Times 24,516 Of Tanners and Knuckle Sanwiches

Solving time 25 minutes

A far better puzzle than recent offerings with some testing wordplay. I found the eastern half easier than the western and solved in a circle starting in the NE and finishing in the NW. CINEASTE and SPELEOLOGIST may not be everyday words for some but I suspect FOURPENNY ONE is going to cause some head scratching. It’s a phrase I haven’t heard for years but was common currency in my father’s generation. Clued as it is by reference to old currency makes it I suspect quite difficult.

Across
1 CINEASTE – C(IN-EAST)E; CE=Church of England; IN EAST=a piece of their mythology; a movie buff;
5 BHAJIS – B-HAJIS; B=British; HAJIS=people who have completed a Hadj; fried onions in Delhi;
9 WHEATEAR – W(HEAT)EAR; round=HEAT (as in running races); WEAR=river of Durham; a songbird;
10 CRATER – CRATE-R; an old car is a CRATE; Barringer Meteor perhaps;
12 SPELEOLOGIST – (pigs let loose)*; one who studies holes in the ground rather than good wines;
15 AMASS – tea=Assam then move “am”=morning to give AMASS;
16 LARCENOUS – (a cruel son)*;
18 BAMBOOZLE – BAMBOO-Z-L(ay)-E(ggs); gull=fool;
19 BREVE – B(REV)E; empty bottle=B(ottl)E; old musical notation;
20 HELD,TO,RANSOM – (the old Romans)*; what minority parties do in coalitions!;
24 NOT,BAD – NO-TBA-D; number=NO; yet to be given out=TBA(to be advised); 500=D(Roman notation);
25 WORD,GAME – promise=WORD; plucky=GAME; “hangman” is a word game useful for wiling away boring lectures;
26 SUSSED – historic county=Sussex then replace “x” by “d=Duke”;
27 DEFRAYAL – DE(FRAY)AL;
 
Down
1 COWL – COW-L; Jersey=breed of COW;
2 NEED – sounds like “knead”=work;
3 ANTIPASTO – A-N-TIP-AS-TO; hors d’oeuvre in Sorrento;
4 TRAILBLAZERS – TRAIL-BLAZERS; lag behind=TRAIL; “pioneers get scalped” – old management maxim;
6 HARPO – HARPO(on); reference harp-playing Arthur “Harpo” Marx 1888-1964, one of the nicer show business people who chose not to speak in his films;
7 JETTISONED – JET-(is noted)*;
8 STRATHSPEY – YEP-SH-TARTS all reversed; a dance like a reel but slower from the Highlands region of Scotland;
11 FOURPENNY,ONE – Old Bob=old shilling=12 old pence=3 sets of fourpence; very old slang for a haymaker;
13 LAMB,SHANKS – Elia=(Charles)LAMB; Henry=Hank; a cut of meat=fare;
14 CARMELITES – CAR(M-ELITE)S; M=van of “moisturising”; cream=ELITE; order of monks and nuns;
17 EMBROIDER – (bride more)*;
21 deliberately omitted, ask if you can’t tease out the solution;
22 NAVY – NA(v)VY; “navvy” is slang for a labourer;
23 FELL – two meanings; 1=reference nursery rhyme Jack and Jill 2=a hill;

35 comments on “Times 24,516 Of Tanners and Knuckle Sanwiches”

  1. Needed a challenge after yesterday I suppose, and this provided. Had to cheat to get SPELEOLOGIST and STRATHSPEY (not helped by having BHAJEE for a while). Last in NAVY which would get my COD but for the marvellous FOURPENNY ONE and HARPO. Tough for me but satisfying and enjoyable.
    1. Hello Barry. How do you think you would have fared say a year ago? I think some of this may defeat new solvers and a commentary from you could be helpful.
      1. A timely question as May marks my first anniversary with cryptics. Basic tricks picked up in first 3 months using this invaluable site. More advanced tricks slowly coming eg. understanding AMASS from today would have been beyond me even 3 months ago, missing exclamation marks eg My etc. and am now thinking more laterally with “literals”. Despite knowing the tricks I am still too easily deceived. My vocabulary is good by normal standards but not when compared to people on this site. My cruciverbal vocabulary is increasing however eg. ETUI, NOH etc. Being an autodidact as opposed to having had any sort of education worthy of the name is, and will remain, a disadvantage, although from what I gather not so much as it once was. In today’s puzzle I only managed 3 on first run through, LAMB SHANKS, BREVE and SUSSED. I saw all the anagrams but solving them was tough including a cheat for the caveman. Six months ago I would have given up fairly soon with this one but have learned to keep plugging away even when an answer eludes, eg today I had ?A?Y to finish and I knew I was looking for a colour but it still took an age to see NAVY, but somehow I knew I would get there eventually. As I have said before cryptics are great for triers. My times for the Times don’t bother me much as I like to relax over the crossword in the morning but as a progress indicator I confess I don’t seem to be getting any faster (I’ve never been too quick on the uptake). A better indicator is my weekly visit to my Mum who likes to read the Telegraph cryptics to me which I find I can usually solve without sight of grid or checkers, often before she has completed reading the clue. She is only now beginning to believe that I don’t take a sneaky look beforehand. You are right that doing barred grids would help just as Peter is right that doing “quick” crosswords would help – just thinking of synonyms is a problem. The problem for newcomers is that just doing the main puzzle is time consuming if you have any kind of life. (I have weaned myself off Jumbos for this reason although I confess to a relapse and doing this week’s while watching IPL cricket with the mute button on). The imponderable now is whether I will improve at a rate quicker than the grey cells retreat.
        Sorry to ramble but this is an enthusiasm that has come to me late much to my surprise, and something which gives huge pleasure for all that this site is daily reminder that I am not as smart as I thought.
        1. Thanks for taking the time to do that Barry. I’m sure it will be encouraging to new solvers.
          1. Having just subscribed to the Times XWD some 6 weeks ago, Barry’s words are very encouraging. Similar to Barry, but likely at a lower level than he is at, I struggle with vocabulary which I considered was pretty good until I came across the Times XWD and this site. I have solved cryptics off and on but mostly on Indian newspapers – they seem easier to tackle. Also, the British references are a slight challenge though I am learning all the time. But encouraging comments here from all commenters and contributors here sure provide me with the needed “trier muscle” and plug away..Sometimes I do get to solve almost all save for 3 or 4 but that is after 3 hours + of hand to hand combat that I do relish.. On the recent 2010 championship puzzle I did get almost all except about 3 which I consider to be progress for me and a lot of it would be thanks to this site and its contributors.. Thank you
        2. After less than a year, speed shouldn’t really be any concern – how often you finish and how much “cheating” was required is a much better progress indicator. In my early days of solving, I’d be chipping away at puzzles for ages, with looks on morning and evening commutes and probably the lunchtime between.
  2. 15 minutes today (same as yesterday) with the slowest entries in the SE corner: I couldn’t get “worker” and “puce” out of my mind for 22d, which didn’t help, and in 25a, hangmen have turned up recently to be Ketch and co. Toyed with BOLD FACE for quite a while, but that didn’t work.
    FOURPENNY ONE, my CoD, is almost certainly one for the silver solvers. I’m sure I remember being “fetched” one in my youth
  3. 36 minutes, with the bulk spent in the bottom right corner. (Heedful there of Jimbo’s advice about 4-letter answers and the need to get both crossers before rushing to conclusions.) And agreed, this is a notch or two above a few of the recent offerings.
  4. A good discriminator, this puzzle – the good solvers will do well, those like me not so well. After an hour and a bit, and a third to go, cheated on SPELEOLOGIST to try and kick-start the solve, only to founder on the rock that was the NW corner: WHEATEAR (which I should have got, having guessed WEAR), CINEASTE (which I’d not heard of, though it’s gettable, I suppose – “mythology” – ha!) and, less forgivably, NEED all baffling me. Also unable to get STRATHSPEY, appropriately enough in the NE corner.

    Note to Jim: 9ac should be WHEATEAR (8 letters)

  5. All but four clues solved in 25 minutes today but I then came unstuck in the SE corner where I took a further 5 minutes to get NAVY, FELL and DEFRAYAL and another 10 to work out WORD GAME. I made the mistake of thinking “plucky” might be BOLD which led me down the wrong path for far too long.

    I didn’t know the cave specialist at 12ac or the pilgrim at 5ac but there were alternative routes to each so I wrote in the answers with confidence.

  6. 11:46 for this one – good start with both CINEASTE and BHAJIS seen on first look, but slowed down and ended with 9A after clearing up the SE corner with 27 (from DEAL), 22 and 25, pausing to eliminate BOLD GAME and GOOD GAME after initially interpreting “hangman, for example” as just GAME.
  7. 14:08, which should have been a couple of minutes quicker, as I failed to spot a couple of the longer anagrams. Definitely testing, but great fun.
  8. It’s maybe worth adding that the hadj is the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca. Like other words from Arabic, it’s an old favourite in barred grid puzzles, as the variation in transliteration schemes creates multiple spellings – HAJ, HADJ, HAJJ – as well as having a final J.
  9. Having put 25 in early on I failed to notice that there was a secondine to 24’s clue and so couldn’t decide between not bad and not far and even net pay but couldn’t justify anything. Frustrating as I managed all the hard ones. Am I alone in this?
    1. Assuming that “secondine” means “second line”, you’re by no means alone in being deceived by creating difficulties of your own in addition to those created deliberately by the setter. Misread clues, misplaced markers for word breaks in clues, answers written in the wrong grid entry – you name it, we’ve all done it.
  10. I liked this a lot and seemed to get on the setter’s wavelength straight away. First in BHAJIS, last NAVY. About 20 mins for all except NAVY and WORD GAME which took a bit longer.

    I spent some time thinking 11dn had to be FOURTEEN (12d in the shilling plus 2) and wondered if the word lengths were wrong again, until the penny dropped (as it were).

  11. After 20 minutes I was left with 11 down and not a clue what on earth was going on. Managed to dredge up FOURTEENS ONE to fit the gap and that was where it ended up. WHEATEAR from definition, liked the clue for HARPO.
  12. Had to look up to confirm wheatear, strathspey, defrayal, Carmelites (vaguely knew) & cowl all new to me.
    Got Harpo without working out the wordplay and just couldn’t figure out 2d. Was thinking NEET (Not Employed, in Education or in Training) but was very doubtful.

    Guessed Lamb Shanks & then wikipedia’s Charles Lamb after.

    I have alot to learn oh wise ones!

  13. The fourpenny one certainly (and inevitably) found its way on to the seaside postcard (vide sinister). The caption, for silver solvers like me with dodgy eyesight, reads “I’d like to give her a fourpenny one!”. The pronunciation was definitely fawp’nee.
  14. I also failed to see the 2nd line of 24 for quite a long time so Anonymous is not alone.
    Otherwise I found this easy… apart from the difficult ones. Pleased to get 11 and 12 without ever having heard the terms but defeated by Strathspey and Wheatear so needed this blog. I’ve been following for a while and will sign up as soon as I can find a username that hasn’t been taken!
  15. Well, five days after sinus surgery, and with a headache, plus toothache, and I didn’t get very far today. ‘Pasquale’ in ‘The Guardain’ was also a no go area.

    Nice to hear of your progress Barry. I’m still trying to do an AZED every Sunday, and my ‘Times’ efforts are intermittent. Like Pete mentioned earlier, I do a few clues over breakfast, and some at lunchtime etc. If I complete, it is usually in the evening, when this site has usually gone quiet. Hopefully, there will come a time when I can get more clues in the morning and the puzzle takes a smaller proportion of the day (I don’t want to make myself too unpopoular at home, when Sundays are spent skimming through Chambers and Bradford!).Must give the quick crosswords a visit every now and then.

  16. Hard but fair, with 1ac giving a fair indication of the difficulties in store. Happy to finish unaided even though it took something more than an hour.

    Chuckled at HARPO and also enjoyed the clue to NOT BAD. I have a speleologist for a son, so look forward to sharing the pigs let loose joke with him some time.

  17. A laboured 39 min here, so challenging but very much enjoyed. Thank you setter.
  18. This was quite a challenging puzzle, which I did while thawing out from a sunny but bitingly cold walk in the vicinity of Kenilworth. I really enjoyed it (the crossword not the walk), particularly fourpenny one and Harpo. I ended with the almost symmetrically difficult pairings of wheatear/need and defrayal/navy.

    I was lucky to finish this one because I justified Carmelite as an anagram of cream followed by the Spenserian traffic lites stopping traffic. I was also sorely tempted by hazy for “in the shade” at 22 but the implausible hazzy for labourer caused me to search further and get navy.

  19. 25 m on the swing seat this time, distracted by birdsong. 1a raised a smile and i worked steadily down, last in 13’s second half, 24 and 14. Thank you for the explanations of those, which I put in without all the wherefores. Another strath – same setter?
    1. It shouldn’t be the same setter – I’m pretty sure that the crossword editor’s ways of preventing us from getting bored include never having the same setter or the same grid two days in a row. I think the same applies to (whole) words among the answers.
  20. I feel like I took a FOURPENNY ONE to the jaw after this. After an hour I resorted to aids to get that answer, never got NEED, and my entry for 8D was the incorrect STRATHSHEY, using ‘yeh’ as the assent rather than ‘yep’. So defeated by the setter today. I did enjoy a lot of what I solved, i.e. CINEASTE, JETTISONED and BAMBOOZLE. Regards to all.
  21. Found this one a little tough. 35 minutes of which the last 7 or so looking at N-E- having rejected Need as I thought it had nowt to do with crying out. Finally it hit me… Liked Bamboozle for the pleasant surface meaning.

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