Times 25,253

A not entirely straightforward 15:19, with some pretty obvious clues interspersed with some less obvious, nay downright cunning ones. Not to mention a couple of quite obscure bits of knowledge which, I am ready to discover, are not regarded as “general” by other solvers. Though as usual, that remains to be seen.

Across
1 AUGUSTINE – AUGUST (stately) + IN (home) + English. With the lift and separate, the saint doesn’t actually have to be English, of course, so we can take our pick from leading thinker of the early church, English martyr, or first Archbishop of Canterbury.
6 PILOT – double def. A pilot isn’t an actual air traffic controller, of course, but each pilot undeniably controls some traffic in the air.
9 TRACT =”TRACKED”.
10 OVERPOWER – OVER(spare) + POWER(juice).
11 PAST PARTICIPLES – (ITSPAPERPLASTIC)*. Nice misleading examples of the form.
13 BROWNING – double def., the gun and the poet (or the poet).
14 GABBRO – BAG(rev.) + BRO. Possibly obscure knowledge #1, an igneous rock.
16 ASPECT – A SPECTRE without the RE:.
18 SANCERRE – Small A.N.C. + ERRED.
21 STRAPPED FOR CASH – (FORCEDPASTSHARP)*. There’s a ruder way to clue this expression, possibly involving mention of Max Mosley.
23 CAESAREANCAESAREA + New.
25 TRIER – TRIGGER (set off) without two Goods. God loves a trier, they say.
26 SKEIN – European in SKIN (on the ground, geese form a gaggle, in the air it’s a skein). Is a skin really a film? I wasn’t entirely convinced.
27 ADHERENTS – A Democrat, HE RENTS. If you’re being picky, of course – and who could imagine a picky crossword solver? – the hypothetical man in the surface who doesn’t buy doesn’t necessarily rent either. Even if we’re talking about property, which is the obvious inference, he might go on living rent-free in his parents’ basement, but I digress. And once I spotted the wordplay, I chuckled.
 
Down
1 ACT UP – Camping in A TUP.
2 GRASSHOPPER – (RAGS)* + SHOPPER.
3 SET UPON – SET UP(organisation) + ON(working).
4 ISOPRENE – (PIONEERS)*. I’d never heard of this, but deduced the correct anagram from knowing about neoprene, which is a similar substance.
5 EMETIC – [ITEM in C.E.]all rev.
6 PAPRIKA – [KIR]rev. in PAPA.
7 LOW – double def. Even before the obvious help given by two checkers in a three letter word, the required Hereford sprang quickly to mind after the Jersey we had quite recently.
8 TURNSTONE – TURNS TO NEST without the STreet.
12 LIBERTARIAN – TAR in LIBERIAN. This sort of libertarian rather than the political sort.
13 BRASSICAS – BRASS(cash) In CASe. “plants that are grown” isn’t the strongest definition, but if the surface makes you picture a load of cabbages with the stalks chopped off before they’re put in a box prior to sale, that makes it an &lit.
15 HALF INCH – IN is literallly half INCH, while HALF-INCH is Cockney rhyming slang for “pinch”.
17 CAPTAIN – APT in CAIN.
19 CURATOR – RAT in [Cu (symbol for copper) + OR].
20 SENECA – possibly obscure knowledge #2, double def., 1) (American) Indian, 2) Roman philosopher.
22 HORUSCHORUS minus the Circa gives the Egyptian god famous for his Eye.
24 EYE – MorlEY Experiment.

34 comments on “Times 25,253”

  1. A resounding Did Not Finish over here. I had never heard of the Seneca people, but didn’t even get the philosopher thanks to my having spelt 23a as CAESARIAN. Please say I’m not the only one who did that.
    1. 23 across – caesarian is shown in the SOED as mainly American usage, strangely it is also shown thus in my Roget’s, both in the index and in the body.
    2. My delight at discovering that gabbro was a word was tempered somewhat by the discovery that caesarian isn’t and that the Medina tribe a) doesn’t exist and b) didn’t name itself after a Roman philosopher.

      That said, Sotira, I’m delighted to be in your club.

      1. Delighted to have you, old chap, along with the several others below who have met the membership criterion by displaying a certain flair for creative failure. Just as soon as I locate suitable premises on Pall Mall I shall be extending an invitation for you to address the members (with accompanying slideshow) on your travels among the lost Medina tribe.
  2. I realised after 50 minutes that there was no way into 20dn for me. I could see I needed to know an Indian and/or a Roman philosopher but couldn’t think of either with those unhelpful checkers ?E?E?A so there was no point in prolonging the agony.

    Other unknowns arrived at through wordplay were ISOPRENE, TURNSTONE and GABBRO but apart from these I found the puzzle quite easy so I was surprised when what had started as a walk in the park turned into a DNF.

    I have no quibble with “doesn’t buy” = “rents” as it works perfectly the other way round and that’s good enough for me.

    I am grateful to “Only Connect” (new series started only yesterday evening) for making me familiar with the Eye of Horus. Can we expect the horned viper and twisted flax any time soon, I wonder?

    Tim, you have some typos at 23ac.

    Edited at 2012-08-28 02:44 am (UTC)

  3. Almost as difficult as yesterday’s. Couldn’t even get into impulse drive in the gamma and delta quadrants, for lack of working the anagram at 21ac. (Shame on me!) The problem was finding a THE in the fodder and sticking to it like glue.

    GABBRO and SENECA proved tricky too. Only finished at all by a bunch of flukes.

  4. 18:03, but I looked up GABBRO as I considered I had little chance of lighting on the right “get” by accident. Banbro is just as likely, for example.
    Sotira can be delighted to know that I had the “I” version too in 23a. Only when I remembered that I’d been to the (amazing) port did I remember that it, at least, had the “E”. SENECA was then a guess on the basis that he was a Roman I had heard of. Prior to that I had sketched in the (wrong spelling and nationality, nothing to do with Rome) philosopher De(r)rida.
    Bordering on the not quite fair, perhaps, but with some fine cluing, of which the economical HALF-INCH. was my CoD.

    12d called to mind perhaps the best of the David Beckham Jokes.

  5. Well, I finished this but only by using reference books to verify a couple of thoughts.

    Obviously GABBRO which is not going to be in many vocabularies and has some unhelpful checkers. The same can be said of SENECA which I obtained from a list of American Indians. The fact that it intersects with obscure and odd spelling of CAESAREAN, that I also looked up, borders on the unfair.

    I think “are grown to” is pure padding at 13D to assist surface reading but contribute nothing to either definition or cryptic.

    This to me is the sort of puzzle that the Crossword Editor should sort out before publication. Not for the first time I find him falling short.

    1. I think you’re being unfair, Jim.

      I’m surprised you take exception to GABBRO, since it definitely comes under the heading of science. I can’t claim to have a vast knowledge of geology, but I’ve known it for years, and certainly not just (if at all) from crosswords.

      CAESAREAN is the normal spelling as far as I’m concerned. (My wife did midwifery as part of her health-visitor training, so this is familiar territory.)

      Surely most people who do the Times crossword can be expected to know one or other meaning of SENECA. In any case, you only have to have been doing the puzzle for just over seven years to have come across “A native American philosopher of old (6)” in No. 22,970 (7 May 2005).

      And objecting to the odd bit of padding which assists the surface reading seems to me overly picky.

      I don’t know how much the Crossword Editor contributed to this puzzle, but I see nothing whatsoever to object to in the final result.

      1. “I don’t know how much the Crossword Editor contributed to this puzzle, but I see nothing whatsoever to object to in the final result.”

        Despite the fact that most of the old hands on here couldn’t solve the puzzle without resorting to books? What about the “other 99%”, the everyday folk who can’t normally polish it off in under 20 minutes. What chance do we have?

    2. Surprised at your annoyance – for me it was standard-to-easy Times fare, with the inevitable 2 or 3 obscure (ie previously unknown to me) words. Today Horus was unknown but obvious, gabbro I vaguely knew, Caesarian (sic) spelt wrongly and a single gap after 23 minutes against the usual 30 minute average.

      Read the rest of the paper and Seneca popped to mind as a Roman, unknown as a philosopher; possibly a Native American though definitely not an Indian. And Caesarean looked feasible. So finished despite the unknowns.

      Rob

  6. Roughly 35 minutes, with quite a time spent on 20 down. I too had initially put in CAESARIAN so it took a few minutes to sort out that.

    PILOT: an air traffic controller friend tells me that some pilots can be a real nuisance, particularly when they appear unannounced on the radar or refuse to speak English; so there might be an “& lit” in 6 across.

    We had IPECAC a couple of Saturdays ago and now EMETIC; is the setter trying to tell us something? Actually, I thought 5 down was a neat clue.

    SKIN as film? I wondered about this, but eventually thought about skins or films on the surface of sauces or rice puddings.

  7. DNF. Done in by SENECA and CAESARIAN (sic), and not by SANCERRE and GABBRO although not for want of trying. Also didn’t know SKEIN as flying ducks, ironically since I grew up holding skeins of my mother’s wool whilst said ducks looked down from the wall. So the SW was problematic again. COD to ADHERENTS
  8. Held up for too long at the end but finally got the right Caesarean and tumbled to Seneca. 41 minutes. Had to guess gabbro. These two tough but I think not quite overstepping the line. Could one argue brassicas are deliberately cultivated, grown as opposed to grow? Liked the improbable Beckham joke.
    1. Yes, I’m sure you’re right about “grown”. There used to be an early morning “weather forecast for farmers and growers” on the wireless, presumably to let them know when to plant out their brassicas.

      That was before the programme was taken over by young women agitating on behalf of crested newts, in the days when there was a man on a crackly telephone line from Birmingham wholesale market intoning “the proice of flat lettisss, waertercress and dairty celery”.

  9. 32 minutes, at least half of that with just the SW and 14ac blank.
    A real curate’s egg this. I very much liked “air traffic controller” as a definition, for example, and I also liked the clues for ADHERENTS, CAPTAIN and ASPECT.
    Some dodgy stuff too, though, as already noted. Neither GABBRO nor BANBRO looked likely to me so I wasted ages trying to find another three-letter word meaning either “get” or “get back”. In the end I couldn’t and decided that GABBRO looked marginally the less outlandish.
    SENECA was the only thing I could think of for 20dn, without which I would undoubtedly have picked the wrong spelling for CAESAREAN. Chambers is subtly judgemental about this spelling:

    Caesarean or Caesarian
    noun
    1. A Caesarean section

    Edited at 2012-08-29 01:43 pm (UTC)

  10. Sotira – me too. Didn’t help that I couldn’t spell 23a and hadn’t heard of 20d or 14a. Mind you it was my 6th cryptic of the day so perhaps the cryptic grey matter had been worn out by the time I didn’t finish this one!
    1. Let me guess… Times, FT, Guardian, Independent, Telegraph… what was the sixth and do you always do these six and in what order?
      1. You forgot the DT Toughie! Always do the six – DT back page first (for about 42 years!), then the Toughie (those two before I start work), then on and off when no-one is looking, Guardian and Independent, and then at lunchtime the Times and then finally the FT. I have only been doing the Times Graun Indy and FT on a regular basis for the last two years.

        Not that I am addicted or anything like that!

        1. Six a day is hardcore Sue! I do the Times/Sunday Times everyday and occasionally the FT (from the newspaper at work).
  11. I liked this more than most, to judge by the other comments. Surely there should be not too much trouble with caesarean, given that the *port* which the clue refers to is always Caesarea?

    No trouble with seneca, but never heard of gabbro; but entered it anyway.

    1. Well of course, but you might equally say that GABBRO shouldn’t cause problems as there’s no such rock as BANBRO. It’s easy when you know the answers!
  12. Would this as fiendish. Turnstone was a long time landing for me even with many of the checkers and I am unconvinced that ‘bro’ means dude, man, I mean this rock gabbro is totally obscure. Had less trouble with ‘Seneca’ and ‘skein’. Is the plural of brassica really brassicas and not brassicae?

    Enigma

  13. The flock seems to arrive at the Times offices a month later with each year that passes – June 2010 (24570), July 2011 (24912) and now August 2012.
  14. Didn’t know Seneca but got everything else. Wasn’t aware of the alternative -ian spelling of Caesarean so no hold ups there. Years ago I climbed the Munros on the Isle of Skye. The rock in the Black Cuillins is mainly gabbro which is very rough and gives great grip. Unfortunately it can also be magnetic which causes your compass needle to spin – not helpful when you’re in the mist and don’t know which way to go!

    Loved Half-Inch and thought the Eye clue was neat with the reference to the famous M-M experiment.

  15. Never met gabbro which floored me at the 35 minute mark. This year I haven’t entered the Times Championship because this sort of thing is happening to me way too often. Is it just me ?
  16. Am I the only person who knew Seneca from a lovely chorus in “The Coronation Of Poppea” (Monteverdi) when they beg him not to commit suicide? (Non morir, Seneca) Anyway, I had heard of the American tribe – I always thought it odd that the tribe was named after a Roman writer! In spite of having ***BRO for 14a I still had to google it. Another new word for me. My LOI. I found lots to enjoy in theis puzzle. 35 minutes. Ann
  17. Didn’t know GABBRO and couldn’t guess it but knew the rest, thought this was a fair and enjoyable puzzle, 20 minutes with just one cheat, a very obscure clue which crosswordsolver.com managed to offer from -A-B-O.
  18. Two in a row. Like yesterday’s, just over an hour, completely correct but I don’t know how, since BRASSICAS, GABBRO, TRIER, SKEIN, TURNSTONE were all lucky guesses based on wordplay. Why can’t I finish the easy ones? (Oh, all the rest of this was easy and until I got to the four last ones in I thought I was going to beat my best time.)
  19. No problems here, 15 minutes. I’d seen GABBRO in earlier puzzles here, I think. And being in NY gave me the home field advantage with SENECA. They were one of the 5 tribes of the Iroquois nation, and the largest of NY’s Finger Lakes is Seneca Lake. Hard for me to foul that one up. Sorry to be so late but work interfered. Regards.
  20. 8:04 for me. Very much my sort of puzzle really. But I made a horribly slow start, and I kept being sidetracked by half-baked guesses including APPEAR for 16ac, HYMEN for 22dn (using HYMN = song), and – much the worst since I spent over a minute on 23ac – CRETACEAN (it’s in the OED) = old (using ACE = delivery, admittedly rather loosely).

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