven minutes upwards depending on how busy they are, but so far I’ve not yet been summoned in mid-solve. Correctly feeling today that I needed to crack on, I got through this in 5:36, including the popular HOLD mistake in my initial answer for 19. Helped by easy clues at 5 and 13, and at 3 by having seen another Venus clue recently (watch out for times when it defines MORNING STAR though).

    In a bit of “ego-surfing” just now, spotted a curious blog posting. I feel kind of honoured to be the subject of such a spoof, though my rock knowledge is too feeble to appreciate which of the other entries in “Electric Roulette” are similar jokes.

    1. You mean it’s not true? That’s a crushing disappointment. I’m just going to believe it, anyway, Peter (or ‘Lord Crypt’ from now on, man).
  12. Yes, also got caught in the HOLD FIRE trap. Apart from that, an easy 30 minutes, which could have been faster if I hadn’t been grappling with a satsuma and apple for the first ten minutes. Only 6ac / 7d caused any real problems, spent too long looking for something with C in it for the former.

    In 4d, does ‘former’ do anything other than improve the surface reading?

    2. I don’t think “former” is padding. The word “inmate” used to apply to e.g. someone in a mental institution, but political correctness identified this as equating to someone being held at Her Maj’s leisure. “Resident” sounds altogether less sinister than “inmate”, so there will be a number of institutions where the word has been changed.
  14. An enjoyable puzzle that seemed easier to start with than it turned out to be by the end. 40 mins for me. Lots of good clues. Like quite a few others I too was held up by entering HOLD FIRE at 19ac, initially reading “deck” in the nautical sense. The penny only dropped when I realised that ANATHEMA had to be the answer for 17dn. I don’t get rosselliot’s objection to 12ac – DEADWEIGHT – which seems to me one of the better clues in a generally good puzzle. I can live with the slight padding(if any)that sotira detects at 20dn – “is good for” can reasonably be read as something like “amounts to”, I would have thought – but I agree in finding no justification for “former” at 4dn. Suggestions anyone?

    Michael H

  15. Oops likewise – I had failed to spot Lord Crypt’s (aka Peter B’s) answer to sotira on 4dn and anax’s subsequent gloss on similar lines before submitting my previous comment. I’m sure you are right guys, but, like sotira, I remain somewhat dissatisfied. Without some indication of the mental institution context, it is fairly obscure. That said, it wasn’t a particularly hard clue to solve even without understanding the role of “former”, so I guess one shouldn’t protest too much.

    Michael H

  16. 19A. I’m glad I’m in good company by first writing HOLD FIRE. I only got HANG FIRE when I failed after three attempts through the crossword dictionary to find any word fitting ?L?T?E?A. Once I got HANG it was easy. I have seen the explanation above for “deck”=”hang”, but it’s too obscure and has obviously caused many people to make the same error.

    20D. Is the answer ADVENT? If yes, I can understand the wordplay, but what is the definition and why is it so long/convoluted?

  17. 6 down is based on an offensive, racist and sexist term that has no place in the Times. I thought I’d seen the end of it.
    1. Interesting summary of the linguistic and historical debate around ‘squaw’ at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaw.

      And a very entertaining, if earthy, consideration at http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2542/is-squaw-an-obscene-insult.

      The word probably has innocent origins, certainly not the ones notoriously claimed on an episode of ‘Oprah’. But usage has given it some very distaseful baggage. The debate goes on. But one thing’s for sure: if you use the word, especially in north America, be prepared to duck.

  18. I had ‘hold fire’ like many others but quickly saw that anathema had to be right. I had never realised that squaw was considered an offensive term. I thought it was actually taken from a native american word for woman.
    6a was my COD – where does parky=cold come from??
    10.07 today
    JohnPMarshall
  19. About 15 minutes altogether here, although that’s just an estimate as I didn’t get time to concentrate on it exclusively today. I also fell into the HOLD FIRE trap, but got ANATHEMA as soon as I looked at it, so it didn’t hold me up for long.

    An alternative explanation for 7D is that a drill is a type of ape anyway, like a mandrill only smaller.

    My COD is 8D, excellent example of “lift-and-separate”.

  20. Looking at the answers to the Jumbo 782, “Dessert gobbled up by the whole class” = Stratum. I am sure I’m missing the blindingly obvious but I can’t see it at all. Help!

    Does anyone anywhere blog the Jumbo? Looking back on this blog I see it was covered at least early this year but I can imagine its a huge task to do on a regular basis.

    IanD

      1. Thanks, guys. And SO obvious once it’s pointed out. Ouch. Now I can be miserable because I do know how it worked…
    2. We do still have a rota of jumbo bloggers but doing a proper report is indeed a big task. (And as the solution must appear nearly two weeks after the puzzle: (a) it’s very easy to forget that it’s your turn, and (b) the level of interest among readers seems to be fairly low judging by the usual number of comments.)

      Edited at 2008-11-10 05:16 pm (UTC)

  21. I “solved” this in no state to be doing anything last night and thus have a wrong answer at 6 (I have SNARKY which made me laugh). 17 very drunk minutes, one even drunker mistake.
  22. Well yes, I suppose this (Song about a leader in Africa is abhorrent) does have to be ANATHEMA. But I fail to see how, apart from the obvious wordplay. ‘Abhorrent’ is an adjective and ‘anathema’ a noun. And if you’re going to say the definition is ‘is abhorrent’, then that leads to a verb.
    1. 13D! (It’s a fair cop). There are times when phrases describing nouns are OK, even for Ximenean setters, but I must admit I struggle to understand exactly what descriptive phrases are allowed.
    2. Quite right. I’m kicking myself for missing that. Though ‘anathema’ is, of course, often used with no article in a way that mimics an adjective, and I believe Robert Burchfield has described it as a ‘pseudo-adjective’, which I guess explains the mistake, even if it doesn’t quite excuse it.
  23. “hold fire” and “hang fire” are not synonymous. A hang fire is where a faulty fuse system causes a delay in the main charge explosion. Apparently the bane of early naval gunnery, where cannon were run inboard for reloading. You most definitely do not want your cannon to fire when back in the ship! For that reason, it was mandated the a cannon was not to be run back for several seconds after a failure to fire.

    A hang fire can still occur with modern weaponry http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-1418296531.html

    PS I see that a finger failure saw 21 Ac rendered as 12 Ac in my earlier post.

  24. I think it is above and beyond the call of duty to endure all that you have had to put up with today, and still find the time and inclination to blog.
    Monday is usually my best chance of making serious inroads on the xword so its also my most important blog-reading day, so particular thanks from me!

    IanD

  25. Sorry for the late entry, a busy day. This took about 30 minutes last night, but I see I have the same error as George- SNARKY-, without the same good excuse. I don’t understand SPARKY either. In fact, I don’t get 5D or 13D , as there seems to be an abundance of UK-centric clues today. Despite that, KITCHENER went in immediately, from the finger-pointing reference. As for ‘squaw’, I am a North American yet I had no idea there was a controversy over this word’s use. So thanks for that warning- although I haven’t noticed anyone using the term in the recent past, except in old westerns. Regards all.
    1. PARKY is Brit. informal for “cold”. At 5D, to ‘hold all the cards’ is to be in a strong position, but I guess you know that bit. A P45 is a PAYE tax form completed when someone stops working for an employer. To be ‘given your cards’ is an older expression for being sacked.

      Finally, “It’s a fair cop” is a stock line for an apprehended criminal admitting guilt. For an example, watch http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8dehAiSJHZM (jump to 2:10 if short of time).

    2. Parky is in common use meaning chilly (similar to nippy). Origin unknown.

      “its a fair cop” is an admission of being caught in flagrante delicto. (Cop here is a verbal noun = catch,nab). Often with slightly arch or comedic intent.

      For P45, think pink slip. (Although they are rather different in that the P45 is also an official employment and taxation record) Being handed your cards means being laid off, and anyone in a position to make that decision holds all the aces (to over extend the metaphor).

        1. Thank you all for the Brit-enlightenment. I do appreciate it. Over here, a P-45 is a WWII US navy fighter aircraft, so I was never going to make the translation to ‘pink slip’ from that. Regards.
          1. Kevin – the two most mournfully celebrated alphanumerics from British bueaucracy are the P45 you get when you’re fired and the UB40 you use to claim unemployment benefit thereafter (hence the band).
        2. OED on PARKY: Origin uncertain. Perhaps < PARKY adj.1 [i.e. like a park], although a connection with PERKY adj. has also been suggested.

          The earliest citations are 1877 for the disease and 1895 for parky (actually parkey), so the disease etymology is possible, though it seems unlikely (the earliest citation for the disease name outside medical literature is from 1950).

  26. Pedantic quibble – P-45 would not have been a navy fighter in WWII, as the US Navy used F as the fighter designation, while the army (and later USAF)used P, (originally meaning ‘pursuit’). P-45 was an Airacobra variant redesignated P-39C. John
  27. I tend to do a few clues at a time then come back to it. Making it a race against the clock detracts from the fun. I hold fire on rushing through my crosswords.
  28. I also had HOLD FIRE at 19a – with deck and hold being a bit nautical – but realised the DECK = HANG connection once 17d ANATHEMA had been sussed.

    There are 12 omissions from the blog so, in case anyone is trawling the back-numbers and is stuck on one of these “easies”:

    1a Look into school subject put to the test (8)
    R.E. SEARCH

    11a One young man turned artist (4)
    DAL 1. 1 LAD backwards.

    14a First said about one form of rummy (8)
    OR 1 GIN AL

    16a Drop to drink (4)
    SINK

    18a This may turn back – correct (4)
    EDIT. TIDE backwards.

    22a I governed Persia some time ago (4)
    I RAN. Alexander is too many letters. Shah is numerically correct but not right otherwise.

    26a Armed guard about to enter vandalised store (6)
    ES C ORT. Could be armed – could be a Ford motor?

    2d Run over (5)
    EXTRA. The statutory Cricket clue.

    5d Be in a very strong position, like an employer with P-fortyfives? (4,3,3,5)
    HOLD ALL THE CARDS. The clue in the online version REALLY DID spell out the 45. I’ve never seen it other than P45 which is what you get when you leave employment. To “get your cards” was to get the sack – your P45 in more modern times. UK centric? Certainly.

    13d Felon’s comment when apprehended by a blonde WPC? (3,1,4,3)
    ITS A FAIR COP. Hmm – slight bit of sexism creeping in? A write in though.

    23d Raised a snooker ball I potted (5)
    A I RED

    25d Censor joke (3)
    GAG

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