Times 25,884: With These Clues, You’re Really Spoiling Us

Author   VerlainePosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
A fun puzzle this morning, not too difficult – I was able to fill in quite a lot of the top left corner more or less immediately (2D pulling off the impressive feat of being self-describing) – but not without some chewier clues to deal with thereafter. Easy to get into, harder to get out of, just the way I like them. I didn’t time myself properly but I think I was somewhere in the 15-20 minute range, so I’m not going to be surprised when the rest of you prodigies report some sub-10-minute scores.

As stated I hit the ground running, so FOI was probably 1A. LOI was 10A – the shortest words can be the hardest, if there isn’t too much to work with on the surface! My COD is probably 20A because I appreciated the “Gang of Four” device, not to mention the fact that that’s the name of a superb post-punk group from the 70s/80s, making this crossword exceptionally relevant to my interests…

Across
1 STEM – support: S [second] + {i}TEM [article, “ignoring first”]
4 AMBASSADOR – minister: ADOR{e} [worship “shortened”] after B [bishop] in AMASS [collect]
9 GUINEA FOWL – a bird: GUINEA [“out-of-date bread”, ie old currency] + F{eeding} + OWL [other bird]
10 QUIT – give up: QUIT{e} [every bit, “nearly”]
11 ADAGIO – slow movement: A GI [a soldier] in ADO [trouble]
12 MINISTRY – government department: MINIS [small cars] + TRY [tax]
14 USER – junkie: US{h}ER [“heartless” conduct]
15 SUBJECTION – bondage: SUBJECT [participant] + I ON [number one, ie NO I, “rejected”]
17 DISEMBARKS – lands: (MISSED*) [“at sea”] around BARK [bay]
20 MOST – the majority: {parliamen}T SOM{etimes} [“gang of four”, ie four letters, “backing”]
21 TEMPTING – attractive: {sco}T [“finally”] “stops” TEMPING [working as locum]
23 LUSTRE – merit, distinction: (RESULT*) [“different”]
24 RANK – triple def [utter / highly offensive / order]
25 APOLOGETIC – sorry: POLO [explorer] in AG + ETIC [middle of {par}AG{uay} + call = CITE “back”]
26 HIT THE SPOT – was just right: punny “potential slogan for acne treatment”
27 TIER – bank: double def with person joining, ie one who ties

Down
2 TOUT DE SUITE – “immediately from abroad”: TOUT [solicitor] + SUIT [case] in DEE{d} [action “almost”]
3 MENAGERIE – collection of beasts: M [male] + NAG [horse] in EERIE [sinister]
4 AT A LOSS – stumped: A TOSS [“what the uncaring don’t give”] when A L [a learner] “comes in”
5 BLOOMSBURY GROUP – [G.E.] Moore’s followers: GROUP [collect] after BLOOMS [flowers] + BURY [put in ground]
6 SILENCE – put a stop to: double def with “what’s prayed before toast”, as in “pray silence!”
7 DOUBT – question: D OUT [daughter, wrong] about B [bachelor]
8 RATTY – cross: RAY [beam] “spanning” T T [two junctions]
13 ROOM SERVICE – “good hotel will offer it”: (CRIME OVER SO*) “appalling”
16 TIME SHEET – worker’s schedule: HE in (ESTIMATE – A*) “false” “regardless of A”
18 BRIGADE – contingent: BRIGAND – N [“nameless” outlaw] + E [European]
19 SOLD OUT – exhausted: SOLD{iers} [troops “not half”] + OUT [exposed]
21 TORCH – burn: TOR [rubbish = ROT “written about”] + CH [church]
22 MANET – Impressionist: MEANT [was determined] “to put down” E [English]

34 comments on “Times 25,884: With These Clues, You’re Really Spoiling Us”

  1. “the essence of what Bloomsbury drew from Moore is contained in his statement that ‘one’s prime objects in life were love, the creation and enjoyment of aesthetic experience and the pursuit of knowledge'”

    And so say we all?

  2. 20 minutes, quick by my standards, for a straightforward solve with no unknown words and little GK required.

    I knew BLOOMSBURY GROUP from studying Virginia Woolf at A Level though I didn’t know Moore. I vaguely remember Leonard someone being another member. Or was it Lionel? At 20A I was tempted by an unparsed MASS for majority but thankfully caution prevailed and I spotted the smooth reverse hidden, also my COD.

  3. Thanks to Verlaine for taking over my old Friday slot and I’m glad I didn’t land you with a stinker to mark the occasion.

    This was all quite easy apart from 5dn, my last one in, which I eventually solved by working out what fitted the checkers rather than understanding the workings of the clue. In my book this is a somewhat obscure reference since Moore was not actually a member of the group in question, only that his philosophy influenced their beliefs which they also took from many other sources.

    43 minutes with the last 8 spent on 9ac and 5dn.

    1. Mm, I would never have got “Bloomsbury Group” just from the reference to Moore, and indeed I had to look it up in Wikipedia to find out which Moore we were talking about. Fortunately I saw “GROUP” early on and once it obviously began with BLOOMS it was easy enough to put 2 and 2 together…
  4. I obviously know less than I thought about the Bloomsbury lot (none of who agree with me, even if early V. Woolf – Leonard was her husband – is okay), as I wrote in ‘Bloomington’ at first. Actually, I wrote in ‘Bloomingto’ as there were only ten spaces, but didn’t seem to notice. (The ‘group’ had already gone in, in case anyone is wondering how I man – no, I thought not).

    If you hit a zit, I rather imagine it would burst, so that might well be a slogan up there with ‘You’re never alone with a Strand’ – the fag commercial which bombed in the 50s because it reminded folks how friendless they were.

  5. Completed trudgingly; when a clue like 21 dn. takes forever to fall there’s trouble afoot. However it all fell together at the end. 24.28. Strange how the B. Group’s aura still seems to hang around. Something to do with manic talent and the antics of a privileged class I suppose. Personally I like V. Woolf’s ‘A Room of One’s Own’ but find the pages of the others I’ve tried turn backwards.
  6. 17 mins. Count me as another who didn’t know the Moore/BLOOMSBURY GROUP connection and I didn’t solve it until quite a few checkers were in place. I thought LUSTRE was a well-hidden anagram because of the double definition, and it led to my LOI, SOLD OUT, where I hadn’t been thinking of the correct meaning of “exhausted”.
  7. 20.44. After yesterday, we obviously needed reminding of what a Proper Times Crossword looks like. With apologies to the setter who had the misfortune to follow yesterdays fireworks/explosion in a typesetting factory/travesty/work of genius (delete to taste), my oath. this was dull! Nothing wrong with it, though.
  8. As z8 says, nothing wrong with this but nothing to get excited about. I did not know the Moore connection to the BG but having seen GROUP and seeing flowers and putting into the ground, it had to be. Despite Ed’s comment yesterday,I will continue to look for NINAs, not least because occasionally, they appear apparently unintentially.
  9. After spotting Ratty at 8dn I spent ages looking for Mole and Badger but to no avail. 16 minutes and QUIT LOI.
  11. Well Moore wasn’t a member of the Bloomsbury Group for a start, so I’m not surprised some people found the clue a bit tricky.

    Was this dull after yesterday? Well, it was probably quite a sedate run out anyway, with yesterday’s being an aberration/ abomination (delete as per z8).

    22 minutes.

  12. 24m. For some reason I got completely stuck for at least ten minutes on my last two in, 17ac DISEMBARKS and 18dn BRIGADE. They don’t seem that hard in retrospect, but then they never do.
    Like others I didn’t know about G.E. Moore, but it wasn’t really necessary.
    1. K, they were my L2i as well, brigade before disembarks. I think what made the former tricky (for me at least) was, even having figured out how the clue was supposed to work, having to then decide if outlaw was a verb or noun and if contingent was a noun or adjective (as I think you work in a similar field to me you may have had contingent liabilities in mind).
      1. I didn’t figure out how 18dn worked for ages: I thought it was going to be a word for outlaw without an N inside a European, perhaps a Dane. I also wasted ages looking for the wrong sorts of bay. Eventually I wrote out the letters I had for 17ac and the anagram fodder from MISSED, went through the alphabet for letter six, failed to get it, started again, and then kicked myself. With the B in place 18dn suddenly became obvious.
        I think I tried every conceivable meaning for ‘contingent’, but as I thought it was the definition it didn’t get me very far.
          1. Hmm. I wonder what was going on in my brain when I wrote that. No wonder I couldn’t solve the blinking clue.
            1. I had the same problem, last in DISEMBARKS and BRIGADE, in spite of fiddling with an anagram of MISSED around something, didn’t think of lands as the def for ages. And same level of ignorance about the BG but saw flowers, group, put it in. Half an hour watching the end of the cricket, a meaningless win at last.
  13. 35 minutes for a fairly straightforward solve, but not dull, in my view, since there were several that had me thinking for a while, such as 4, 9 and 15.

    I’m another one who didn’t connect GE Moore with The Bloomsbury Group. From my university days I remember him as one of the founders of modern linguistic philosophy and the editor of Mind.

  14. 15:39, slowed a little at the end by my last two (see above). I tried to get a start with the 4-letter clues but they were mostly a bit tricky with no checkers. For some reason I skipped user so my first in was tier.

    Like others I didn’t know which Moore and thought the expression was B SET.

  15. Didn’t time it but a pretty quick solve – QUIT was my last in.

    I remember reading about the Bloomsbury group when I was aimlessly wandering around London a few years ago, so they went straight in – don’t think I’ve read a word by them but I’ve read plenty about them.

    Rather tight little puzzle I thought – would be a good one for beginners.

  16. Rather a relief to have a relatively straightforward, but still enjoyable, puzzle for once on a Friday. I liked GUINEA FOWL and RATTY.

    As one or two others have mentioned, G.E. Moore was an influence on, but not actually a member of of the Bloomsbury Group, a distinction fairly reflected in the clue’s description of them as his “followers”. I guess the setter felt that to have named one of the better-known BG figures – the Woolfs, Lytton Strachey, E.M. Forster or John Maynard keynes, say – would have have given the game away a bit too easily.

    1. Oh, I didn’t known John Maynard Keynes was in the Bloomsbury Group! An almost infinitesimally tiny claim to fame of mine is that my first girlfriend was his granddaughter.
  17. Good solid Times puzzle, if not particularly remarkable. More of a Peter Siddle than a Mitchell Johnson.
  18. About 15 minutes, ending with RATTY, after the Group. I don’t know Moore and didn’t feel intrigued enough to look him up. Otherwise, a quite straightforward puzzle. After reading comments above I’m going to peruse yesterday’s blog, which my job precluded my being able to comment. Regards.
  19. On a dissenting note, it took me a long time to complete this – probably about an hour. There again I was doing it at 6:30 this morning without any caffeine inside me. But at least I finished it!
    I ran through all the Moores I knew: from Patrick to Henry and Old (of almanac fame), but I hadn’t heard of G E, though once the checkers were in it was pretty obvious.
    The NE corner held me up with 15 surprisingly being my LOI. COD for me was 27 – nice and neat. Someone will probably tell me that it is a pretty standard clue but I’d never seen it before

    Edited at 2014-09-05 05:34 pm (UTC)

  20. Thank goodness to find one that I could finish without too much trouble after yesterday’s torture. I enjoyed it and thought there were some good clues which, for solvers of my level, were chewy enough to puzzle over but infinitely crackable. I can see that it would be less exciting for the experts but I am glad of this level as it keeps me going on and, in theory, improving.
  21. 8:47 for me, so definitely an improvement on yesterday’s disaster. I’m still feeling horribly tired, but I was able to coast home with this one, even though my exhausted brain simply couldn’t think who on earth Moore was in 5dn. (I managed to rule out a few Moores, including Bobby, Dudley, Henry, Patrick and the “Moore’s law” chappy – Gordon, now I’ve looked him up – but G. E. just refused to come forward from the back of my mind.)

    A pleasant, straightforward solve.

    1. Thanks anonymous. Did you actually bother to read any of the other posts on the subject?

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