Times 27916 – roll roll roll your boat

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

Time taken: 8:12.  Judging by the other early times, I think I was very much on the setter’s wavelength today, since my time is a bit under my average, but the other early bird are having a tougher go of it.

Some tricky definitions here, I think the wordplay is straightforward.  I tend to do better on puzzles with really clear wordplay.

I wonder if the setter was trying for something here, with multiples of GO and ROLL in the grid.

Away we go…

Blog update: Wow – I don’r think I have ever blogged a puzzle that has neared 100 comments where I didn’t get something outrageously incorrect in the write-up. Between Greek being an offensive or racist term, Greenhouse being obscure slang (I’ll admit, I put it in from wordplay, and before writitng it up looked up both Collins and Chambers which have that a main definition) and the possibility of slab (I solved relief on the first pass so it didn’t enter my mind) there’s a lot of opinoins on this crossword.

Since I am on the East Coast of the USA, and work early on Thursdays, I am usually asleep when most of the comments come in and cannot be an active participant in the conversation, so I add a blog update in my lunch break.

Across
1 Whizz kid‘s very curious message, never opened (2-6)
GO-GETTER – AGOG(very curious) and LETTER(message) both mising the first letter
5 State Senate extremely reluctant (6)
AVERSE – AVER(state) and the outside letters of SenatE
9 Simplicity of sense is a hit (8)
EASINESS – anagram of SENSE,IS,A
10 Born with ancient Greek accent (6)
BROGUE – B(born) and ROGUE – Greek is an old slang term for a rogue
12 Never off for Yule I suspect (3,2,4,4)
NOT ON YOUR LIFE – NOT ON(off) and then an anagram of FOR,YULE
15 Gutted officials cover up US university fails (5)
OMITS – outside letters in OfficialS surrounding MIT(US University)
16 Air foul footwear after short time (3,3,3)
TEA FOR TWO – anagram of FOOTWEAR after T(time)
17 Hard work securing support for backing mass confection (9)
SWEETMEAT – SWEAT(hard work) containing TEE(support) reversed and M(mass)
19 Custom somewhat hard at first (5)
HABIT – A BIT(somewhat) after H(hard)
20 Willing girlfriend coming to game — it’s a start (5,6,2)
READY STEADY GO – READY(willing), STEADY(girlfriend) and the game of GO
22 Aid learner, one cutting the knot? (6)
RELIEF – L(learner) and I(one) inside a REEF knot
23 Impressive flower up for arrangement (8)
POWERFUL – anagram of FLOWER,UP
25 Hamper opinion surrounding request (6)
BASKET – BET(opinion) surrounding ASK(request)
26 Hack back old-fashioned, short frizzy hairdo (8)
REPORTER – RETRO (old fashioned) and PERM(frizzy hairdo) missing the last letter, all reversed
Down
1 Immature group of pupils in cockpit (10)
GREENHOUSE –  GREEN(immature) and HOUSE(group of pupils)
2 Vapid chatter to flag up (3)
GAS – SAG(flag) reversed
3 Occupants in temporary shelters want at heart to be housed (7)
TENANTS – TENTS(temporary shelters) containing the middle letters of wANt
4 Nice to see moderate article embracing acceptable opinion (4,2,3,3)
EASY ON THE EYE – EASY(moderate) and THE(article) containing ON(acceptable) then EYE(judgement, opinion)
6 Initially en route today to block Spanish port, causing complaint (7)
VERTIGO – first letters of En Route Today inside of VIGO(Spanish port)
7 Unfortunately, woman prematurely cancelled bill in bank (11)
REGRETTABLY – the woman is GRETA, missing her last letter, then TAB(bill) inside RELY(bank)
8 Jacob’s missus maybe runs vessel (4)
EWER – EWE(a Jacob is a kind of sheep), then R(runs)
11 Swimming right into animal, getting hit (12)
BREASTSTROKE – R(right) inside BEAST(animal), then STROKE(hit)
13 Tissue of lies to troll about (6-5)
TOILET-ROLLS – anagram of LIES,TO,TROLL
14 Regulator of company books a posh car (10)
CONTROLLER – CO(company), NT(New Testament, books), ROLLER(Rolls Royce, posh car)
18 Swing music introduced by kid on the radio (7)
TRAPEZE – RAP(music?) inside what sounds like TEASE(kid)
19 Notice call to effort (5-2)
HEAVE-HO – double definition, notice meaning firing, or giving the old heave-ho
21 Bed made of mostly turned wood (4)
CRIB – BIRCH(wood), missing the last letter, reversed
24 Thick offender having stumbled in seconds (3)
FAT – second letters of oFfender hAving sTumbled

105 comments on “Times 27916 – roll roll roll your boat”

  1. Jerry is right about the Heyer flavour of Greek in that connection. Some of the rich young men about town in her books frequent gaming hells where they are separated from their money by “greeking”, “cogged” dice and other slippery practices. They also go to “the Jews” when in need of ready money, as they also do in Trollope. It must be a minefield trying to put together an English syllabus these days. In Greene’s Our Man In Havana, there’s the N word right on the first page. And I see that Dr. Seuss is looking iffy now. I mostly caught the wave for this one. 12.49
    1. They bowdlerise them Olivia, as often as not. The Fat Controller has disappeared from the latest TtheTE editions, even. Lots of Enid Blyton has had to be “updated,” too.. as for Biggles, or Bunter, just don’t go there
      1. was removed from Leicester Public Library and others wholesale!

        Edited at 2021-03-04 12:16 pm (UTC)

      2. Even Mr Potato Head has fallen foul of the woke generation now, or the manufacturers cynically spotted a marketing opportunity.
          1. It isn’t, actually. They just renamed the umbrella brand ‘Potato Head’, because it seemed a little bit sexist to have Mrs Potato Head as a sub-category of Mr Potato head. They have both retained their individual names.
            Something similar has happened with Dr Seuss, where the publishers have just decided to withdraw a small number of little-known titles containing unequivocally racist imagery and language.
            As usual when you see the word ‘woke’ an awful lot of nonsense is involved in the reaction.

            Edited at 2021-03-04 04:55 pm (UTC)

    2. I recently read a Jeeves and Wooster and Rider Haggard’s She for the first time and there were bits of both that made me wince. However I think people are often too quick to judge old works outside of their historical context.
      1. I’ve loved the Richard Hannay stories since I was young, but when you re-read them now, there are occasional bits which make you think “OK, that really hasn’t aged well, let’s try to forget you mentioned it”.
  2. Never heard of ‘greenhouse’ for cockpit or ‘Greek’ for rogue, so I had to cross my fingers for those. Should there be a statute of limitations on the use of ancient slang? Especially if, as in the case of ‘greek’, ‘welsh’ or ‘j*w’ the slang meanings are derogatory towards certain ethnic groups.
  3. Late arrival at the ball today having decided to watch the cricket without distraction. Not a good decision in retrospect. 38:minutes with LOI FAT. I’d no idea about GREENHOUSE or BROGUE, both of which were total biffs. It took a while to accept that Jacob preferred his sheep to either of his wives too. I wasn’t quite on wavelength, perhaps from not doing it at my normal time. Thank you George and setter.
  5. for this post-prandial puzzle.

    1dn GREENHOUSE was a write-in – as my RAF slang is rather pukka.

    FOI 1ac GO-GETTER – a high flier

    (LOI) 26ac REPORTER – snitch

    COD 13dn TOILET ROLLS – Bronco (RAF) – ‘Völkischer Beobachter’ (Luftwaffe)

    WOD SCURRAVOGUE from Co. Down meaning a scoundrel. Wonderful Irish disparagemnt!

    But DNF as 21up SLAB was ‘OK’ for me, and 18dn looked like TRANNIE from where I was stood standing! (Radio Retro!)

    As for 22ac the answer came as something of a RELIEF

    It all went for ‘a Burton’ after 21 mins. I was in the jolly old juice. Roger and out!

  6. GO-GETTER went straight in followed by GREEN? where I was torn between HORNS and HOUSE, eventually allowing SWEETMEAT to arbitrate for me. BASKET and RELIEF allowed me to see the CRIB without a diversion to balsa. NHO Greek for rogue and won’t be adding it to my vocab. Never did parse FAT, but went with the definition and checkers once POI REPORTER was in. LOI was BREASTSTROKE. 30:30. Thanks setter and George.
  7. Made a great start today but let down by SLAB instead of CRIB like many others, and HEADS-UP for HEAVE-HO. Took a long while to unpick.

    Distracted this morning by a birthday crossword compiled just for me, and with the theme of me, by my other half. Wow.

  8. LOI was 1d, though shouldn’t have been. This pic’s of an Avro Anson cockpit and shows why the term ‘greenhouse’ is appropriate.
    Held up for a while by TWO FOR TEA instead of TEA FOR TWO.
    Eventually finished in 33’45”
  9. Another reasonable day. Our challenge always seems to be getting a toehold – but once we have a starting point we generally do pretty well. We needed help with about 6 clues today and finished in 33 minutes. Onwards and upwards….
  10. Took two goes to get this out, but eventually I got there with GREENHOUSE. Like a few others I didn’t know the cockpit meaning, but the wordplay left little option. Had no idea about Greek = rogue, and by the sounds of it let’s hope it doesn’t come up again.

    Didn’t know that ‘steady’ can be a noun for boyfriend/girlfriend either, but again the cluing made it straightforward. SWEETMEAT took the most grinding out, and I considered slab for 21d without going as far as to put it in. Needed all the checkers for TRAPEZE, and even then a bit more thought was required before I saw how it worked.

    FOI Gas
    LOI Greenhouse
    COD Go-getter

  11. On the wavelength today very steady solve. I enjoyed the wordplay elements which helped me out with the unknowns.

    Enjoyed crib and ready steady go.

    LOI FAT — could not see the device for a while.

    19:04

    Thanks G and setter

  12. When I first looked at this, I drew a complete blank. A second look got me started and then quickly to about 70% completion with the SW largely blank. Then coffee and concentration got me to LOI FAT -unparsed.
    I’m another who had no idea about GREENHOUSE or GREEK, nor REPORTER; just hoped for the best. I corrected HEAVE TO because it didn’t parse; a sign of improvement.
    And I had to correct a biffed ALL IN GOOD TIME at 12a;again it did not parse.
    Very pleased to have finished this.
    David
  13. Slow and steady today. Like others didn’t know cockpit or greek. Although 4 down is reasonably easy, the clue doesn’t work. Article does not embrace acceptable opinion but is embraced by it.
    I was another slabber until taking it out to work on 22 across properly which gave much relief.
    Thanks to blogger and setter.

    Edited at 2021-03-04 02:33 pm (UTC)

    1. As George says in the blog, you have to separate ‘acceptable’ from ‘opinion’. It’s EASY(ON),THE (moderate article embracing acceptable), then EYE (opinion).
  14. Somewhat outside my comfort zone with this one. FOI assess for averse, so that held me up. Heave-ho/to – couldn’t make my mind up for ages, then realised which it had to be. Was going for not on your nelly when it didn’t fit, so resorted to the “proper” version of that. Easiness is a funny word – what’s wrong with “ease”? Too many words ending in -ness these days, especially in the quick Jumbo. Very puzzled as to what a greenhouse had to do with a cockpit. I had trannie as well for a while. Tea for two and reporter caused amused groans. Three goes at it, so heaven knows how long. Thank you for the parsing, I biffed away like mad, and thank you setter for the puzzle, this one really was a head-scratcher. Enjoyed in spite of. GW.
  15. The Greeks undoubtedly have a word for it, but heaven forbid that word should be “welsher”.
    1. The origin of this meaning of ‘welsh’ is obscure and probably not related to the nationality, but I would certainly never use the term anyway.
  16. ….and biffed a fair few — thanks due to George for FAT which I didn’t see later when I unravelled the others.

    I mostly disliked the RAF slang, the racist connotation of 10A, and the random Greta.

    FOI NOT ON YOUR LIFE
    LOI HEAVE-HO
    COD EWER
    TIME 12:15

  17. with a HEAVE TO, not even sure why I thought that might be right.
    I agree, some clues today didn’t quite work.
  18. Biffed FED — every second letter of ‘offender’ — at 24d, so then couldn’t think of anything better than SECONDER (‘back’) for 27a.
  19. I was on the wavelength but I’m still making lots of typos on this laptop – EASINSSS today. My only complaint with this one (not having spotted the SLAB ambiguity) is the awful use of a homophone to contain another word in TRAPEZE: I biffed it as my LOI, it never having crossed my mind what the real breakdown was.
    1. I didn’t mention it but I dislike this sort of thing too. I take the view that a homophone indication has to represent a distinct sound in the answer, and that if there is a mixture of homophone and other types of wordplay in a clue they should be completely distinct.
  20. I went down the GREENHORNS false path, assuming it was a chicken like Rhode Island Red or something, but fixed that up to GREENHOUSE, which fitted the wordplay but I didn’t know as RAF slang. But DNF since I had SLAB and so there was nothing I could fit at 22A. I didn’t really consider SLAB might be wrong, it matched the other checker, it matched the definition, and it matched the wordplay. I put it down meaning to come back in the morning but never did.
  21. I was thrilled to finish this after yesterday’s near miss, only to discover that my (unparsed) Heave-to was a letter out. With the QC I know if it doesn’t parse it’s probably wrong, but I can’t be quite so picky (eg Brogue and Fat) with the 15×15 — though I did manage to parse Go-Getter. Greenhouse was a real struggle, but seemed plausible, and Slab/Crib needed Relief as a guide. My favourite was the pdm of 26ac, Reporter. Invariant
  22. Excellent crossword and blog.
    I also had SLAB and TRANNIE before I saw the light.
  23. 28.36. A couple of curious ones added to the solving time: the Greek rogue and the cockpit (though the description of it as a greenhouse made sense to me) but the main delay like a few others was entering slab and spending ages alpha-trawling l*l*e* before revising slab and coming up with crib and LOI relief.
  24. A DNF for me as ‘GREENHOUSE’ just didn’t come, or, to be more precise, ‘HOUSE’ didn’t come – ‘GREEN’ was obvious. I’m kicking myself now. I’m assuming this was RAF slang for a cockpit, given the structural similarity. I’m surprised I have never heard it before, but there you go.

    I had never heard of ‘GREEK’ as a word for a rogue either, but I biffed that one anyway as I already had the B and G.

    I wasted a lot of time by putting in ‘SLAB’ for 21d. Eventually I realised that 22a could not be ‘L-L’ something and spotted ‘RELIEF’. Then I realised what the answer to 21d was; right wordplay, wrong tree!

  25. Several biffs, thankfully all accurate, and luck in not thinking of SLAB after writing in CRIB at first glance. Can fully understand some of the objections here but was curiously on wavelength and rather chuffed at quick time. So thanks to setter and blogger. Good spot of FAT CONTROLLER and GREENHOUSE GAS ….

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