Times 27817 – Round the Horn

80 comments on “Times 27817 – Round the Horn”

1. I was doing well at first, though I confess to have looked up ‘trotter’ in checking a guess to resolve the AFOOT / KITTY crossing, which had some hard vocab. (I knew ‘rhino’ and ‘kitty’, but not ‘mog’.) Having exhausted my list of farm animals, I thought ‘trotter’ might have been a synonym of BOIL (the furuncular kind, that is), and that the answer might have been ABOIL. Consider it a DNF if you like. 😛

   The real trouble and slowdown came at the top. For 1 Across I couldn’t see past PRESS AGENT or something like that, and once I got the ‘f’, bunged in PUFF AGENT, not even reading the rest of the clue. This rendered the upper-right corner impossible, naturally. Once I thought to rethink the clue, and immediately saw my error, the entire corner fell within seconds, only really pausing to carefully work out DAVENTRY from the wordplay.

   A good challenge to start the week by, and a humbling reminder of the dangers of bunging.

   Edited at 2020-11-09 02:32 am (UTC)

2. ….solve in 26 minutes, with the only NHO in Daventry. I though puff adder was clever, but was strangely stuck on the chestnuts tea and champagne.

   Damon Runyon, anyone? He doesn’t come up much nowadays – a voice from a vanished world.

   1. Isn’t Runyon responsible for the stories behind Guys and Dolls?

      Edit: An internet search reveals, yes, he is. The first scene of Guys and Dolls is entitled Runyonland. A wonderful musical — my son’s current favorite.

      Edited at 2020-11-09 04:01 am (UTC)

      1. His short stories are excellent and, barring a possible misprint, are said to be exclusively written in the historic present. I couldn’t find the slip when I read them over 40 years ago. I wonder where my copy has gone? “A piece of pie” was my favourite.

         Edited at 2020-11-09 10:19 am (UTC)

         1. He was a brilliant writer. Most of the stories are humorous and based around the fictional and semi-fictional criminal characters of the racetrack and Broadway. However, one of his early short stories outside of that genre is ‘Two Men Named Collins’. I challenge anyone not to have a tear in their eye after reading it. Mr Grumpy
   2. Jimmy Breslin wrote an excellent book on him.
   3. Hello Vinyl could you please unspam me? I forgot that URLs are banned.
      1. done
         1. Thank you!
3. 35 minutes, thrown a little early on by the 3-letter answer at 7dn where I needed the second checker before spotting the definition ‘leaves’ leading to TEA. Incidentally I think the homophone definition is more likely to be “tee” (the letter) as “ti” is a musical note and would not normally be described as a ‘character’.

   My first thought at 23 for ‘vanish’ was ‘go walkabout’ but as that wouldn’t fit I plumped for ‘go walking’ until CHAIN SAW forced me to revise my opinion.

   I know Auberon Waugh for his journalism but wasn’t aware he wrote novels (are they any good, I wonder) so my first thought at 24dn was of his father, Evelyn. Other than that the only novelist I knew in that family was Alec, E’s older brother and A’s uncle.

   Edited at 2020-11-09 06:42 am (UTC)

4. Like ulaca i thought this harder than a typical Monday and the SNITCH confirms this to be of about average difficulty. I managed to find some wrong turns, in particular trying to fit even for flat into 4D and thinking 6D was a something lad given the youth in the clue. Likewise I thought the setter was referring to himself in GO WALKIES – I did enjoy this clue for what must have been a deliberate indirection.
   1. Hey Pootle, I noticed you posted a lightning fast time for the quick cryptic. How do you get the answers in so quickly? Do you touch-type? Do you skip filled squares?
      1. Hi Penfold. Thanks for noticing 🙂 I do treat the QC as a speed test. I solve on an iPad so I’m not touch typing but I do skip filled squares. I’ve managed a handful under 3 minutes when all answers have gone in first time and I’ve not had to come back to any clues. It’s far from the norm! Maybe we should convince starstruck to do a QC SNITCH.
5. I did well today, especially considering my ongoing desire to go back to bed. 21 minutes, only really held up in the south (did anyone else try to put “Eden” into 21?)

   I used to pass signs for DAVENTRY while driving between home in London and Coventry while I was at Warwick, so that helped, as did looking up the spelling of GUNWALE a week or two back (shortly after I snapped this photo by holding the camera high enough above my head that it had a view over the gunwale…)

6. Not too easy, nor too hard.
   Favourite clues today were FORESTATION (for use of ‘plane’), CHAINSAW (for gnome = saw) and GO WALKIES (for the misdirection with ‘setter’.
   I also liked EARLY because it reminded me of Barry Cryer on ISIHAC saying irony was like steely, only different.
   I liked ulaca’s reference to Spiro Agnew in FORE!(station). I still remember seeing that shot on TV!
   As for the two Waughs, Evelyn and Auberon, I once read a potted criticism that said the father was a wonderful writer but an awful man and v.v. for Auberon.
   I recommend Jimmy Breslin’s book on Damon RUNYON.
   PS…whatever sniping has come Trump’s way has been fully deserved.

   Edited at 2020-11-09 07:18 am (UTC)

7. I took 52 minutes for what I agree was harder than the average Monday offering. I was held up by VINDICATE, which I didn’t associate with ‘Free’ and the SHAM PAIN.

   I liked PUFF ADDER (and learnt that ‘Reptilian’ can be a noun), SKID LID (we call them “stack hats” here) and CLAYMORE because it reminded me of the “Skye Boat Song”.

   Thanks to setter and thanks and congrats to ulaca

8. Most answers came quite easily
   But 13 was unlucky for me
   I spent far too long
   On ideas that were wrong
   Till I remembered Muhammad Ali
   1. Your limericks seem to go unremarked each day so I thought I’d let you know that I appreciate both your dedication to the cause and also the quality of the work. A bit more nonsense in the world is never a bad thing.
      1. Same here.
         1. And here …
            1. Me too.
            2. …and here. Keep them coming.
   2. Congrats to our own astro_nowt
      Who never leaves us in doubt
      That sparrows and tits
      Give him the s…ts
      But the rest he always works out.
      1. Well thank you all kindly!! 🙂
         1. add me to the fan club
         2. me too, albeit belatedly
   3. Great stuff. Keep them rolling.
9. …And greater wars: when each proud fighter brags
   He wars on Death, for lives; not men, for flags.

   25 mins pre-brekker. I really enjoyed it. Some nice clues, e.g. 1ac, 25ac, 8dn.
   I worried slightly for our US friends needing to know Daventry.
   Thanks setter and U.

   1. …and those of us in the UK needing to know RUNYON, my LOI after several alphabet trawls.
10. Super crossword. Right up my street. Presumably by Oink given the style, wit and trotter reference (and the fact that the QC and 15×15 are often paired in my opinion). Too many fun clues to pick a COD.
11. 18′ 19″, felt slow. CHAMPAGNE took far too long. AFOOT LOI.

    Thanks ulaca and setter.

12. Over 49 minutes for me, becalmed after a fun solve for ages due to a querulously biffed FORESHORTEN, assuming this was something to do with Euclid and completely forgetting the woody version of planes. What a clever clue – the change in syllabic emphasis reminds me of the Australian plant vendor at Mole Station who unfortunately chose the URL molestationnursery.com. Or the US directory of representatives that went for whorepresents.com.

    Thanks brilliant setter for an excellent Monday test and Ulaca as always for explaining all.

13. 12:02. I whizzed through most of this but CLAYMORE and MALIGN took a while to come. I liked NEW JERSEY best.
14. Thanks for the blog. A decent start to the week for me – I loved CHAMPAGNE, and eventually managed to get everything apart from RUNYON (I’d never heard of him).

    Although I got the correct answers, I have no idea of how the Plane part of the clue refers to FORESTATION, Gnome to CHAINSAW, and Rhino to KITTY? I may just be a bit slow on a Monday morning but can anyone put me out of my misery? Google doesn’t seem to be much help.

    1. Plane – as in plane tree. A gnome is a saying, as is a saw. Rhino – slang for money, so money saved is a kitty.

       Edited at 2020-11-09 09:30 am (UTC)

15. Would have been under ten minutes, but couldn’t see past NATION for 20d, and THUNDERY for 18a, though both were patently wrong.
16. …nor victory to the strong, but that’s the way to bet.” Apparently Runyon wasn’t the first to say this, but say it he did. 31 minutes, with LOI GUNWALE. The deception in FORESTATION was very clever but my COD is GO WALKIES, even though the expression has always been ‘go tats’ with the dogs in my life. I liked NEW JERSEY though I imagine that’s a hoary old chestnut the other side of the pond, along with ‘what did delaware?” Not as easy as it first looked . Thank you U and setter.

17. This felt a bit chestnutty to me .. 11ac and 13dn both familiar concepts, for example .. 27ac too. But I enjoyed it nonetheless, being a little chestnutty myself these days.
    Liked 1ac. It reminded me of seeing one in Chester zoo as a boy, many years ago.
18. FOI 1d mater:-( Took ages to think of considering anything else.

    Seemed equally valid – as ‘ream’ and ‘cut’ are not a million miles apart semantically.

    1. I had MATER to start with too, until I solved 1A.
19. I’m with jerrywh – old chestnuts, roasting. You saw a TRICCERATOPS in Chester Zoo? That really was some time ago.
20. Easier at the top, which more or less breezed in, than at the bottom, in all 15.28.
    Mind you, VINDICATE took a while, as the otherwise fitting VENTILATE seemed a possibility for “free” without allowing the wordplay to make sense.

    NEW JERSEY is surely an antique, but it was gigglesome. As Boltonwanderer indicates, it was what Della wore, and now I’m not sure I’ll be able to lose that song all day. Perhaps if I attend to reclassifying my huge false teeth collection…

    LOI TOTALLY (needed ARISTO to get that), LOU* GUNWALE – too many words in the clue.

    * Last One Understood

    1. Where are the Christmas Turkeys of yesteryear – shouldn’t you take credit for this Z, I think it was yours? P.S. My husband really enjoyed your term House of Orange.
       1. Yes indeed: I believe I had CHAIN SMOKER to clue. My mind definitely returned to that happy time!
21. PUFF ADDER went straight in with a smile, then the top half seemed to drop into place nicely, but the bottom half was a bit chewier. Took me ages to see KITTY and AFOOT. Needed ARISTO before I was able to put in my LOI, TOTALLY. Also took a while to get past NATION at 20d. Liked GO WALKIES. 27:20. Thanks setter and U.
22. You’re missing a treat!
23. 28:20
    Pleasant start to the week; a tad trickier than the usual Monday.
    Sniping about Trump, yeah whevs. This here is about crosswords, innit.
24. 17.15 so not exactly a Monday dash. Started reasonably but found a few roadblocks in the way. FOI pater, LOI skid lid. A few unusuals , Runyon being one- the source for Guys and Dolls. I read his short stories in my youth, encouraged by my pater ,who loved them. Despite being a fatherly suggestion, I felt similarly after reading them. Wonderful pictures of 20s, 30s New York . Characters superb creations and really funny- for the most part. A bit of pathos as well just to avoid predictability.

    Now off for a walk to try to compensate for weekend excess….

25. Enjoyed this and romped through it in 12 minutes EXCEPT for the unknown RUNYON where I had to resort to a wordsearch. Much to like but 2d gets my CoD.
26. Pretty straightforward stuff, and I came in at 16’17”, slowed down a little at the end by Skid Lid which I had to guess
27. Just short of the hour for me, with a few struggles along the way, including RUNYON, ARISTO and KITTY (biffed). No problems with triceratops or champagne, we’ve had both of them recently, although maybe in the QC. GUNWALE also went straight in – I’m pretty familiar with ships bits. Thanks U and setter.
28. In addition to Guys N Dolls he’s also responsible for the classic: Small child in car – are we lost Daddy? Shut up, he explained.

    I note in passing that Mohn clocked in at 3.14. Mine was a laggardly (by comparison) 15.54.

29. The scansion aint perfect, all the same.
    1. There was a young man from Hunan
       Whose limericks didn’t quite scan.
       When asked why this was
       He said “it’s because
       I try to cram too much into the final line and it ruins the plan”.
30. dost sometimes counsel take – and sometimes tea.

    Had to guess skid lid at the end; otherwise my usual trundle in a slowish 26’15. A modern Waugh of note is Alexander, currently doing great work on the Shakespeare authorship question. Ever since I read Damon Runyon’s ‘Guys and Dolls’ nigh on sixty years ago his brilliantly tailored mordant style (see olivia above) has lingered in my mind.
    PS Is 3.14 a record?

    Edited at 2020-11-09 12:19 pm (UTC)

31. I am shocked that so few have heard of Damon Runyon. The first collection of stories was “More Than Somewhat” and was part of my youth, being guided there by parents, and featuring Louie Lubber Lips and other immortal characters. I have just searched my bookshelves and I no longer have it: one of my siblings must have nicked it.
    Rich
32. Just what is wrong with chesnuts!? Here in Shanghai they are in season – small but delicious roasted on charcoal. In early December it’s strawberry season! Weird!

    FOI 9ac TORCH

    LOI 17dn TOTALLY after having FATALLY for a while

    COD 23ac GO WALKIES scissors!?

    WOD 6dn SKID LID

    I note at 4dn DAVENTRY – the continuation of obscure English Towns. I don’t think I’ve had the pleasure.
    And there is a Daventry in Ontario and a Daventry Community in Fairfax, Va.

    I’m not big on Limericks – as Hancock (Tony) once said at his local Poetry Society, ‘I have little interest in various young women from different parts of the country.’ Or was it Ken Williams!?

    Edited at 2020-11-09 12:20 pm (UTC)

    1. Definitely Hancock. Hours and hours sitting in front of the family’s Bush valve radio listening to such stuff gave me ample time to study the names of the various radio stations etched onto the illuminated glass tuning panel, one of which featured in block capitals (because it was British) was Daventry. It was a long wave transmitter of immense power for its day with a signal that could reach most parts of mainland Britain.

       Edited at 2020-11-09 01:50 pm (UTC)

       1. Of course – well remembered Leighton Buzzard – which was surrounded at one time by radar masts – long gone. I believe they were protecting a very important town during WWII which was also where some parts the Mullberrys were made by Marley.
          1. Remember Hilversum?
33. Managed to finish this correctly with LOI TOTALLY. Quite a few unparsed so I was lucky. The top half went in first.
    COD to FORESTATION which I did parse eventually.
    22:14 online but I must add to that at least 20 minutes with the paper earlier; my wife now has possession of that.
    I did not think I would finish this puzzle so I’m glad I stuck with it. Damon Runyon well known to me from Guys and Dolls.
    David
34. 9:19. No problems, no unknowns. Rhino a term I have learned from doing these.
    I’m surprised how many people haven’t heard of RUNYON.
35. No harder than a normal Monday for me with nothing unknown, apart from whether the number of solvers who haven’t heard of Runyon is about right or not.
36. Failed with a wrong NATION which I couldn’t parse but bunged it anyway.
    Otherwise, enjoyed
37. Really annoyed that I couldn’t figure out GUNWALE, even with all the crossers. My nautical vocabulary wasn’t solid enough to biff it, and I never realised that “wrecked” wasn’t an anagram indicator but was providing the W. Argh.

    This was OK otherwise. Didn’t know RUNYON, but from the cluing it was clear, and “rhino” in the money sense only rang the vaguest of bells. I also must remember “gnome” as “saying”, which I didn’t know (even though on this occasion I got CHAINSAW).

    FOI Torch
    LOI Claymore
    COD Vindicate

38. Not too bad for twenty mins then just didn’t see anything for at least another ten.

    Limped over the line with a pot shot at the vaguely-heard-of RUNYON.

39. Well I found this quite hard. I had trouble with bear=hugger, vindicate=free, totally=dead, afoot=cooking, etc Probably just me as I had a really horrible meeting this morning which messed up my concentration, and I had to finish it post lunch. I did like KITTY and NEW JERSEY. Plus the wines were nice, Champagne, Chablis and Muscat. Nice combination. Thank you Ulaca.
40. ….I needed what should have been an unnecessary word search for my LOI, adding a minute and a half to my time.

    FOI SET UP
    LOI CLAYMORE
    COD GO WALKIES
    TIME 9:32

41. …..and we didn’t do too badly. We finished in 46 minutes but needed help with a couple of answers.

    FOI: torch
    LOI: malign
    COD: go walkies (made us smile)

    Thanks to ulaca for the blog.

42. Fully three minutes, I think, on CLAYMORE. No major hang-ups elsewhere. A pleasant Monday workout.
43. Perhaps like others I reached for my Kindle and found that I had bought but didn’t read “Damon Runyon Omnibus” (£0.99). Busy rectifying this omission. Can report early delight! Gasman
44. Like Sawbill and others, I thought this was a great puzzle.
    Took me probably 90 minutes but really enjoyed it – very fair and amusing in places.
    Have to admit, I missed the setter=dog reference and I didn’t know gnome=saw but still managed to finish correctly with luck (& perseverance) on my side.
    LOI was Claymore which, embarrassingly, took me ages – solved it by alphabet trawl!!
45. I liked Puff Adder and Go Walkies, and knew Runyon. There used to be a moderately downscale bar in a moderately upscale part of NY (2nd Avenue in the 50s) called Runyon’s. I don’t know if there was any direct connection, but the (very minor – I did say downscale, didn’t I?) amount of decoration suggested that the owners wanted you to think that there was.
46. Late to the party as ever, as the present Mrs Shabbo and I tackle the puzzle over our evening meal. Beats talking to each other, I guess!
    Started to biff “absinthe” for 13d as it is one of my favourite puns. Sadly it made no sense at all and didn’t even fit!
    Never mind, the puzzle was great fun. The best Monday puzzle for a while IMO.
    Stared at FORE STATION for ages until the penny dropped.
    Many thanks to our setter and to Ulaca.
47. 34:57. I felt somewhat off the pace even before I ground to a halt unable to see totally, claymore, forestation, aristo and Daventry (whose delights I’ve never sampled). Eventually dredged up claymore and unlocked the rest.
48. I didn’t complete this one, stopping with VINDICATE and RUNYON missing. I’m pretty cross with myself since I HAVE heard of Runyon, I know he wrote ‘Guys and Dolls’, but I didn’t put it in because I was too hung up on trying to solve ‘VINDICATE’. My basic problem is that I’m not really into the word play stuff – anagrams, embedded words, double definitions, those are all fine, but for other things I tend to rely on having a good vocabulary, thinking of a word that looks/feels as though it might be the answer and then either writing it in straight away if I’m confident enough that it’s right, or (rarely) checking it back against the clue to see if it is definitely right – it almost always is. I only have one rule – no use of reference books or dictionaries. my problem with ‘VINDICATE’ is that I didn’t think it was a synonym for ‘free’; having now looked it up, I see that it once was, although it long ago ceased to be used with that meaning.

    I didn’t enjoy this crossword much and thought that a few of the clues were pretty lame – none more so than the one for EARLY.

49. The setters have found one of my Achille’s heels. NHO Daventry, but it can be reached via a circuitous route through Careful Parsing.
    31:07
50. I have never seen nor read of such shameful, yet impassively shameless, behavior as displayed by the tantrum-thrower and whiner in chief as he refuses to accept the results of an election the government’s own Department of Homeland Security has rated the most secure in the nation’s history. Only because his pathological narcissism won’t let him accept defeat. But he’s also working up the rubes for his post-presidential scams, some of which he could even run from prison. That so many people see nothing wrong with him is the scariest thing.
    What’s more, the Republicans actively tried to impede the vote (and certainly did succeed to some extent), by eliminating polling places, reducing early voting days, discouraging vote-by-mail, hampering the Postal Service ETC or Biden’s victory would have been even more resounding and certain Senate seats might have been retained by his party.

    Edited at 2020-11-14 07:42 pm (UTC)

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