Times 28072 – mind your P’s

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

Time taken: 8:07.

I’m curious about this one – the early times coming in are fast indeed, but I think the clever wordplay in this offering may be more to the taste of the seasoned, quick and early solvers. I was taken by surprise by 1 across, a six-letter word with four P’s in it.

I have a great deal of admiration for this puzzle, the surfaces are excellent and there are some well-hidden defitnitions to go with the wordplay. I’ve highlighted a few of my favorites in the blog.

I’ll check back in with a postscript tomorrow to see how everyone did.

Postscript: there have been a few suggestions that there is a typo in 25 across and it should be golf instead of gold. That makes sense, to me I got a giggle out of the clue becuase Gold Club is a notorious adult entertainment establishment.

Away we go…

Across
1 Farewell sign of a lieutenant? (3,3)
PIP PIP – a star as a mark of rank is also a PIP, so a lieutenant would have two of them
5 Endure work, getting call to retire (4,4)
LAST POST – LAST(endure), POST(work)
9 Erode cover for ducks on English river (4,4)
WEAR DOWN – DOWN(what ducks are covered in) next to WEAR(English river)
10 How soldiers may move part of foot (6)
INSTEP – and soldiers may move IN STEP
11 Number dressing a queen in Asian garment (6)
SARONG – SONG(number) surrounding A, R(queen)
12 Popular young actors, say, playing part in support (8)
BRATPACK – anagram of PART inside BACK(support)
14 I am leaving to find out how long Rossini opera lasts? We’ll see (4,4,4)
TIME WILL TELL – Loved this clue – if you were finding out how long the Rossini opera was you would TIME WILLIAM TELL.  Remove I,AM
17 Go straight over rocks, following troops (4,4,4)
MEND ONES WAYS – another fantastic clue – DONE(over), SWAYS(rocks) after MEN(troops)
20 Goods for which no responsibility is taken? (4-4)
DUTY-FREE – cryptic definition
22 Amazingly nice and extremely desirable? (6)
EDENIC – an all-in-one, anagram of NICE and the outer letters of DesirablE
23 Polish once again getting snub (6)
REBUFF – polish once again could be to RE-BUFF
25 Field of play gold club keeps clear (8)
GRIDIRON – G(gold), IRON(golf club) containing RID(clear)
26 Be short of fuel? Submarine out of south has tons (8)
UNDEREAT – UNDERSEA(submarine) missing S(south) then T(tons)
27 Frenchman‘s natter with person kept inside? (6)
GASCON – GAS(natter) and CON(person kept inside prison)
Down
2 Emetic plant product secreted by overripe cactus (6)
IPECAC – hidden inside overrIPE CACtus
3 Dry up petrol supply, going by claims (11)
PURPORTEDLY – anagrm of DRY,UP,PETROL
4 Vessel touring lake with minute tiller? (9)
PLOUGHMAN – PAN(vessel) containing LOUGH(lake) and M(minute)
5 Archer has this desire to show reverence (7)
LONGBOW – LONG(desire) and BOW(show reverence)
6 Victor welcomed by Islamic group is a divinity (5)
SHIVA – V(victor) inside SHIA(Islamic group)
7 Raised energy to make balletic step (3)
PAS – reversal of SAP(energy)
8 Check place one’s locked up potent biological unit (4,4)
STEM CELL – STEM(check) CELL(place one’s locked up)
13 Pastries one prepared with French art in these? (11)
PATISSERIES – anagram of PASTRIES then I(one) and ES(art in French)
15 Baking ingredient in vegan line manufactured (9)
LEAVENING – anagram of VEGAN,LINE
16 Empty coupe, next to Fiat, an azure colour (8)
CERULEAN – external letters of CoupE, then RULE(fiat) and AN. Another great surface.
18 Trickery requiring present transport to be on time (7)
SLEIGHT –  SLEIGH(a transport that contains presents at Christmas time), next to T(time)
19 Carriage wheels broken by learner in Escort (6)
GIGOLO – GIG(carriage), then O,O(wheels) containing L(learner)
21 Sack one likely to get fired (5)
RIFLE – double definition
24 Cultivate a habit in American English (3)
USE – US(American), E(English)

84 comments on “Times 28072 – mind your P’s”

  1. This went in fairly easily; I think UNDEREAT was the most troublesome. Spent some time on GRIDIRON, too, trying to get AU or OR in; didn’t know that G was used as an abbreviation, but in combing Collins I finally found it. COD to TIME WILL TELL.
  2. Very quick. I’m usually an early solver, not sure if I’m seasoned, but went quite quickly.
    Also noticed the nice surface readings, and a few great definitions. Liked especially TIME WILL TELL and SLEIGH for the present transport. LOI was MEND ONES WAYS, but only because I’d typo-ed PLOUGHMMA.
    Don’t think I’ve ever seen G for gold before – it’s always OR or Au?
    SOD (surface of the day): Carriage wheels broken by learner in Escort.
  3. I wasn’t sure about supply as anagrind at 3D, I squinted at cultivate meaning use at 24d, and I was surprised to see pastries in the definition/wordplay at 13d — but 13d also took me a while because I had scribbled Garçon where Gascon belonged in the crossing. Like Isla, I liked Sleigh as the present transport. Thx, George.
    1. We’ve had ‘supply’ (supple-ly) a few times as anagrind; often enough that I’ve actually recognized it.
      2. Ah yes. I knew that! And forgot it this time. Thanks Kevin and John.

        Edited at 2021-09-02 02:07 pm (UTC)

  4. I was going to comment that ’emetic’ was enough to suggest IPECAC, the only emetic I know of, and for once the hidden jumped out at me.
  5. A very entertaining puzzle completed in 31 minutes, but the last 10 of those were spent on the two clues to CERULEAN (unknown) and UNDEREAT (very tricky).

    Like our blogger I particularly enjoyed TIME WILL TELL and MEND ONE’S WAYS for their inventive wordplay.

    My other unknown was the unlikely-looking IPECAC where I suspected a ‘hidden’ right away but waited for checkers before writing it in.

    The one interesting thing I know about Hunstanton is that it’s on the east coast of England but actually faces west, which affords it a view of the sun setting over the sea, something unusual on that side of the country.

    Like others I don’t recall seeing g = gold before. It’s alleged that there is, or was at one time, a fairly short list of single-letter abbreviations that are permitted to Times setters, but I’ve never seen it. If it actually existed I’d be willing to bet that g = gold would not be on it or setters might have made more use of this one over the years.

    1. It was pointed out – the Times daily uses Collins as the primary reference, and it includes G as an abbreviation for gold. I haven’t seen it used here in a while, but maybe a setter was looking at tables of Olympic medals?
      1. Thanks, George, I didn’t doubt that it was valid but I had this in mind, written many years ago by Peter B about Times house style:

        Abbreviations
        The Times puzzle does not let setters use all the abbreviations in any dictionary. For one-letter abbrev’s in particular, there is believed to be a fairly short list of acceptable ones.

        Of course things move on, as they should.

      2. I suspect it was a typo, and that GOLF was intended, which would make more sense as a surface, and (Nato alphabet) is more usual for G.

        (With my new glasses, that is actually how I read the clue at first!)

    2. Sorry in advance, I must either be missing something that’s been discussed earlier, not seeing an Easter egg in the grid or you’re being very clever (=oblique), but what is the bit about Hunstanton referring to? Thanks.
        1. Indeed! I seem to be making a habit of that lately, thinking about two puzzles at the same time. Luckily Hunstanton was in the clue and not an answer so I haven’t spoiled it for anyone. I can’t edit it out now as it has been replied to.

          Edited at 2021-09-02 08:59 am (UTC)

  6. So pretty quick for me. Like George I enjoyed this one, despite resolving most clues quickly.

    On the G for gold, I read the clue quickly as “golf club”, which makes it much less contentious. So I wonder if it was a typo.

    4. G’day Starstruck. Checked out the Snitch today, what a superb piece of work you’ve produced. It was only just starting to come into prominence when I took my leave.

      Had a quick read to remind myself how it worked (and hey, I got a mention in the User Guide!). Am I right in saying I’ll get picked up as a reference solver automatically, when I complete the requisite number of puzzles?

      BTW, I appear on the club site under the user name of Rabbitoh, in case you need to make the link with my TftT identity. I tried to change it to Galspray, but it wouldn’t accept it. Probably because it’s taken, by me presumably. Frustrating.

      Again, great work, nice bit of software.

      1. Hey, galspray – welcome back! Thanks for your comments on the latest Snitch release.

        Rabbitoh? So are you originally from Sydney or perhaps a good mate of Russell Crowe’s?

        I’ve now combined your original name (and results) with your new ones. So you’ll come up as Galspray (Rabbitoh) on the list. You would get picked up automatically at the end of the month after you’ve completed 20 error-free puzzles. But I’ve done a special entry and created you as a tracked solver with an average based on your latest and previous results. You should get converted back to reference status at the end of this month, I think. But at least you can see your results in the list now.

        1. Thanks Starstruck, much appreciated.

          Rabbitoh from birth, I grew up in the NSW bush, moved to Sydney for uni and fun, went to Perth for two weeks that developed into 32 years, but returned to Sydney two years and am now happily ensconsced in the Northern Beaches.

          Where are you located? (Can just narrow it down to lockdown or non if you like!)

  7. Had a bit of a philosophical crisis yesterday …when, a few months ago, I embarked on my mission to become a half-decent solver of The Times 15×15, I naively imagined that it involved learning and practicing the technical aspects of clue-decipherment, along with the “crossword-only” words and other conventions found in cryptic puzzles. Yesterday at 44m, I declared a DNF and gave up with two clues unsolved – but numerous other commenters on this list faced the same blank spaces – and came up with the right answers, even if they were only best guesses or wordplay work-throughs.

    And I came to the realisation that being a good solver isn’t just a technical thing – it involves adopting the right mindset, being diligent, thorough, resourceful, patient, and persistent. Unfortunately I’m a particularly feckless, dissolute, petulant and defeatist individual. In order to get to the next level, I’ll need to become an actual *better human being*. Bit of a shocker, I hadn’t counted on that – It means breaking the habits of a lifetime. It’s a tall order, but I suppose there could be fringe benefits …maybe I’ll even develop a well-rounded and respectable personality.

    So when today I reached the usual impasse with a few clues remaining, I avoided impulsively hitting the Reveal button. I actually did the right thing, and worked through the remaining tasks:
    biffed PLOUGHMAN (NHO LOUGH), then
    (COD) S_E___T succumbed to diligence when I got to trying L as char 2, and
    (LOI) GRIDIRON followed a few seconds later.

    Result!

    1. I didn’t get where I am today by being either well-rounded or respectable. And where I am is not for general consumption !
    3. Aside from the simple ‘if the same definition is thrown at you enough times, it will stick’ argument, which is certainly working more often for me after three years doing the Times 15×15, there is something to be said for those words which you may have heard at some time in your life which unexpectedly rise to the surface from somewhere deep in your head.

      I have found, like Gothick_Matt and others before me no doubt, that keeping a list of unknown names (usually artists/scientists/composers/Greeks/plants/Latin etc)/unusual definitions somehow imprints it into the braincells more vividly so that it is more easily brought to mind later.

      Occasionally too, there are those words of which you may never have heard but by rehashing the cryptic may provide that important nugget. The number of times that others here report that they stumbled on the answer merely by following the cryptic proved the point.

      Stick at it — it can be very rewarding!

    4. You are doing great. Not sure about the better human being yet, if that worked I would be a saint by now (but aren’t 🙂
      A big step is to learn to trust the wordplay and confidently put in words you haven’t met before. It goes right through me when folk say “I was never going to get that” .. because you will regularly come across words you don’t know; everybody does.
    5. I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much about not finishing. I used to be the same, but then realised there’s only so long one can carry on pulling teeth. Life’s too short. When you also realise that there are often fewer than 200 correct entries on the board, including international entries, it could be argued that you’re striving for a perfection that’s out of reach for 99.9% of mere mortals.

      While of course you were being deliberately ironic, in all seriousness I’m not sure being in that top 0.1% necessarily makes, or is the result of being a ‘better human being’? Humility comes from things one doesn’t know, or yet to know, rather than omniscience.

      Is it another step on your path to fulfilment that you now know that ipecac is an emetic? Or that pandowdy is a New England dish? Interesting certainly, but crucial? I’d tactfully suggest not. And I’ll let you into a secret. In the vast majority of instances the setter isn’t armed with that knowledge beforehand either. They troll the dictionary for odd words just as you or I do. Their skill is in presenting them as clues, not the knowledge itself.

      Good luck in your personal quest. But don’t let it devour you. (Mr Grumpy)

      I

    6. I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much about not finishing. I used to be the same, but then realised there’s only so long one can carry on pulling teeth. Life’s too short. When you also realise that there are often fewer than 200 correct entries on the board, including international entries, it could be argued that you’re striving for a perfection that’s out of reach for 99.9% of mere mortals.

      While of course you were being deliberately ironic, in all seriousness I’m not sure being in that top 0.1% necessarily makes, or is the result of being a ‘better human being’? Humility comes from things one doesn’t know, or yet to know, rather than omniscience.

      Is it another step on your path to fulfilment that you now know that ipecac is an emetic? Or that pandowdy is a New England dish? Interesting certainly, but crucial? I’d tactfully suggest not. And I’ll let you into a secret. In the vast majority of instances the setter isn’t armed with that knowledge beforehand either. They troll the dictionary for odd words just as you or I do. Their skill is in presenting them as clues, not the knowledge itself.

      Good luck in your personal quest. But don’t let it devour you. (Mr Grumpy)

      I

    7. Admire your honesty! When you get reaĺly stuck there are online aids available. I bet that many use them.
  8. Like others G for “gold” stood out for me, and I thought it refreshing. I’m not sure why there should be a list of acceptable abbreviations other than to give an advantage to more experienced solvers. Personally I’d have thought any abbreviation that’s in the dictionary should be acceptable.

    Strong COD to TIME WILL TELL — an excellent clue.

  9. Three short at the hour mark, UNDERSEA, PURPORTEDLY, MEND ONES WAYS.

    TIME WILL TELL is a fantastic clue.

    This puzzle contain 14 4-letter words without any marked “(4)”

  10. 31 minutes, taken over the half hour by the STEM in STEM CELL for which I’m embarrassed to admit I had to do an A-Z run through. NHO EDENIC, though it fitted the wordplay and sounded plausible. I thought USE might be a double def + wordplay. Good thought about the possible ‘gold’ for “golf” typo.

    Favourites were (as a past ‘Escort’ owner) GIGOLO and, although it’s a bit of a chestnut, the ‘French art’ for ES in PATISSERIES.

    Thanks to George and setter

    1. Haven’t come across “French art” = ES before
      Isn’t “art” in French ARS?
      Or possiblly EST if you read “art” as “where art thou”?

      I did consider PATISSERARS …but it clearly wasn’t a goer

      1. Hello Denise,
        You’re close. It’s a long, long time since I learnt how to conjugate the verb “to be” (être of course) in French, but here goes…
        Je suis = I am
        Tu ES = you (singular) are = thou ART
        Il/ Elle est = He / She is
        Etc, etc.

        Hope that helps

          1. D’accord.( I’ve been learning French watching a TV spy-drama series called “The Bureau”. The two most common French words seem to be ‘okay’ and ‘d’accord’)
  11. There is a possibility that it is just a typo for ‘good’ or maybe ‘golf’. Both would make for a better surface too.

    Edited at 2021-09-02 06:38 am (UTC)

  12. …the hurl and gliding
    Rebuffed the big wind.

    20 mins pre-brekker. I liked it, mostly the neat surfaces. COD to Mend one’s ways.
    The surfaces were so good that ‘gold’ must be a ‘golf’ typo.
    Thanks setter and G.

  13. 20:00
    Bang on 20 mins. Just bimbled along, writing the answers in steadily while drinking freshly brewed frothy coffee and eating a chocolate biscuit. Best bit of the day. Now reality beckons …
    Thanks, g.

    Edited at 2021-09-02 06:52 am (UTC)

  14. Got lucky on this one I think. I usually work through the clues sequentially, but today I just followed my nose and it seemed to pay off.

    Having read George’s blog I agree that TIME WILL TELL was excellent, but I biffed it at the time of solving.

    Thanks George and setter.

    1. I’ve been meaning to ask, what prompted your return to the Times after your long hiatus?
  15. 25 minutes with LOI UNDEREAT. I took a while to get going but then whizzed through. There were many good clues but COD to TIME WILL TELL, although I saw it straightaway. BRAT PACK was also terrific. Thank you George and setter.

    Edited at 2021-09-02 07:40 am (UTC)

  16. PURPORTEDLY and EDENIC held me up. So I rushed to claim a sub 30m time without checking … I had entered typo (CERULEEN), leaving me a shade of blue.

  17. Our setter is from the BRATPACK
    Watch out for their vocab attack
    Some EDENIC clues
    (And some chestnuts like USE)
    But has anyone met IPECAC?
    1. In full it’s IPECACUANHA. I’ve certainly seen it on multiple previous occasions (not necessarily in the Times) but have no desire to sample it in the real world.
  18. A gentle stroll today over 13.38, either marking a return to form or a kind setter. Perhaps the latter, as IPECAC could have been much more impenetrably clued.
    Being me, I took time to unscramble the wordplay for DUTY FREE, which turned out to be wasteful, as there wasn’t any.
    It’s not a NINA, but Merlin remarked on the preponderance of 4 letter words in a crossword with no four letter entries. Remarkably, apart from UNDEREAT and CERULEAN, all the 8 and 12 letter entries can be read as collections of 4s. Wiki says BRAT PACK is two words, and GRID IRON while in Chambers only as one word I would happily spell as two. Adds to the observed elegance and smoothness of the setter’s art in this grid. Expect to see gold changed to golf in the later editions.
  19. Enjoyed this one, with only the unknown IPECAC and EDENIC really slowing me down. Wasn’t familiar with lough = lake, but PLOUGHMAN couldn’t have been anything else.

    FOI Instep
    LOI Ipecac
    COD Cerulean

    1. Lough is the Irish spelling of loch, both in NI and Republic.
      Edenic was in the 15*15 quite recently.
      Ipecac surprised me, the word looks unpronounceable, but then Mexican words often are.
      Andyf
  20. ….which was very nicely put together. I was only momentarily held up by “gold club” which I immediately realised was a “cast IRON misprint”. Pass my coat please….

    FOI PIP PIP
    LOI UNDEREAT
    COD EDENIC
    TIME 8:20

  21. 12:23 Some lovely clues. Favourite was TIME WILL TELL. LOI BRATPACK took a while to come to mind and NHO IPECAC, but it had to be. Thanks George and setter.
  22. Really enjoyed this, especially PURPORTEDLY, GASCON and MEND ONES WAYS. 26 minutes, so hopefully putting a bit of space between me and the Snitchmeister.
  23. Well I certainly wasn’t one of the quickies. Took me 24.20 and got really bogged down before realising 3 dn was an anagram of dry up petrol which yielded mend ones ways and then if finally started to come together. The anagrams were tricky today I thought and I have to confess having located ipecac I did then check it. Would I have put in ipecac anyway? Very probably if only from desperation.

    Just managed to stop myself putting in Gaston rather than Gascon . COD pip pip.

    Thx setter and blogger.

    1. Tim Moorey is a far more handsome man than me, I have a photo from when we had lunch once to prove we are not the same person.

      You can find out a little more about me in about the setters, I’m just a crossword nut from Australia currently residing in the USA. The photo on my icon hasn’t been changed in years, I am far more grey and bearded these days, maybe next week I’ll update it.

      1. I wd be interested to see an update George .. meantime Tim is probably feeling quite chuffed.
        Many happy returns for the 4th btw
  25. Very enjoyable. My pace slowed as I unpicked the SE corner, but the entertainment was evenly spread. Especially liked the PATISSERIES, so might celebrate with an eclair later.
  26. 10:24. What a lovely puzzle. I actually started very slowly, with very few answers in after my first pass through the acrosses, but then picked up a bit of speed.
    I wonder if gold/golf was an editorial correction on the basis that ‘golf club’ made IRON a bit too obvious.
    1. On the other hand “golf club” for G…IRON would have been a nice lift-and-separate. I’m leaning towards it being a typo.
  28. 1a My FOI, as you’d imagine. Nice puzzle no hold-ups 23 minutes including a phone call from the chimney sweep. LOI UNDEREAT. Liked the Rossini one best. Thanks George.
  29. A few too many unknowns to make this a speedy solve. IPECAC? Guessed it was a hidden — just needed a few checkers to have confidence in it.

    I don’t understand the RULE=fiat bit though I’ve heard of CERULEAN somewhere before.

    EDENIC was a crafty anag — just could not pick it out for ages — had EMETIC in mind perhaps from the IPECAC clue.

  30. On my terms, this was a rattle through, an EDENIC puzzle. I thought PURPORTEDLY might have been an unknown for a while. Still not quite sure of ‘supply’ as an anagrind.
  31. 32 minutes on this most enjoyable offering, where the difficult words were gently clued, and as others have said, some delightfully clever surfaces, even USE made me smile, but I liked the ‘present transport’ best. Thank you, setter and George for the enlightenment.
  32. A most enjoyable puzzle. I started with PIP PIP and followed up with WEAR DOWN. The Wear was my local river as a child and I spent many a happy hour fishing there, starting with minnows and sticklebacks and graduating to brown trout. I was glad that IPECAC was a hidden although I did recognise it once I spotted it. Loved TIME WILL TELL and MEND ONES WAYS. I originally had GASTON at 27a, but as it didn’t parse, I had a rethink and saw GASCON. BRATPACK was POI (I’d previously removed BRASTRAP when STEM CELL made it impossible) and EDENIC brought up the rear after much cogitation. 24:22. Thanks setter and George.
  33. Hit the buffers at full speed with GIGOLO and EDENIC taking far longer than they ought. — a good ten minutes I think. 32 in total.
  34. Really enjoyed this, especially PURPORTEDLY, GASCON and MEND ONES WAYS. 26 minutes, so hopefully putting a bit of space between me and the Snitchmeister.
  35. Got there in the end. I rarely finish in one sitting, partly owing to need to work but also I almost always get stuck and a break usually, ahem, breaks the impasse. Probably took me an hour overall. I don’t seem to get any faster despite my best efforts. Like others I enjoyed this, especially the long across clues. LOI EDENIC. Thanks setter and blogger.
  36. Probably an hour all told. FOI time will tell, LOI ipecac in desperation after staring at the clue and hoping it was a hidden I’d NHO. Much to enjoy here, and after biffing some, e.g. sarong, undereat, ploughman – THAT sort of tiller – great to read the blog to clarify some of the mysteries, like the wheels in gigolo. I thought sap was to drain energy – I saw pas early but until instep went in I couldn’t justify it as it seemed contrary to the clue, but popped it in as a “must be” finally. A technical DNF for me – had Gas??? and tried various options in the online grid, finally actually seeing Gascon, but only with red squares after Gasper, ponder, Gaston – so close but not quite close enough. Needed Gascon for gigolo. A good workout for my grey cell. I’m pleased to have got so near. Thanks, George, and setter. GW.
  37. I had to give this a cursory glance before our ‘big day out’.

    I eventually started this at 10.00pm local time after returning from ‘er indoors’ charity art auction. She sold rather well! Huzzah!

    I didn’t really enjoy this as much as others; after half an hour I ‘folded’.
    With 16dn CERULEAN, 19dn GIGOLO and 26ac UNDEREAT unfinished.
    I did not find the 4,4,4s enjoyable at all as they were write-ins.

    FOI 1ac PIP, PIP which I used here just yesterday!

    (LOI) 27ac GASCON

    COD 12ac BRAT PACK — not the RAT PACK Sammy, Dean, Frank and Peter (Joey & Angie?)

    WOD 22ac EDENIC

    Unlike Denise, l’m far too old to become a better person.
    Meldrew & Jordan Associates

    Edited at 2021-09-02 03:19 pm (UTC)

  38. 14.08. Gentle fare but a fun solve. COD probably time will tell but I also liked the present transport bit of sleight and the clue for gigolo. MER at the gold club / golf club probable misprint.
  39. But one mistake. Was I the only person to put in Gaston? A classic example of how easy it is to ignore one’s own rules. I couldn’t see why it was the answer, but assumed I must be missing something. Bad policy. Always explain.
  40. I suspect you are correct, and that makes it a pretty good clue. Although ‘playing field clear in golf club’ would be much more economical I’d suggest? (Mr Grumpy)
  41. Quick time for me but an annoying typo

    Liked it for all the reasons mentioned

    Thanks George and Setter

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