Times 24788 – Another quick start and slow finish

52 comments on “Times 24788 – Another quick start and slow finish”

1. ….only I probably spent even longer on those last four, about 65 minutes total. I also thought for a long time that the goddess would be ‘Venus’.

   A ‘drill’ is a kind of monkey, or so I supposed. Subsequent research has proven that theory correct.

2. I too was lulled into thinking monkey = tool. But, as Vinyl notes, a drill is an animal: Mandrillus leucophaeus, according to the Wik.

   46 minutes and by no means easy; but perhaps the most satisfying of the week, especially for those of us who like complex operations on sophisticated fodder and then get seriously held up by simpler mechanisms: 21dn and 27ac (cf Dave’s situation).

   I’m giving my COD to 2dn (NIECE): a word oft encountered; but clued here in a non-obvious way.

3. I’m pretty sure we’ve had a similar clue for LEARN very recently, so that didn’t cause a problem. But 21 and 27 were my last in as well, mainly because I was trying to squeeze a ram into 28.

   Overall verdict: very enjoyable, with some clever concealments (eg championship and stock). Just under an hour, all up, plus several minutes more to understand why it was NOEL.

4. 1′ 49″ on club timer, but I can round it down to a speedy (!) hour and a half after making allowances for phone calls.

   Found this tricky, not least because I couldn’t get going in the NW for some reason (WISCONSIN, mainly). Like Dave, I also struggled with 4 (my last in and COD) and 8. Today the blogger proves his value by filling me in on the rationales behind 10, 18, 19 and 22. Congratulations to both him and the setter.

   1. Do you think the Wisconsin clue is some kind of political commentary? That’s why I put it in almost at once.
      1. Do enlighten us – what are you referring to?
         1. Might have something to do with this to do.
            1. Yes, it has been on the front page of every newspaper in the US for the past month. People are getting tired of it, but it enabled me to easily solve the clue.
      2. Ditto on Wisconsin!
5. TEG was unfamiliar, so needed assistance to get STRATEGY, which allowed me to get INTACT. Otherwise all correct within an hour, which is now my (rarely-achieved) target.
   1. The thing about this blog is, that when something like this comes up, we go over all the sheep words that are usually used.

      That is probably why newbies and low intermediates advance their skills rapidly when they start reading it.

      1. Low intermediate. Ouch. I know the description is accurate, but somehow I just hear it as “borderline defective”. Must. Try. Harder.
         1. It is more like the level from which it is possible to make the most rapid improvement. You understand the principles and the various types of Ximenean clues, so you just need a quick fill-in on the most commonly-used tricks. After reading us for a couple of months, you should be able to complete the easy puzzles in about 30 minutes, and at least make a stab at the more difficult ones.

            The really hard part, which I have never been able to do, is to speed up the process. I think the really fast solvers must have started young. Of course, as an American, a lot of the knowledge such as cricket and football is not natural to me, so I have to mull it over.

6. 53 minutes, maybe 5 of which were spent with eyes closed, fighting off sleep. I flagged 9 or 10 clues to come back to to figure out why, if I was right, I was right; but I managed to figure them all out in the end. CODs to 22ac and 17, at least, but in fact I thought there were lots of good clues, difficult in the right way. I had thought of ESTONIA, but couldn’t come up with a goddess, so gave it a pass until much later. And I had, at various times, ‘ton’, ‘gushing’, and ‘ela’ (ale), but didn’t take the time to try to integrate them. Like Dave, I stalled at ‘ram’ and ‘tup’, until the checkers brought ‘teg’ back. ‘mandrill’ is an old chestnut in these puzzles, but I don’t think I’ve ever come across ‘drill’ here, or anywhere.
7. Anonymous? Moi?
8. 55 minutes. Slow but very steady progress throughout. I never felt stuck or tempted to resort to aids. Definitely the most testing of the week. I liked NOEL and ALPHABETIC in particular.
9. Strewth. Did all right unitl the end when because I had extinct (very lost)for Estonia was stuck with
   l-t-n and didn’t fancy Latin or Luton. So a pathetic letin for some kind of pick, that takes you home, and two wrong in 34 minutes. Ouch. Anyhow this was more like the jab at the start of the day that I need to wake up.
10. This one seemed hard but didn’t actually take all that long. I swear I have seen “steeplechaser” clued very recently, and didn’t we have Estonia last weekend? I also vaguely remember drill, these continual deja vues are starting to haunt me.. :-O
11. 20 minutes , 5 for the West and 15 for the East. It is deja vu all over again, isn’t it? NOEL and NIECE turned up recently too. Still, what do you expect with a language that’s limited to 616,500 words.
    I’d forgotten (man)drill, so assumed the existence of the monkey drill (I bet they have one on oil rigs). otherwise a decent set of clues, with some of the definitions (ESPOUSAL, HACKNEYED) more devious than the wordplay.
    CoD to WINTRY for simplicity.
12. Absolutely loved this. I guess the pleasure comes from having to think a bit more laterally than usual for the definitions. So, COD contenders:
    espousal = championship; earn = take home; stock = hackneyed; strategy = approach; diagnosis = identification.
    Guesses for TEG = sheep and DRILL from mandrill. Only 3 after 20 minutes so very happy to finish in about 90. Thank you setter.
13. Felt like a bit of a joyless slog with too many of those rather leaden-footed clues that read like flat-pack assembly instructions (“Put the end of this word inside that word and then round the start of another word backwards”). 50 minutes.
14. Just over 11 minutes for this, so I must have been on the setter’s wavelength. I didn’t know TEG, but DRILL was lurking in memory for some reason. It’s the sort of thing I’d only know from this puzzle.
    Last in and COD to NOEL: it’s nice when the penny drops like that.
15. I enjoyed this puzzle and thought it the best of the week. 25 minutes of sustained effort unravelling some good wordplay and interesting definitions. Some very economical but clever clues as in 1A WINTRY. Thank you setter.
16. Very nicely done, that setter. Cracking clues throughout. COD to REBUTTAL, my last in.
17. I know what a ‘teg’ is but calling it to mind faced with superficially more attractive three letter options (ewe, ram, tup) was another matter; and ‘stray’ was not my first thought for ‘chance’. Hence took as long to get STRATEGY as rest of puzzle put together. Good, enjoyable challenge which, with perseverance, I always thought I would complete. Thanks for the blog, Dave, and unravelling the full wordplay, notably 20ac.
18. Like Barry (again, sorry!) I absolutely loved this puzzle, despite not managing to finish it: didn’t get the betes noires: 21/27, nor did I get SHERBET, but that was because I had carelessly misspelt 1dn (N for S – doh!). Same story as everone regarding EWE, RAM, TUP, and now I have a fourth 3 letter word for ‘sheep’ in my vocab. CoD: ALPHABETIC, but there were plenty to choose from.

    As a relative newbie, I would like to reiterate the words of Mr Lawson yesterday, and add my appreciation for this blog – a fantastic resource for anyone attempting to crack the venerable Times xword. I have learnt so much from our setters/bloggers/contributors, and continue to do so on a daily basis. When you get to a certain age, you can sometimes forget how rewarding learning a new skill can be!

    Thanks to all, and hope you all have a great weekend! J

    1. No need to apologise Janie. So rarely hear the words Like and Barry juxtaposed these days.
19. 24 minutes dead, a nice melange of well-disguised definitions and interesting wordplay so I agree with others that this was the pick of the week’s puzzles.

    The NE corner taxed me the most with the defs for espousal and learn hard to spot and the goddess, not having trainers or planets named after her, being unfamiliar.

    1. But she is the smoker’s friend! Along with Lucifer of course.
20. 36:37 .. a bit of a beast, and starting it at midnight wasn’t such a great idea. I really struggled, but did enjoy the fight.

    About 10 minutes at the end to justify INTACT and arrive at ESPOUSAL.

    Several COD candidates, but I’m with Jimbo in admiring the economy of WINTRY.

    p.s. well done, Tony Sever, on spotting what was apparently a ‘nina’ in yesterday’s puzzle.

    1. Wot is? ‘Fraid I’m not familiar with that term.
       1. A Nina is a hidden message in a puzzle. I’d never heard of them until I started coming here. Quite rare (it’s thought) in Times puzzles, though I’m sure a few have slipped through forever unnoticed, much to the private amusement of the setters concerned.

          Some explanation here: http://www.crosswordunclued.com/2009/10/what-is-nina.html

          Some examples from The Times blogged here: http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=times_xwd_times&keyword=Themes%20and%20Ninas&filter=all

          I don’t know if yesterday’s is confirmed, but Tony’s suggestion is pretty convincing (see his comment now on page 2 of yesterday’s comments).

          1. Thank you for this – I was clueless on the subject until now. Do you know if it is named after the NY theatrical cartoonist Al Hirschfeld who used to hide his daughter’s name (Nina) in all his cartoons?
             1. Yes it is.
          2. Thank you, sotira, in your guise as a wabbit. This blog is a constant source of wonder. I have been laughing since yesterday at Stephen Fry’s definition of “countryside” which I gleaned from a link to “The Uxbridge Dictionary of English” contained in a post by John_from_Lancs; and now my knowledge of crosswords has been enhanced.
21. Thank you, Dave Perry for explaining 19ac. I got it right but couldn’t see why. Much amused also at your reference to Vesta curries! Ah sweet (or should that be spicy?) memories! Am feeling virtuous for having completed it in around 1hr 45mins and without aids. COD for me was 28ac, STOLID. Clever use of “not soft”. Glad to see others had the same issue with sheep.
22. A bit of a slow old slog, finished with a fair amount of guesswork. I wasn’t on the setter’s wavelength today.
    Louise
23. Would also add my appreciation for the blog. I always come here to find out the explanation for any answers I cannot explaim. In my view it is the only way to improve when it comes to cryptic crosswords.
    Louise
24. My father, now in his ninetieth year, regularly complains to the butcher about the quality of the meat, much to the embarrassment of my mother. “That ain’t a leg o’ lamb,” he grumbles, “that’s TEG, that is.” He’s probably right, no-one sells mutton these days; but it does mean that I’m very familiar with this word for a sheep.

    The puzzle? 39 minutes with lots of interruptions. NOEL was rather neat, wasn’t it?

    Thanks to Dave for the blog and the amusing reminder of Vesta curries, our idea of exotic cuisine in 1960s Britain.

25. Vesta curry (or the Chow Mein with the crispy noodles!) probably washed down with a bottle of Liebfraumilch or Mateus Rose… anyway back to today. 13 minutes online with last two or three trying to look for an alternative to the (now) obvious ESPOUSAL.
    Nice puzzle to end the week – Wis-con-sin makes me think of Perry Como’s ‘Delaware’… and that’s pre Vesta!
26. Same story as many others here, sailing along until stalled by ESPOUSAL, STRATEGY and INTACT. I didn’t know of the ‘teg’, and if I’ve seen it here before, well, I forgot it. I also hadn’t understood STOLID until coming here, so thanks to Dave for that. My COD to SENTIMENT for the plausible surface. WINTRY and the NOEL device are very good as well. Thanks setter. A very good puzzle to end the week. Regards to all.
27. sorry to be thick, but could someone please explain 4ac? i got the answer from the definition and crossing letters, but still can’t see the wordplay. why only the ‘o’ from ‘over’; and where is “our team in decline”?

    i would like to add my appreciation to that expressed earlier by saying how useful i have found this blog. having started only about three months ago, i am chuffed to be able to finish a crossword such as this, albeit with aids and some guesswork.

    ak

    1. Hi there ak. The parsing, as Dave explains above in crosswordese shorthand, is, yes, only the ‘O’ from ‘over’, plus US (our team), inside LAPSE (decline), with LAPSE going backwards (on reflection). Many words are used as stand-ins for the use of their first letter only, notably ‘son’ as ‘S’, the compass directions, etc. I think I’ve seen ‘over’ as a signal to use only ‘O’ before, but not a lot. But, my memory’s not that great. Here, sorry to say, the reason I know it was just ‘O’ is because that’s the only thing that works. ‘Over’ usually means something far different, as a direction to reverse words/letters, or place them above other things in a down clue, or put them around or ‘over’ other words/letters. Hope that helps. Regards.
       1. Just to add, I think the O for ‘Over’ is the cricket scorer’s shorthand.
          1. Thanks Sotira, that’s not something I would know!
          2. That’s what I assumed, just as you would see abbreviations in a baseball box score.
    2. thanks everyone. i hadn’t seen o for over before and just could not see how US (ie USA) could be “our team” in a british newspaper! my coefficient of density had obviously spiked up last night! thanks again.

       ak

28. I really enjoyed this. Completed in bed this morning with a nice cup of tea. Struggled a bit with the right hand side but managed to finish in 39 minutes. Some very satisfying clueing and lots of eureka moments. I especially liked 1a and 19a which managed to be both simple and cunning at the same time.
29. Seemed quite hard today so fairly pleased with 30m 49s. Still not sure about ‘stolid’?
30. Stupid me. Just realised! Should have consulted the excellent blog.
31. 11:25 for me. I felt I should have been faster but never really found the setter’s wavelength – perhaps at least partly because I was expecting a toughie. Like vinyl1 I lost time assuming that the goddess at 11ac was going to be Venus.

    On the subject of Ninas, there’s more about them in my old RTC FAQ. Sadly Race the Clock is no more, having been superseded by the Times Crossword Club’s home-brew competition, but this too is based on the T2 Concise puzzle (compiled for the last several years by John Grimshaw) and I assume there’s still a daily competition (now adjudicated by Heyesey) to spot the Nina (if there is one).

32. Well, it’s now Saturday afternoon (and I’ve just finished the puzzle), but I will still contribute to the blog because I am pleased to see I’m not the only one who took ages to finish (after a reasonable start). With one complete guess (DROSS) everything turned out to be right (the solution now being online), but there were many bits of the wordplay I didn’t entirely understand. My last in were STRATEGY (without recognizing the sheep) and DROSS last night, and ESPOUSAL, ESTONIA and LEARN in that order this morning. I was sure the goddess would be VENUS losing the V and couldn’t think of a land to fit, and ESTONIA didn’t come to mind until I realised there might be other goddesses in the pantheon. The most audacious clue was certainly for NOEL, so it’s my COD.

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