Times 24483 – 90 Minutes Hard Labour

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
I solved this late last night. I don’t know whether I was tired and my brain was particularly slow but I found it a real slog which took me just under 90 minutes to crack. I think apart from a couple of loose definitions as mentioned below it’s technically sound as a puzzle, but after the delights of the past couple of days it seemed lacking in any humour and rather dull. I didn’t really enjoy it.

Across
1 C(LOTH)S – CS gas is sometimes used to control riots. I now know that it is named after American chemists Carson and Stoughton. “Wipers” is the definition but  the surface reading of the clue refers to the Belgian town Ypres, the scene of much conflict during WW1 which was nicknamed Wipers by the British troops.
5 HISS, (read)Y, FIT – A hissy fit is a temper tantrum here defined by “pet”.
9 1,L,LINO,IS
10 S(HER)PA – People of the Himalayas renowned as mountain guides. Probably the most famous was Sherpa Tenzing, one of the mountaineers to reach the summit of  Everest in 1953.
11 VINDALOO – O(ld) LAD reversed inside VINO. We seem to be working our way through a curry-house menu at the moment.
12 FRO(W)ST – Not a word I have met very often, but it means a warm stuffy atmosphere indoors. It also gives rise to the expression “frowst about” which can be used delightfully to describe the process of lounging about in such an environment and probably what I shall be doing for most of today .
13 ANGLICAN – Anagram of CAN GAIN and L (50). I’m not sure that being a believer is a prerequisite these days but it’s a fair enough assumption for our purposes..
15 S(log),PIN – Unless I am missing something (quite possible if cricket is involved) the definition here is weak or non-existent. One might be against anything.
17 FLAG(on) 
19 STRADDLE – (h)ELD, DARTS all reversed. Darts are colloquially known as arrows amongst those who follow the game.
20 EXEUNT – This is a stage direction from Latin instructing all the actors to leave the stage often at the end of a scene. It is not necessarily or even usually followed by the lowering of the curtain (even assuming there is one to lower) so that part of the definition here is somewhat dodgy in my opinion.
21 Deliberately omitted. Please ask if stumped.
22 SK(I’LL)Y – Skilly is a thin broth, apparently, and a word completely new to me.
23 VER,MOUTH – VER from REV(erend) reversed.
24 Deliberately omitted. Please ask if stumped.
25 NUDIST – Cryptic definition
 
Down
2 LOLLIPOP – PILL inside POOL all reversed. Another rather weak definition, I fear. Children love all sorts of things and some may not even like lollipops.
3 THIRD MAN – This refers to the famous mystery film,  espionage in general and cricket where the third man fields close to the boundary though I’m not sure that rope is ever used to define the boundary in this context.
4 S(POT)LIGHT
5 HISTORICAL NOVEL – Anagram of CHORAL IS IT followed by NOVEL indicating the rearrangement of the letters.
6 SAH,ARAN – HAS (rev) to the north of ARAN, the islands in Galway Bay.
7 FARE,WELL – The “Farewell Symphony” is Haydn’s No. 45 and is so-called because at the end of the final movement the musicians leave the platform one by one. This is said to have been a heavy hint to Haydn’s patron, Prince Nikolaus Esterhazy, that it was time to go home.
8 Deliberately omitted. Please ask if stumped.
14 ALDEBARAN – A star I never heard of cleverly hidden between four words.
15 SOMERSET – Anagram of SEE STORM, Somerset being in the West of England.
16 INTERIOR – A triple definition, I think, the second and third referring to interior design and the Minister for the Interior, a position in governments of various countries over the years. .
17 F(EEL,-G)OOD – I could do with some feel-good factor this morning!
18 ACETATES – “Ruined estate” clearly indicates the anagram element of the clue but I can’t find any justification for AC meaning accountant so I assume the required letters come from CA (Chartered Accountant). If this is right, then they need to be part of the anagram material yet they do not appear to be indicated as such. Acetates are or were something in the manufacture of gramophone records or possibly the records themselves.
19 S(INGLE)T – An ingle is a domestic fireplace. Top here refers to a piece of clothing.

34 comments on “Times 24483 – 90 Minutes Hard Labour”

  1. 11:41 – 19 and 22 (new to me too) last in. I think the cricket and other unknown stuff may have coloured jackkt’s views a bit. And the last two are a hard act to follow.

    I’m happy to watch cricket on the box but am no expert, and had vaguely heard of playing “against the spin” – a related facebook page of the same title appears to be quite popular. And ropes are still used for the boundaries (22’s sky = “knock up” is also mainly from cricket). Aldebaran is one of the 20 brightest stars in the night sky, and I would guess that about 13 of the top 20 have been in the Times puzzle at least once.

    AC = accountant (as opposed to account) does seem to be a mistake though – can’t see it in COED, Collins or even Chambers. I was doubtful about exeunt (thought of on first look) for similar reasons, so waited to write it until I had both E’s, and sought immediate confirmation for the N.

  3. Found this one tough but enjoyable. Took a tad longer than Jack and came up five short, three in the SW corner + FROWST, as well as VINDALOO. (I was looking for a wine, having been derailed by ‘given’ – is this an allowable convention for setters, or am I missing something?)

    “Ask if stumped” – very good.

    1. Various words like “given” are allowed to introduce definitions (and probably wordplay too) in the Times puzzle. Some seem less convincing than others, but the crucial point for solvers is that this is one reason why you can’t assume that the def always begins at the beginning of the clue or ends at the end of it. ({wordplay} {def} {second wordplay}) is another way, but more difficult for the setter.
  4. 20m. Agree CA or ACA, not AC, are accountants. Helped by early down anagrams but last in 1a, 5a, 11a. Farewell guessed, no deep knowledge of symphony names, but cricket clues no prob.
  5. Seems churlish to be grumpy after recent spendours. First in was the rather clever HISTORICAL NOVEL and I thought “This is going to be fun”. How wrong can you be? Managed TOASTING in NE corner but otherwise blank. I might have struggled on but was so fed-up with ACETATES, which as well as being obscure is just plain wrong, so couldn’t be bothered. As a follower, I got the cricket stuff, but thought too esoteric and having looked at FAREWELL on the blog I can’t see how anyone could work it out. Grrr!
  6. Three cricketing clues in one grid is a bit unfair on the non-13’s I suppose. I found this one tricky after the splendours of the last two, reading too much deviousness into the clues, I think. I had DRAMA for NOVEL in 5d which locked up the SE corner until I twigged.
    The mystery man at 3 reminded me of the splendid headline “Fourth Man was Twelfth Man” in the spoof edition of the Times during the strike of ’79, seen here on ebay. (Thanks Peter for supplying the format – it works!)
    22 minutes
  7. Even though it suffers by comparison with other puzzles this week I think this one would in any event appear a bit under par. EXEUNT is very weak, the THIRD MAN need not be “close to the rope” which is itself a bit loose as a definition, ACETATES I also believe to be in error.

    Unfortunately there are no humorous or really clever clues to balance these shortcomings so it all becomes a bit turgid. 25 minutes to solve.

  8. A similar esperience to most, although I thought HISTORICAL NOVEL, STRADDLE, TOASTING & CLOTHS were clever enough and worth a mention. Most of the time I sat staring into blankness, unable to penetrate the wordplay (apart from the cricket clues, for which thanks). I almost invented SUILLE – thin soup served at French restaurants – at 22, before SKILLY presented itself as an alternative (I’d never heard of it either).
  9. The default position for third man (as well as long leg, his counterpart on the on side) is deep (i.e. on the boundary), so the clue is fine. If you want to qualify third man, you’d say “short third man”, just as, to take a contrary example, you’d say “deep square leg” (the default option being infield, single-saving square leg) to indicate qualification of that position.

    Cricket – dead simple, really.

    Peter, what’s the code for making a link on LJ?

  10. I seem to remember that the old recording booths produced a poor quality flexible disc called an ACETATE.
  11. I made a very slow start on this, getting only 1, 13 and a couple of downs on the first scan of the clues. However, I then got into my stride and found it mostly straightforward, though I was left with 22, the checked letters of which suggested no soup that I knew, but I guessed “knock up” must equal SKY, so entered the right answer, but couldn’t be sure until I’d consulted a dictionary. The slow start meant that I took 45 minutes to complete it.

    I don’t feel as negative about this puzzle as many above, though I agree that clues such as 17 are pretty dull on the surface. I don’t think it was any worse than many Times puzzles.

    I didn’t like “Given” to introduce the definition in 11. That’s not because I have an objection to this sort of device in principle, but ‘given’ strikes me as somewhat inappropriate and is certainly misleading as far as the definition is concerned.

  12. I was more positive than most about this at least at the beginning. I enjoyed toasting, straddle, hissy fit and farewell. I even liked cloths sufficiently to forgive the capitalised Wipers. As I progressed I was less happy with the (to me) vaguely defined cricketing terms, exeunt and interior.

    Skilly and frowst were new to me. I was glad the star was a hidden word. I finished with 11 where I worked through tempranillo, orvietto, Barolo, Brunello, amontillado and many other wines before realising that I was looking for a curry. The dictionary suggests that vindaloo is derived from the Portuguese vin d’alho, wine and garlic sauce.

    1. The capital W was essential for the surface reading, doesn’t that validate its use? I’m never sure what the rules are on this sort of thing.
      1. The rule followed by the Times is that misleading capitalisation of a word like “wipers” to fit the surface is permissible, but that any word requiring a capital letter for the meaning in the cryptic reading must retain it. Azed gives the same verdict in his A-Z of Crosswords.
        1. Yes, I understand that the capitalisation is necessary for the surface. That’s why I think that that the setter should have contrived to start the clue with Wipers. I am aware that the Times and Azed permit this deviousness because we have discussed it before, probably the last time that Morse was used to define a walrus. This does not prevent me from disapproving of this practice and occasionally commenting on it.
  13. Kim Philby, I believe. That’s Cambridge for you, I’m afraid, producing spies and homosexuals – usually in the same person.
  14. First comment for over a week as I’ve been on the road.

    Just under 45 minutes with SKILLY the last one in. Gopt off to a good start in the NE corner, followed by SE. A bit of a struggle after that with neither surge nor famine.

    Liked HISTORICAL NOVEL and HISSY FIT. Less impressed with EXEUNT (seems just a single definition to me).

  15. A solid hour for me
    Like others Skilly and Frowst were new to me. quite hard really in my view. took a long time to see ClothS and historical novel. anyway easier than the club puzzle this month!
  16. resorted to aids for north east corner, probably too early. i do not believe that wine is the correct definition for vermouth, or it for that matter, as these are made by infusing various herbs in wine.
    i thought the puzzle suffered by comparison with yesterday but was not bad. i initially thought that Wipers was a reference to the famous trench newspaper Wipers Times. cod 1ac.
  17. Agreed, not in the same inventive league as the previous two puzzles. But some of the complaints above exude a slight odour of sour grapes to my nose – ACETATE is, indeed, an old type of recording disc, and therefore entirely accurate as used here, and the THIRD MAN has always fielded close to the boundary (rope) in any game of cricket I’ve played. All in all, a perfectly respectable Friday challenge. I particularly liked HISSY FIT.
    1. I don’t think anyone has queried that ACETATE is a type of recording disc but the references to inaccuracy in this clue are saying that for it to work AC has to stand for “accountant” yet there is no support for this in any of the usual dictionaries.
      1. My stance was more against the other comments than your blog. Too much negativity against a crossword which I thought had not much wrong with it.

        As for the EXEUNT clue, I thought it was a perfectly good cryptic definition. If it’s misleading, fine – it’s supposed to be, but it means what it says. When I looked at it I had E_E_ _ _, and wrote it straight in.

      2. Fair point. I didn’t read the comments on ACETATE with sufficient care. The AC=accountant bit of the clue had me somewhat perplexed too.
  18. About 35 minutes for me, ending with the crossing FAREWELL/FROWST, and SKILLY. I had been thinking of FAREWELL but didn’t know it was a symphony, and I think I have a vague recollection of the atmosphere inside Sherlock Holmes rooms on Baker St. being described as FROWSTY. I finally saw the cricket ref. to get SKILLY (never heard of it), had earlier seen the cricketty stuff in SPIN, and never saw the cricket ref. about ‘close to the rope’ til comiing here. I thought the ACETATES were referring to microfiche film, thus being old records. On EXEUNT, I thought the ‘before the curtain’ was an indication that you’re on a stage, so ‘direction to go’ is a good definition, and I assumed there was another definition I didn’t know meaning ‘final’, but I can’t find any justification for that. Regards all.
  19. This was rather a grind, but was glad of a difficult one, as I was on a flight back to the UK and needed the distractiion. Thought briefly there might have been a FIREWALL symphony, but then realised it had to be FAREWELL. I too had never heard of SKILLY or FROWST before, but FROWSTY rang a distant bell, so assumed the noun form must exist. I’d been trying to fit in FUG, which means the same thing and is much more frequent.
  20. 12:18 for me, on the way home rather than on the way n to work today, as I forgot my pen and had to buy one specially for it! What a bunch of moaning minnies you are today. I found nothing wrong with the cricket references, the symphony (I’m not a Musical Mafia member and I’ve heard of it), saw nothing wrong with 20d – just because the curtain doesn’t fall every time they “exeunt” is irrelevant, as I’m sure it does more often than not. I’d never heard of SKILLY, which was my last one in, but got it from the wordplay. I accept that the clue to ACETATES was flawed but that would be my only criticism.
    1. Well, there we go! I don’t think I complained about cricket terms, I just said I didn’t understand “against” with reference to “spin” and I suspected a better knowledge of cricket might explain it, and apparently, going by later comments, it would have.

      And I wondered about pitch boundaries being marked by ropes. I’ve never heard of or seen this but am quite happy to take others’ word that it’s okay.

      But I would take issue over the comments about EXEUNT being “irrelevant”. As Duncan has pointed out it’s just a single definition so with little else to go on the clue needs to be specific and accurate. This one was not.

      1. Well, now we know what happens when someone replies to a comment that they subsequently edit before the reply is posted!

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