Times Cryptic 26342

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
I found this one quite tricky and needed a little over an hour to complete it.

As usual deletions are in curly brackets and indicators in square ones.

Across
1 PROOF – PRO (master), OF
4 MACERATE – MACE (official staff), RATE (charge)
8 ELDER STATESMAN – ELDER (presbyter), STATES (announces), MAN (staff)
10 HARMONICA – Anagram [poor] of CHAIR{w}OMAN [cut With]
11 SKEIN – SKIN (hide) around {cops}E [back]. Def: flock on the move. This came up in Dean’s most recent ST puzzle and was discussed here only last week.
12 LOBATE – O{f} + B{arley} [primarily] inside LATE (behind time). Not sure I actually knew this word but it didn’t take much working out.
14 PERCEIVE – Anagram [playing] of PIECE + {e}VER{y} [heart of]
17 GROUNDED – {bein}G [close], ROUNDED (plump)
18 SEA DOG – SEA (main), DOG (trouble)
20 SHEAF – EH (what) inside FAS (notes) all reversed
22 RETICULAR – RE (engineers), {par}TICULAR (attentive to detail) [removing part]. I wondered if RET could  be engineers which would have allowed us to remove all four letters of ‘part’ from the longer word, but I think it’s just the usual sappers and the T remains in place.
24 OVERCOMPENSATE – OVER (past), CO (company), then MPS (members) enclosing E{nglishma}N [case], ATE (worried)
25 INTERNEE – INTER (put under – bury), NEE{d} (obligation) [briefly]
26 SWEPT – {n}EWS (info) [dropping first] reversed [back], PT (part)

Down
1 PSEPHOLOGIST – Anagram [dreadful] of GOSSIP TO HELP. I struggled with this one although it’s a word I have known all my adult life. I would have expected a reference to elections or voting patterns in the definition which appears to be ‘dedicated social scientist’. I suppose ‘dedicated’ suggests that we’re looking for a specific branch of social science but we’re given no indication as to what area that might be.
2 ORDER – Triple definition
3 FORGOTTEN – FOR{d} (ex-president) [briefly], GOTTEN (arrested in US) which also came up very recently and caused some discussion. I can’t quite square it with ‘arrested’ in any of the usual sources but perhaps one of our US correspondents would care to confirm the usage?
4 MATRIX – Sounds like ‘May’ (springtime), ‘tricks’ (is deceptive)
5 COTTAGER – CO (commander), REGATT{a} (meeting on river) [short]. ‘Rural labourer’ is the nearest I can find to ‘countryman’. I don’t think regattas are exclusively river events.
6 RASPS – S (society) inside SPAR (box) reversed [mounting]
7 TRADEWIND – TRADE (business), WIND (blow)
9 UNDERGARMENT – Anagram [out] of GERMAN TURNED
13 BROKE EVEN – B[L->R]OKE (chap) [changing sides – L/R], EVEN (still)
15 CRESCENTS – C{a}R{t}E{l} [every so often], SCENTS (picks up). I like the definition ‘bent ways’.
16 BEAR DOWN – BEARD (Vandyke, say), OWN (particular)
19 STAPLE – STA[B->P]LE (firm/basic). B (British) changes to P (pressure)
21 FURZE – Sounds like [we’re told] “furs” (unethical form of covering). But not unethical if worn by the original owners!
23 LEAVE – LEAVE{s} (pages) [most of]

58 comments on “Times Cryptic 26342”

  1. Also wondered about the removal at 22ac. Too much of a coincidence that “par” is part of “part” I feel. So a likely error?
    Anyone ever heard of FURZE outside Dylan Thomas?
    4dn is an interesting word. I often wonder how the womb gave its name to a rectangular array. Something to do with development no doubt.

    Still, a very satisfying puzzle to complete, given the deceptions along the way. COD probably to HARMONICA for “cut with” as a device.

    Edited at 2016-02-23 01:33 am (UTC)

  2. Knocked most of this over pretty quickly, but struggled miserably toward the end. Needed help for FURZE, MATRIX and MACERATE, and failed to parse COTTAGER.

    I agree with Mctext that Jack is being generous to the setter with the parsing of RETICULAR, but I may be missing something.

    Also agree that HARMONICA gets the COD.

    Thanks setter and Jack.

    Edited at 2016-02-23 01:28 am (UTC)

  3. I gather that ‘gotten’ is now only US usage? But that does nothing to account for ‘arrested’, which is beyond Murcan me. I also wondered (still wonder) about the ‘part’ in RETICULAR. I’ve only heard of FURZE outside Dylan Thomas. I ‘got’ 5d early, but couldn’t make sense of it until the very end; I was taking the R to be ‘river’. So a bit sloppy, but still an enjoyable puzzle.
    1. ODO is quite instructive on ‘got’ vs ‘gotten’. It doesn’t say so, but the latter is becoming common in Aust. English — perhaps under the influence of US TV shows? Never use it myself and rarely even use “got” when there are so many ways of avoiding it. Used to get a regular (UK) grammar school lesson titled “Get Rid of the “Gots”‘.
      1. I use “gotten” all the time (well, I possess an American passport as well as my British one, so it’s not illegal) and I’ve gotten upbraided for it within the hallowed confines of these very blogs!
    2. Drat! Must have had a complete lapse. Meant Thomas Hardy (specifically the opening of The Return of the Native), not Dylan Thomas. Perhaps confused with “the green FUSE” usw.

      Edited at 2016-02-23 07:21 am (UTC)

      1. I live in Dylan Thomas country and round here “gorse” is sometimes called FURZE. So you weren’t far off.
  4. Every morning I do the Times and Guardian one after the other; so I get to spot similar clues. The Spider Lady has as 15Across Airborne gaggle of hidebound English (5)
    Another delightful co-incidence

    Thank you, jackkt and the setter

  5. 90 minutes (albeit with a couple of pesky interruptions) and even then managed – knowingly – to stuff up on MATRIX, where I chucked in ‘mythic’.

    Last in SWEPT – some very good and tricky stuff, but I’m another in the “RETICULAR doesn’t really work camp”. A bit surprised this one slipped past the editor.

  6. I quite liked this with some good words such as LOBATE and MACERATE. Like yfyap, I’d just done the Grauniad cryptic as well which helped with SKEIN. PSEPHOLOGIST is one of those words which I instantly associate with a name, in this case someone called Malcolm Mackerras (brother of the conductor) who is our very own election expert and has been for as long as I can remember. I’m a sucker for triple defs, so ORDER was my COD.

    Thank you to setter and blogger.

    1. The ones I know best are David (now Sir David) Butler who took part in BBC TV coverage of elections from 1950 onwards and still turns up on other channels now, Professor Anthony King and the late Robert McKenzie of Swingometer fame.
    2. Bletch, I would have thought that Antony Green took over Mackerras’s mantle quite a long time ago. Though Malcolm’s famous pendulum still gets trotted out on occasions.

      Of course America’s Nate Silver is the gold standard these days.

  7. 17:17 of good clean fun. I had a long delay at the end, swallowing 5d’s little red herring hook, line and sinker, seeing ‘river’ as wordplay and wondering what kind of meeting was an EGATT_.

    Especially liked PROOF, MACERATE, HARMONICA and SKEIN (lovely word, nice clue). Thanks, S&B.

  8. Liked COTTAGER, especially the ‘short meeting on river’ bit. HARMONICA is also very good but I go along with those decrying RETICULAR, a small blot, unless we’re all missing something, on a fine crossword.
  9. About an hour for this challenging one, but, although I’d considered MA(Y)— at 4dn, I ended by throwing in mythic like Ulaca. As others I had a ? at RETICULAR, and took ages parsing COTTAGER. Didn’t manage to parse the ‘cut with’ bit of 10ac, and didn’t spot the triple at 2dn, so thanks for those. Is ‘small’ in 10ac part of the def? All relative, and all that…
  10. 45 minutes but thought there must be a word RESICULAR. Didn’t get MATRIX which was not my favourite clue. However, there were many good ones as mentioned above and my PARICULAR COD is probably RASPS.
  11. 25 minutes, held up at the end by 15d because I had mistakenly drawn a line to make it 5,4 (instead of at 13d), so was looking at C—C / -N-S for a while. Doh!
    I have visited furze, gorse and the like, unintentionally, on many golf courses.
    Some good clues here, wittier than recent challenges, my CoD is a toss up between MAY TRICKS and 21d. Or 15d for the def. once I had sorted out it was one word.
  12. 16:55, with a long time at the end stuck on 26ac and 5dn. With the former I thought the whole thing was going to be a reversal of a word meaning ‘info’ with the first letter removed. With the latter I made exactly the same mistake as others, taking the river to be part of the wordplay. I agonised over it for ages, and eventually bunged it in unparsed for want of anything better. Doh!
    Very enjoyable puzzle, with an original feel to it.
  13. This seems a loose-ish synonym for “arrested”, unless one thinks of the Mounties having “always gotten their man” in Canadian mythology. They don’t make Republicans like Ford any more. 16.37
  14. 32 min – held up by having biffed OVERCOMPLICATE at 24ac, also similar experience to keriothe on 26ac & 5dn. Couldn’t parse 4dn as I’ve always said “matt-ricks” when talking about the array.
  15. Didn’t get a start until I guessed 1d would end IST which gave me SHEAF and FURZE, then worked out PSEPHOLOGIST, which I’d heard of without knowing its meaning. I then steadily filled the grid until after 35 minutes I was left with 4d 4ac and 5d. These took another 20 minutes until I eventually saw MATRIX and the other two dropped into place. I also tried to work out what sort of short meeting an EGATT was until the penny dropped. I share the reservations on RETICULAR losing PAR for part! Didn’t know LOBATE but it was easy to work out. Liked HARMONICA. John
  16. One of the best puzzles in recent days I thought. Some lovely structures and deceptions. Thanks, setter. Great.
  17. 25.14, with a swathe of time on SWEPT, resorting to my alphabet soup strainer because I could make nothing of any part of the clue, but eventually making everything fit.
    Liked the deliberate (if it was) unremembered ex-president for poor old Gerald. Am I right in recalling that he’s America’s only President who made it to the White House without being elected?
    MATRIX made me smile.
  18. That’s what my wife does with chicken pieces, I believe. I was so sure that steep must mean that for too long. Once the mace had hit me over the head a la Heseltine, it all fell into place. About an hour.
    1. I must admit I glanced at your comment, bw, and caught sight of “chicken pieces” and “a la Heseltine”. For a moment I thought we were in for a nice recipe (heavy on the mace?).
  19. I managed not to completely fluff this one up today, spending a loooooong time at the end squinting at S_E_T to make sure whatever I put in actually made sense – most unVerlainesque circumspection! Resulting in a very numerologically pleasing time of 11:11.
    1. He counts as elected Bigtone because he was JFK’s running mate.

      Edited at 2016-02-23 12:21 pm (UTC)

    2. Gerald was Trick Dicky’s nomination after the improbable Spiro Agnew was forced out of the VP. Forgave TD all his (alleged) crimes after taking over. “We are not a crook”!
      In the 2nd Beverley Hills Cop, Eddie Murphy’s colleague was passed off as “former President Ford” and nobody batted an eyelid. Now that’s “unremembered”!

  21. A hard one for me at 30:18, so thank you setter (and blogger). Like others, not sure about RETICULAR but perhaps we are all missing something. FURZE seems to pop up a lot in Kipling’s Stalky & Co.
  22. Possibly a reference to Fulham football club. Nickname and the ground is by the river Thames
    1. Can anyone explain why there’s an “and” in 5dn ; it doesn’t make sense. It would make more sense as ” countryman recalls small meeting on river with commander” ?

      Edited at 2016-02-23 02:11 pm (UTC)

            1. I see your point , keriothe but those other examples made much more sense as statements….probably being picky! I suppose if they met on Hampstead Heath it would make sense! (8-)

              Edited at 2016-02-23 07:50 pm (UTC)

  23. At the risk of plagiarising Keriothe…
    23:47, with a long time at the end stuck on 26ac and 5dn. With the former I thought the whole thing was going to be a reversal of a word meaning ‘info’ with the first letter removed. With the latter I made exactly the same mistake as others, taking the river to be part of the wordplay. I agonised over it for ages, and eventually bunged it in unparsed for want of anything better having also bunged in SWEPT for 26 for want of anything better.

    As the man says, a very enjoyable puzzle, with an original feel to it.

    For the record, I don’t know any psephologists.

    1. ….. but have you been stopped in the streets and asked whether you know any psephologists?
  24. 30 mins. I struggled to get on the wavelength today, and although I started to drift a couple of times during the solve it was nowhere near the full knock so I can’t really use tiredness as an excuse. To be honest I didn’t notice the problem with the wordplay for RETICULAR. A biffed COTTAGER was my LOI, although in retrospect I should have seen it.

    Didn’t we have the got/gotten debate a few weeks ago? If it wasn’t here it may have been somewhere else. Or maybe I’m just cracking up.

  25. It looks as if 22 ac. is a howler. I think we should be told. Surprised by matrix as array; also gotten as arrested. (‘The Mounties have gotten their man’ may include the idea of arrest but ‘arrested’ would diminish the sense.) Otherwise a very telling set-up which (I hope owing to tiredness) I failed to finish.
  26. About 35 minutes here, due to being unfamiliar with the social scientist, and not seeing the wordplay for either COTTAGER or SWEPT(LOI). I’m with Andy in not noticing the wordplay issue with RETICULAR. Apparently I’m better off not looking too closely sometimes. Also held up by feeling that ‘steep’ was going to be SATURATE, but couldn’t make it work. I think both that and the aforementioned MARINATE are closer to ‘steep’ than the answer. Nonetheless, regards to all.
  27. A most enjoyable puzzle. 34 minutes but one wrong. I just couldn’t see SWEPT so bunged in SPENT. I assumed the extra T in 22a was a rare oversight by the setter. Ann
  28. 1 verb trans. Soften by steeping in a liquid, with or without heat; wear away or separate the soft parts of, by steeping. M16. ▸ b verb intrans. Undergo maceration in a liquid. E17.

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