Times Quick Cryptic 1551 by Izetti – he’s back!

Author   ChrisPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

Some class stuff in here which I found really entertaining. Maybe a stretch for newer solvers (it was for me!).
Solving crosswords is often down to your general knowledge and whether yours is lucky enough to match up with the setter’s attempt to outwit you. Mine held up pretty well here against a barrage of long anagrams and I was doing well after 9 minutes with only two to go. However, all things, often, come to an end and the last two, 22ac and 13dn, not only crossed a letter but also crossed me over into that wasteland of helpless staring at blank squares. 22ac was first to fall after my GK picked itself up off the floor and gave a faint nod of approval to confirm the wordplay. 13dn stood defiantly waving its empty squares at me, daring me to place the remaining letters in the least random manner possible. That this proved successful, after 14 minutes, was a complete surprise.

For what they’re worth, here are my meanderings.

ACROSS
1. Lord too soon meeting premature end (4)
EARL – too soon – early – meeting premature end (EARL)y.
3. Greek character, very loud, having shown the way, is to be toned down (7)
MUFFLED – Greek character (MU), very loud (FF), having shown the way (LED).
8. A lonely OAP got involved in branch of earth science (13)
PALAEONTOLOGY – anagram (involved) of A LONELY OAP GOT. It took several goes before I was happy with the order of the bowels oops – vowels.
9. I hate that element of roughness! (3)
UGH – element of ro(UGH)ness.
10. Pack bits and bobs? (5)
STUFF – double definition.
12. Section of good chaps getting put outside (7)
SEGMENT – good and chaps (G MEN) getting put (SET) outside.
14. Come to the throne maybe and do well (7)
SUCCEED – double definition.
16. Big US gangster bringing death (5)
FATAL – big (FAT), US gangster (AL).
17. First-class introduction to rousing song (3)
AIR – first-class (AI), (R)ousing.
20. Being identified, somehow hide in disgust (13)
DISTINGUISHED – anagram (somehow) of HIDE IN DISGUST.
21. Academic class remains unruly (7)
SEMINAR – anagram (unruly) of REMAINS.
22. Refuse to walk endlessly (4)
MARC – to walk – march- endlessly (MARC)h. I feel this may have come up before otherwise I’m not sure how I’d have even the faintest inkling. Marc is the remains (refuse) of pressed grapes or other fruit used in wine making.
DOWN
1. Stress English politician possesses — one collapses finally (8)
EMPHASIS – English (E), politician (MP), possesses (HAS) one (I), collapse(S). Phew – lots of glue required to fit that lot together.
2. Go round as headless comic (4)
ROLL – headless comic d(ROLL). Comic as in remark rather than comedian.
3. Some like June and Maureen having short time in health organisation (6)
MONTHS – Maureen (MO), short time (T) inside health organisation (NHS).
4. Under new management, a farm is for e.g. producing dairy product (7,5)
FROMAGE FRAIS – anagram (under new management – excellent!) of A FARM IS FOR EG.
5. One toils, getting badly treated — it’s most stupid (8)
LOONIEST – anagram (getting badly treated) of ONE TOILS.
6. Times with hold-ups putting the Spanish off (4)
DAYS – hold ups – delays – putting the Spanish (EL) off (D)el(AYS).
7. Somehow got influence, bending the knee (12)
GENUFLECTION – anagram (somehow) of GOT INFLUENCE.
11. A Parisian leading a hundred crazy males in America (5,3)
UNCLE SAM – a Parisian (UN), a hundred (C), anagram (crazy) of MALES.
13. One in mad cult troubles about certain religious writings (8)
TALMUDIC – ONE (I) inside an anagram (troubles) of MAD CULT. For those, like me, who are a trifle baffled here – The Talmud is the collection of ancient Jewish laws which governs the religious and non-religious life of Orthodox Jews. Had to end ‘IC’ but in which order to throw in the other 3?
15. A word of warning — daughter has very negative emotion (6)
DANGER – daughter (D), very negative emotion (ANGER).
18. Appeal to Desmond, offering some poetry (4)
ODES – appeal to Desmond (O! DES). Thanks to paanliv below who have pointed out that this is also a hidden clue – offering some of appeal t(O DES)mond.
19. TV doctor with a call for restraint (4)
WHOA – TV doctor (WHO) with a (A).

50 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic 1551 by Izetti – he’s back!”

  1. Slowed down a bunch by 4d, which I’d never heard of–in English, anyway. I wasted a lot of time trying to think of a word other than FRUIT–an unlikely dairy product–until I finally thought it might not be an English word. I can see how 13d could be a problem if you don’t know of the Talmud. 8:51.
  2. 10 minutes, but only just. TALMUDIC, MARC and WHOA very nearly did for me, ganging up against me in the SE corner. Re 8ac, Chris, I’m glad your ‘bowels’ are in order!

    Edited at 2020-02-18 06:21 am (UTC)

  3. Marc is hard, talmudic is ridiculous for a qc, and surprised the setter can’t think of a better clue than an anagram to clue an arguably obscure word.

    My suggestion:
    Short speech on soil initially inspires catholic about religious writings.

    Edited at 2020-02-18 07:26 am (UTC)

    1. Well, one man’s GK is another man’s esoterica, but I do get the sense from seeing what various commenters have said they don’t know that the setters generally set the GK bar lower than this. Still, knowing TALMUD(IC), I found the clue easier to solve than I would have yours (which needs a capital C).
  4. Just over half an hour which is okay for me. Not heard of MARC but eventually figured it out once I’d got WHOA. But I did know TALMUDIC.
  5. 24 minutes, four over target with the last four spent on MARC, combining an alphabet trawl with visits to Chambers. Like Chris, I had a sense of deja vue once I saw the definition, so it may have come up before. Apart from that I thought that there were too many anagrams, but thanks to Izetti and Chris.

    Brian

  6. I think your clue for TALMUDIC is a lot harder than Izetti’s, flash!

    There have been a few gentle puzzles from the Don of late but this one was definitely in the upper range. Fortunately I had my anagram hat on and was home and hosed in only 1.3 Kevins for an Excellent Day. I was so unsure of the vowel order at 8ac that I had to fill it in from the back, and MARC went in with a bit of a shrug – although I drink marc every now and then, and know what it’s made from (which is often called “pomace”), it didn’t really occur to me that that substance could be defined as “refuse”!

    Marc trivia – most marcs are caramel coloured, but Marc d’Alsace is clear, like grappa. Marc is still called “eau de vie” because its inventor, a French doctor in the C14 or thereabouts, thought it would prolong life.

    Thanks Izetti and Chris.

    Templar

    Edited at 2020-02-18 08:48 am (UTC)

    2. Not saying your etymology is wrong .. but it is surprising given that several different drinks use exactly the same name.. eg the Gaelic word for whisky, or akvavit in Sweden, or aqua vita in several countries…
  7. As noted, a harder puzzle from Izetti today. FOI was AIR followed by UGH so I was looking for ways in. In fact I generally understood clearly what was needed;it was just a matter of executing as in my LOI 8a which took me ages to tick off all the letters, particularly the vowels from the anagrist.
    I don’t think Talmud is that obscure and we have fromage frais in the fridge, but I didn’t expect it in a crossword. I think MARC is obscure but I learnt it recently from a puzzle. One for the long list of words which I recommend to solvers.
    18:26 in the end. Good stuff from Izetti.
    David
  8. Very pleased to have finished this – a rare occurrence. Like others, 13d and 22a last ones in. Marc only came after checking – never heard of it and a bit too much for a qc I think.
    COD 18d, made me smile.
    Bother, no time as I put one letter in wrong, but I think it was my fastest to date.
    Diana
  9. Thanks to Izetti, blogger and all you lot for comments, I always read and enjoy them.
    D
  10. 22 minutes for me, which for an Izetti puzzle is longer than it should have been. Last two in were 13d and 23a (where I initially tried to make {t}RAMP work), and they probably accounted for 4 or 5 minutes despite my being familiar with each answer. 6d had to be DAYS, but I couldn’t parse it and ended up as a biff, so thanks for explaining it Chris.
  11. I liked this. Not easy but a fair challenge with some tricky twists in the SE (WHOA, MARC) although I found TALMUDIC jumped out at me after getting a couple of crossers. FROMAGE FRAIS was my COD for a frustrating anagram. I liked GENUFLECTION and MONTHS. I used to think I could spell but PALAEONTOLOGY needed a check. I then got ROLL (my LOI). Slow but, with a similar time to rotter, I was still well within 3K so acceptable. Many thanks to Izetti for a cracker and to Chris for an entertaining blog (which I will now revisit). John M.
    P.s. It should be good (not god) in your comment on 12a, Chris.

    Edited at 2020-02-18 09:59 am (UTC)

    2. You just reminded me of a line from Archibald Macleish, I forget where:
      If God is God he is not good;
      If God is good he is not God;
      Take the even, take the odd.
      1. 🙂 Thanks.
        I searched and found the whole thing and its source under: ON JOB’S DILEMMA: GOD’S INJUSTICE
        I added a link here but the system marked it as spam so I deleted my earlier comment.
        John M

        Edited at 2020-02-18 12:50 pm (UTC)

          1. That’s it. So I wonder why the system told me it was spam when I did the same thing? John.

            Edited at 2020-02-18 01:51 pm (UTC)

  12. A top quality puzzle with lots of excellent surfaces. Unlike Templar I seemed to have mislaid my anagram hat today so struggled over 3 of the 4 long anagrams (the exception being FROMAGE FRAIS). I had no problem with TALMUDIC but had to resort to an alphabet trawl for LOI MARC, eventually finishing in 18.35.
    Thanks to Chris
  13. I was fortunate to have come across MARC before, so when TALMUDIC fell, I was able to confidently insert it. WHOA finished off the proceedings. FROMAGE FRAIS took a while! I was 6 or 7 minutes into this puzzle with less than half done, but eventually got over the line in 11:42. A tough workout from Izetti. Thanks for the blog Chris.
  14. ….with precisely one second to spare. Unarguably Izetti’s toughest QC offering for many a day.

    FOI MUFFLED
    LOI ROLL
    COD MARC

      2. Phil’s target is realistic for him but it is indecently quick and so (following one of the “should people post their times?” debates which break out every six months or so) he very politely decided to stop posting his actual times because they are so damn fast that they may well discourage beginners.
        1. I remember, and my question was largely rhetorical; I wish he’d tell us his times, but that’s up to him. (Actually, one can find his times on the club leaderboards, although for some reason not today’s.) As for discouraging beginners, any beginner who is discouraged by the performance of experts should simply get over it, or consider some other activity where they can shine immediately.
      3. The other point to note is that I typically solve on paper, then replicate the result online later. Often, this happens much later in the day (or not at all) due to the vagaries of public WiFi when I’m away from home. Today’s has now been posted.
  15. Knew TALMUDIC and eventually figured out the spelling. MARC is a new one to me and defeated me.
    PlayUpPompey
  16. Yay! Finished with a struggle in the SE corner. Thanks to all the help, am slowly improving. Did not parse days, though.
  17. Of alphabet trawling for MARC, brought me in quicker than yesterday at 11:06, but I was being dense yesterday. I very nearly gave up on MARC, trawling for the initial letter proved useless, but then trawled for the possible 3rd letter, which was more productive.
  19. Happy to have finished what I thought was a tricky Izetti puzzle in 26mins. Quite lucky in that I had most of the required GK, and have also tried different Marcs from several France regions (though in truth very few of them twice…) Best of all, I overcame a mental block and finally managed to spot Who for Doctor straight away (granted, the TV bit was a huge hint). My favourite today was 3ac Muffled, a good example of a build up clue. Invariant
  20. Afraid I DNF – getting stumped by the SE corner of “Talmudic” and “Marc”. Weirdly I did ponder “Marc” (being a reduction of March) – but I didn’t have the GK to be confident.

    A pity really as I got all the rest in about 20 mins which is good for me for an Izetti – but obviously there was a sting in the tail!

    FOI – 1ac “Lord”
    COD – 3dn “Months”

    Thanks as usual…

  21. My solving time and last two in were on a par with our esteemed blogger Chris. Unlike Chris I had to check TALMUDIC was a word before submitting. In between I also had to play around with the spelling of PALAEONTOLOGY (paleontology came up short) and guessed at the order of the first two consonants of GENUFLECTION. A tough one today that once again highlighted my lack of GK and spelling ineptitude. Thanks all.
  22. Quite pleased to finish within our 30m target, but with help for 22a, marc which was new to us. Joined those who struggled with the spelling of 8a, and 13d. An enjoyable solve, thanks to Izetti and all contributors above.
  23. Discussed previously Kevin. My target is 5 minutes, and I only post my time if it’s less than 3 minutes or more than 6.
  24. I was surprised to see it was only 26 minutes after I was very absorbed by what seemed like an hour. Fromage took too long having seen Frais could fit and having seen flection had to work out Genu from the remains..
    but as others Talmudic looked right but did not know so had to check and then LOI Marc I had suspected but again had to check since not heard of.
    Please to have got Months – the sort of clue that used to send me running…
    Also nice that 1a and 1d were gentle…
    Thanks all
    John George
  25. I parsed 18d the same way as you Chris, but my wife pointed out it is actually a hidden word (tO DESmond), two clues for the price of one! Assuming it was intentional, too clever to go without comment I thought.
    1. Good spot. It’s not a normal hidden as a word is completely left out – but this is an Izetti! I’ll update the blog.
  26. I really enjoyed this puzzle. Lots of delightful clues. I usually struggle with long anagrams but these were fine. I had never heard of MARC so DNF but that didn’t spoil my enjoyment. Thank you Izetti and Chris.
    Blue Stocking
  27. I thought some of the surfaces were a little bit awkward today, but it was a great workout. Marc de Champagne was one of the first drinks I had when I was a lad in the early 1960s in the back of a van near Avenay, Val d’Or, going up the mountain to help the vendange for a family friend’s wine. I later got to tread the grapes barefoot in an old fashioned vat. His Champagne was stocked in the French Army officers’s club in Epernay, and used in the vintage Krug cuvée some years. Memories!
    1. Memories indeed – Madame Joseph K., John Arlott and the caves where she helped many British pilots get back to Blighty! Cheers!
  28. Hear! Hear! I don’t think Jesse Owens, Usain Bolt or Lewis Hamilton have discouraged anyone by being so damn fast. (Hitler perhaps!) We must respect our Time Lords.
  29. This wasn’t too bad for an Izetti. I was over the line in 8.45 as FROMAGE FRAIS is in my vocab as is MARC but not GENUFLECTION.

    I wanted to be an 8ac but I didn’t make the grade for Aberystwyth.

    FOI 1dn EMPHASIS

    LOI 22ac MARC

    COD 13dn TALMUDIC

    WOD 4dn FROMAGE FRAIS

    I never knew the UNCLE SAM was Parisian, but then so is The Statue of Liberty!

  30. That my GK happened to include Talmud and Marc. Spelling of palaeontology a struggle. Pleased with 47 mins and no aids.
  31. Grrrrrrrrr
    Marc is just nonsense. Leave aside the actual clue. March does not mean walk. Nowhere close. So – for those of us who’ve never heard of marc , you need better wordplay than that.
  32. Quite close, actually; ‘march’ is a hyponym of ‘walk’, so ‘walk’ is a perfectly acceptable definition for MARCH.

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