Times 27351 – Does a German Dogger Bight?

16 minutes for this light hearted offering, which for the first time in my 5 years of blogging regularity, does not (as far as I can see) have a ‘hidden word’ clue. Apart from the sneaky puzzles from yesteryear which occasionally pop up, of course. Does our setter know something we don’t in the surface of 1a? I liked 8d because it made me think nostalgically of the Shipping Forecasts on Radio 4, for which at one time I could ‘do’ the areas in order from memory, now replaced by the Periodic Table for my sleep induction.

Just a reminder; ( )* = anagram fodder, italics = anagrist, underline = definition, DD = double definition.

Across
1 Knowing those swinging both ways bound to be high up in church (10) EDIT apparently there was a late edit ! after I’d printed off my online edition to solve. It now reads “Knowing bachelor is bound …”. How the first version got past the censor is a mystery, and who spotted the bad taste? See various comments below.
ARCHBISHOP – ARCH = knowing, BIS = bisexuals, (now B = bachelor, IS), HOP = bound.
6 Unhappy about hard run (4)
DASH – SAD reversed, H for hard.
9 Not captured outside Mons initially is correct (10)
UNMISTAKEN – UNTAKEN = not captured, insert M = mons, I = initially is.
10 Philosopher works? (4)
MILL – DD, as in John Stuart Mill.
12 Progressive splitting around in-patients’ toilet? (7-7)
FORWARD-LOOKING – a WARD LOO would be an in-patients’ toilet; insert into FORKING = splitting.
14 Showing due respect to Channel islands over hard water area (6)
ICECAP – CI = Channel Islands. /reverse that. PACE = showing due respect to; (the meaning is in Collins, from Latin Pax pace).  Reverse that too.
15 For mine, aluminium is wastefully extravagant (8)
PRODIGAL – PRO = for, DIG = mine, AL = Al, aluminium.
17 Diamond in box king left queen (8)
SPARKLER – SPAR = box, K = king, L = left, ER = Queen.
19 Stone, plastic or zinc (6)
ZIRCON – (OR ZINC)*.
22 Story by Scheherazade, perhaps, nearly a real treasure (3,2,1,8)
ONE IN A THOUSAND – Scheherezade told the king 1,001 stories, each finished the following night, in order to avoid being decapitated, as he had done to his previous 1,000 virgin brides after one night so they could never be unfaithful. He married her in the end; perhaps they had run out of virgins? Nice music though.
24 Some returned in carriage (4)
TRAP – PART reversed.
25 Torch English home — note what then appears? (4,6)
FIRE ENGINE – FIRE = torch, ENG, IN, E = note. Not the best ever clue.
26 Part of film is material for audience (4)
REEL – Sounds like REAL = material.
27 Republican leads top-secret rolling review (10)
RETROSPECT – R, (TOPSECRET)*.
Down
1 Water in a boggy place, mostly (4)
AQUA – A, QUA(G).
2 Arrive holding prize dessert dish (7)
COMPOTE – Insert POT (prize) into COME.
3 Husband and wife coping with tailing vehicle moving in the outback (12)
BUSHWHACKING – H, W HACKING (coping) follows BUS.
4 Terribly artsy Romeo with many famous actors (6)
STARRY – (ARTSY R)*
5 Wartime operation ended by Kitchener, perhaps (8)
OVERLORD – OVER = ended, LORD = Kitchener, perhaps.
7 Enduring bachelor involved in giving help (7)
ABIDING – B inserted into AIDING
8 Order for copter to stop flying in German island (10)
HELIGOLAND – HELI, GO LAND being the relevant order.
11 Bank handsome victory on beach? (7,5)
GOODWIN SANDS – GOOD WIN = handsome victory, SANDS = beach. Sandbank in the North Sea.
13 So to hers excitedly around nine in cowboy gear? (3-7)
SIX-SHOOTER – Insert IX = nine into (SO TO HERS)*.
16 Stand across from top amusement park attraction (8)
BESTRIDE – the BEST RIDE is the top amusement park attraction.
18 Mean storm follows hail (7)
AVERAGE – AVE = Latin for ‘hail’, RAGE = storm.
20 Disadvantage with very good pen (7)
CONFINE – CON(TRA) = disadvantage, FINE = very good.
21 One who’s affected position over Europe (6)
POSEUR – POS short for position, EUR short for Europe.
23 Quick and effective line out of Dutch city (4)
DEFT – DELFT has L removed.

70 comments on “Times 27351 – Does a German Dogger Bight?”

    1. And what pray was for brekker? Slivovic and lime marmalade from Milosovic & CO!?

      Edited at 2019-05-15 05:53 am (UTC)

  1. 8:44 … and mostly very biffable, but fun.

    Pip – my puzzle has a differently worded clue for 1a — I assume you printed yours earlier this morning or last night. It now reads:

    Knowing bachelor is bound to be high up in church (10)

    Not quite as end-of-the-pier as the version you had! I wonder why and when that got changed.

    1. Yes, I have ‘bachelor is bound’ too, and that’s what appears in the printed edition.

      No solving time to offer as I nodded off overnight and completed it this morning. DK QUAG without ‘mire’, or the required meaning of BUSHWHACKING – to me it’s to do with an ambush. BESTRIDE and FIRE ENGINE were my last two in, the latter because I had thought English was just E and IN (home) fitted in the middle of the answer instead of towards its end.

      Innocent as I am I also didn’t understand horryd’s acronym so I looked it up and found: “Surface Trajectory Based Operations (method of defining aircraft flight path)”, and with RAF Lyneham as the subject of the clue I assumed that was what he was referring to.

      Edited at 2019-05-15 06:11 am (UTC)

        1. I know Cheddington of course but nothing of its activity as an airbase which I gather closed in 1952 some 30 years before I came to the area.
          1. According to the local papers it was still being used for clandestine purposes well into the seventies. Keep well away from Cheddington Hill!
    2. Indeed, noted, I have amended the blog see 1a, but it was thus, I didn’t make it up!
  2. Nope! Very happy with your parsing of 1ac ARCH-BIS-HOP
    Sotira’s version leaves much to be desired!

    Time 32 mins.

    FOI 2dn COMPOTE
    LOI 16dn BESTRIDE
    COD 3dn BUSHWHACKING
    WOD 8dn HELIGOLAND once an English Island! We bombed it flat in 1945.

    Where’s Kevin? (Wally?)

    Edited at 2019-05-15 05:51 am (UTC)

  3. I rather like the original definition in 1ac, but I gather it never made it online. Hesitated over AQUA, as I didn’t know QUAG (which ODE says is archaic). I figured ‘German island’ was a misleading ‘German’ and ‘island’, and I was duly misled–not knowing, I thought, any German islands helped–but the L G L checkers brought the place to mind, and the H gave me my LOI DASH (don’t know why it took me so long to get it).
    1. I didn’t know QUAG but I did know Quagmire, so I derived it from that.
        1. I’ve never actually watched an episode of FG but a quick google put me in the picture:-)
  4. Bright and early for a change, in advance of my trip to Iona. Despite the ease of this, it was very enjoyable, with an extensive knowledge of the North Sea and the Low Countries required – not much use here on Mull… WOD BUSHWHACKING will whack a few bushes today in its honour.
  5. 40 minutes, though it felt longer, held up as I was by my usual shocking lack of geographic knowledge. I knew neither HELIGOLAND nor GOODWIN SANDS, and to cap those, I’ll shamefacedly admit to not knowing where Delft was.

    I’ve started reading history books since I’ve been solving daily; perhaps an atlas might be my next educational read, though Mary Beard’s SPQR is in the queue first.

    Still managed to get from FOI 1a ARCHBISHOP to LOI 16d BESTRIDE without any harm, though.

    Edited at 2019-05-15 07:11 am (UTC)

  6. I wonder who has the clout to change a dubiously worded clue after publication? Is there perhaps an alarm bell that rings when some algorithm spots potential impropriety? Is the Editor dragged out of bed to provide a hasty correction lest Outraged of Tunbridge Wells (or Lambeth Palace) moves to shut down the crossword? I think we should be told.
    I polished this off in a sprightly 13.45, despite wondering whether THOUSAND was right because I couldn’t get any of the crossing words.
    BUSHWHACKING (like Jack) I knew as something you did in the Wild West with a SIX-SHOOTER. As ever, our Australian friends have a friendlier, gentler take.
  7. COD to HELIGOLAND.

    There is also a tasteless clue in today’s QC.

    12′ 19” thanks pip and setter.

  8. 14:48. Great fun, this.
    I’m glad they changed 1ac. It would be of dubious taste at the best of times but less than a week after a report revealed that the activities of a bishop who was a predatory paedophile were hushed up for decades by the Archbishop of Canterbury, it’s a bit worse than that.

    Edited at 2019-05-15 07:09 am (UTC)

    1. Yes, I imagine the bisexuals would object strongly to being associated with that kind of thing.
      1. The replacement clue is still a bit nudge-nudge wink-wink for my taste but it’s at least capable of innocent interpretation.
        1. New word i learned today: PACE.
          Respect, but I disagree with you: Matt was saying that people, be they hetereosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or other, would be appalled to hear of peadophiles, and especially paedophiles in positions of power or trust. As I am, and as I’m sure you are appalled.
          1. I’m not sure I understand where the disagreement is tbh. I think the clue invites the inference that bisexuals are the abusers, which is why it’s so awful. The ‘bachelor’ wording is similar if you read it as a euphemism, and only better in that you don’t have to. But I don’t like it much better.
            1. Certainly I had a minor eyebrow raise at the (original, bisexual) clue, which I think is arguably beyond the pale. In dubious taste, as you say.
              What I took exception to was your association of any particular group of people, who weren’t paedophiles, with paedophilia.

              1. The clue does that. That’s precisely why I object to it.

                Edited at 2019-05-16 09:23 am (UTC)

              2. I’m sorry but this comment is still really bothering me. It’s almost the precise opposite of what I meant and the idea that I would make these associations upsets me.
                1. My apologies, I had missed what you were trying to say: That the clue implied the connection (as I didn’t see it that way). I was incorrectly assuming that you were implying the connection, but unintentionally and without even noticing.
                  Again, apologies.
                  1. Thanks isla3. I must have expressed myself badly but I don’t want to be misunderstood.
  9. The printed version has the cleaned-up version. I’m sure that changing it was a wise decision, one I would have made, but that happening so late in the day reminds me of the riposte to Cosmo Lang after the abdication- “In Christian charity, how scant you are. Oh! Old Lang Swine, how full of Cantuar.” I stand condemned. 22 minutes with LOI the innocuous DASH. COD to HELIGOLAND. I was briefly thrown on ICECAP by the “islands” in the clue not being capitalised, although there is no reason why it had to be. There were quite a few fun answers, so I’m marking this as enjoyable. Thank you Pip and setter.

    Edited at 2019-05-15 07:48 am (UTC)

    1. 12 points deduction – yikes! That’s a mountain to climb. Can they appeal?
      1. Apparently we can, but it’s not likely to succeed. There could be a further points deduction for not fulfilling the last fixture too. Anderson or the Davies family should have taken us into Administration once relegation was obvious last year. We’d have had the points deduction then, the players wouldn’t have gone on strike with the Administrator running the show, and we’d have started the new season all square in Division 1. The supporters next season are being made to suffer for the conduct of the previous owners, and the appallingly bad regulatory oversight by the EFL. That crazy flirtation with Bassini has cost us dearly.
        1. I’m not sure that “EFL” and “regulatory” belong in the same sentence. Here’s hoping they can consolidate next season, and then make progress thereafter.
        2. Leeds got to the playoffs in the season we suffered a 15 point deduction so there’s hope yet.
  10. Very easy today but not uninteresting, if I’m unmistaken.
    Re 1ac, I prefer the original. I rather like tasteless clues. Sorry… big mistake, to get too po-faced about things.
    Heligoland used to be Danish, until we annexed it for ourselves. We then sold it to Germany in return for interests in Africa which we used to annex Zanzibar. The inhabitants in both cases having absolutely no say in the matter .. Victorians, eh?
    As for the 1001 Nights, I have read it .. in two volumes, it does go on rather. It is NOT a book for the po-faced!

    Edited at 2019-05-15 07:51 am (UTC)

    1. This is a clue that manages to be offensive simultaneously to three different groups of people, and makes light of a subject that I don’t think is remotely funny. If that makes me po-faced, so be it. If anything I think I’ve been too kind to the replacement.
  11. Thanks, Pip, particularly for ICECAP which I failed to parse.
    This is a pangram all bar a J.
    When I lived in Australia we called it bush bashing (two words).
  12. Given this is rated as easy by the Snitch I feel like my tiredness affected my time. Having got home at 11:30 last night I fell asleep on the commute whilst solving this morning. Clearly I am no Verlaine.

    I was pleased to see one of the few pieces of classical music I am familiar with today – Scheherazade was the music on the Commodore 64 computer game Tales of the Arabian Nights. That still didn’t help me with it being my penultimate answer before limping home with BESTRIDE.

  13. Like others an easy but enjoyable puzzle. Also, didn’t know BUSHWHACKED other than as an ambush

    I do hope the setter visits the blog and tells us about 1A – can you imagine the political correct panic that ensued in the corridors of power when somebody realised the “mistake”. Would loved to have been a fly on the wall!

  14. Easy and enjoyable here, too. I was pleased, as I always am when I construct an unknown from the cryptic, by figuring out Goodwin Sands, and like Kevin thought twice about quad. The rest went pretty quickly.

  15. Seems like I made heavy weather of this one with a few clues holding me up. ICECAP in particular held me up at the end as I considered ICEWAY (AWE back) but couldn’t account for the Y. I eventually saw PACE. It took me a while to parse BUSHWHACKING, even though I was fairly sure it was correct. I couldn’t see CONFINE for ages either, even though I had CON from the start. Ah well at least I had an all green grid. 41:29. Thanks setter and Pip.
    1. For some reason I came up with IPECAC first (no pun intended), and had to stop and think it through.
  16. This one fell into place quickly, meaning my only pause for thought involved the possibility of QUAG having a life of its own without the MIRE, which is new to me, but seemed a quite reasonable inference given the circs.
  17. I actually play Family Guy on my phone, but I turn the sound off. Tried the TV show, but it wasn’t for me.
  18. ….which was actually “unreal”.

    Apart from having to remove my hastily biffed BEAM ENGINE, this presented few difficulties, and the QC is arguably trickier today.

    FOI MILL
    LOI ICECAP (a “duh” moment !)
    COD GOODWIN SANDS
    TIME 10:19

  19. 17:00 for all but 16d. I eventually stuck in Heatwire. Westlife was considered.

    How about “Rare aim?” as an alternative to 22ac?

  20. All this talk about 1ac and so far as I can see nobody has mentioned the fact that it is surely faulty: an archbishop is a high-up in church. The fact that he is high up in church is surely not good enough as a definition.

    It also seems to me that it’s very close to being a pangram: only J is missing I think, and that could esily have been incorporated: 10ac could have been JILL, and no doubt J could have arreared elsewhere too. Or perhaps it does and I’ve just missed it. And perhaps the setter didn’t care and this only happened by chance.

  21. Quite a RETROSPECTive feel to this what with Pip’s shipping forecasts and DDay. The clues did conjure up more than one narrative (not necessarily nudge nudge). The handsome PRODIGAL was a DASHing POSEUR who set a TRAP for the ARCHBISHOP who MISTAKENly thought the ZIRCON was a REEL SPARKLER. While the FORWARD-LOOKING philosopher DEFTly called in the ENGINEs before the FIRE could melt the ICECAP. Enough of that. 14.08
    1. As Lord Gnome’s senior employee would say when Glenda Slagg waxed lyrical, “That’s enough, Ed.”
  22. Good spot – from my quick bit of research I can only find the hyphenated “high-up” for the noun. You are truly eagle-eyed…or are you eagle eyed? 😉
  23. After a bruising experience with the QC earlier this morning, this was a lunchtime treat. I was solving on paper so no problems of taste. But after watching the first episode of Years and Years last night on the BBC, I’m not sure where lines are now drawn. I must say Emma Thompson is very good at accents.
    Anyway I solved the puzzle without too many traumas. A big help was Heligoland which I remembered from a stay in Hamburg.My last two were ZIRCON and CONFINE.
    COD to HELIGOLAND. David

    Edited at 2019-05-15 01:18 pm (UTC)

  24. Heard of J S MILL but had no idea why. Homework – bone up on random philosophers. Took a while over ICECAP and POSEUR
  25. Not very tough today, so not much to say from here. Only held up by assuming TRAP was TRAM for a while, despite not matching the wordplay, and just having to ignore the fact that I thought ‘pose’ and ‘eur’ overlapped at the POSEUR clue, until I realized that in US sporting notation, ‘pos’ is short for position, so I assume it is also used that way over there. Regards.
  26. I get the paper edition and couldn’t quite believe the original 1 across. Quite a good clue if one knows nothing of the news old or new. 19 minutes. Goodwin Sands recalls the inimitable Chesterton poem, The Rolling English Road.

    Before the Roman came to Rye or out to Severn strode,
    The rolling English drunkard made the rolling English road.
    A reeling road, a rolling road, that rambles round the shire,
    And after him the parson ran, the sexton and the squire;
    A merry road, a mazy road, and such as we did tread
    The night we went to Birmingham by way of Beachy Head.

    I knew no harm of Bonaparte and plenty of the Squire,
    And for to fight the Frenchman I did not much desire;
    But I did bash their baggonets because they came arrayed
    To straighten out the crooked road an English drunkard made,
    Where you and I went down the lane with ale-mugs in our hands,
    The night we went to Glastonbury by way of Goodwin Sands.

    His sins they were forgiven him; or why do flowers run
    Behind him; and the hedges all strengthening in the sun?
    The wild thing went from left to right and knew not which was which,
    But the wild rose was above him when they found him in the ditch.
    God pardon us, nor harden us; we did not see so clear
    The night we went to Bannockburn by way of Brighton Pier.

    My friends, we will not go again or ape an ancient rage,
    Or stretch the folly of our youth to be the shame of age,
    But walk with clearer eyes and ears this path that wandereth,
    And see undrugged in evening light the decent inn of death;
    For there is good news yet to hear and fine things to be seen,
    Before we go to Paradise by way of Kensal Green.

  27. Felt that I should have been quicker on this one, but was foxed by various issues, mainly MILL, HELIGOLAND and GOODWIN SANDS.

    I actually liked FIRE ENGINE (made me smile inwardly) if perhaps not technically good, but a straightforward charade, no?

    Did the non bisexual version of this puzzle on my handheld computer device, aka phone. Normally pick up the dead tree variety but left voucher at home. Perhaps the clonk on my head still has me bejangled?

    LOI MILL
    COD 25a for the amusement factor.

    Thanks to setter and blogger.

    Three month challenge : 23/25.

    WS

    Edited at 2019-05-16 06:59 am (UTC)

  28. 22:26. A late solve so I missed out on the original version of 1ac. I liked 12ac and 17ac. Icecap took ages – looking at the wrong end for the definition. Pleased to work out the unknown Goodwin sands. A fun, breezy solve.
  29. Well, I only saw the Bowdlerized version of 1ac. As it happens, I am a fellow of the BIS, an organisation sadly too obscure to make it into the crossword.

    BUSHWHACKING (the clue for which could have been so, so much worse) held me up for a little while, as did PRODIGAL – I’d more or less convinced myself that “propital” was a word before GOODWIN SANDS put me right. I enjoyed the hard water at 14ac, and 19ac’s clueing. HELIGOLAND evoked a subvocal groan. And does anyone actually say “ONE IN A THOUSAND”? I think inflation has rendered it rather a limp compliment. Also, we seem to have been a bit short on science-related clues of late, but I live in hope.

    Like [gothick_matt], I am indebted as ever to Messrs Python for all of my knowledge of philosophers.

    Twenty-four minutes all in.

  30. Thanks setter and pip
    Took almost the hour to complete across several sessions. A few new terms for me – HELIGOLAND, GOODWIN SANDS, QUAG and that meaning of PACE.
    Had no issues in seeing the ‘hard water area’ for ICECAP, but with that unknown PACE, it took a while to understand the why – great clue though. Have only heard of BUSHWHACKING as a form of ambush down here rather than just ‘moving in the outback’ – did like the HACKING bit of the charade.
    Finished in the SW corner with DEFT (even though have seen it clued similarly before), POSEUR (differently clued here) and that tricky BESTRIDE (that wasn’t so hard in retrospect).

Comments are closed.