Times Quick Cryptic 840 by Flamande

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
I needed 11 minutes for this one, missing my target time by 1. If I’m looking for an excuse when so much of it is really straightforward I would put it down to a raised eyebrow or two along the way at a couple of definitions and one piece of wordplay which gave me pause for thought. More on  these as we go.

As usual definitions are underlined in bold italics, {deletions are in curly brackets} and [anagrinds, containment, reversal and other indicators in square ones]

Across
1 Suggest work in writing (7)
PROPOSE – OP (work) in PROSE (writing)
5 Chop end off dining chair (5)
CARVE – CARVE{r} (dining chair) [end off]. I suspect many will not know this word for a dining chair with arm-rests. I might take issue with the definition here as I think carving and chopping are distinctly different actions.
8 Potentially characters in Animal Farm, an unlikely sort of story (4,3,4)
COCK AND BULL – A cryptic hint precedes the main definition which references a well-known saying of disputed origin.
10 Weapons found in farmstead (4)
ARMS – Hidden in {f}ARMS{tead}
11 Fruit Ray and Bert cultivated across years (8)
TAYBERRY – Anagram [cultivated] of RAY BERT containing [across] Y (years). Not the most obvious fruit but easy enough to work out from the anagram giving us BERRY and two of the remaining letters are checked. Apparently it dates only from 1977 when somebody near the River Tay in Scotland decided to cross the raspberry with the American blackberry.
12 Brave reorganisation of Hire Co (6)
HEROIC – Another anagram [reorganisation] of HIRE CO
14 For example, one / sort of anaesthetic (6)
NUMBER – Two definitions of sorts
16 Good-looking worker, so attached to me (8)
HANDSOME – HAND (worker), SO, ME
18 Little pig and the noise it makes if head’s cut? (4)
RUNT – {g}RUNT (noise it makes – the pig, that is) [head’s cut]. Runts aren’t exclusively pigs but the question mark excuses the DBE (definition by example). There was a brief moment’s temptation to biff “oink”.
20 Mild-mannered in attack (11)
INOFFENSIVE – IN, OFFENSIVE (attack)
22 Be left with large and ultimately unlovely stomach (5)
BELLY – BE, L (left), L (large), {unlovel}Y [ultimately]
23 Quieter part of distillery (7)
STILLER – Hidden in [part of] {di}STILLER{y}
Down
2 Athlete runs behind lots of people (5)
RACER – RACE (lots of people), R (runs – cricket)
3 Miniature picture — A Sailing Vessel — by old Spanish artist (7)
PICASSO – PIC (miniature picture), A, SS (sailing vessel), O (old). Hm. The abbreviation for Sailing Vessel is actually SV, but unless there’s a Spanish artist called Picasvo I suppose we must assume the setter thinks that a Steam Ship (which actually is abbreviated to SS) might be regarded as a sailing vessel in that it’s a vessel that sails on the sea. I have found a reference or two on the internet to SS standing for Sailing Ship but not in any reputable source.
4 Type of music some kids adore at the outset (3)
SKA – First letters [at the outset] of S{ome} K{ids} A{dore}. A word I know only solving from crossword puzzles.
6 Severe reduction in A & E (5)
ACUTE – CUT (reduction) in  A+E
7 I reveal foreign girl’s name (7)
VALERIE – Anagram [foreign] of I REVEAL
9 Respected lady agreed to stash foreign money (7)
DOYENNE – DONE (agreed)  contains [to stash] YEN (foreign money)
11 Hire purchase no longer available for carpet (4,3)
TICK OFF – TICK (hire purchase), OFF (no longer available e.g. a dish on a menu). This is “carpet” in the sense of telling off. Hire purchase is  (or was) commonly  referred to as “the never-never” whereas I understand  buying on “tick” to be charged to an account or more generally on credit, but I suppose it’s not too much of a stretch.
13 Test area in former excavation site (7)
EXAMINE – EX (former), A (area), MINE (excavation site)
15 Warlike officer, we hear (7)
MARTIAL – Sounds like [we hear] “marshal” (officer)
17 Nobleman upset Liberal? That’s funny (5)
DROLL – LORD (nobleman) reversed [upset], L (Liberal)
19 Terribly nice English family member (5)
NIECE – Anagram [terribly] of NICE, E (English)
21 Fool turned up in tank top (3)
NIT – IN reversed [turned up], T{ank} [top]

33 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 840 by Flamande”

  1. This was challenging, and I’m surprised I finished as quickly as I did; I’m surprised I finished, for that matter. DNK TAYBERRY, but as Jack says, once you’ve got the BERRY, there’s not much choice. TICK OFF took some time, even with the OFF; for one thing, I took TICK to mean ‘credit’–doesn’t hire purchase involve actual (partial) payment?–and TICK OFF in my dialect means ‘irritate’ not ‘berate’. DNK ‘carver’, and like Jack I don’t see CARVE=chop. Why didn’t the setter just say ‘Cut off …’? I also don’t see why the setter capitalized A Sailing Vessel; I think SS would be far more acceptable then. (In fact, I biffed from P_C, and never noticed the problem.) 6:20.
    1. According to SOED the “berate” meaning was originally military slang from the early 20th century and the “irritate” meaning was American slang from the mid 20th century.
  2. Floundering behind Kevin, as usual. Similar unknowns in TAYBERRY, TICK for HP and the CARVER chair, but the cluing didn’t leave too much room for doubt.

    Thanks Flamande and Jack.

  3. Doesn’t the nautical SS stand for Steam Ship?
    A little bit rusty on 9.10 but respectable methink!

    COD SKA well known in Trench Town, Jamaica post-Marley.

    WOD 8ac COCK AND BULL (much used by Walter Gabriel on The Archers!)

  4. I actually missed that very bit for some reason, apologies. The Capitals for Sailing Vessels is somewhat misleading I agree.
  5. 15:02 today so I definitely found this at the easier end of the spectrum. Like others, Tayberry was unknown to me but the only answer once Berry had been spotted. After two years I’m glad to have actually spotted number as meaning to make numb at last.
  6. I remember spending ages with the clue ‘Backnumber’ before the penny dropped for the answer ‘Epidural’ 🙂
  7. This was fine I knew Tayberry and Carver. Was also tempted to biff ‘oink’ and spent too long trying to justify it. My last one in was ‘Nit’ – why I couldn’t see the wordplay I don’t know.
  8. A relatively quick finish for me. Except for 21d where I saw ‘tank’, and thought ‘tun’ reversed would give me a fool (‘nut’). My bad. I think my hurried carving of the Sunday Roast would qualify as a “chop”, as in ‘I see Dad has chopped the lamb up again’.
  9. 45 minutes, held up by racer, cock and bull, Valerie, carve and LOI martial.

    Dnk tayberry or carver. I thought about eatin for “chop end off dining”, but it didn’t sound like a chair.

    14a number, twigged quite quickly after seeing a few times. Haven’t been able to watch a backnumber 3 times now!

    COD 8a cock and bull.

    And welcome back victor/horryd.

  10. 6.10 with CARVE responsible for quite a chunk of it. I had to go back to it twice before carver came to mind and I share the misgivings over the definition. As usual I grumbled inwardly about the random girl’s name but the setter painted himself into a corner with that one.
  11. 8:35, so wasn’t held up much. Started with PROPOSE and finished with NIECE. Didn’t know TAYBERRY but there weren’t many options to go before BERRY. Knew TICK as credit and the chair, but as others have mentioned, wouldn’t really equate carve with chop. Thanks Flamande and Jack.
  12. It’s quite clear I think: there’s no question of it being MARSHAL. The clue is ‘Warlike officer, we hear’, so the definition is ‘Warlike’ and the rest of it is wordplay. You virtually never find the definition in the middle of the clue.

    And if there’s any further doubt, the ‘we hear’ is next to ‘officer’, so obviously applies to it. I can’t see how anyone can think it’s otherwise.

  13. Just left a comment and instead of the comment there is a whole lot of stuff that I don’t understand about error time out … ???
  15. Never heard of TAYBERRY, but OK not difficult to work out. Didn’t like the use of chop for carve, not at all the same thing (they require quite different tools for a start), although I am familiar with carvers. SS is absolutely not a sailing vessel, it is a steam ship. That is why the term SS came into use. Finally MARSHAL would fit the clue in 15dn just as well as MARTIAL and requires the checker to differentiate. Happy with TICK for HP, was commonly used that way in my youth.
    Despite all that, an average time for me.
    PlayUpPompey
    1. Fair enough if we were being asked to solve the clue “blind” so to speak. But fitting an answer with checkers is part of the solve as far as I’m concerned.
      1. Checkers aside, I can’t see how “Warlike officer, we hear” could be used to clue “marshal”.
      2. OK, and in fairness the definition is usually the first word. But moving the comma would have made it crystal clear. Maybe I am just being picky because I chose the wrong one first time around!!
  16. From a discussion a while ago, it appeared that SS was originally an abbreviation for ‘screw steamer (or ship)’ as opposed to PS ‘paddle steamer’ – this makes the reference to ‘Sailing Vessels’ simply wrong.
  17. A pleasant 18 min start to the week, with the grid providing the necessary checkers to help things move along. 3d and 11d were my favourites, notwithstanding the doubts raised by SS for a sailing ship. Invariant
  18. I had one of those days where I thought I would make things tougher for myself through my own doziness – particularly with reference to my last 2 in 5a and 7d. I initially thought 5a was going to be something like ‘eatin’ (like Flashman above) so became convinced that 7d would begin with an ‘I’ and I also missed the anagram for some reason.
    The rest of the puzzle was enjoyable with lots of good clues.
    Not sure what my final completion time was due to 5 and 7 taking a couple of sittings to work out but it wasn’t quick.
  19. A toughie I thought for the beginning of the week. Maybe it’s me, but I’ve found the last few Monday’s fairly challenging.

    Like many I struggled with 5ac and “carve”. For 2dn I can kind of see why “race” may represent lots of people in the context of the clue – but that wasn’t immediately obvious, even though it was biffable.

    Should have spotted 14ac more quickly as I seen “number” for anaesthetic a number of times. I had Oink and even Pink in 18ac for an age which is why i struggled with 15dn.

    Overall, fairly enjoyable.

    FOI 10ac, LOI 15dn and COD 13dn.

    Thanks as usual.

    DR31

  20. In sub-10 territory which is unusual of late. I lean towards loosening the sheets and allowing our setter the leeway for sailing vessel=any vessel which sails on the sea as Jack has described. Took some time to see the definition in tick off and then LOI Valerie as I didn’t see ‘foreign’ as an anagram indicator for a while.
  21. About 30 mins, and an enjoyable 30 mins, I found. I knew TAYBERRY, and carver chairs – for that is the exciting life I lead – but RUNT took me ages. I even put “wine” (as in whine, head off swine) for a while, even though I knew it couldn’t be right! NIT, too, was an effort. But overall, good fun. Thanks Jack and Flamande.
  22. 18 minutes which is good for me. I had no real difficulties or complaints (though accept that SS and Carve are debatable) and I feel happy that I found this quite straightforward as there are so many days where I struggle and the commenters here thought it was a breeze that I’m glad to be on the other side for once (and probably not again for a while!). Pexiter.
  23. I too wanted to put Oink;so it was my second last in whilst I worked it out.
    LOI was Carver. No problems with any of this. Liked 6d very much. No exact time but no big hold-ups. David

  24. 16m I’m getting better. Also had NUT for NIT, after seeing tun=tank.

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