Times 25136 – Another sting in the tail…

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Dave is unavailable to blog this Friday so I am standing in. I finished most of this comfortably within 30 minutes but then got stuck in the SE corner with 11ac still missing and these took me another 20 minutes to resolve. Only one unknown for me today – at 12ac. 11ac is outrageous and 22ac dodgy unless I am missing something. Orf we go…

Across
1 HAWORTH – HA-Ha (short ditch) encloses WORT (old herb). According to COED ‘wort’ as a herb is archaic, hence ‘old’ in the clue. When it came to selecting a Yorkshire village I was extremely fortunate having completed only this week “The Corpse at the Haworth Tandoori” by Robert Barnard. I am currently reading his entire output of fiction and have only two more (of 48) to go. On edit: Perhaps I should have added for those who may not know, that Haworth is famous as the village in which the Bronte sisters lived. Their father was the parson there. The parsonage, the station, the village and its environs featured in the 1970  film ‘The Railway Children’.
5 BOLSTER – BOLTER (panicked horse) encloses S.
9 SET – SEaT (chair with A taken out).
10 POVERTY TRAP – P, OVERT + PARTY (reversed). Earn a penny, lose a pound in benefits. I wonder if this concept is widely understood outside the UK?
11 AMPHIBIA – Sounds like “am fibbier”. Great fun or an absolutely bloody awful clue depending on your POV. I’m expecting rumblings from the SW later.
12 ABATIS – A+BAT+IS. Unknown to me or forgotten, this is a defence built of felled trees.
15 DHOW – D (departs) + HOW (explain?). An Arabian ship.
16 IMMACULATE – Anagram of CUTE Male AnIMAL.
18 CHIP AND PIN – Two golf terms and something associated with one’s (bank) card. So what it says on the tin really.
19 MEGA – GEM (reversed) + A.
22 ALSACE – AL’S (Bertie’s as in Albert’s?) + ACE (fabulous). I may be missing something but if not, this is awful. I was hoping it relied on a Bertie Wooster connection but I can’t find one and he was Bertram anyway. ALSACE is a wine-growing region of France.
23 BLEAKEST – BEST (defeat) encloses LEAK (escape)
25 PETER GRIMES – PRIMES (some numbers) encloses anagram of GREET. The eponymous hero of Britten’s opera.
27 Deliberately omitted
28 NEPOTIC – NOTICe (brief announcement) encloses EP (record – for those old enough to remember them).
29 CARLYLE – ELY (see) + L + RAC (drivers – Royal Automobile Club) all reversed. The historian is Thomas Carlyle.
Down
1 HUSBAND – HAND (worker) encloses USB (Universal Serial Bus). The definition is ‘save’.
2 WITH-PROFITS – Anagram of IT’S WORTH Pennies IF.
3 REPAIR – Double definition, one of them a bit humorous.
4 HAVE IT MADE – Double definition.
5 BORE – Sounds like “boar”.
6 LAYABOUT – LAY + ABOUT
7 TAR – TARn (lake minus N). Ralph Rackstraw is a lowly seaman in ‘HMS Pinafore’ by G&S.
8 RIPOSTE – Anagram of PERT SO I
13 TEA CEREMONY –  Previously omitted in error – thanks to McT for pointing this out. Make of it what you will; my brain’s dead  and I’m almost past caring! Later: Okay, I found some energy from somewhere and the second part of the clue is a reference to the time being perpetually stuck at 6:00 during the Hatter’s tea party so it was destined to go on for ever.
14 PAN-ISLAMIC – PAN IS (God lives) + anagram of CLAIM
17 BACCARAT – BACk (not fully support) + CARAT (gold standard). A game in which one plays the banker.
18 CRAMPON – CRAMP (painful condition) + ON. A spiky boot attachment.
20 ASTARTE – A + E (European) encloses START (beginning). She’s a fertility goddess.
21 CAESAR – Caesar’s wife being above suspicion came up somewhere else within the past week so the saying was fresh in my mind although unfortunately I had already forgotten that her name was Pompeia. The second part of the clue is a reference to Caesarean Section which is sometimes informally referred to as a ‘Caesar’.
24 Deliberately omitted
26 TAP – Double definition.

41 comments on “Times 25136 – Another sting in the tail…”

  1. Hard! And some of it a bit on the unfair side: AMPHIBIA being a case in point — is there a homophone indicator? Had no idea about WITH-PROFITS. Or ABATIS. Or Ralph Rackstraw. Or CHIP AND PIN — a recent Brit expression for the use of plastic?

    The clue for CARLYLE (29ac) is probably about the best of them. Though 14dn is also pretty good.

    Notice 13dn is missing from the blog. Probably just as well!

    Edited at 2012-04-13 04:22 am (UTC)

    1. I suppose the setter would argue that the homophone – such as it is – is indicated by ‘confession’, doing double duty, plus the get-out-of-jail question mark.

      Edited at 2012-04-13 04:28 am (UTC)

  2. I thought AMPHIBIA, CHIP AND PIN and ALSACE were all pants, in descending order of pantsness. This took me ages – not the day to have frequent interruptions – finishing with BACCARAT, where I was not helped by the fact that my card-playing experience these days is limited to cho dai di.

    I really must remember that Peter Grimes was a fisherman. SAINT THOMAS was my placeholder there for a while.

    Thanks, Jack, for remindign me that a USB is also a bus in crosswordland. Saved me complaining about the missing anagram indicator.

  3. I wouldn’t normally bother, but since the hyphen makes such a diffeence at 2dn, giving us this ugly financial concept descriptor and would-be adjective, you may want to add it for posterity!
  4. 25.4 on the clock, which looks as if it might be quite a decent time for his one.
    A lot of it felt like you were being let in on a private joke – if, that is, you stumbled across the answer. AMPHIBIA is a case in point – a made-up word even before you worked out what it sounded like, undoubtedly designed to make you groan. ABATIS is a Christmas Cracker joke, or would be if it was common currency.
    I rather enjoyed it, but I can see why others wouldn’t, not least because there’s some pretty parochial stuff in there: if you don’t know your G&S, TAR is just a guess; if Britten’s not your thing, P. GRIMES is hazardous; two of several that have strayed in from a TLS where you might expect to look stuff up. And then you don’t have to know your Wodehouse for ALSACE.
    I happen to know the money ones at 2, 10 and 18 – which probably makes me one of the lucky ones, I guess, though I’m convinced by experience that “with profits” means “abandon hope, all ye that enter”.
    CoD? I’m afraid AMPHIBIA’s the one you’re going to remember.
  5. DNF. Abandoned ship early on this one. Never on setter’s wavelength and not tempted to persevere. Thanks, jackkt, for an excellent blog. Fully demonstrated that I made the right decision to give up!
  6. DNF abandoned after 38 minutes. Had the same unknowns as others and thought those clues were weak for what are likely to be new words for the ‘average solver’. Also lack of knowledge for 25a and 21d so doomed to failure. I found this all a bit irritating and frustrating in about equal measure, 19a typifying the tone as a rather lame attempt to be ‘cool’ and ‘clever’ but in an oldest swinger in town sort of way failing on both counts. In the same vein as 21d I think I’ll go for an India tonight!
  8. What a rubbish offering – I want my money back. Well blogged Jack.

    The tripe has already been highlighted with 11A and 22A leading the parade of junk. So bad they nearly leave me speechless. And why should I know about some invented sailor called Rackstraw?

    WITH-PROFITS is a great misnomer foisted upon the British public by the actuarial profession. Its really “With Such Surplus Distribution As We Decree” where “Surplus” is an actuarial juggling act. When the investment performance fails to meet the actuarial model it becomes “With Losses” as millions are finding out. There is a huge social problem hidden here with people living in houses on which they will never be able clear their mortgage

    1. Thanks for the pithy definition of w-p. I did a Google search to try and ascertain its meaning, which was met by a load of gobbledegook.
  9. Found this quite a challenge; it took me exactly an hour. Got off to a false start by putting in PICKET for 12 across (thinking of picket fences and picket lines.)

    Confess to smiling at AMPHIBIA, but have been puzzling over the following: if you lie more convincingly, does that make you a worse liar or a better liar? I’ve no idea, I’m far too honest!

    I remember reading about the frenzied spring festivals to ASTARTE in Hierapolis, which are described in eye-watering detail in Frazer’s Golden Bough. Reading the comments above it looks as though some contributors wish the setter a similar fate!

  10. Found this one hard work and was pleased to come up only two short: had a blank for Amphibia and a wrong guess for Aisack not Alsace. Not a bad effort though (a couple of years ago I’d have got nowhere near finishing) and I was pleased to get the unknowns Tar, Nepotic, Astarte, Abatis and Peter Grimes from the wordplay.
  11. 21:18 for me, so a bit on the tough side but not outrageously so. Overall it was pretty good though, and certainly not unfair, even if a few of the clues wouldn’t have been out of place in the TLS. There’s nothing wrong with needing a bit of literary knowledge to finish the Times Crossword, and if you learn something where’s the harm in that?

    Comments such as “pants”, “awful” and “tripe” are out of place and unhelpful. It’s not the setter’s fault if you’ve never heard of a particular word or phrase.

  12. Too tough for me – thanks for all the explanations – I expect that if my lunch hour lasted longer then I might have persevered but I wasn’t enjoying myself that much so just came here to find out why I was being so dense.
  13. I enjoyed this one, after a slow start it picked up nicely and left me with Astarte and Tar to check, although guessable. I thought CoD ‘Am fibbier’ was excellent, once I’d thought it might end in ‘A’ the penny dropped. Tough one for those who don’t use chip ‘n’ pin or know their Bronte though. Half an hour while eating pizza for lunch.
  14. Never on the setters wavelength…..which may be a good thing. Last one in “Eric”, which in fairness says more about me than the setter. Thanks for blogging this one.
    Dembones
  15. All the clues I described as ‘pants’ I’d heard of, so that wasn’t the problem. Am-fibbier is an invention too far (the comparative form of a non-existent word – it’s not in C, anyway), chip and pin is barely cryptic and being asked to derive Al from Bertie is like being asked to derive Liz from Bess. Nothing wrong with any of the epithets you cite; we’re not attacking the setter, but his or her clueing. Sometimes this site is accused of being too cosy and clubby, and honest (and moderate) expression of opinion helps keep it honest and edgy.
  16. 40 minutes, with a couple of breaks, and ten minutes at the end before desperately guessing CAESAR.
    Like some others I really didn’t like this crossword. The clues are mostly technically fair, as evidenced by the fact that I managed to finish it in spite of not knowing pretty much everything in it. However for me there’s far too much reliance on knowing stuff that you shouldn’t have to know: the names of fictional characters, villages in Yorkshire, the niceties of particular card games, and so on. A bit of this is fine (indeed welcome) but for me there’s just far too much of it in this crossword.
    Is ALSACE the name of a wine? Many wines are named directly after their region (Burgundy, Bordeaux) but I don’t think this is the case here.
    On a positive note I rather liked AMPHIBIA, although for ages I was looking for something meaning “I’m more truthful”.

    Edited at 2012-04-13 01:06 pm (UTC)

      1. I guess unlike Burgundy the most famous are named after the grape? I’m thinking Muscat, Reisling and Gewurtztraminer.
        1. I don’t know the region’s wines very well but I think that’s right, with the addition of names based on vineyards (e.g. Clos St Hune) or particular cuvées (e.g. Frédéric Emile). But they all also fall under the general AOC of Alsace.
  17. 27:29 .. I kinda liked it, being all for setter’s license (except when I’m not). AMPHIBIA may be a step too far, though I’ve chosen to see it as a Ken ‘Newt-Boy’ Livingstone reference, which makes it much more enjoyable. Either way, you have to say it’s a puzzle that gets people talking. And I notice it took Magoo well over the ten minute mark. That’s comforting.

    Last in: CAESAR

    COD: PAN-ISLAMIC, for nicely exploiting my Judeo-Christian assumptions

    1. Yes, I raised an eyebrow at this one too. Kudos to the setter for acknowledging that divisions exist in all major religions.
  18. DNF, resorted to aids for the last few after 2 hours. Ouch. As vinyl points out above, there’s a lot of UK-centered stuff here today that I did not recognize (WITH-PROFITS, CHIP AND PIN, HAWORTH, POVERTY TRAP). I didn’t know Rackstraw or PETER GRIMES either. I’d never seen NEPOTIC before, and I have often heard people use an alternate ‘nepotistic’, although that might be incorrect. Although it beat me about the head, I thought a lot of this puzzle very good, if difficult for the non-UKers. BORE, for instance, made me smile. Regards.
  19. I’m with linxit and sotira on this one – I liked it. If we’re going to indulge in the trivial pursuit of the crossword surely we can take ‘amphibia’ in our stride? A bit shaken by Al’s for Bertie’s, admittedly, but only because I stopped thinking and (it hurts to say it) put Assace. A lovely query from john from lancs as to the paradox of the worse and better liar. Yes, there have to be rules, but there has to be room for a witty inventiveness also. All in all I found this a refreshing outing, sharply testing at times and off the beaten track, but within the pale.
  20. Yes, I’m also in the Linxit and Sotira camp on this puzzle. I don’t think it deserves the blanket rubbishing its received in some quarters. Off the wall and idiosyncratic, maybe, but there’s a place for that. I agree that ALSACE was feeble/dodgy, but I have to admit that AMPHIBIA, which seems to have caused a lot of heartburn, made me smile once I’d cracked it, though the absence of a homophone indicator makes it a little unfair. Lots of good stuff elsewhere – e.g. CARLYLE, NEPOTIC, ABATIS, POVERTY TRAP, PAN-ISLAMIC and DHOW.
  21. I found this hard but I much enjoyed it. It reminded me of some of the earlier crosswords,from less formulaic times.don’t listen to the whingies, setter!
    (Jerry W on his phone)
  22. My,from the comments above it looks like crosswords at ten paces at dawn. I’m of the view, expressed elsewhere by vallaw, that a well set clue should allow you to solve it from wordplay even if you have never heard of the word. I’m unconvinced that 11ac and 22ac allow you to do that. There’s nothing wrong in learning a thing or two while solving but it’s a leap too far, IMHO, from “Bertie’s etc” to ALSACE, and AMPHIBIA is also stretching the friendship too far. Under the “learning a thing or two” heading, I thought the clueing of PETER GRIMES, POVERTY TRAP, ASTARTE and BACCARAT have, with luck, will help me with future crosswords. Roughly 2hrs 30mins and with aids. COD: 14d
  23. Didn’t have time for this this morning. I’ve only just finished it. (61 minutes). So a struggle. I knew all the literary and musical references but still didn’t enjoy it very much. I was amused at the contrast between our two seafaring types, Ralph Rackstraw and Peter Grimes, in the same crossword. Btw re Peter Grimes: my late mother told me that back in the 30s a journalist stayed with my coalminer grandfather and his family while he was writing something about the South Wales miners. She remembered his name was Montague Slater. The first time I saw “Peter Grimes” I was amazed to discover from the programme book that my grandparents’ guest was the librettist!
  24. 16:41 for me. A delight from beginning to end. Absolutely no complaints about any of the clues. Classic Times fare. My compliments to the setter.
    1. I’m glad that you and Andy and one or two others redressed the balance on this puzzle, Tony, as I don’t think it was a bad one at all, just a little eccentric and maybe 22ac was one step too far. That was the only clue I expressed my own harsh opinion on in the blog and then with the proviso that there may have been something more to it than I had understood, but apparently not so unless everybody else missed it too.

      I actually enjoyed solving it very much indeed as all the musical and literary stuff played to my strengths although I appreciate this is not to everyone’s taste.

    2. I’ve only just got around to reading this blog. I’m not one of you speed merchants and am usually pleased to finish in under an hour. I haven’t often contributed but I’m disappointed at the increasing number of posts suggesting that the poster’s lack of knowledge (of particular words or works of literature or deities or artists or place names or any other categories within the compass of a reasonably well educated adult) provides a sound basis for criticising a setter’s skill or capability.

      I share the views of Tony Sever and Linxit amongst others – if you want purely mechanical cryptics there are plenty available elsewhere. Bring on more like this!

      Ian McDonald
      +++

      1. Thanks for that, Ian. I wrote a piece in my blog some time ago (here) with much the same sentiment.

        However, I think the difference of opinion in this case may be between the pure Ximeneans and those who take a more liberal approach. I was going to devote last Sunday’s blog entry to the topic, but unfortunately other things got in the way so I’ve delayed it until next Sunday.

  25. Having given up on this with 4 unfinished, it was very refreshing to find that my betters in the crossword solving field e.g. Dorset Jimbo found it less than up to scratch.
    We found it a truly miserable puzzle with too many clues that were difficult without all the crossing letters and extremely difficult with them.
    I have hesitated to complain recently, as others have found the crossword satisfactory, but this not a good puzzle.
    Mike and Fay
  26. How does 27 across [OUR?] work?

    If it’s “not for them” it’s OURS?

    If it’s “not for them” it’s for US?

    1. I reckon if the time is not for them, it’s not their time, it’s our time. Works well enough.
  27. OK, so some of the clues were weak but others were just the sort I enjoy eg 3,4,5 – not tough but the sort that you just need to think about a little (the ones that mark us out from the machines in a Turing test, hopefully)
    I loved the hand-smacks-head moment of AMPHIBIA – it’s why I do them
    And yes, it’s taken me till now, with many long breaks of course but aside from HOWARTH (must stop mis-spelling that), all correct in, shall we say, 4h

    JB

    1. This blog keeps attracting spam which I am tired of deleting as it arrives so I have now locked the discussion.

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