Times 190460 – a world apart

Author   piquetPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
This came as a bit of a shock as I hadn’t realised the qualifiers for the next championship were starting already. I feared the worst when I saw this was an alternative puzzle dating from 1960. A year remembered by me (aged 12) for the release of Apache by the Shadows and the £12 purchase of my first bass guitar (to emulate Jet Harris). Among other less notable milestones, The Times changed its “Imperial and Foreign” news section to “Overseas News”, Corrie began, and Denis Law signed for Man City for a record £55,000. How times change, as does The Times.
My fears were soon realised. I confess I had to resort to aids quite early on; once doing that, I was able to complete the puzzle (I hope correctly) in twenty minutes or so, but with little of the satisfaction you get from a modern-day test. Parsing all the answers is another matter, as some definitions are ‘loose’ &lits (an understatement!) and some clues are fit only for today’s TLS. If today’s crosswords were all like this, I’d find a better way to spend my £100 a year.
I’ve only underlined the definitions in the clues, where one or two words apply.

If anyone would like to blog next Wednesday’s (26th) for me, it would be appreciated, as I’m going on a 3 day golfing jolly and won’t have time or access to the necessary. Swap for a Monday (not 24th) or any Friday if you like.

Across
1 In the shape of a novel island (11)
CORALLIFORM – Apart from meaning ‘shaped like a piece of coral’ and being used to describe a common kind of cataract disease, I don’t get the cryptic part of this clue if there is one. I suppose a ‘new’ island could be formed from a coral reef. There is a pasta shape called ‘coralli’ but as far as I can see, no island of that name. Ho hum.
9 They leave a tail of broken china cups (9)
CAPUCHINS – Anagram of (CHINA CUPS)*, capuchins are pretty little monkeys and they use their prehensile tails a lot and don’t want to lose them, so exactly why ‘leave a tail’ I don’t see.
10 “Imitate his action” cried Henry V before Harfleur (5)
TIGER – In the 6th line of the “once more unto the breach” speech Henry says “Then imitate the action of the tiger”. You either knew it or you didn’t.
I was a literature-hater at school, and didn’t.
11 This side for bargains in the City? (5)
CHEAP – Cheapside is a street in the City of London. So you’d get bargains there perhaps.
12 Striking example of manly spirit? (9)
IMPINGENT – An IMP IN GENT could be a spirit in a man.
13 Apparently it could be cold in the inn (7)
AUBERGE – An auberge is of course a French inn. An (ice)berg is cold? So if you were ‘au berg’ you’d be shivering? Je ne sais rien.
15 Self-importance that comes from tidying (7)
DIGNITY – (TIDYING)*; Not quite a synonym in my view, but at least a simple clue.
17 Mixed drinks for Boxing Day? (7)
PUNCHES – &lit., I suppose.
17 (T)horny predicament? (7)
DILEMMA – ‘On the horns of a dilemma’ is a common phrase, somewhat tautological: δίλημμα means two horns, or two propositions, in Greek. Presumably thorny, because it’s a difficult choice, neither being attractive.
21 Written (or spoken) by successful candidates in an
examination? (9)
PASSWORDS – Well, passwords, in 1960, were spoken; and PASS WORDS would be written to pass an exam.
23 “Woo’t drink up ____? Eat a crocodile?” (Hamlet) (5)
EISEL – another straight TLS clue. Apparently eisel is an obsolete word for vinegar. I’d never heard of it.
25 Health food? (5)
TOAST – A hint of humour? You toast someone’s health, and you eat toast.
26 They provided entertainment for a kind of floating
population (9)
SHOWBOATS – Cryptic &lit, I suppose.
27 Was Cupid the first successful one? (5,6)
DARTS PLAYER – Another weak cryptic definition.

Down
1 Ideal place for a police trap? (5)
COPSE – Well it’s a place that sounds like ‘COPS’ and it fits the crossers. The rest of ‘why’ is not obvious to me.
2 With which the fisherman might get the measure of some
modern dancing? (4,5)
ROCK PERCH – Modern dancing, in 1960, could have been ‘rock (and roll’) to Bill Hayley; a perch is a measure as in rod, pole or perch; a fisherman might catch a rock perch.
3 Don’t leave it to the experts! (7)
LAICISE – Leave (it) to the lay people not the experts.
4 In a trifling drink I’d find no taste (7)
– IN, SIP (trifling drink), I’D.
5 Frequently possessed by tiger? (5)
OFTEN – All I can see here is a story written by William Blankenship called TIGER TEN, perhaps that’s the connection.
6 Used in light metal industry? (9)
MAGNESIUM – Well, magnesium is a ‘light’ metal (only 1.74 relative density) and it burns with a bright light, so I suppose it’s used in the ‘light industry’.
7 Plant doubly if little account comes up very well (6)
ACACIA – All reversed: A1 (very well), CA, CA (doubly little account).
8 This penny means a lot (6)
PRETTY – If something costs a ‘pretty penny’ it is expensive.
14 But in it the majority of players don’t really! (9)
BANDSTAND – Most of the band sit down.
16 Outstanding issue touched upon by the king of Phrygia?
(6,3)
GOLDEN BOY – Midas was the King of Phrygia, or one of them; he touched his daughter (issue) who turned into a gold statue. So why ‘boy’ not girl?
17 It’s after the seed we find the birds (6)
PIPITS – PIP for seed, IT’S.
18 Fruitful association of American women (7)
SOROSIS – An obscure double definition. A fruit like a pineapple or mulberry, or the first association of American women (from soror, L sister)
19 Rob of old pies (7)
DESPOIL – (OLD PIES)*, no anagram indicator I’m afraid, unless you count ‘of’.
20 Where to find a snob eventually? (2,4)
AT LAST – Double definition, one crpytic one not. A snob was originally a shoemaker or his apprentice, as all solvers know.
22 “…makes it indistinct, as ____ is in ____” (Antony and
Cleopatra) (5) (2,4)
WATER – Another TLS job. As water is in water? The Bard was no chemist.
24 Prelude to a landing (5)
STAIR – Not very subtle cryptic clue.

36 comments on “Times 190460 – a world apart”

  1. 1 across – presumably a reference to the novel “Coral Island”.
    5 down – the ten must refer to the answer to 10 across.
    1. Ah, indeed, I’d never heard of this book and didn’t Google thoroughly enough!
      1. It is interesting to note that Coral Island was apparently the ‘inverted’ inspiration for William Golding’s ‘Lord of the Flies’ -utopia to dystopia.
  2. I think the Midas clue definition is “outstanding issue”. Chambers has for GOLDEN BOY “a young man or woman of outstanding talents”. The touched by Midas bit doesn’t have to be traceable in the original stories.
    Pip, you have my appreciation for taking this on. 1960 is way before any sensible rules were observed, and you had to have a kind of collusion with the setter to guess what he was about. I think, for example, you have everything there is to know about AUBERGE: oh look, it’s got an (ice) berg in it!
    There might be a misprint in CAPUCHINS: trail would make more sense of the clue than tail.
    On the other hand, AT LAST is a properly decent clue and raised a smile, as did BANDSTAND once I saw it
  3. when this bugger was served up. At about that time I first read Treasure Island (1883) and then Ballantyne’s Coral Island (1858) which was much the same from dim memory.

    That’s how I remember the old Thunderer Crosswords, plenty of Shakespeare and loose definitions. The Telegraph was a better bet. I managed to parse it all but don’t ask my time.

    FOI 9ac CAPUCHINS LOI 12ac IMPINGENT

    COD and WOD CORALLIFORM with Hon.Ments. to 8dn PRETTY and 14dn BANDSTANDS

    Edited at 2017-04-19 07:45 am (UTC)

  4. All the rules change when these old-timers pop up, so I allowed myself a liberal use of aids. Still struggled to finish within the hour, but was pleased to have them all correct.

    Thought IMPINGENT, DARTS PLAYER and GOLDEN BOY were pretty good, possibly because I understood them. And I like OFTEN now that it’s been explained by Anon above.

    I know there’ll be some nostalgia for this blast from the past, but in my humble opinion, if there’s a golden age of crosswords, we’re in it now.

    Thanks setter (or RIP setter, I guess) and well done Pip, tough gig.

      1. Thank you so much. I now have my fix for the day.
        I wonder why they don’t post it on the crossword club site. I have spent longer looking for this than it will take to do the puzzle (I hope).

        Thanks again
        Brian

        1. It is on the crossword club site under “Latest News” on the right and also in “Club News”. I agree it could be made more prominent.
  6. Yes, this was from a different era, when literary knowledge was needed to solve some clues. But lots to enjoy in the cryptic definition type area which I think was what originally gave cryptic crosswords their appeal. Esp liked PUNCHES, TOAST and I thought STAIR pretty OK too. Many thanks for the excellent blog – it must have been quite a challenge which you met very well.
  8. I printed this out to take to the garage and sit with while my car was MOT’d. As such, I was very glad to find they also had a copy of the actual paper in the waiting area, as I got virtually nowhere. A full scan gave me “well, that’s probably DILEMMA”, and nothing else.

    I gave up and did the qualifier puzzle instead, faster than Dick Lovett managed to pass my car and give it a wash, I’m pleased to say.

      1. I spent nearly half an hour trying to make an anagram out of DOCTOR WAKINA, with alarming results.
          1. So you doctor ‘WAKINA’ to come up with a love spell specialist? As Sotira suggests that smacks of something very risque.
  9. Wow! That was tough. I resorted to aids after solving around 10 clues, half of which I couldn’t parse. I didn’t enter COPSE until near the end even though it was one of my first thoughts. Even when I found the answer I couldn’t work out the parsing for many of the clues. There were some exceptions, 14d, 17d, 19d, 19a 20d and most of the NW where I understood and appreciated the clues, but most of it was gobble de gook. A tough blog Pip! Well done.
    On edit: Forgot to mention that even with aids this took 62:57!

    Edited at 2017-04-19 05:31 pm (UTC)

  10. Yeah, I didn’t enjoy this one much – 1960 is a little before my time (about 15 years before, at least). I guess obscure words from Shakespeare were more fun to have to go hunt down before the internet made things a bit too easy for everybody…. I did know the tiger, though.

    Perfectly happy to swap Wednesday for Friday next week if you’re still looking for a trade!

    1. Thanks V, I will accept the offer, I’ll do Friday 28th. Hope you don’t get one of these in place of the qualifier! Maybe something in the 1980s would suit?
      EDIT just read the T&C for the first Qualifier and it says the next one is in May so you should be safe from antique torture.
      Pip

      Edited at 2017-04-19 03:08 pm (UTC)

    2. Obscure words (forsooth)? In those days (not too long before my time) solvers were assumed either to know any quotations the Times crossword threw at them, or – if they’d forgotten them momentarily – to be able to go instantly to their source ;-).
      1. Well I remember my grandfather’s wall of Britannicas and handsome leather-bound complete works of Dickens, Shakespeare etc… living rooms just aren’t the same these days, I tell you.
  11. I was completely defeated by this antique, even after accepting the need to use aids to level the playing field. I can count on two hands and a foot the number of answers I got and understood, and I did like some of them.

    Well done Pip, and hats off to you.

  12. I usually rather enjoy the oldies – not this one. Didn’t submit because I had a deadline (medical appointment) and just gave up and looked here. Thanks Pip. Even the TLS training didn’t help. CORALLIFORM – yikes. And I wondered if the ROCK PERCH was an unknown (to me but presumably well known to the then readership of the Times) name for a fishing fly. I hope the next one is more fun.
  13. Liked this one….not a lot. With the benefit of hindsight this was not one to try and squeeze in to a spare half an hour. Shakespeare is for losers!
  14. I got PIPITS. Then I gave up. I’ll give the qualifier a whirl now to make myself feel better. Regards.
  15. I first tried out DIFFUSIFORM for 1a. I was thinking along the lines of Chateau D’If (The prison island in “Count of Monte Christo”) Then when I’d got the C?R starter I ended up with CORFUSIFORM (Isn’t Corfu the island in “My Family & Other Animals”?) I read “Coral Island” as a child and should have thought of it. (Ralph, Jack and Peterkin – transmuted into Ralph, Jack and Piggy in LotF). So I messed up the NW corner. Got the rest (without aids) but it took about an hour. When this puzzle was first printed I was still reading the Daily Worker and doing the crossword in the Radio Times. So glad both I and the Times Crossword have moved on!
  16. 21:27 without the use of aids of any kind, so a certain amount of guessing was called for. I dithered a long time over 3dn before eventually choosing the “correct” version (more through good luck than good judgement). And I wasn’t entirely sure of EISEL (I’d completely forgotten the relevant part of the quotation but know the word well enough from Ximenes and The Listener), IMPINGENT (didn’t know the word, though I could see what it must have been derived from), or SOROSIS (if I ever knew the fruit, I’d forgotten it).

    I think I actually read The Coral Island before I read Treasure Island (a very long time ago), but stupidly I couldn’t get the latter out of my mind for simply ages.

    Nevertheless this is exactly the sort of challenge I really enjoy.

  17. Gave up on this with about a third done. I can sort of see the appeal if you’re on the right wavelength but life’s too short.
  18. Did half of this on my iphone before the penny dropped that it was an oldie – for a moment I thought quotes had come back into fashion. The rest I got from here i’m afraid…
  19. Got round to this last night. I am resigned to being (with Tony) the only one around here who enjoys these antiques .. really they are a biff-fest and you can rattle straight through them once you get used to the style, which does take me a while. Finished in c25 mins, having had to look up eisel
    1. Although I called it ‘a bugger’ I too enjoy the oldies when the the crossword world was set on a different axis. Unfortunately I just don’t have time to tackle the TLS these days.
      1. Yes it’s a b*gger isn’t it .. not just the cryptics but the jumbos too and the Mephisto, Club Monthly and TLS .. I draw the line at the Listener & Latin ones but tend to do the rest, and if something has to go it’s the Mephisto these days

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