Times Quick Cryptic No 2323 by Teazel

Author   TheRotterPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

An interesting puzzle from Teazel which took me 11 minutes and 11 seconds to complete.  The anagram at 12d took a few seconds to resolve itself, but after seeing 1a immediately, I think I was always going to be relatively quick for a Teazel.  My favourite clue was 19a for the triple misdirection.  How did you all do?

Across

  • Fall asleep beside passage, leading to aviation emergency (5-7)

CRASH-LANDING – CRASH (fall asleep) and LANDING (passage, usually the level part at the top of a flight of stairs).  I think it is more usually CRASH OUT to describe falling asleep, but this feels acceptable to me.

8  Step up and look so to speak (5)

STAIR – Homophone clue – sounds like (so to speak) STARE (look).

9  Ran sale to reconstruct team (7)

ARSENAL – Anagram (to reconstruct) of [RAN SALE].

10  Nothing in Washington for one of several small people (3)

DOC – DC (Washington, as in the capital not the state) containing O (nothing).  DOC is famously one of the seven dwarves in the fairy tale (one of several small people).

11  Hut by lake maybe makes clear dividing line (9)

WATERSHED – SHED (hut) alongside WATER (lake maybe).

13  Before Heather, Fred’s first affair (5)

FLING – F{red}’s (first letter) and LING (Heather, one of Crosswordland’s favourite plants).

14  Programmers finally put in extra code (5)

MORSE – {programmer}S (finally, last letter) inside MORE (extra).

16  What, pay another visit? (4,5)

COME AGAIN – Double definition.

17  Ponder endlessly about problem (3)

SUM – MUS{e} (ponder endlessly) reversed (about).

19  Cases in silence put into toboggan (7)

LUGGAGE – GAG (silence) inside (put into) LUGE (toboggan).

21  Tree’s height: in two minds about it (5)

THORN – H(eight) inside TORN (in two minds about it).

22  Ironing gown and formal suit (7,5)

EVENING DRESS – EVENING (ironing) and DRESS (gown).  My first thought was MORNING DRESS, but that clearly didn’t parse, so fell afoul of Rotter’s Second Law – if it don’t parse, it’s probably arse.

 

Down

1  Patient having died put in box (5)

CASED – CASE (patient) and D{ied}.

2  Chairman’s dreadful political doctrine (9)

ANARCHISM – Anagram (dreadfully) of [CHAIRMAN’S].

3  A frustrating repeat but now we leave with a profit (4,2,2,5)

HERE WE GO AGAIN – HERE WE GO (and now we leave) with A (a) and GAIN (profit).

4  Notices about suitable changes (6)

ADAPTS – ADS (notices, advertisements) containing (about) APT (suitable).

5  Disdain metric conversion: was judgemental (13)

DISCRIMINATED – Anagram (conversion) of [DISDAIN METRIC].

6  Perhaps sister is visiting European Union (3)

NUN – Hidden (visiting) in {europea}N UN{ion}.

7  Swear shelf is under pressure (6)

PLEDGE – LEDGE (shelf) under P{ressure}.

12  Choose poor alternative in possibilities for the future  (9)

HOROSCOPE – Anagram (alternative) of [CHOOSE POOR].

13  Too easy to smuggle a chapter into computer record (6)

FACILE – A C{hapter} inside FILE (computer record).

15  Start to cauterise a blood vessel and collapse (4,2)

CAVE IN – C{auterise} (start to) and A VEIN (a blood vessel – this time it isn’t an aorta!).

18  Month in America, or less (5)

MINUS – M[onth} IN (in) US (America).

20  Bloke seen in good sort of light (3)

GUV – G{ood} and UV (Ultra Violet – sort of light).  This may be a bit Brit-centric, GUV is short for Governor, and can be used as a slang term for a man in authority, or a man / bloke in general.

75 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 2323 by Teazel”

  1. Straightforward enough, although LUGGAGE took me some time. I biffed HERE WE GO AGAIN from the H, G; parsed post-submission. 10ac online anyway reads ‘seven’ not ‘several’. And Doc is a Disney dwarf. 6:40.

    1. Interesting! Per Wiki, the dwarves had no names in the fairy tale; were first given names in a 1912 broadway show; and were then renamed by Walt in 1937. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White

      Given that the 1912 names were Blick, Flick, Glick, Snick, Plick, Whick and Quee, I can see why rebranding seemed like a good idea.

    2. I agree that DOC is a Disney invention. I think several for seven was a predictive text ‘fart’. Thanks, and a nice time!

  2. 12:20. Interesting to see AGAIN in two different answers. Started with Dev for the bloke, then Gov, then finally saw the correct
    GUV. Is UV light “good” and for that matter is FACILE “too” easy or just easy? LUGGAGE was LOI and took longest as the definition cases and also silence for GAG were hard for me to crack.

    1. Apologies if I’ve misunderstood you, but G for ‘Good’ is a separate part of the wordplay here, which together with UV for ‘sort of light’ goes to make up the answer GUV. Other than to mislead, the clue is therefore not suggesting that UV light is ‘good’.

      I thought FACILE for ‘Too easy’ was OK. I think of FACILE as a synonym of “glib” which perhaps better conveys the sense of ‘too easy’.

    2. I think you’ll find the G is for good, followed by UV for the light! I must say sitting in the lovely winter sunshine at the moment, I’m enjoying some UV light, good or not 😊

      Sorry – my reply crossed with BR’s

  3. 11’54” for a satisfactory solve that had me bouncing all over the grid. Would have been much quicker if, unlike Rotter, I’d got 1ac as quickly as I should have done, but ‘fall asleep’ = CRASH eluded me for a while.

    I particularly enjoyed LUGGAGE and COME AGAIN and I am strangely delighted that ANARCHISM is an anagram of ‘chairman’s’.

    While I follow the logic of Rotter’s blog on 20d I’m less comfortable than others here with ‘bloke’ as synonym for GUV as I can’t find a sentence where I’d be comfortable dropping one in for the other. I suspect and hope I will be put right at some stage.

    Thanks, as ever, to Teazel and TheRotter.

    1. Guv – presumably for governor is a bit out of date I think but was fairly standard London Eastend English generation ago I’d say. “Is it alright if I leave your stuff here GUV? (instead of Mr, Sir, Old chap etc)” I am hearing Sid James in my mind but perhaps I am getting things mixed up.

      1. Yep, that’s exactly how I understood GUV to be used too. If I switch GUV for “bloke” in your example, I can’t hear Sid James (or anyone) saying it, and that is the cause of my discomfort.

        1. I justified it originally as bloke is informal for man, guv is slang for a man. However, prompted by your reasonable question, I checked my Chambers. It gives GUV as a pilot of a vessel (obsolete Bible), and BLOKE as the commander (nautical slang). Maybe that is where they are synonymous?

          1. And there it is! I KNEW there’d be a source, even if somewhat obscure – thanks for digging it out. I am now fully gruntled and shall continue to use interchangeability as a test pre-biff! Cheers TheRotter, that’s much appreciated.

            1. ‘Guv’ is still very much in use by London taxi drivers – but these days you don’t want to be called it, because it’s very much an age marker, or a perceived age marker at any rate. If the driver thinks you are 50-ish or younger, he will call you ‘mate’; if he thinks you are older, he will call you ‘guv’. They started to call me ‘guv’ about ten years ago 🙁

              1. I ‘ve always thought that GUV is short for governor, another word for chief or boss, all of which terms are still occasionally used as addresses by people who may be doing work for you – “Thanks, chief!”

    2. I agree about the interchangeability though is that the right test? Guv is one way of addressing a bloke. And I suppose you could have “What did the Guv say” for “What did the old bloke say” but it’s a stretch I agree.

      1. Sorry, I replied to your first comment without seeing you’d added another.

        You may be right that interchangeability is not the right test. It’s just frequently been my own up to now, and I’ve seen others here refer to it. I think this is the first time I remember it’s failed for such a clue.

        I don’t know if such rules actually exist or if frameworks and guidelines simply evolve.

        I can’t really complain as it didn’t cost me a ‘complete’

  4. 11:36. The now innocuous looking THORN was the THORN in my side, though looking at it again, it’s not a word that immediately springs to mind for ‘tree’. Not seeing LANDING for ‘passage’ at 1a also meant I was off to a slow start.

    Yes, as pointed out by MangoMan, GUV for ‘Bloke’? Sort of, I suppose.

    Thanks to TheRotter and Teazel

    1. THORN was my LOI as well. I am familiar with Blackthorn and Hawthorn, but would not usually refer to any tree simply as Thorn.

  5. 13 minutes missing my target because the intersecting GUV and EVENING delayed me. Like others my first thought was ‘morning dress’ and I had difficulty thinking past it even though I realised I was looking for a word meaning ‘ironing’.

    I agree with MangoMan over ‘bloke/GUV’ although I should not be too surprised if someone comes up with an example in which they can mean the same.

    I think ‘fall asleep / CRASH’ is okay as I’ve heard people in films or on TV say it.

  6. Knew GUV was right once I got to it but on reflecion I’m sure MangoMan is right. I had been sorely tempted by Gav for the bloke – I knew AV stood for something. Before that I’d flirted with RAY. THORN was my last one in, tricky even with three out of five letters in place for some reason. I was slow on MINUS too but liked it a lot when I got it. All green in 13.

  7. Not Teazel’s most taxing I thought, and all done in 10 minutes. I think Guv is OK, only the other day someone bumped into me and said “Sorry guv”.

    The anarchistic chairman made me smile. I can think of a few I’ve met in my time …

    Many thanks to Rotter for the blog.
    Cedric

    1. A number of my sarf London mates still use GUV frequently and without irony. They wouldn’t say “sorry, bloke” though. Anyway, I’m in danger of overplaying my discomfort for what I genuinely thought was a great puzzle!!!
      Over and out!

  8. 8:55, with quite some biffing (HERE WE GO AGAIN, WATERSHED, EVENING DRESS). Like others, enjoyed the fact that (chairman’s)* == anarchism.
    Thanks, Teazel and Rotter!

  9. Nothing too tricky. Got off to a good start with CRASH LANDING going straight in – its offshoots took a bit longer so worked my way down the grid and came back to them later.
    THORN needed a bit of thought as did the parsing of LUGGAGE, where I spent time trying to work out how ‘gga’ could mean silence before the penny dropped.
    I agree with those querying the guv/bloke synonym – nearly works but I can’t think of a sentence where they’re interchangeable – it’s a small gripe in what was an enjoyable solve
    Finished in 7.27 with LOI CAVE IN.
    Thanks to Rotter

  10. Trotted reasonably steadily through this. Fast start with CRASH LANDING but a slow ending with at least half a dozen refuseniks, mostly in the SE. Eventually I read the HOROSCOPE and the rest followed, with THORN LOI.

    All done in 08:58 for 1.4K and a Decent Day. COD to LUGGAGE.

    Many thanks Teazel and Rotter.

    Templar

  11. I can’t say I found this as easy as one or two bloggers above. I thought it was pretty tricky in parts and, as usual with a Teazel, I needed to start from the bottom to make early progress (but did not see THORN immediately).
    I was intrigued by many of the clues and spent too long on the NW corner at the end – CRASH, CASED, STAIR, DOC (d’oh). I could not get close to rotter’s time and ended up 3 mins over my target.
    I especially liked MORSE, LUGGAGE, and CAVE IN.
    Many thanks to Teazel for a fine QC and to rotter for his usual concise and helpful blog. John M.

  12. I struggled, as I feel I often do with Teazel (though the new spreadsheet tells me 1 on target, 1 under target, and this one over target so far this year). The mean and the median are more than 30 seconds apart at the moment.

    I had to write out the anagrist to get DISCRIMINATED, I’d biffed RAY (which didn’t help), didn’t see the hidden NUN, missed the anagram for HOROSCOPE, and THORN was my LOI, and had me scratching my head. Nothing wrong with the puzzle, just a wavelength thing.

    8:48

  13. Struggled with this today. Cased and especially Guv don’t work for me – it’s a slang greeting maybe, not a way of referring to a man. Thanks though!

  14. 27 mins fully parsed with far too much of that spent on GUV and EVENING DRESS, the latter with only the first three letters required! I didn’t think much of Guv for ‘bloke’ as the former is a form of direct address and the latter a noun.
    Prof

  16. We’re in Northern Essex, completely different from Towie-land, have no problem at all with Guv/ Bloke/ Chap when talking to someone whose name you’ve forgotten.

  17. My run of under target times came to a halt with this one but not too far away at 11.07. I was held up mainly by 5dn and 12dn where in both cases the long anagrammed answers didn’t come easily. A good puzzle from Teazel and thank you Rotter for your blog and your entertaining post submission comments! 😀

  18. 13 minutes today. LOI CASED where I was slow to see the right meaning of patient. I was also slow to get 1a despite having the LANDING.
    I too had to pause over GUV, rejecting Gov; it’s a perfectly good clue IMO.
    I liked the anagram of CHAIRMAN’S but, narrowly, COD to HOROSCOPE.
    David

  19. 7.04

    Interesting comments as some clearly found this harder than others – does knowing who the setter is affect ones time?

    Anyway probably a slightly below average time for me for what I thought was a very nicely constructed consistent and enjoyable puzzle.

    Thanks The Rotter and Teazel

  20. 10.06. I enjoyed this one – some quirky bits of word play made it interesting to solve, and quite a few candidates for COD. I particularly liked WATERSHED and MINUS.
    I initially thought the bloke was a guy (but not a Gary*) – as others have said, I don’t think guv and bloke are fully interchangeable, I wouldn’t say ‘He’s a nice guv’ for instance.
    FOI Doc LOI Thorn CODs Horoscope and Anarchism – brilliant surfaces
    Thanks Teazel and Rotter – your second law made me giggle!

    *Gary Bloke – a Private Eye cartoon character

  21. Very slow. Not my day. Put Gov without thinking, as was so worn out thinking about the rest. Not very enjoyable, for me, at least.
    Liked, sort of, COME AGAIN, EVENING DRESS, HERE WE GO AGAIN.
    Thank you, Rotter.

  22. 21 mins…

    Got there in the end, but it took a while to get going and needed some thought to get a foothold. Overall, I reckon this was of medium difficulty.

    Not sure I’ve seen “Guv” used for “Bloke” in a QC before (although I’m sure it probably has been) and for 10ac “Doc”, I spent quite a while trying to find something to fit in WA. Probably just me, but I found 1dn “Cased” a bit clunky.

    FOI – 6dn “Nun”
    LOI – 1dn “Cased”
    COD – 22ac “Evening Dress”

    Thanks as usual!

  23. 7:31

    As a Saaf-Lahndaner, GUV and BLOKE are built in to the vocabulary – no question marks – helped by entering EVENING DRESS (rather than MORNING, thought ironing = EVENING was not unusual)

    Had a few moments pause with the anagrams – needed all of the crossers before I spotted DISCRIMINATED

    Thanks Teazel and TheRotter

  24. 17:12. slow in seeing CRASH LANDING. Very much like the anagram of chairman’s=anarchism. Probably a chestnut, all of the single word ones have been mined out by now, I expect. But still new to me.

    Odd to see AGAIN crossing with AGAIN. I can’t decide if this is a feature or a weakness.

    I think GUV is a great little endearment. Our American friends don’t use it, in spite of having Governors very much on the political stage. And they do have the majestic “gubernatorial” adjective, from κυβερνήτης” (kubernetes), Greek for Helmsman.

  25. I survived the CRASH LANDING having seen the DOC first, then thought HERE WE GO AGAIN as I popped the EVENING DRESS into my LUGGAGE. I PLEDGEd to FLING the whole ARSENAL at the rest of the puzzle and read my HOROSCOPE just before the WATERSHED at 9:30. Thanks Teazel and Rotter.

  26. Call me pedantic, but I don’t think that ‘guv’ and ‘bloke’ are in any way synonyms. ‘Guv’ is only used as a direct address to somebody, never to reference a third party – you wouldn’t say ‘I saw a guv walking down the road’; ‘bloke’ on the other hand is only used to reference a third party, never as an address – you wouldn’t ever say ‘Hello, bloke,’ to somebody; at best, you would get a quizzical look; say it to the wrong ‘bloke’ and you might get thumped. (Didn’t stop me quickly entering ‘GUV’ as the answer.)

    1. See my (rather oblique) connection in reply to MangoMan above. This appears to be a marmite clue in today’s puzzle, with some seeing no real issue, others taking objection to it.

  27. 5.41. Held up by eight across, stair, where for some reason the word “up” in step up caused me to pursue avenues other than the obvious flight of stairs.

    Thinking more of step up to the plate etc.

  28. Mrs Random and I started and finished at more-or-less the same time, so the big question was had we tied, or might I even have nicked the family point for once. Alas, it was not to be. On comparing notes, I found out that she had first completed Tuesday’s Breadman (11 minutes) before dashing off today’s puzzle (19 minutes). Words failed me at that point.

    I really struggled to get started today. Just one across clue (DOC) and three down clues (DISCRIMINATED, PLEDGE and CAVE IN) in my first pass through the whole grid. This took 12-13 minutes, so I was bracing myself for serious disappointment at that stage. However, my second pass proved more successful and I began to pick up speed. In the end, I was very pleased to cross the line, with all clues parsed, in just 29 minutes.

    BTW: To rub it in, Mrs R has now also just polished off yesterday’s Joker (20 minutes) and has gone into the kitchen to make some savoury biscuits. I can’t keep up.

    Many thanks to Teazel and Rotter.

    1. Unlucky SRC, I was hoping for a point for you when I started reading. Mrs R sounds an impressive woman – you need to up your game!

    2. We do these puzzles together so avoid any comparisons. We do though, have our own ideas about the situation.

  29. 21 minutes. Last couple were 1d and 8a.
    Hesitated with Thorn for tree and paused a moment on Guv for bloke otherwise it just took a while to get the anagrams.
    Thanks all
    John

  30. Perhaps it was because I was too engrossed gobbling my late lunch but this one didn’t flow for me. There was nothing wrong with the QC (except for the getable but not interchangeable GUV for bloke), I just wasn’t giving it my full attention. My FOI was CASED and my LOI THORN. 11 mins.

  32. Very enjoyable puzzle. Solved and parsed (an unusual combination for me) in an hour.
    Spent ages on CASED, STAIR and THORN but they all made sense in the end.
    Must remember Rotter’s Second Law which was usefully applied a couple of times today.

    1. Solved an parsed within an hour would have been cause for wild celebrations by me a couple of years ago. Very well done, Mr V.

  33. How does a three-letter word generate so much dissent?

    If recent TV crime dramas are to be believed, Guv is the universal appelation for a policeman senior to oneself – every time!

    Philip

    1. To be fair, the existence of GUV as a word isn’t in question by anybody, nor its frequent current usage – of which you give another fair example. The debate has been over GUV being used as a synonym for ‘bloke’. Having been the fella/chap/geezer/bloke who started this debate the matter for me is now settled by TheRotter’s response at 9:33 this morning to my original quibble. He points out there why the two words are synonymous, albeit via an obscure nautical connection.

  34. Tricky in places and not sure about THORN being a tree. Took some time over the anagrams too!

  35. Struggled throughout with this. I have lately found Teazel to be pretty tricky so it may be a case of being put off from the word go when I see his/her name. Anyway it took me 27 minutes and I didn’t manage to parse everything (even the hidden NUN, despite looking for a hidden!). Oh well – there’s always tomorrow!

    FOI – 10ac DOC
    LOI – 21ac THORN
    COD – 15dn CAVE IN

    Thanks to Teazel for the challenge and to The Rotter for unravelling some answers for me.

  36. Another good day for us, although not as quick as yesterday. Had more trouble, unusually with the 3 letter clues, the long ones fell into place fairly quickly.

  37. 16min50 for a careless OWL DNF. When did I ever write it as descriminate?!? I’d even written out the anagrist to solve it and only needed to count the vowels (3 Is, 1 E) to see that’s wrong 🤦‍♂️

    Thought it was quite tough and my first pass only had ADAPTS, DOC, FACILE, COME-AGAIN, LUGGAGE and on one of my rare looks at the timer I was approaching 7 mins and still hadn’t read all the clues. But I’d also noted a couple of anagrams to be resolved. Another look put in HERE-WE-GO-AGAIN (bit meh about second use of “again”) and FLING.

    Think the clock was approaching 10mins as I went for unravelling ANARCHISM and from there it all just seemed to bif one after another with more checkers available.

    On the GUV debate, I originally tried GUy. If I understand correctly UV light can be separated into UVA (harmful rays) and UVB (safe) so in itself UV is both good and bad. As for the word GUV itself, if I overthink it then it probably isn’t synonymous or interchangeable with bloke but I would see both guv and bloke as slangy words to describe a man so I’m ok with it. I don’t think guv ever describes a woman.

    Finished in SE corner. Needed the blog to parse SUM which I’ve got store in the memory palace after it came up previously, like MINUS and LOI was THORN.

    Slightly annoyed with myself for the DNF but also accept there is little point beating myself up about it as there’s nothing much to learn. I now how to spell discriminate, I’m not sure why I decided to put des… 🤔

  38. Re: CRASH for fall asleep rather than crash out.

    In our twenties, my generation used to say “Can I crash at your place?” to signify sleeping over on the floor or sofa. Also when very tired “I just need to crash”. Obviously when we became grown ups, we bought our own homes and gained responsibilities that called us home!!

  39. After about 12 minutes I was unsure of THORN and couldn’t see SUM and MINUS. I came back to the puzzle an hour later and they went straight in. Bah!

  40. I’m glad I was able to recover my funds, I would have had to file for bankruptcy, thanks to Geminihacks -.- cohm. I was able to get a hold of these scam brokers and take back my money. I would gladly refer anyone.

  41. 26:10

    A glacial solve which started quickly enough but ran into serious trouble in the bottom left with THORN, MINUS and LOI SUM.

  43. Very pleased to get there in the end, lots clues put up good fights! Still not sure though why THORN =TREE though I could see H+ TORN =THORN. Any ideas? And round here most THORNs are on brambles!

  44. Appalling performance today, capped off with a DNF when I put MORNING instead of EVENING for 22ac and GIO (short for Giovanni or Georgio??) for 20dn. A grim reminder of the days when the QC was an unrelenting struggle. Took ages to see even the ‘simple’ ones, such as 18dn.
    Still waiting for a decent week this year and far too many DNFs for my liking. I seem to get a lot of clues on the first pass but then hit the proverbial brick wall at the moment.

    Thanks for the blog Rotter.

Comments are closed.