Times Quick Cryptic No 1159 by Tracy

Author   JohninterredPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
A typically neat and entertaining puzzle from Tracy today. Not too hard – it took me just under my average solving time, but with plenty to think about and some educating byways of vocabulary and general knowledge. A couple of classic cryptic devices for informing those still learning the trade are included too. Just how a QC should be, I think. I enjoyed checking up on where that European river actually flowed, the origin of the generic name for a crane and the music hall song I’d never heard before… the delights of blogging, not just solving the puzzle. What fun! Thanks, Tracy. How did you all get on?

Definitions underlined in italics, (ABC)* indicating anagram of ABC, {} deletions and [] other indicators.

Across
1 Supposed average time (5)
MEANT – MEAN (average) + T (time). If you were thinking “meant” for “supposed” is a bit of a stretch, substitute the former for the latter in “You’re only supposed to blow the bloody doors off“. That works, doesn’t it? And I got to link to a favourite film clip too!
4 Take the Spanish female supporters back (7)
SNAFFLE – EL (the Spanish) + F (female) + FANS (supporters) all reversed [back]. Isn’t that a bit of a misogynist attitude in the clue surface?
8 Ripened bananas for European banker (7)
DNIEPER – A common misdirection to watch out for… the word “banker” referring to that flowing wet thing that has banks – a river. In this case we rearrange (Ripened)* [bananas] to get “one of the major rivers of Europe, rising on Valdai Hills near Smolensk, Russia and flowing through Russia, Belarus and Ukraine to the Black Sea. It is the longest river of Ukraine and Belarus and the fourth-longest river in Europe”. Now we know.
9 Scoundrel I caught fencing antiquity (5)
RELIC – Hidden word  in ScoundREL I Caught. [Fencing] is the slightly unusual indicator that there is something inside those other words, but it works to make a great surface reading. Got any dodgy relics, mate?
10 Crane, one employed on a fruit farm? (6,6)
CHERRY PICKER – Double definition. This was my last one in and derived from the checkers. I never knew this was a generic term for an Aerial Work Platform (Crane).
12 I am taken aback about legislation in African republic (6)
MALAWI – I AM [taken aback] gives MAI. Put it [about] LAW (legislation) to get the small land-locked country in south-eastern Africa.
13 Agile doctor in centre of African river (6)
NIMBLE – Staying in Africa, but further north we get the NILE (African river) and put MB (doctor) [in centre of] it. Since this 2008 animated adventure, this word always gets me thinking of the Bake-O-Lite girl and the spoof of the classic advert.
16 Bored, came for unusual comedy play (7,5)
BEDROOM FARCE – (Bored came for)* [unusual]. A bedroom farce is “is a type of light comedy, centered on the sexual pairings and recombinations of characters as they move through improbable plots and slamming doors.” It is also the name of a 1975 play by British playwright Alan Ayckbourn.
18 A boxing match round (5)
ABOUT – A + BOUT (boxing match). About as easy a clue as you would find anywhere round here. Sorry. Couldn’t resist that.
20 Innocuous medication put down next to retired old boy (7)
PLACEBO – PLACE (put down) [next to] BO (OB backwards – [retired]). The placebo effect being “a beneficial effect produced by a placebo drug or treatment, which cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient’s belief in that treatment.” I’m tempted to comment on some forms of “alternative medicine“. Nope. Better stop there.
21 Remain uneasy close to shot tower (7)
MINARET – (Remain)* [uneasy] + [close to] {sho}T to get the type of slender tower usually associated with a mosque. Did anyone wonder if shot tower was the definition? This is my favourite one.
22 Pleasant entertaining eastern relative (5)
NIECE – NICE (Pleasant) [entertaining] – i.e. having inside E (eastern). My nieces are all very pleasant and entertaining. It is fun being Uncle John sometimes.

Down
1 Very little hatred surrounding Conservatives after end of referendum (7)
MODICUM – This one has a modicum of trickery. It works like this… Take ODIUM (hatred) [surrounding] C (Conservatives) to get ODICUM and put it [after] the [end of] {referendu}M
2 Girl, sad: good to have a music hall song (5,4,4)
ALICE BLUE GOWN – Assemble this as follows… ALICE (Girl), BLUE (sad), G (good) + OWN (have). I’d never heard of the song before, but I have now! You can hear it sung rather nicely here.
3 Pull in heavy drinker of high social standing (3-6)
TOP-DRAWER – DRAW (Pull) [in] TOPER (heavy drinker).
4 Fix fight, programme’s last (6)
SCRAPE – After the bout at 18a we get another fight, “SCRAP”, and add {programm}E [last] to get the sort of fine mess Laurel used to get Hardy into.
5 Actor originally put on Irish voice (3)
AIR – A{ctor} [originally[ + IR (Irish) to state an opinion, perhaps.
6 See girl before dancing in Parisian music hall (6,7)
FOLIES BERGERE – (See girl before)* [dancing] to get the famous music hall. Dancing the can-can, perhaps?
7 Carve portion of brisket, chewy (4)
ETCH – Hidden word, [portion of], briskET CHewy.
11 Head of clan hit in face, unexpectedly (9)
CHIEFTAIN – (hit in face)* [unexpectedly].
14 Looks round about, finding something very ugly (7)
EYESORE – EYES (Looks) + O (round letter) + RE (about).
15 Dish stolen with trophy (6)
HOTPOT – HOT (stolen) + POT (trophy) to get my favourite lancastrian dish.
17 Friendly, wife with member (4)
WARM – W (wife) + ARM (member). Along with “banker” at 8a, here is another common device to note –  “member” for arm or leg comes up quite otten.
19 Seaman‘s celebrity son omitted (3)
TAR – The celebrity is a {s}TAR, with the S (son) left off to get jolly Jack.

34 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1159 by Tracy”

  1. I actually didn’t know any other term for CHERRY PICKER, certainly not Aerial Work Platform. DNK 2d, and needed all the checkers to guess; I also needed to spell DNIEPER right (I will never get ‘wierd’ right; never. See?) 6d was an impressive anagram, wasted on me, as I biffed from the def. (Is that a tautology?) 6:45.
  2. Is music hall the setter’s idea of moving into the 20th century? Are the setters aware that we’re almost 20 years into the next century? Granted, it’s a nice change from testing my knowledge of long-dead composers, but other genres of music have since risen (and fallen). Country? Rock n Roll? Funk? Punk? Hip hop? I have a pulse and I’m not afraid to use it

    1. If hip hop ever enters the Times crossword I will know that the barbarians have finally smashed the gates!

      Templar

  3. 9 minutes. I didn’t know DNIEPER so it was my last one in requiring all the checkers and then a little guesswork to decide whether DNIEPER or DIENPER seemed the more likely arrangement of the remaining anagrist.

    I’m all for nostalgia in clues but 2dn was going it a bit as I doubt many people under about 70 (i.e. my age) would know this song title. The clue wasn’t helped by the setter apparently not knowing the difference between ‘music hall’ and ‘musical’ as forms of entertainment. Quite apart from anything else, it’s an American song and as far as I’m aware the Americans never had ‘music hall’. It was written for the 1919 Broadway musical ‘Irene’ by Harry Tierney and Joseph McCarthy (no, not that one!).

    Edited at 2018-08-17 05:46 am (UTC)

    1. Yes you are right about the origins of the song, but it was popular for many years after outside the context of the original musical. According to this there are at least 133 recordings of the song. The original singer, Edith Day came to London and performed in variety theatres, so it may have come associated with the Music Hall genre. But it would appear that the consensus here is that it is a bit obscure as GK for the QC – I’m glad it wasn’t just me being ignorant!

      Edited at 2018-08-17 02:53 pm (UTC)

      1. An admirable attempt to defend the clue, John, but I fear that the tenuous possiblility of association with a declining genre just won’t wash. In my view the reference to Music Hall has no place whatsoever in the definition.
        1. Well, I tried. The only other defence I can think of is that the clue originally said “musical” and it got edited to “music hall”… but I may be grasping at straws here!
          1. I’m not even sure that ‘musical’ would improve the clue by much. It would remove the inaccuracy but I ask myself how many of minority of people who know the song would be aware that it came from a musical? I certainly didn’t know that before today, nor had I even heard of the show when I looked it up.
  4. Likewise needed all the checkers for the song (a bit late for Music Hall, surely?), and to get the spelling of DNIEPER right – I preferred -RE.
    I see Frank Sinatra, among others, has covered ALICE BLUE GOWN. I presume the lyrics had to be adjusted, unless Ol’ Blue Eyes held a secret from us:
    “In my sweet little Alice blue gown
    When I first wandered down into town
    I was both proud and shy, as I felt every eye
    And in every shop window I primped passing by”
    That would be a video worth seeing.
  5. I had GK problems with this puzzle and looking at the answers, I think it is not quite fair (especially as I guessed incorrectly).
    I had Deniper for the river which gave me Annie for the girl. it never occurred to me the river would start DN.
    Otherwise pretty straightforward. About 20 minutes in total including finding Annie and missing Alice. David
  7. I thought it was going to be ANNIE too but managed to unscramble DNEIPER in time to save me. However, (a) there is no way that this is “music hall” (as jack has already said) and (b) talk about obscure …

    I was trying to think of a technical word for “shot tower” before twigging, thanks for the link John!

    COD to CHIEFTAIN for me; thanks to Tracy and John. All done in 2.5 Kevins.

    Templar

  8. I found this harder than yesterday’s QC (and that was quire a challenge). Some very ingenious and elegant clues giving rise to lots of head scratching. One or two answers came when I relaxed and went into semi-aware mode (whilst listening to the Devil’s Trill Sonata on Radio 3 played, unusually but quite superbly, on the viola). OK – half listening…… Three and a half Kevins; I seem to be going backwards this week. John M
  9. This was an unusual DNF for me. I knew 8a had to be an anagram of ripened but couldn’t make it into any banker of the money kind. Knew ‘flower’ for river but not ‘banker’. Also was trying unsuccessfully to make 2D into A…E BLUE MOON. Very obscure – I’m 76 and I’ve never heard of it.
    2. I’m also 76 and it was my favourite song when I was about 4 years old. Hazelnut.
  10. Never heard of the song or river, and having guessed Annie for the song was never going to get there, so I looked up the river and corrected Annie to ALICE. DNF in 10:09. A bit obscure methinks. Thanks Tracy and John.
  11. Fairly straightforward apart from THAT SONG, which I managed to construct with no confidence whatsoever (LOI). Definitely not Music Hall. All the other long clues came quite easily. CHERRY PICKERS are most commonly used for repairing street lamps, etc. No real vote for COD, all a bit ordinary I am afraid.
    PlayUpPompey
  12. Agree with all the above (surely punk is long enough dead to figure in a crossword?!). DNK Dnieper, Toper for drinker, had Annie not Alice, and LIMBER (guessed LIER was a river, doh) for 13A. Liked MINARET and CHIEFTAIN. Thanks Tracy, and John for unravelling the bits I cocked up 🙂
  13. 1d and 1ac went in easily enough, and that does wonders for the confidence. Cherry picker was another handy write-in, and it had to be Folies Bergere (nee Trevise, before the shepherdess came along) as Moulin Rouge didn’t fit. All went well, until just the 8ac/2d combination remained. I could see that 8ac was an anagram but dnk the river, and Annie/Alice both seemed plausible for the unknown girl in the unknown song, so I cheated and looked up the river. A pity, as it was shaping up to be a good time (around 25mins). If we must have obscure GK clues, it would help if they didn’t overlap. My favourite today was 14d, Eyesore, for its neat surface. Invariant
  14. Having been to Kiev several times which just happens to be on the banks of the fourth longest river in Europe, 8ac was a write in for me. Out of all the capital cities I have visited, Kiev has the most trees.

    Did not know 2dn but got it from the word play. My main problem came from writing 11dn as chiettain which made 16ac challenging. After spotting my typo got 16ac and LOI 14dn. Thanks to Tracy and johninterred.

  15. Was doing swimmingly here… I knew the song and I knew the Parisian music hall. I also knew what to do with “ripened “… but assumed I was wrong because I couldn’t come up with a word I recognised from scrambling it. Consequently, a DNF… I hate those. Still, upwards and onwards. Thank you, setter and blogger.
  16. A steady solve in 13 minutes. I had to play around with the letters in 8a DNIEPER to complete. DNK ALICE BLUE GOWN but the wordplay was easy to follow. Struggled surprisingly with 15d HOTPOT largely because POT does not equate to trophy for me. Thanks for the blog.
  17. I found this harder than yesterday’s QC (and that was quire a challenge). Some very ingenious and elegant clues giving rise to lots of head scratching. One or two answers came when I relaxed and went into semi-aware mode (whilst listening to the Devil’s Trill Sonata on Radio 3 played, unusually but quite superbly, on the viola). OK – half listening…… Three and a half Kevins; I seem to be going backwards this week. John M
  18. No idea about the song so trusted the cryptic and put it in on a wing and a prayer. Otherwise found this one ok. Half of yesterday’s time at 5’45”
  19. A strange combination of the simple and the obscure. As others have commented I felt the 2d/8a combo was a bit much for the QC. I toyed with Annie and Alice before dredging the name of the river up from somewhere (no pun intended). Also needed all of the checkers for LOI 16a. Completed in 17.59
    Excellent blog thank you
  20. Perhaps my favourite ever clue when I was at Lancaster University in early 70s and we’d spend Saturdays down the pub doing all the papers’ crosswords. “Stolen drug from Lancashire “.
  22. Happily I knew 2d – so it can’t really be that obscure (I’m only 72), and it was picked up by and sung on the variety stage (as good as a music hall for me), and, yes, Sinatra did toy with the words a bit but still a well-known one of his. Then I suddenly remembered the banker misdirection and deduced the correct spelling which then brought the recollection to confirm it, and that brought an abrupt and correct conclusion. So no complaints here for either the setter or blog.
  23. As still a novice, I found this much more enjoyable (iow easier) than yesterday. No particular problems anywhere. The river had to be dredged up from the depths as I didn’t know that banker could be river.
    Don’t really see a cherry picker as a crane (but I used to be a civil engineer, so maybe I’m just being pedantic).

    Thanks to Tracy for cheering me up and to John for the excellent blog.

  24. A nice QC solved a day late for various reasons. SWMBO knew the song and I knew the river (but in the wrong country!) so we were alright.
    As regards ‘out of date’ clues (music hall) there can be no time limit if we accept happily clues from Ancient Greek or Roman times!!
  25. Thanks, Mark. I thought the song a fair clue, but just a little obscure for a QC. The Greek ones in the 15×15 often catch me out!

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