Times Quick Cryptic 1831 by Orpheus

Author   ChrisPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

No time to declare as I was interrupted but I think this will prove to be on the harder side. There’s the odd philosopher and Dickensian character to deal with as well as some tricky-ish 12 letter answers and a smattering of double definitions. Good luck!

Definitions are underlined.

Across
1 Current run taken by Scottish philosopher (8)
MILLRACE – run (RACE) beside Scottish philosopher (MILL) – 1773 to 1836 – no, I hadn’t heard of him either.
5 Young creature identified by US city doctor (4)
LAMB – US city (LA), doctor (MB).
9 Report of examination relating to the ears (5)
AURAL – homophone (report of) examination – oral.
10 A French waterway lacking security? (7)
UNSOUND – ‘a’ in French (UN), waterway (SOUND).
11 TV inspector impolite about good Dickensian halfwit (7,5)
BARNABY RUDGE – TV inspector in Midsomer (BARNABY), impolite (RUDE) about good (G). Mr. Rudge wandered around with a pet raven called Grip for some reason.
13 Liberal at site of cathedral in the recent past (6)
LATELY – liberal (L), at (AT), site of cathedral (ELY).
15 Menu item’s recent re-emergence, somewhat reduced (6)
ENTREE – a reduced form of rec(ENT REE)mergence.
17 Openness familiar to photographers (12)
TRANSPARENCY – double definition.
20 A couple of blokes introducing a form of forage (7)
ALFALFA – a couple of blokes (ALF ALF) plus an a (A).
21 Chap showing interest at first in bird of prey (5)
ERNIE – another bloke. (I)nterest inside bird of prey (ERNE).
22 Make an impression, and so on, with husband (4)
ETCH – and so on (ETC), husband (H).
23 Graduate motionless beside European fortress (8)
BASTILLE – graduate (BA), motionless (STILL) beside European (E). Initially, I underlined European fortress but realised the ‘E’ is used in the parsing.
Down
1 Part of grain provided for breakfast, perhaps (4)
MEAL – double definition. The first is a rough powder made from crushed grain.
2 Immature form of life right in centre of volcanic discharge (5)
LARVA – following on from ‘lamb’ above. Right (R) in centre of volcanic discharge (LAVA).
3 Harshly made fewer advances in bank (12)
RELENTLESSLY – made fewer advances (LENT LESS) inside bank (RELY). Well, I liked this one so award it COD but is it a bit convoluted for newer solvers? Let me know.
4 Like bread — inferior, by the sound of it (6)
CRUMBY – homophone (by the sound of it) of crummy.
6 In pieces, in the manner indicated below (7)
ASUNDER – in the manner upindicated below (AS UNDER).
7 Pestered, wanting emblem of bright colour (8)
BADGERED – emblem (BADGE), bright colour (RED).
8 Separation of weird blokes in Egypt’s borders (12)
ESTRANGEMENT – weird blokes (STRANGE MEN) inside (E)gyp(T). Similar clue construction to 3dn.
12 Dull ship’s officer, one sharing apartment (8)
FLATMATE – dull (FLAT), ship’s officer (MATE).
14 Trade in motor vehicles? (7)
TRAFFIC – double definition.
16 Mostly own an area in Caribbean capital (6)
HAVANA – mostly own (HAV)e, an (AN), area (A).
18 Is Capone able to identify a watercourse? (5)
CANAL – is Capone able to (CAN AL Capone).
19 He entertains the Queen in this place (4)
HERE – he (HE) entertains the Queen (ER).

73 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1831 by Orpheus”

  1. A deep sigh….

    I fear the planets aligned this morning to create a perfect storm of me being slow, difficult clueing and obscure answers.

    I did enjoy 18dn “Canal” though.

    Thanks as usual.

  2. Hard graft today as the long clues resisted for some time, but got there eventually. 1D went in quite early, so I had a lead for 1A and the trusty Monty Python gave me a suitable philosopher to fit, so I didn’t bother pondering their nationality. Thought I wasn’t too bad on Dickens, but it didn’t click for a while, hindered rather than helped by reference to a detective I had barely heard of. Liked ASUNDER, ALFALFA was a headslap moment when I got it.
  3. I thought this was beyond tricky, with a number of clues that seemed out of place in a QC. Unsound for lacking security, the unknown Alfalfa and a does-it-even-exist Crumby, all detracted from what would otherwise have been a hard but satisfying challenge. 35mins in total, with time lost over Millrace (couldn’t get maelstrom to fit, despite my creative spelling efforts), and correcting a hastily bifd Panama. CoD to 6d, Estrangement. Invariant
  4. where I felt as I was completing it, there would be protestations of it being too hard.

    Normally I feel like this when I think the many of the clues are v good.

    I liked MILLRACE, never even entered my head whether Mill was Scottish or not, MILL is a philosopher, race is a run, and a MILLRACE is a current. It works, why worry about whether he’s Scottish?

    RELENTLESSLY was a cracker, as was BASTILLE and ESTRANGEMENT. HAVANA, ASUNDER, ENTREE was nicely hidden.

    I suppose CRUMBY would no more form part of my daily discourse than CRUMMY, but it seemed obvious enough.

    6:31.

    1. Because it was in the clue! Ironically if Orpheus had left out Scottish and just said philosopher the controversy would have been removed.
      1. You are quite right of course, but it didn’t cause me any delay or concern thinking about whether said philosopher was Scottish or not (I actually had no idea!), once I had got MILLRACE as the answer.
  5. ….but I had no gripes over the clueing. Ted Dexter, the England cricket captain, was born in Milan, but was undoubtedly English. The location of one’s birth is less important than one’s heritage. I’ve always considered John Stuart Mill to be a Scot.

    FOI MEAL
    LOI ALFALFA
    COD BARNABY RUDGE
    TIME 4:54

    1. Most of us think of Mill as English, but it hardly matters; the point here is that, as I said, adding ‘Scottish’ to the clue when just ‘philosopher’ would do was a gratuitous complication. At least in a QC, I wouldn’t expect ‘fat philosopher’ for HUME, or ‘gay philosopher’ for WITTGENSTEIN.
        1. Ironically, I suspect that it was Orpheus trying to be helpful by narrowing the field …

  6. DNF for me today as I could not get Millrace even with all the checkers. Boo. Although I had Relentlessly I didn’t enter it as I couldn’t parse it – definitely convoluted as Chris says.

    A TBE for me today (Tricky But Enjoyable).

  7. … comes the muck cart. Yesterday’s almost unheard of excursion out of the SCC (18 minutes) was followed today by a much more typical DNF – 3 clues wrong/unsolved in 64 minutes.

    I was beaten by MILLRACE, even though I got RACE for RUN, I had heard of the Scottish philosopher (although only from Monty Python’s Bruce’s Song – “… John Stuart Mill, of his own free will, on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill …”), and I knew that a MILLRACE is the channel of fast-flowing water that turns a water wheel. Part of the problem, I think, was that I had BRAN instead of MEAL, which I would suggest is an alternative correct solution to 1d. An ambiguous and not very cryptic clue, in my humble opinion.

    I also came up with PANAMA and BANANA for 16d, but never thought of HAVANA. TRAFFIC and ALFALFA were solved very late on, and only after a certain amount of of despair.

    Well done to everyone who solved this puzzle today, and thanks to Orpheus and chrisw91.

  8. 26 minutes, so a challenge today, with a correspondingly strong sense of achievement on completion. Thank-you.
  9. Well, that one got us thinking. A few write ins but mainly it was hard work. NHO of Mr Mills – I wonder how many people ever have? On the other hand, there were some lovely clues which we really appreciated. We finished in 21 minutes.

    FOI: larva
    LOI: millrace
    COD: take your pick – we liked Bastille, canal and crumby

    Thanks to Orpheus and Chris.

  10. I assumed he meant JS Mill rather than his little known father. I read Philosophy at Edinburgh and even there he was barely mentioned!

  11. I’m another one who pencilled in BRAN for 1d which slowed down the NW considerably. I did think that several of these clues were edging towards 15×15 territory but worked my way through them steadily until I came unstuck with three to go. 10 minutes for most of the puzzle, 3 minutes for the last three – and they were the same ones as everyone else: MILLRACE, MEAL and RELENTLESSLY! The ‘weird blokes’ made me smile (although they might not in real life!) and I put a tick next to 7d but nothing really stood out as a COD.

    FOI Lamb
    LOI Meal
    COD (or as near as dammit) Badgered

    Thanks Orpheus and Chris

  12. Definitely tricky. I didn’t get the two long down clues until I was well through the puzzle (and realised on reading the blog that I hadn’t completely parsed them.) Barnaby Rudge jumped out for me though I knew nothing about him. (Can one really use words like halfwit nowadays?) I half remembered erne from previous crosswords and had to look it up to check. The ‘perhaps’ in 1d, like a question mark, made me think ‘breakfast’ was an example giving me meal without a problem. But like everyone else I got stuck on 1a. I thought it was some philosopher McL… or Malcolm or some such Scottish name possibly with i or r. DNF. My app gave me millrace but I had given up by then.
    FOI aural
    LOI (before giving up) entree
    COD etch
    Thanks to Orpheus for a challenge and Chris for the explanations.
    Blue Stocking
  13. …of his own free will
    On half a pint of shandy
    Was particularly ill

    Well according to Monty Python anyhow.
    Johnny

  14. I’m always indebted to monty python when there are philosophers involved. In this case John Stuart mill of his own free will on half a pint of cider was particularly ill.

    Found some of this tricky though I knew barmaby rudge.

    11:23
    Thanks Chris and orpheus

  15. And I have said that before.

    So I thought that I would really really try to complete this.

    I ticked 12 clues that I thought were ok — across 5, 9, 13, 17 just, 22, 23, down 1, 2, 12, 16, 18, 19.

    Then I ticked the following as tricky but ok with checkers 10a, 15a, 6d, 7d, 14d

    I had the following as unpleasant 11a, (ok maybe only me NHO Barnaby = TV Inspector), 20a (my general knowledge of foraging lacking), 21a yuk, 3d, 4d, 8d. OK some are clever in construction but also difficult.

    But I got them all after 40 minutes.
    So I suppose up to now I begrudgingly found it just doable.

    I then had just 1a to get — which after a further 10 minutes I gave up on. Even with all the checkers. This gets a TGR from me — yes a Triple Golden Raspberry — an absolute stinker of a clue.

    DNF

    So despite my best endeavours I have no real reason to change my view regarding Orpheus.

    I still want to see more of this setters crosswords to see just how ‘bad’ they can get.

    Thanks all
    John George

    Edited at 2021-03-16 06:32 pm (UTC)

    1. Wow. A GR is a biggie – this is a first as a TGR. The majority of posters (including myself) struggled with this one.
  16. I’m in the’ too hard’ camp. No idea about 1ac but was convinced that bran was correct for 1dn. Biffed 3dn from the checkers, used aids for a couple of others. Too tough to be enjoyable, I’m afraid.
  18. I usually manage to finish the QC — or get to within one or two in an hour.
    But on this I managed 9 in and hour and half or more.
    Ridiculously hard for QC — I still don’t understand MILLRACE — thought it might involve AC and R…
    Note to self — don’t waste another minute on an Orpheus puzzle
    Nick

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