Times Cryptic 28130

Posted on Categories Daily Cryptic

Solving time: 31 minutes

As usual definitions are underlined in bold italics, {deletions and substitutions are in curly brackets} and [anagrinds, containment, reversal and other indicators in square ones]. I usually omit all reference to positional indicators unless there is a specific point that requires clarification.

1 Relaxed-sounding, select member of order (9)
CARM sounds like “calm” (relaxed), ELITE (select). Friars or nuns.
6 Tropical lake originally accommodating green fish? (5)
T{ropical} + L{ake} [originally] containing [accommodating] RAW (green – uncured, undried, uncooked foodstuff)
9 Old measure of copper coin (5)
CU (copper), BIT (coin). Approximately equal to the length of the forearm.
10 Bird female medic observed in expanse of water (9)
SHE (female), then DR (medic) contained by [observed in] LAKE (expanse of water)
11 Analgesic fellow cathedral priest talked of (7)
CO (fellow – as in co-director) then DEINE sounds like [talked of] “dean” (cathedral priest)
12 A Native American possessing a good area of land (7)
A, CREE (Native American) containing [possessing] A + G (good)
13 Taking in too much about 17th-cent relaxation of religious restraints (14)
OVER (about), INDULGENCE (17th-cent relaxation of religious restraints). I’m out of my depth on the specifics here but I think the following taken from SOED covers the religious angle: indulgence – a grant of religious liberties, as special favours rather than legal rights, to Nonconformists. M17. Declaration of Indulgence a proclamation of religious liberties; esp. either of those made in Scotland under Charles II in 1672 and James II (VII) in 1687.
17 Girl’s gruff sound fast brought about this writer’s grumpiness (14)
DI’S (girl’s), GRUNT (gruff sound), then LENT (fast) containing [brought about] ME (this writer)
21 Luxurious work university hired out (7)
OP (work), U (university), LENT (hired out)
23 Despicable    dope! (3-4)
Two meanings, the second being important, possibly secret, information
25 Specific time you and I finally see man on board (9)
WE (you and I), {se}E [finally], KNIGHT (man on board). A rather weak definition.
26 Your compiler’s turn to catch a butterfly, perhaps (5)
I’M (your compiler’s) + GO (turn) contains [to catch] A. The final fully developed form of an insect after passing through all stages of metamorphosis.
27 Recoil, finding head of caterpillar in drink (5)
C{aterpillar} [head] contained by [in] WINE (drink)
28 Act has pronounced polish, one may admit (9)
TURN (act – e.g. in a variety show), STILE sounds like [pronounced] “style” (polish). I wonder if that’s what they’re called around the world?
1 Raise hoodie, perhaps, for early morning call (4,4)
COCK (raise), CROW (hoodie, perhaps). I vaguely knew of the hooded crow and its nickname.
2 Way to receive honour, wearing formal garb (5)
RD (way) contains [to receive] OBE (honour – Officer of the Order of the British Empire)
3 Weaving together in French town, initially moaning audibly (9)
EN (in, French), T{own} [initially], then WINING sounds like [audibly] “whining” [moaning]
4 Set represented, after trendy promotion, as an alternative (7)
IN (trendy), anagram [re-presented] of SET, then AD (promotion)
5 Stare fixedly at London landmark before dance (7)
EYE (London landmark aka the Millennium Wheel observation platform), BALL (dance)
6 Upset routine, holding party in royal house (5)
RUT (routine) reversed [upset], containing [holding] DO (party)
7 A hanging drapery protecting Henry in fall (9)
AVALANCE (hanging drapery often covering the base of a bed) containing [protecting] H (Henry)
8 Prevaricated over limits of Elgar’s vocal works (6)
LIED (prevaricated), E{lgar}R [limits of…]
14 Hedonist‘s heroic article about Yorkshire river (9)
EPIC (heroic) + AN (article) containing [about] URE (Yorkshire river)
15 Alpine plant Swedes lie about (9)
Anagram [about] of SWEDES LIE. Also the name of the traditonal Austrian folk song, actually written in 1959 by Rodgers & Hammerstein. It was to be the very last song of their long collaboration.
16 Laurel placed on top of Bob’s carriage (8)
STAN (Laurel), HOPE (Bob), Two Brits who went to America and made the big-time as comedians in a bygone era. This was in another puzzle only last week.
18 Out of bed, the worse for wear, and tetchy (7)
UP (out of bed), TIGHT (the worse for wear – drunk)
19 Allowed to set up brilliant communications satellite (7)
LET (allowed) reversed [set up], STAR (brilliant – adj). The launch of the original ‘Telstar’ in 1962 was celebrated by this hit from The Tornados. It went No 1 in the charts on both sides of the Atlantic in the same week. As I remember it, the breakthrough communications satellite brought us grainy black-and-white TV pictures live from America but I’ve since learned that the images were in colour so perhaps they would have looked better if colour TV had been available in the UK at the time. ‘Telstar’ was only in alignment for transatlantic exchanges for a brief period at a time – maybe only up to an hour – but in 1965 came the ‘Early Bird’ satellite which hovered in the right position and high enough in space to allow 24 hour broadcasting. The Tornados tried to repeat their chart success, coming up with this offering in tribute, but it wasn’t to be. It reached #49 in one UK chart but that was its limit.
20 Wife in London area that hurt child’s dog (3-3)
W (wife) contained by [in] BOW (London area),  OW (that hurt!)
22 Man from part of Holstein regularly going north (5)
Hidden (part of) and reversed [going north] in {Holst}EIN RE{gularly}. The fastest milkman in the West!
24 Right character to house a stripy African ruminant (5)
OK (right) + PI (character – Greek letter) containing [to house] A

90 comments on “Times Cryptic 28130”

  1. 21 mins for me, so much more Mondayish today than it was yesterday. I had no idea about the indulgence stuff but with the definition and 7 checkers it had to be.
  2. I wasted some time taking ‘female’=F at 10ac, and ‘regularly’=every other letter at 22d. I was puzzled by the ’17th-cent’ at 13ac, since the only indulgence I knew was medieval, one of the church practices Luther and others objected to. The definition seemed odd, too; but then I didn’t know of the clue’s 17th-century indulgences. DNK the ‘hoodie’. A turnstile is called a turnstile in the US.
  3. Monday’s crossword a day late. Not held up by the NHO indulgence or the hooded crow’s nickname. I like the word disgruntlement; seeing it makes me very gruntled. Slightly surprised when 3 of the first 5 clues encountered were homophones, but they soon gave way to a more normal mix.
  4. ’I’ve got a little cat, and I’m very fond of that, but I’d rather have a Bow-Wow-Wow! ‘ By Joseph Tabrar, 1892. 20dn my WOD.

    Time 28 minutes

    FOI 9ac CUBIT

    LOI 8dn LIEDER

    COD 1dn COCK-CROW — in my neck of the woods the hooded crows are/were known as ’uddies’ and crow-pie was on the menu, as was rook-pie. Times was ‘ard and so was Rookie Allen, a local farmer.‘Four and twenty black birds baked in a pie!’

    As noted Mr. Stanley Hope is out-and-about once more, as is Mr. Twining, who started out as a ‘barista’, but soon turned to tea at his London Coffee House. Meldrewpedia.

    Edited at 2021-11-09 06:38 am (UTC)

  5. Fast and fun solve for me, felt really in the zone, FOIs TRAWL and CUBIT, then down to a full bottom-half completion before getting much else up top. Then steady progress through the puzzle finishing in the NW corner which was unlocked by CARMELITE. LOI INSTEAD, but…

    …I had LIEDES for 8d – an unknown to me – because the definition part of the clue was plural “vocal works” and “limits of Elgar’s” was ambiguous. Not fair in my humble opinion, depriving me of my second fastest-ever completion. Actually had LIED = song on my learning list from a previous failure here, but no way was I going to guess a German plural.

    Anyway, I’ll never forget him – The Lieder of the Pack!

    1. Pity, what with the almost PB, but I’d suggest you add LIEDER to LIED. It’s common enough in the cryptics (I don’t think you’ll find anyone here complaining about it), and certainly more common in my reading/listening experience than, say, ‘concerti’ (I’ve never come across ‘lieds’). German has I believe 8 plural forms, but I don’t think -ES is among them.

      Edited at 2021-11-09 06:48 am (UTC)

      1. Unless you count certain genitive forms. E.g. ‘the smell of the cheeses’: Das Geruch des Käses
        – Rupert
  6. Like Kevin I spent time with F = female at 10A, and as I had all the checkers except INSTEAD I was convinced the bird was a FIELDFARE. Eventually I dismissed this and the INFIELD it would have led to at 4D to squeak in under 10 minutes.

    1. I too was in FIELDFARE country for a short while. Lovely bird.
      I’ll pootle off! Meldrew
    2. I actually was so convinced by FIELDFARE even though the clue made no sense, that I submitted with it and INFIELD.
  7. When I think of ERNIE, I don’t think of Benny Hill, I think of ERNIE (Electronic Random Number Indicator Equipment) which was what chose the original winning Premium Bond numbers…and I still have mine!
  8. Indulgences known to me from Scott’s ‘Old Mortality’, set in Scotland in the reign of Charles II. Not that I really needed to know it for the clue, but it made me feel educated.

    16 minutes, with the last 2 or 3 spent on TURNSTILE.

  9. 8:10. No problems this morning, and no out-and-out unknowns, although the crow and the satellite were only vaguely familiar, and I wouldn’t have been able to tell you exactly what ‘17th cent’ was referring to in 13ac.
    Your comment about the satellite reminded me of school physics: we had to be able to demonstrate the altitude of a geostationary satellite, which is a constant. The question came up quite often in exams and was generally considered free marks because it was perfectly easy to memorise the answer. Of course I can’t remember a thing about it now.
    1. The altitude is 35786 km, (or orbital radius 42164 km if you prefer) with an orbital period of 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds, to match the sidereal rotation of the Earth. I’m such a sad bugger I have these figures committed to memory and don’t have to look them up. Please have pity for this poor geek.
    OVERINDULGENCE in birds a mistake
    Why not “Speed Date” INSTEAD?
    They’d rather mess with my head
    What’s the LOW DOWN? Please give me a break

    And COCKCROW’s a terrible clue
    Containing not one bird but two
    Almost every WEEKNIGHT
    Our setters are making me blue

    P.S. Epic blogging on TELSTAR, which cheered me up a bit — thanks!

  11. 27 minutes with LOI OKAPI. COD to CARMELITE. I came to OVERINDULGENCE by the 16th century and Tetzel selling them to build St Peter’s before remembering the Declaration of Indulgence a century later. Two other potential ear worms today as well as the title to this post. The second is the Tornados’ Telstar. They backed Billy Fury for a while. The third is EDELWEISS. Back in the mid sixties, I had a vacation job at the Cambridge Hall, Southport with the lowlight of the week being Uncle Charlie’s Children’s Party. He was a jazz musician whose career had nosedived. The biggest horror of that night was the talent competition, when girl after girl in their best party frocks would get up on to the stage to sing Edelweiss. And the next night it would be the wrestling! That and the brass band concert on Sundays were both brilliant. Nice middle of the road puzzle. Thank you Jack and setter.

    Edited at 2021-11-09 08:27 am (UTC)

  12. … Would be a normal thing
    Did not ourselves the Cubits warp
    For fear to be a King.

    25 mins pre-brekker after I worked out how to spell Codeine and decided Tecol wasn’t a fish.
    The 14-letter ones held me up.
    Thanks setter and J.

  13. 25:13 — and for me that’s a personal best. FOI CUBIT, LOI CARMELITE. I vaguely recall one of Chaucers pilgrims made his living selling indulgences
  14. I did the Times crossword in my twenties, and returned to it in my fifties. Today was a lifetime best! This was undoubtedly helped by EDELWEISS, STANHOPE and LIEDER appearing recently, either here or in another respected newspaper.

    One of my great grandfathers never held down a proper job, but lived by playing pub piano and making up tunes. The family story says that he wrote ‘Daddy wouldn’t buy me a BOW-WOW’, but sold it for a pittance.

    Thanks jack, particularly for the memory of Telstar, and thanks to setter also.

  15. 10:41 DNK the historical INDULGENCE and spent some time trying in vain to justify FIELDFARE for 10A when missing only the first checker. Otherwise fairly standard fare.
  16. 30 mins so a good time for me. Very enjoyable, just tricky enough in parts with a few easier ones for relief. I liked the two long clues, once I’d finally worked them out! TELSTAR ninja’d as mentioned.

    The setter obviously had an excess of Ws in his/her bag: I counted 8 of them. Not bad for a four-pointer in Scrabble.

    DNK the indulgence thingy, so thank you Jack for that and the blog. Setter too.

  17. …which is my second fastest ever. Missed a PB by half a minute. Lots of joyful biffs with solving following close behind, and fun all the way. Even the NHOs (the birds!) went in with blithe surety. COD to DISGRUNTLEMENT which is the opposite of how Infee after this. Thanks setter and Jack.
  18. 32 but no HOPE after STAN, so 2-lettered DNF. Had NHO the carriage. SHELDRAKE & OVERINDULGENCE ok. As others have said, a bit Momma & Papa-ish Monday, Monday.
  19. AVALANCHE took me the longest, as I was trying to fit ‘hal’ into it rather than just H for Henry. I also wasn’t 100% sure that prevaricated = lied, which held up LIEDER until I got TRAWL and was left with no alternative. Otherwise this was pretty quick for me.

    FOI Acreage
    LOI Avalance
    COD Disgruntlement

  20. Lot of deja vue about this crossword … imago, stanhope, lieder, Tudor have all appeared within the last week or so.

    Indulgences, basically a money-spinning racket. Clergy pretending to have divine powers in return for money.

    I remember the Tornadoes’ Telstar very well Jack, but have absolutely no recollection at all of the Early Bird, so that was interesting to hear, thanks

    1. I remembered that it existed but had no recollection when I played the link. I probably heard it at the time but as it barely charted it wouldn’t have been played much on radio.
  21. After pink typos in both the concise and QC, I was relieved to pass the post here completely green.

    After not getting much in my first run through of the acrosses, the downs largely filled themselves in making the remaining acrosses simpler to fill in. My only problem patch was in the NE corner where TRAWL, AVALANCHE, SHELDRAKE and LIEDER were the last in, in that order.

  22. Great to see this word used correctly! So many people (especially politicians)seem to confuse it with procrastinate. Steady 15.50 today and a most enjoyable solve.
  23. Pretty straightforward apart from my LOI, 1 across. The problem is that where I live we have 26 letters in the alphabet, including ‘r’.
  24. A steady 15 minutes. Perhaps surprisingly, I am more familiar with indulgences as the primary issue Luther pinned to the door at Wittenberg, but that didn’t slow the solving of the clue.
    Otherwise, no issues. BOB-WOW my last in, because I didn’t twig it was a child’s version and wondered whether there was breed of dog like the chow chow which would fit the bill.
  25. Definitely a Monday puzzle on the wrong day. Easiest I can remember for a long time so no need to parse much on the way through (66.7% biff rate). All good clues except for the wince-inducing non-homophone for most English speakers at 1ac. I happen to be an RP speaker who does pronounce BALM and BARM the same way, but most people don’t and the Times should be sensitive to this. Disgruntlement over.
    1. I think it may be time for us to stop taking homophones so seriously. The best ones are bad and therefore amusing. The ones that don’t quite work because of regional differences in speech seldom prevent the solver finding the answer, which after all is the main purpose of the clue. The only way to satisfy everyone would be to avoid them completely, which would be a great loss. Halfway solutions such as putting ‘some say’ in the clue are tiresome and spoil the fun.
      1. Agreed Jack — I love a dodgy homophone, notwithstanding my Northern slant on spoken English.
      2. Totally agree, Jack, I love a good (or bad) homophone. We do need some fun in solving.
  26. As horryd observed, Monday a day late. 23 minutes for this, with the recently seen STANHOPE first in, the entire lower half completed before looking at the top half, and 1a as my LOI. Nothing unknown. Nice to see an African ruminant.

    Edited at 2021-11-09 10:40 am (UTC)

    1. Dear Pip, it wasn’t actually my observation, even though I would wholeheartedly agree.

      On the subject of Okapi, at college back in the sixties, we used to use the expression,
      ‘The okapi’s pyjamas’ instead of ‘the cat’s whiskers’!

  27. A much easier offering today. After becoming enROBED I measured my forearm and EYEBALLed the CODEINE. OVERINDULGENCE didn’t take long. As a child I was indoctrinated by nuns and Christian Brothers, and Plenary Indulgences were on the menu as a get out of jail free card if you could afford to pay off the clergy, as Jerry mentions. My main hold up was AVALANCHE, as I followed Myrtilus into the TECOL trap. An alphabet TRAWL put me right. LOI was INSTEAD, where I had been led up the garden path until I noticed the typo at 1a where I had CARMELAIE! A pleasant romp. 17:55. Thanks setter and Jack.
      1. I would guess it’s a reference to the edict or change to Canon Law that made Indulgences available. Jack may be able to elucidate?
  28. More than usually slow compared to others at 35 minutes. I didn’t know the ‘hoodie’ sense for CROW but the answer was clear from the def. As noted in several posts above, the recent appearance of a few clues such as STANHOPE helped. CARMELITE was my last in too. That 1a – often my nemesis.

    Thanks for the song / tune links, including the unknown “Early Bird”. I think EDELWEISS is so familiar to those of a certain age that no link is required. It will probably help to send me to sleep tonight.

    Thanks to Jack and setter

  29. A little bit off the wavelength today, as this took me a little longer than my average time whereas most others seem to have found it easier than usual.

    Didn’t love the double definition by example in STANHOPE – Laurel for STAN is just about OK, I suppose, but Bob for HOPE surely needs something more.

    1. Unless I’m missing something, ‘stanhope’ cluing CARRIAGE would be a definition by example, but ‘carriage’ cluing STANHOPE is not.
      1. Ah, I wasn’t very clear. I was moaning that ‘Laurel’ for Stan & ‘Bob’ for Hope were clueing by example.

        As you say, a stanhope is an example of a carriage so that’s fine; I’m not as confident that Stan is a type of Laurel or that Hope is a type of Bob. But I’m getting a little more convinced as the day wears on.

  30. DNF — a few short.

    I was so sure that “arras” had to be the hanging drapery. It’s such a crossword-y word. Also could not believe that Striped African Ruminant was not “zebra”. NHO STANHOPE, there are a quite a few obscure carriages to try like Surrey, Brougham etc.

    Pleased to know TELSTAR from Brooke Bond Tea Cards, c1972.

  31. Last one in was TURNSTILE, which took a break away from the puzzle and a PT weights session, to clear my brain fog. Otherwise a steady solve. I had to check The drapery item in Chambers, as I associate valence with its chemical meaning.
    Nice puzzle. Thanks for the detail on ‘Telstar’. I always thought The Shadows did it- maybe as a cover version?
      1. I nearly missed this, thinking it would be a duplication of The Tornados’ version, but it’s a delightful rendition by The Shadows. It doesn’t quite have the novelty of the original but the musicianship is unquestionable. A nice reference to 2001 A Space Odyssey theme in the closing bars too!
        1. Hank B. Marvin was a very talented musician. In 1977 I had the privilege of making a few commercials and covers for EMI’s 20 Golden Greats series: Diana Ross, Cliff, The Hollies, The Shadows and Glen Campbell (which was a disaster). I designed the Shadows’ album sleeve – and persuaded a reluctant Jeffrey Edwards, ex-Royal College, to render the artwork – total simplicity.

          Edited at 2021-11-09 03:35 pm (UTC)

  32. Tripped up on 28ac as I was up for —-SHINE – moonshine?until TELSTAR hove into view – as per merlin 55, Lord Vestey’s Brooke Bond Tea Cards were so educative! But COD 24dn OKAPI.
  33. ….once I recovered from an awful start, solving only two Across clues on my first pass. If I’d done the Down clues first, I’d have been quicker.

    TIME 7:20

  34. 30 minutes. I thought I was going to be very fast for me since the first few answers went in very quickly, but I came back to reality. Agree with Jack about homophones; you could possibly bracket them with spoonerisms as things people need to be less uptight about.
  35. I was on track to break the Ten Minute Barrier but initially put CROW in as the first word for 1 down – which stalled me.


  36. 15:48, so quite quick for me, but a silly typo ( putting a stray Y into 13a ). Like others, I pulled TECOL out of the fishing bag until hit by the AVALANCHE.
  37. 15:50, a fast finish making up for a slow start. The hoodie crow was a new one on me, but LIEDER, OKAPI and IMAGO familiar from crosswords past.
  38. I was also considering TECOL after the NHO Torsk of yesterday, and trying to fit Hal into 7D. Nevertheless, I completed this during the final half hour of a German exam I was invigilating, so it must be close to a PB, though I rarely time myself, as it seems to panic my brain into immediate fogginess! LOI CARMELITE, as many others.
    Gill D
  39. 15.53. A nice straightforward solve to breeze through. Just a small delay trying to justify crow for hoodie, guessed it must be a reference to the hooded crow and trying to dredge up okapi from memory.
  40. If it’s so low on the snitch, how come it took me so long? Bottom half went in super-easy. But then a few slips in the northern hemisphere , like having tecol for the fish tentatively, and thinking 4 down ended in – or , put me off my game. Poor, poor, poor. My daughter teases me for (over-)pronouncing the h in wh- words like wheel. And whine. But are wine and whine really homonyms?
  41. Rather easy! I didn’t get to it last night, so I’m glad to finish before my coffee, even. Last ones the top two, in reverse order. CARME = calm?! If you say so! Ha

    Edited at 2021-11-09 08:26 pm (UTC)

  42. Before addressing the subject header, 17 minutes so I don’t think what I’m going to describe has affected my mental processes too much. Nice to see a couple of 60s tunes make an appearance though Telstar was more of a turn on than the sugary Edelweiss- in my opinion.

    Was trying to fit fieldfare in before realising the answer at 10 ac was sheldrake. There’s a nice cafe on the Wirral just before reaching the Dee . The rest went in pretty easily with my LOI disgruntlement which fits my current mood.

    Re the Subject tag, I had my booster four days ago and had a minor reaction- bit of soreness round the shoulder and feeling a bit weak. My wife would say that’s a permanent condition.
    Today felt nauseous, slight headache, upset tum and real wooziness. No cough, no sore throat and a very minor increase in temperature, nowhere near the red zone.

    Of course it could be down to a dodgy prawn or similar but for a bit of personal research I thought I’d canvass the experience of others.
    Hope that doesn’t break any forum rules, if it does mea culpa. For the avoidance of doubt, this has not and will not put me off getting jags in the future so it’s only curiosity not anti vaccine sentiment.

    1. I had the AZ which is the one that can kill you (1 chance in 5,000,000 or something). Doctors/clinic/news/everyone etc says: if you don’t die or have any adverse reactions from the first jab you won’t have any from the second one. That was my experience.
      Not eligible for a booster until next year, which will be a mRNA vaccine not an AZ. AZ pretty well eradicated from Australia, because there is about that 1 in 5,000,0000 chance of dying. So in the true spirit of humanitarianism, we’re sending all the vaccines which might kill you to poorer countries.
      Covid delta is going to be introduced into WA in February 2022, and things are going to go to shit.
    2. I commented on my booster reaction a week or so ago on the QC blog. For me it was the first 36 hours where I had a similar reaction to you — feverish, weak, tired, and a bloody annoying ear worm that kept me awake all night. That was Pfeizer, but my first two were AZ. Hope you feel better soon. I am now back to normal.
      1. Thanks. Nice to know I am not alone. My history on the vaccines was exactly the same as yours.
    3. No reaction to report, but sorry you may have had one. I’ve seen a couple of Covid cases, including my brother, and I know enough from that to be sure no-one wants it. A sore arm and even a 24-hour man-flu as the price of any degree of protection seems cheap to me, though I understand some may see things differently from me.
    4. I had a Pfeizer booster a couple of weeks ago to follow on from my 2 AZ jabs. The only reaction I had was to feel a bit tired that night and I headed off to bed at 11:45 instead of my usual 1 or 2am. Sorry to hear you had a more difficult experience.
  43. Telstar cheered you up?
    Your question’s answer is: Low down is the soft feathers on a sheldrake’s belly – another bird clue. Are the setters having a lend of you?
  44. Done in two stints so no accurate time, but probably about 50 minutes which would be quickish normal for me.
  45. Not too keen on the non-homophone at 1A, my LOI, but otherwise a non-controversial easy ride. 18 minutes plus change, and definitely more Mondayish than Monday’s this week.
  46. 25:36 and very easy, except for my LOI CODEINE which I simply took a while to see. The only complaint I have with the crossword site is the not pink, but bright orange square I saw after I submitted, but when I saw my score I was relieved. Probably it was the last square I highlighted before I submitted.

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