Times Quick Cryptic 1750 by Orpheus

73 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1750 by Orpheus”

1. CAPE for COPE. Didn’t know the word. What’s more likely, a word CAPE meaning ‘manage (to make)’, or a word COPE meaning ‘ceremonial cloak’? I suppose the latter, but if there’s at least one meaning you don’t know, what can you do? (Did the same with GENTRY.)
2. I biffed PI-DOG; I did know the word, I don’t know how. Also biffed MARSHY, parsing both post-submission. I wondered about ‘flesh-eating’; just ‘mammal’ would have been easier to solve, I think, and I wonder if that was the reason the setter added the word. 6:34.

   Edited at 2020-11-23 01:54 am (UTC)

3. …so I was able to finish. This one will be a trial for inexperienced solvers, who will be befuddled by the tricky cross-reference and may not know goshawk or pi-dog. I expect some complaints.

   My time was 10:56.

4. NHO PI DOG, COPE for cloak, GOSHAWK or the heroine so this was a bit of a slog. I had to pass over four clues before getting my first and ended my first run of acrosses with five entered. Downs were not massively better but the grid then slowly filled up. The high point was being able to enter SEE with confidence to show the crossword miles on my clock. Took a while to see how ‘try’ was ‘test’. Glad to be all green having submitted without full confidence so needed the blog to unpick a few – thanks Jackkt!

   EDIT: also came close to whacking in cap for CUP – my LOI.

   Edited at 2020-11-23 07:51 am (UTC)

5. … and it stretched me for 13 minutes. I avoided the Cope/Cape trap at 9D as I did know the ecclesiastical vestments meaning, but 8A Pi dog was a biff. At least Orpheus clued it generously.

   Slightly surprised no-one has commented on 10A Mat. For me mat = dull looks odd; I would spell that meaning matt. Perhaps an allowed or regional alternative? If so not one I’ve met.

   Liked the simplicity of 16A Carpentry – one of those times where I was looking for something cleverer until the penny dropped.

   Many thanks to Jack for the blog
   Cedric

   1. All the usual sources have both though Chambers is a bit begrudging with ‘matt, or sometimes mat’.
      1. Thanks Jack – I had the same doubt as Cedric
         1. So did I
      2. I have never seen mat paint with only one T. Being a modeller, I have countless little pots of paint. They confirm this.
6. Too tricky for a Monday morning! NHO PI DOG or COATI, vaguely remembered COPE, wouldn’t say that a SLOGAN was a motto and fortunately, worked in Bath in a former life.
   Most biffed eventually but, all I all, frustrating and rather unsatisfying. On the positive side, it added to my xwd training. Thanks to Orpheus and Jackkt for the reveal.
7. 7:06. My slowest for a while. I hesitated over COATI wondering why “flesh-eating” was needed, but was mostly held up in the end finding the KING in MIMICKING (and then finishing with GENTRY). I needed to convince myself PI-DOG was a word, but it sort of rang a bell eventually. All a bit on the tricky side, I thought.
   1. John, apologies for not blogging your splendid Saturday Special – it turned into a mad weekend!
      1. No worries. I added a few notes myself… not as good as your blogs, though 🙂
   2. Thank you for a great weekend QC, we really enjoyed it 😀
      1. Glad you enjoyed it. Phil’s next one for the weekend after next is almost ready already! We are greatly encouraged by the appreciative comments. Thanks.

         Edited at 2020-11-25 08:50 am (UTC)

8. I dithered a bit over the COPE/CAPE decision as I was unfamiliar with the item of clothing but COPE seemed to fit the first part of the clue better. For the unknown PI DOG and forgotten COATI I just had to trust the wordplay, which I thought was reasonably kind. I’d also never heard of the heroine in 10d but the definition and a couple of checkers made the answer fairly obvious.
   Finished in 7.29 with LOI COATI and CoD to MADCAP.
   Thanks to Jack
9. Just inside my target of 15 minutes, but it felt longer, with struggles over PI-DOG, COATI and MIMICKING. I liked MADCAP best, and make that COD and WOD. Thanks Jackkt and Orpheus.
10. Nho PI-DOG so had to use checkers

    But managed the rest in the end – a very long end!

    I didn’t consider CARPENTRY to be posh woodwork and then realised that was where the p came in. No offence intended to carpenters without whose superb work we wouldn’t have had such an beautiful new kitchen twenty years ago.

    Thanks to Orpheus and Jack

    Diana

11. Its been a long time since I’ve been able to do one of these early on the day it appears!

    A tougher than normal Monday I think, I had to double check Pi-Dog was actually a thing and whether Coati was a carnivore (Google seems to think omnivore, which confused me). Didn’t know ADC as a general’s assistant either. But I was very pleased to dredge Mimi as the operatic heroine up out of my memory!

    44 minutes with cape rather than cope at 9D so definitely on the slow side for the blog, but an enjoyable solve none the less.

    Thanks jackkt for the explanations and Orpheus for the morning brain-teaser!

    1. A coati is an omnivore!
       1. Somebody mentioned this point above but it seems that the name can be applied to a variety of closely related species defined as omnivore or carnivore depending on the source. Indeed Collins on-line has both:
          (i) any omnivorous mammal of the genera Nasua and Nasuella, of Central and South America: family Procyonidae, order Carnivora ( carnivores).
          (ii) any of a genus (Nasua) of small, tree-dwelling, raccoonlike carnivores with a long, flexible snout, found in Mexico and Central and South America

          In any case the clue says ‘flesh-eating mammal’ which is covered by both, and since it’s irrelevant to the answer anyway it might have been better if the setter had just put ‘mammal’ and left it at that.

12. All correct in 14:29 and I too was not sure about COPE which I preferred to Cape. PI DOG new to me; and for COATI I needed all the checkers.
    There was other difficult stuff in here too, so this was a stern test for any day of the week. FOI OLDSTER; LOI unforgivably was GENTRY after several looks (this is the name used by supporters of Preston North End who dress up in bowler hats and ties for one away game a season).
    COD to MIMICKING and I knew the opera reference but not everyone will.
    David

13. Ooof, welcome to the week. PI-DOG surfaced from somewhere (Kipling I would guess) but NHO COATI (it can join the EFT in the Crosswordland Zoo and I hope they eat each other). What with one thing and another that was a bit of a shock to the system.

    FOI COOLER, LOI COATI, COD SHAKEN (made me chuckle), time 1.7K for a Decent Enough Day I Suppose.

    Many thanks Orpheus and Jack.

    Templar

    Edited at 2020-11-23 10:26 am (UTC)

14. I’d never heard of PI-DOG, so had to rely on the wordplay, but the rest of the puzzle presented no problems. Mimi, whose tiny hand was frozen, is one of the few operatic characters I know, so MIMICKING went in quickly. 8:06. Thanks Orpheus and Jack.
15. I took 32 minutes, well over my target of 20, for what I thought was a difficult puzzle. I had to visit the dictionary to confirm the meanings of PI-DOG and COPE, and the spelling of MIMICKING. I also used more alphabet trawls than usual, and there were a few un-parsed, so thanks to Jack for sorting them out, and to Orpheus for a challenging puzzle.

    Brian

16. I found this one difficult. 16a, I kept looking for words similar to driveway. The phrase “vehicle access” reply threw me, and I never did get the answer.

    With a number of these clues I was put off the trail from the start because I keep reading the surface meaning of cryptic clues and going from there. Again, 16a being a prime example of this for me. I guess this just comes with experience.

    I did also try the “normal” Time cryptic crossword. I got three answers there.

    A disappointing start to the week for me where the QC is concerned. Oh well, perhaps tomorrow’s offering will ve a bit better for me.

    1. Keep going, they get easier! You’ll soon get into the swing of ignoring the surfaces 🙂 I think this one was tougher than normal for a Monday.

       H

    2. Always split the words up, if they seem to go together, they probably don’t!
17. Did know Pi-dog as we met them on our travels.
    ADCs I knew, some quite well.
    Made a few bad guesses which didn’t help.
    Knew Mimi but still struggled.
    Forgot to confess, I did look up Cooler – COD as it made me smile.
    Thanks all, as ever.

    Edited at 2020-11-23 12:26 pm (UTC)

18. Took a little while to get going, but the southern half went in easily and the north then followed due to the checkers. Initially had CoH for 1D, thinking Companion of Honour, but that made PI DOG impossible, and it had to be PI DOG even though I’d never heard of it, so CUP then presented itself. All done in 8:38, which I consider slow for a Monday, though there was a fair bit of fat-fingering to be corrected!

    COD MADCAP

    H

    1. The correct abbreviation for Companion of Honour is CH, and it is often clued as just ‘companion’.
       1. I knew that but the clue seemed clear ‘originally conveyed on horseback’. Don’t think I’ve ever heard of being on horseback referred to as ‘UP’, so I thought COH was a sensible answer. NHO of pi-dog and couldn’t even work it out from the parsing, so a double failure today.
          1. ‘Up’ for being on a horse is very common in cryptic puzzles so worth remembering. It also appears meaning being at university.
             1. Thanks. Knew the university reference but horses have passed me by
       2. I do know that, but I just thought the setter had backed himself(?) into a corner and COH was one way out 🙂 Maybe the only. And it fitted the word play nicely.

          H

19. A year ago I wouldn’t have finished this – and even after 15 mins I wasn’t sure I would – so I was happy to complete it correctly in 30 mins.

    Personally I thought this was hard – both in the wordplay and GK. DNK the general’s assistant for 4ac, the operatic heroine in 10dn nor the vagrant mongrel in 8ac but they were solvable from the checkers and the clues. Lots of potential misdirection for the unwary – nearly put Kestrel and Robin for 14dn and 17dn respectively and then thought 21dn had something to do with Yin/Yang.

    For once, the long anagrams in 3dn and 5dn were relatively straight forward and did help, although I wasn’t too keen on 2dn “Oldster” – is that even a word?

    So a challenging start to the week.

    FOI – 10ac “Mat”
    LOI – 10dn “Mimicking”
    COD – 23ac “Shaken” – probably a chestnut but made me smile.

    Thanks as usual.

    1. Oldster : recent (last 20 years ?) play on youngster. On checking my two usual sources (Chambers and Bradford) neither gives it, but it’s certainly cropped up in puzzles before – but probably not in a QC. Congrats on completing this as it was certainly one for us 15×15 veterans.
       1. The Oxfords have it as early 19th century. It’s also a nautical term for a midshipman of four years’ standing;

          Edited at 2020-11-23 01:52 pm (UTC)

       2. A definite toughie for the week.

          I’m at the stage where, whilst I might not be speed completing the QC every day, I more or less do finish them. Yet I still find the main 15×15 too impenetrable and hard.

          I’m going to have to find something between the two as an intermediate step.

          1. When you find it, do let us know! I am at the same stage, betwixt. Pleased to finish today especially as I didn’t know the pi dog – but did know coati. Plymouthian.
          2. Daily Telegraph! Harder than QC not as hard as 15×15. I can usually do the Telegraph or at least get very close but 15×15 performace still patchy (to say the least).
             1. I started doing the Quiptic in the Guardian (as it is free) – but I can’t work out where it lies in the general landscape of crossword world. Sometimes it’s straight forward, sometimes fairly hard – but I’ll be honest in that don’t like doing them online.
20. Well that was a hard way to start the week. Quite a few answers had to be teased out with a crowbar (you may well blush, 10d) but, having finally crossed the line the wrong side of 30mins, I find that FOI Companion of Honour (CoH) for 1d was wrong. I accept Hi Dog looked wrong, but then Pi Dog isn’t a write-in for me either. One to forget. Invariant
    1. I went down the OBE/MBE/CBE route for a while – but none made sense. Only got Pi Dog, as “quiet” is invariably “P” or “Sh” and the latter didn’t fit.
       1. Yes, should have got Pi from the cryptic, but the ‘originally’ CoH bait was just too tempting/sneaky
    2. or maybe ‘ho-dog’ is something like ho-bo which is a vagrant.Thught it might be a US term
       1. Ho-dog would sound somewhat derogatory in the US I’d think – but not the vagrant kind.
21. Tough one, this. Guessed PI-DOG from clue (NHO). DNK COATI, so a DNF. I dislike clues like 19a which contain bits of a name.
22. Finished in 17 minutes which I would normally be reasonably happy with, but fell into the CAPE/COPE trap. Couldn’t parse CAPE of course. Had never heard of PI DOG but it had to be correct. Luckily Mimi is one of the few operatic heroines I knew but even so I was slow to crack 10dn. A tricky one IMO.

    FOI – 10ac MAT (with a MER at the missing second t)
    LOI – 10dn MIMICKING
    COD – Nothing really stood out today. Quite liked COOLER, MADCAP and SHAKEN

23. ….but not for most QC solvers. I knew everything, and am currently 8th on the leaderboard. However, I realised early on that it wasn’t one for the faint-hearted. The clueing is perfectly fair, and it’s a rewarding solving lesson for the less experienced.

    FOI MADCAP
    LOI COOLER
    COD GENTRY
    TIME 3:36

24. Think I am finally going to give this game up. It is too depressing a way to start the week with puzzles that are too hard for us novices. I will stick to sudoku. If the setters really want to encourage people start with some easy puzzles with the hard ones coming at the end of the week.

    That is just my view but it is interesting to see very view new commenters which suggest this QC is not encouraging new people.

    1. I agree with you about the difficulty.

       If this is to remain a QC, which I love doing, I don’t want the setters to keep trying to edge me towards the more difficult one. I am happy where I am!

       Please don’t go, though, maybe the message will get through …

       Diana

       Edited at 2020-11-23 01:46 pm (UTC)

       1. I agree with you
    2. Yep, I found this tough today. But others romped through it, and tomorrow might well be the reverse. That’s why I keep doing ’em, and keep coming here.
25. NHO of PI DOG or COATI, and COATI was my LOI and took a while.

    Otherwise all OK, if a bit slow in places (for me at least)

    10:18.

26. I should really have logged a DNF as I found this very heavy going. As many others, I DNK COATI or PI-DOG, and was sure MATTE or MATT was the correct spelling. UP=on horseback was new, and GK=Greek, rather than GR, etc etc.

    I almost fared better with the 15×15, where I was three short in 60-ish minutes.

    COD COOLER, although I did google to see if CHICER was some famous prison I had not heard of.

27. Definitely too hard for me today. DNF as I couldn’t get the PI-Dog/cup pair at all. Went for COH, as I explained above. NHO pi-dog and was looking for some variation on ho-bo.
    Knew goshawk, coati and cope (having seen one not that long ago in a cathedral somewhere).
    Tried to lift and separate ‘Bath & Wells’, which was, in this case, a mistake (got there eventually).
    Had heard of ADC but didn’t connect with a general, so that was a struggle.

    Also Struggled with ‘carpentry’ and needed the blog to parse.

    Also, I don’t think I’ve come across ‘king’ for ‘leading man’ before, although I did think of ‘Mimi’ from La Boheme as I think that’s come up before.

    Having looked back, I’ve been doing the QC for three years or so now and I’m still struggling with them and nowhere near moving on to the 15×15. Oh well…

    Edited at 2020-11-23 03:07 pm (UTC)

    1. We both fell for the same CoH trap, so you have my (full) sympathy.
28. Telegraph cryptic is free today and doable. Through their puzzles site.
    1. Didn’t know that – thought it was all paywall. Will have a look.
29. Try the Guardian 15×15 today, you’ll find it very accessible.
    1. Thanks for all the helpful pointers. Plymouthian
30. We also found this hard, although the two long clues were fairly easy. A puzzle to rely on careful wordplay.
31. I came to this very late under pressure and really wasn’t in the mood. Found it tough and a bit too clever-clever for a QC. I was slow but almost avoided the SCC and parsed it all (thanks jackkt for adding extra detail). All my points have been made above by others (especially pi-dog ☹️🙄) so I can put this to bed without further ado and get on with something a bit more satisfying. John M.

    Edited at 2020-11-23 08:41 pm (UTC)

32. NHO pi dog but there seemed no other possible answer – so we’ve learned something today. Continuing with our run of interruptions we don’t have a time for today but it wasn’t a fast finish (maybe 25 mins??). Thanks to Orpheus for keeping us on our toes.

    FOI: cooler
    LOI: pi dog
    COD: carpentry

    Thanks to Jackkt for the blog.

33. I thought that this was an appalling Quick Cryptic.
    It didn’t help that I couldn’t get Cooler, but there was so much not to like in this for me.
    I know that Orpheus really gets me most times but this was too much. Nothing to do with Monday or Friday etc..
    I’m not really interested in learning that ADC is a crossword abbreviation for Aide de Camp…meaning General’s assistants – even though I guessed Madcap after 5 minutes but couldn’t see why….
    Pi-Dog??!!! From the wordplay I had that but didn’t put it in…..
    Oldster??!!! Last used in 1950 perhaps???
    Compact meaning agreement?? Yes I know it is in the dictionary….I enter into compacts every day…?
    Coati – an everyday word that rolls off the tongue.
    See??? Gets me every time – so annoying – is this a modern word?? Maybe, but hmmm
    Mimi – oh well even though I have been to see La Boheme a few years back it’s not one that I dredged up in this context.
    I got Mat and moved on but that was on the border too!!
    Cope/cape hmm
    There were so many tricky, obscure, antiquated clues here is that my point is that it wasn’t a Quick Cryptic in my opinion.
    Sorry, I’m sure that this makes me PNG…

    This is probably a cry at my own I adequacies after many years of trying these…and I have now done at least one thousand….but this is how I feel…

    Sorry and thanks all
    John

    1. Yes, this one seems to have caused more people grief than I ever imagined when writing the blog. It’s very difficult if not impossible for bloggers to forecast such things accurately and I imagine that setters and editors are in the same boat.

       It might be comparatively easy to produce a puzzle every day that’s dead simple to solve but I don’t think that would be very satisfying and the wider audience would soon get bored and stop doing it, so I guess there has to be a range some of which will be more of a challenge than others. And over a period of, say, a week, it ought to even out with something to please everyone.

       1. Thanks for the reply Jack – I appreciate all of your considerable efforts and enthusiasm and I didn’t even realise that it was your blog (even though I read it) – my comments were in no way related to any of yours… I agree that we all need a challenge but I suppose there were too many things in this crossword for me to get to grips with at the same time.
          I suppose I just won’t ever be making the 15×15 jump because I just don’t have that temperament or vocabulary or knowledge – and so I got annoyed at this one!
          Kind regards
       2. With 68 comments, so far, it was clearly a controversial QC!
34. Tough but doable eventually (53:25), and I’d prefer a puzzle like this where you can at least slowly piece together the unknowns, than one where everything goes in quickly except for one or two words which take half an hour on their own. Always good to learn a few things too and today I learnt PI-DOG, COPE (thought of cape, but decided a cloak called a cope was more likely than manage=cape), ADC and Mimi. Thanks Orpheus and Jack.
35. I’m absolutely with Heathrow Express here. I get crosswords have to be contrived but this felt like a smooth rockface with no handholds. Reading the blog (many thanks) just made me crotchetier. How is one supposed to get Vi as a girl’s name? I’m ancient and nobody of even my generation was called Vi. On so many I could see how the clue was constructed but go no further. Unless you are ex-military ADC just isn’t going to enter the brain. I thought a see was a diocese without a bishop so despite it being the obvious answer I was unhappy. Not all slogs are uphill! 21d broke the convention of 20ac, leading me on an x-rated Latin chase. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. BFM.
36. Think I am finally going to give this game up. It is too depressing a way to start the week with puzzles that are too hard for us novices. I will stick to sudoku. If the setters really want to encourage people start with some easy puzzles with the hard ones coming at the end of the week.

    That is just my view but it is interesting to see very view new commenters which suggest this QC is not encouraging new people.

37. liked 1A “more voguish jail?(6)”

Comments are closed.