Times 24866

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
This took me 40 minutes but I think I can knock off 5 of those for being on blog duty and feeling the need to double-check everything before committing to paper. Certainly it felt like the easiest puzzle for a while with nothing obscure and only one unknown word (at 23dn). It’s a short blog because there’s really not a lot to say. I loved 7dn followed closely by 11dn and 21dn. Live Journal has been playing up since  yesterday evening, taking about 5 minutes to move between pages so I hope it won’t prevent contributors getting here today.

* = anagram

Across
1 PER,1,PAThETIC
7 CRU – The vineyard is hidden and reversed inside ‘pURChasers’
9 Deliberately omitted
10 BAN,FF – It’s in Aberdeenshire
11 sOUTh,LINE
12 BALLIOL – BALL + OrIeL*
13 TrYING
15 IMPORT,UNE
17 FIrST FrIGHT
19 DELHI – LED reversed + HaitI
20 IN(riskS)URED
22 wING,tO,wING
24 THE,MEt – A reference to The Metropolitan Opera House in New York
25 ASTRONOMY – Cryptic definition
27 cRATe
28 TREACHEROUS – (Our cheaters)*
 
Down
1 P,EG – Pegs are what one turns to tighten the strings on musical instruments, piano, violin etc.
2 R,OAST – An oast is a kiln for drying hops
3 PRIm,MING
4 T(ETHER)IN,G
5 Deliberately omited
6 COBBLER – There’s a saying ” A cobbler should stick to his last” meaning keep one’s opinions to oneself on subjects one knows nothing about. A cobbler can be a cold drink made with wine or other alcohol and fruit juice.
7 CON,TINU,A,L – UNIT reversed + A inside CONservative and Liberal. If this puzzle is reprinted 50 years from now I wonder if anyone will understand how appropriate this clue was at the time of first publication.
8 UNF,ALTERING – FUN + anagrind
11 OUT OF KILT,ER – Made me laugh, anyway!
14 IN(SIS)TENT
16 PA,TRIO,TI,C – Per Annum + IT reversed around TRIO, then C for the suit in cards.
18 FORFEIT – (Offer it)*
19 DOG,ROSE
21 Departs,RAKE – A reference to Plymouth Hoe where Sir Francis Drake was said to be playing bowls when he heard news of the approach of the Spanish Armada.
23 IR(OK)On – I didn’t know this tree but it was easy from checking letters and wordplay.
26 YES – Anagram of “easy” minus its A

47 comments on “Times 24866”

  1. Don’t have my copy with me as I write. But it took 20-something minutes. A most enjoyable puzzle I thought. I liked the conceit of UNF(altering) when I eventually saw it was an anagind-in-answer type. And, with Jackkt, got a laff out of the naked Scot. I had visions of Spike Milligan for some reason.
  2. 23’30”. I only realized on reading the blog that I’d never worked out 11ac; and I was totally clueless about 21d. (Hoe user?) As MartinP notes on the club forum, 25ac could also be ‘astrology’, and I can’t think of a way to exclude it. And of course, Earth, being a planet, is in fact of interest to astronomy; and observatories, for instance, tend to be on Earth. But it was a lovely puzzle, rather gentle for a Friday.
  3. OK never occurred to me for very good. I went for “so” as in “just so” – thus ISORO. Otherwise my fastest solve for a while with many of the definitions being a bit too helpful for this to be entirely satisfying. No brainer COD despite the amusing naked Scotsman.
  4. 55 minutes, finishing with TREACHEROUS after I finally twigged the tree, where the need to derive OK from ‘very good’ held me up. Made life hard for myself in the bottom half by writing in ‘motet’ (for THEME) and ‘geologist’ (for ASTRONOMY). Fortunately, the cocktail was easily gettable from the wordplay, while UNFALTERING provided a penny-drop moment of the type where you’re not actually sure that the penny has dropped.

    Quirky and enjoyable offering.

  5. Nice finish to the week, about 50 minutes all up. I suppose ASTROLOGY could be an alternative at 25ac, but I’d hesitate to dignify it as a “subject”.
  6. Easy end to an easy week. 15 minutes with no problems. I couldn’t take astrology seriously in any context so it never occurred to me as a potential solution. I thought 7D CONTINUAL excellent.

    This Sunday the Times has a crossword tribute to Mike Laws that will involve more than one puzzle. Please have a go if, like many of us, Mike provided you with many hours of top class solving over the years.

  7. 14 minutes which was very much 7’s clue, including no less than three satisfying &lits (5,28, and, in my opinion, 1d). On ASTRONOMY/ASTROLOGY, the only loose-ish clue in the batch, I might venture that the latter is very much concerned with events on earth as interpreted by the heavens, the former in the heavens per se, so has to be the correct entry. Plus the latter is bunk.
    A lot of these clues would have walked into CoD yesterday; today, mine goes to the delicious gegs-ian UNFALTERING.
    1. Astrology bunk? Well, of course it’s bunk. But astronomy includes the earth in its bailiwick even more directly than astrology, I’d think (its orbit, the possibility of an asteroid colliding with it, …). Not take astrology seriously? Of course not. I don’t take homeopathy or acupuncture or postmodernism seriously either, but I might accept ‘homeopathy’, ‘acupuncture’, or ‘postmodernism’ seriously as solutions in a crossword puzzle. If the clue had read ‘… this science’ instead of ‘…this subject’, then ‘astrology’ would have been out of the question (of course, the clue would have been even more of a giveaway); but for better or worse (worse), astrology is a possible subject. I don’t know why I’m being disputatious about this–just waiting for the Ambien to take effect–if ‘astrology’ had been the ‘correct’ answer I would have screamed bloody murder. But I do think it’s not a good clue if there are two possible answers.
      I’d give CODs to 15 (wonderfully misleading surface) & 17ac as well as 8d.
      1. Yes, unfortunately ‘logos’ is usually translated as study and dictionaries such as Chambers refers to astrology as ‘the study of celestial hocus-pocus’ (from memory, so may not be spot on).

        I wonder if anyone here actually wrote it in.

        1. Yep, someone did.
          As I said I don’t think this clue is particularly ambiguous. ASTRONOMY is concerned with the earth of course, but not with what happens ON earth. ASTROLOGY is intrinsically interested in what happens on earth. If (unlike me) you think about it you should pick the right one.
    2. Then again, Chambers also gives an antique definition of astrology as “practical astronomy”.
  8. Lovely puzzle today. Didn’t know iroko but gettable from the cryptic. 10:25 so pretty pleased with that. Regards to all.
  9. All correct without aids in half an hour. Last two in were importune and patriotic. Some lovely clues today I thought, continual and unf-altering being the pick of a good bunch. I’m more familiar with the Banff in Canada than the one in Scotland and didn’t know that cobbler was a drink. Iroko from wordplay.

    Pleased to see a chemistry reference (t-ether-ing) – takes me back to my student days in the labs.

  10. 22 minutes. Mostly it was very quick but I got held up in the NE for reasons I can’t now understand. However I fell carelessly into the ASTROLOGY trap. For the reasons cited above (it’s interested in earth and it’s not a subject) I don’t think this is really an ambiguous clue. I just didn’t think about it enough. Of course the whole clue works as quite a good definition of ASTROLOGY but it’s not cryptic!
    My kitchen worktops are made of IROKO so no problems there. The Scottish BANFF and alcoholic COBBLER were today’s unknowns.
    I liked UNFALTERING: it took me a few minutes even after I’d spotted the device. Also ONGOING: the sort of clue that often does for me.
  11. I see the first bit of my entry above makes no sense, because it should read “8’s clue” not 7’s. Some days I shouldn’t be let near a keyboard.
  12. Relatively gentle 30 minutes or so. Slowed by initially going for STAG[e] F[r]IGHT; (probably spuriously) rejected ‘astrology’ as not a ‘subject’. COD to UNFALTERING for its wit and brevity.
  13. 30:14, but the last 8 were spent staring at I-O-O, considering both ISORO and IROKO, but neither SO nor OK seemed to mean ‘very good’. Eventually resorted to aids to find the right one which was a shame. I’m still not convinced that OK and ‘very good’ are in any way synonymous, and the word is very obscure, so I see it as a poor clue.

    The rest of it was fine. It was quite nice to be able to rattle through one for a change. The first time I’ve been able to in over a week.

    COD to UNFALTERED – I do like it when the wordplay can be found in the solution.

    1. Had similar concerns about “OK” and “very good”, Dave. But then thought of responding to a request with “very good, sir”, indicating compliance, or “OK”.
      Whaddayareckon?
      1. Yes, I was assuming that was the usage that was being referred to, but I remain unconvinced that they’re interchangeable in any set of circumstances. One is very formal, while the other is entirely informal.

        Incidentally, I’m also in the camp that considers ASTROLOGY a perfectly acceptable solution to 25. Both are indisputably subjects that involve studying the heavens, and that is enough to satisfy the requirements of the clue. I considered it as I was solving, but fortunately picked the correct one.

        1. Yeah, my earlier comment that I’d hesitate to dignify astrology as a “subject” may have conveyed the wrong emphasis. I wasn’t referring to the validity of ASTROLOGY as a solution, just expressing my distaste for unscientific bunkum!
          1. I should hastily add that I share your disdain. I’m certainly not attempting to justify astrology as a subject worthy of consideration in anything other than a crossword!
        2. In the SOED, the definition for OK is:

          “Expr. (or, interrog., seeking) assent, acquiescence, or approval”

          whereas very good is defined as:

          “expr. assent, approval, or acquiescence.”

          so you’d have to say that’s about as identical as you can get.

          1. Then I guess I must admit its acceptability. I still don’t have to like it though!
    2. OK seems, er, OK to me if you think of “very good” as synonymous with “very well”.
      I can accept that the word itself is a bit obscure because I hadn’t heard of it myself until sweet-talked into buying it by a kitchen person last year!
      1. No, I still don’t buy it, I’m afraid. I’ll admit that ‘very well’ could be considered synonymous with both ‘OK’ and ‘very good’, but I don’t think that makes them synonymous with each other. It just means that ‘very well’ has a wider range of possible usage than either of its synonyms.
  14. I found this one a struggle – COBBLER from checking letters alone BALLIOL from wordplay. CONTINUAL from definition.
  15. I actually put in Cosmology before I had the ‘t’ from patriotic (drake was last in) . Cosmology is to Astronomy what Theoretical Physics is to plumbing (sorry Engineering – old snobberies die hard ;-)). Astrology never even occured to me.

    I got ingoing from the checkers and definition, but do not really understand the mechanics of it. Where is the indicator to omit WTW? Could someone explain please? Thanks.

    AK

    1. The words WING TO WING are “never to be introduced”. So remove their “introductory” letters and you’re left with ING O ING.
  16. A very comfortable 18 minutes, but “Computer said ‘No'” – I’d forgotten to solve 27a. I really do try to check what I’ve done but it looks like my move to the QA department might be on hold.

    It took ages to see UNFALTERING, and to convince myself that there was a BANFF that wasn’t in Canada.

    1. Banff is a particularly beautiful spot that produced my wife’s Doric ancestors. Situated on a salmon river, the Deveron, opposite the town of Macduff it looks out across firth to the Black Isle. The golf course is excellent if rather windy. For folks across the pond it boasts a museum created by Andrew Carnegie.
      1. Your description makes me want to visit, jimbo. Even the names are poetry.
  17. An enjoyable 44 minutes. Needed the blog for the Hoe/Drake link and for the parsing of PATRIOTIC which I couldn’t work out at all.
  18. Nice straightforward end to the week…no unknowns, and no difficult wordplay.

    Cod to OUTLINE – took me ages to work out the “OUT” bit!

    Re ASTRONOMY: I never thought of the alternative, but if I had, then it would probably have gone in unchallenged!

    Have a good weekend, everyone, and see y’all next week. J

  19. I’ve just read 36 comments but according to LJ there are just 3! Anyway, back to the puzzle: Nothing too outlandish, although I didn’t exactly whizz through it. Finished in 31 minutes with no major hold-ups. COD UNFALTERING for a wonderful eureka moment.
  20. I was held up by this, but got through in about 40 minutes. I didn’t know the ‘hoe user’, BANFF in Scotland, the COBBLER drink, or IROKO. Last entries were the BANFF/UNFALTERING pair, and my COD certainly goes to the latter, followed by 1A. I was afraid ‘hoe user’ might have some less than wholesome meaning, so I’m happy to see the historical reference. Nice puzzle, other than the confusion perhaps brought about by ASTRONOMY/ASTROLOGY. Regards to everyone.
  21. Lindylou1 says:
    “it” (reversed) doesn’t appear to be “touring” trio. Am I missing something?
  22. Excellent puzzle. Excellent blog which explained 16 and 21 down. Would be grateful for explanation of what you mean by ANAGRIND at 8 down.
    Mike and Fay
    1. I thought this was covered in About This Blog (link at very top of this page) but I can’t find it.

      As far as I know “anagrind” and “anagrist” are words made-up for use in this forum. If you think of the expression “adding grist to the mill” you’ll get the idea.

      Anagrist = the letters to be used in forming an anagram.

      Anagrind = the word or phrase in the clue that instructs the solver to form an anagram.

      For example in 18ac above “offer it” is the anagrist and “at fault” is the anagrind.

      8dn is an odd one because the angrist “unf” and the anagrind “altering” are in the answer rather than in the clue.

  23. 7:47 for me – but I’d expect the fast brigade to be significantly faster. Perhaps tomorrow’s is going to be a stinker! A nice puzzle, though.
  24. I started the Times crossword as my New Year’s resolution last year. I’ve found this site’s contributors to be a fantastic source of learning, and completed about a dozen Times cryptics from the two or three per week that I’ve attempted since January 2010. But #24866 is the first that I’ve done without looking up or checking a single answer (‘cheating’, my wife calls it). Who knows – in another year or two perhaps I’ll be timing myself instead of just hoping to finish!
    Thanks for all the help – there must be plenty like me who are learning from you.
    1. Well done, anon! Have you thought of signing up to Live Journal and becoming less anon? It needn’t cost you anything.

      On the subject of “cheating”. Views on this vary but I don’t think even the strictest opinion would call it cheating to check answers once you have completed the grid. As one of the slower solvers in this community I would resort to looking things up for an incomplete grid once and hour had passed and there had been no recent progress.

      Stick with it, and please keep in touch.

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