I struggled more with this than my last two bouts with Harry. It features some very original—one might even say quirky—cluing and a couple British slang words that were almost out of reach.
I indicate (Ars Magna)* like this, and words flagging such rearrangements are italicized in the clues.
| ACROSS | |
| 1 | Typical of daughter to have a pop (4) |
| SODA “It’s SO Persephone!” or whatever your Daughter’s name might be, or “Typical of” her + A |
|
| 3 | For example, a trinket or a treat (4,1,5) |
| LIKE A CHARM LIKE, “For example” + A CHARM, “a trinket” Chambers has the (heretofore unknown to me) idiom “go down a treat,” meaning “to be received very well”—making “a treat” mean “very well”… or LIKE A CHARM. |
|
| 10 | Awful acne is red as rose (9) |
| INCREASED (acne is red)* |
|
| 11 | Novice with no time for teacher (5) |
| RABBI RABBI |
|
| 12 | Bargain outlets at front, a few finally going bust (5) |
| BOSOM B |
|
| 13 | Cold bud in Bordeaux only in undies (8) |
| CAMISOLE (C)old + AMI, “bud in Bordeaux” + SOLE, only |
|
| 15 | Journo in broadcast about crackpots (7) |
| WHACKOS HACK, “Journo” inside SOW<=“about” |
|
| 17 | Lilt and port consumed in some volume with drug (7) |
| CADENCE C(ADEN)C + E(cstasy), aka MDMA CC = cubic centimetres |
|
| 19 | Ran out of old wine private eye opened (7) |
| EXPIRED EX, “old” + P(rivate) I(nvestigator) + RED, wine |
|
| 21 | Hard test head brought back for impish kids (7) |
| TINKERS “Stinker” with the first letter at the end |
|
| 22 | One once in Split broadcast I covered (8) |
| DIVORCEE (I covered)* |
|
| 24 | Lottery? Getting only first of numbers sucked! (5) |
| DRAWN DRAW, “Lottery?” + N |
|
| 27 | Bow man has no use for this long tie (5) |
| HITCH H, “Bow man [Cockney] has no use for this” + ITCH, “long” |
|
| 28 | Criminal last seen crossing island to get key (9) |
| ESSENTIAL (last seen)+ also includes I(sland) |
|
| 29 | Breath-taking southern Republican involved in revolt (10) |
| SURPRISING (S)U(R)PRISING |
|
| 30 | Bank of river by cathedral city (4) |
| RELY R(iver) + ELY, “cathedral city” |
|
| DOWN | |
| 1 | In rows, pleb upset Flipper’s producer (4,6) |
| SPIN BOWLER (In rows, pleb)* |
|
| 2 | Love note is rubbish? Don’t start that! (5) |
| DUCKS D, “note” + |
|
| 4 | With paranoid leader out, checks for bugs (7) |
| INSECTS INS |
|
| 5 | Nurse and sick medic confined to quarters? (7) |
| ENDEMIC E(nrolled) N(urse) + (medic)* As distinguished from a pandemic, which is everywhere. |
|
| 6 | Carriages picking up duke and two queens? (5) |
| CARDS CAR(D)S |
|
| 7 | Vehicle from which porters unload green cases? (9) |
| AMBULANCE CD …and one that is indeed quite C! |
|
| 8 | Premier being probed by head of Interpol (4) |
| MAIN MA(I)N |
|
| 9 | One prepping for one’s future retirement? (8) |
| BEDMAKER CD |
|
| 14 | Pearls only put out for me in particular (10) |
| PERSONALLY (pearls only)* |
|
| 16 | A bit of advice in hearing for commissioner? (9) |
| APPOINTER “a pointer” |
|
| 18 | Fight that a couple of campanologists might start (4-4) |
| DING-DONG Jocular cryptic hint |
|
| 20 | Orders and awards good to go for conservative (7) |
| DECREES DE |
|
| 21 | Note-taking Parisian very attached to crime (7) |
| TREASON TRE(A)S + ON, “attached to” |
|
| 23 | Alternative dam has no piece of masonry (5) |
| OTHER |
|
| 25 | A fancy uniform (5) |
| ALIKE A + LIKE, “fancy” |
|
| 26 | The present is so non-U, one admitted (4) |
| THIS TH |
|
Thank you Guy, I wondered how 27a worked. I got as far as thinking long indicated itch, but couldn’t make the connection between H and bow man.
It took me a while to get BOSOM – I spent too long toying with BOOBS. I just couldn’t get them to work.
22A: the meaning of “once” involved is simply “formerly”. Any divorcee must have formerly/once been in a split = separation.
18D: is a double definition with one of the defs being cryptic. In British English, “ding-dong” can mean a fight, which is presumably why you underlined it, and the indication of the sound of bells is a separate definition.
Hmm. I took “split” as synonymous with “divorce,” as verb or noun. What bothered me about that clue was “once,” because “one once” seemed to be meant to imply “‘(as) one’ once with someone else,” but too elliptically, until I thought of the other definition of “once”! Didn’t (obviously) think of a preliminary stage of separation distinct from (the ultimate separation of) divorce… which can sometimes happen without a preliminary stage (while it’s estimated that 80 percent of marital separations end in divorce).
The second part of DING-DONG seemed too humorous to be a definition, strictly speaking.
I did not mean to suggest a previous separation before the divorce indicated by “split”. “Divorcee” as a status doesn’t just mean someone divorcing now or very recently. Like “graduate” or “widow(er)”, it can be used long afterwards, and there are certainly people who describe themselves as “remarried divorcees”.
I’ll never understand why you and one or two other people here cannot accept that “definition”, in discussions of cryptic crosswords, means any part of a clue indicating the meaning of an answer rather than all or some of the letters in it, whether it is humorous, deliberately disguised, or otherwise different from a dictionary definition. My biggest reason from being proud of starting this blog is that it helps people to understand how cryptic clues work, and therefore become able solvers more quickly than I did long ago. I can’t see personal versions of technical language as something helping that process.
A person becomes a divorcée immediately upon being “split” (the definitive separation). That’s all I meant. It made sense of “once” for me, until you seemed to give another meaning to “once.” “Once” really bothered me, not sure why. I even checked that “divorcée” is not yet regarded as old-hat! But being divorced is both something that happens once and a condition that persists, as you say.
I don’t know whose “version” of “technical language” (?) the phrase “cryptic hint” is—it didn’t originate with me—but I think it’s usually been used in a way that should confuse nobody, when the “straight” definition is also underlined. I even feel the distinction may at times be salutary.
Well as you’ve changed what you originally said, my original point is now difficult to understand for someone whe doesn’t remember your original comment.
As I write this, you say “also underlined” when (at present) only one of the two definitions is underlined, and there is no indication that “cryptic hint” means part of the clue rather than all of it. The idea of underlining definitions is surely most helpful when anything not uderlined must logically be wordplay.
I haven’t changed anything I’d previously said. You have to re-open a post to edit it here, so I’d know if I’d done that..
I didn’t edit my first comment after you replied. That wouldn’t be kosher.
But maybe you meant that I deleted the gloss on the clue in the blog, after you said it was wrong. About “once” as a conjunction (if anyone is curious).
I do know what I underlined and what I didn’t (believe it or not), so I thank you for the startling alert to the typo that I will now, of course, refrain from correcting in the original post, instead telling you that I meant to tap into my phone “the straight definition is underlined,” with no “also.”
Good night!
If you want to believe that deleting content is not changing what you said, that’s up to you.
Oh, brother!
I just didn’t realize at first that you meant the note in the blog, which was not my own words but a citation from Collins.
I’m not sure if it’s what you mean here but I distinguish between ‘straight’ definitions, which correspond to what’s in the dictionary, and cryptic ones, which don’t. I general don’t underline the latter. None of which is relevant here because both of these definitions are of the first variety!
I still think that a key distinction for new solvers to understand is which parts of a clue are definition(s) of the answer rather than wordplay (which can in turn include definitions of parts of the answer). Learning to recognise what could be an answer definition in a not yet solved clue is surely a key skill, so I remain convinced that underlining all answer defs would be more helpful to learners than underlining some of them.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. Cryptic definitions often rely on puns – quite literally wordplay! To my mind the distinction is an important one.
“Wordplay” is another word we use with a particular meaning when talking about cryptic clues. We could go back to calling it “subsidiary indication” instead, but as both terms have to be explained at the beginning of any “how to solve” advice that uses one of them, I personally prefer “wordplay”.
Whatever we call it, to my mind anything that does not relate to the actual meaning of the answer is a subsidiary indication.
Richard’s second paragraph had me LOL!
I liked this. It’s always a good sign when 1a goes in straight away but I know that can’t always be a reliable indicator of an easy puzzle. LIKE A CHARM took a little while to come as I didn’t immediately see the like/for example bit. I’ve also not heard of rabbit for novice but the checkers helped. Managed to see BOSOM fairly quickly. Also didn’t know TINKERS for impish kids but the hard test was pretty helpful. Can’t really see flipper equating to spinning in SPIN BOWLER. Happy to be proven wrong. Liked DUCKS. Don’t know about ‘green’ cases in 7d, I would’ve thought if you’re green you’re just a little seasick/under the weather but not requiring an ambulance. I knew DING-DONG but have only heard it said as ding-dong battle. TREASON was tricky until I saw ‘tres’. 23d had me thinking of ‘apron’ for piece of masonry.
Thanks Guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipper_(cricket)
Ah! Ok. I thought I’d watched enough cricket to be familiar with the terms. Obviously not!
Failed. I should learn to spell and pay more attention to the wordplay – an incorrect BOSUM at 12a. A good puzzle with plenty of clues taking a while to work out. I failed on the parsing of HITCH, like Richard above not thinking of the correct sense of’Bow’ to come up with the H. I agree about RABBIT not being the first word to come to mind for ‘Novice’ and like Quadrophenia I hadn’t come across TINKERS for ‘impish kids’ before either. Favourite was DUCKS; I wonder how often you would hear it used for ‘Love’ in say Des Moines, Iowa?
Our setter today composed a great clue for ST 4954 in May 2021 which links 12a and 18d:
Result of donning Wonderbra? Ding-dong! (4-2)
Thanks to Guy and setter
Perhaps he was thinking of this clip from Carry On Teacher?
Er…, you may be right! Joan Sims and Leslie Phillips – another era.
Also Ted Ray. Leslie first used the catchphrase in Carry On Nurse released in 1959, the same year as Teacher, and in many appearances after that. He died as recently as 2022 aged 98.
I thought ‘Love’ is Duck, not ‘Ducks’.
Can you please explain.
It’s definition 5 for “duck” in Collins, where it’s noted “Also ducks”: “dear or darling: used as a term of endearment or of general address.”
ducks, ducky, duck (some or all possibly preceded by “my/me”) – just local variations. I’ve seen one web page attaching “ducks” to Lincolnshire, but I wouldn’t be surprised if another said somewhere else.
“Me old duck” : a common, affectionate, greeting in my then home-town in Lincolnshire!
I used to hear DUCKS all the time as a kid in Newmarket (Suffolk). Not so common now.
I didn’t record my time for this one.
‘Green’ as in ‘sickly’ I suppose at 7dn?
‘Rabbit’ as a novice in sport has come up before with reference to cricket where it can also refer more specifically to a poor batsman.
NHO WHACKO/S as a noun before, but Collins has it.
The Guardian would have put ‘Bowman’ at 27ac. I’m glad to note that Times / Sunday Times standards are being maintained.
For “green,” all I could find was “sickly looking,” but, yeah, guess that’s the idea.
Collins has ‘sickly…as from illness’ which perhaps adds a little more weight to the surface.
I got a little tied up with ‘green cases’ until green=poorly came to mind.
The NHS has a code green which, unfortunately for the clue, means ‘Requires medical intervention but not with any urgency. Can walk to treatment’. Other countries seem to use code green to mean that nurses need extra assistance with a patient.
Apart from that all went well with the exception of Bow man and H – a lovely moment when I saw that particular light.
Good puzzle, but DNF 2d Ducks. I saw love, but missed the (s)ucks, and for some reason I’ve forgotten I didn’t biff it.
5d Endemic; I was surprised at EN for nurse; I do remember there was a State Enrolled Nurse, SEN, and a Registered one SRN.
6d Cards. I still don’t see cards=2 queens. A pack could be 4 queens? Biffed.
7d Ambulance. Again I had no clue what “green” is doing in this clue, so biffed.
9d Bedmaker. Wiktionary has this as someone who manufactures beds; it has bedder as specifically a maker-up of beds etc at Cambridge U. So I’m a bit foxed, but shrugged and moved on.
21d Treason. Tricky! COD I think.
Thanks Guy & David McLean.
It’s “two queens?” with the question mark meaning “definition by example.”
Doh! Thanks Guy.
18:51. I thought this was excellent. I took it on trust that a ‘flipper’ was some sort of cricket delivery, which it is (see above).
24.31
Completely missed that meaning of ducks (which I do know) but bunged in DUCKS nonetheless as nothing else appealed. Also flailing on the parsing for HITCH. “Bow man” was very good. Otherwise smooth enough though took longer than it should to get DECREES at the end
Thanks all. I must confess to rather looking forward to Guy and Peter’s verbal sparring, even if I immediately get lost understanding the finesse of what’s being discussed..🙂
I look forward to it ending.
Me too!
Hadn’t realised that “a treat” is a particularly British phrase, but Collins confirms it.
I think also the phrases “Works a treat” and “Works like a charm” show how “a treat” = “like a charm” for 3ac.
For 2d, OED has under “duck”:
“II.3.c. With hypocoristic suffix ‑s. Used as a familiar form of address.”
Although their earliest citation, from a 1936 London-set crime thriller “The Gilt Kid” by James Curtis…
“She crossed her legs. Her thighs were white and shapeless. ‘Got a fag, ducks?’”
…probably isn’t ideal for a US readership either!
‘Green cases’ could actually be referring to gangrenous patients rather than unwell ones, it would work either way. I failed to parse it though as I didn’t think of patients=cases.
Well, I wouldn’t call a gangrenous patient “well”…
Could someone please explain 27a? Bow man and h? Totally beaten…
It’s in the blog.
As I understand it, Bow is a district of London where people speak the cockney dialect, where it is common to drop the ‘H’ at the beginning of a word. So in the answer HITCH the H=”Bow man has no use for this” and ITCH=”long”. Tie=HITCH.
Can’t do that for you, Michael, as several of these clues left me scratching my head (tinkers=impish kids?, sucked=drawn?, appointer=commissioner?, Novice=rabbit?) but I enjoyed those i did get ( even with a bit of a MER for green cases needing an ambulance!). As an ex-Britisher, am very used to phrases like DING DONG and WHACKOS and even DUCKS. Still don’t get the parsing for TREASON. Liked CAMISOLE and BOSOM sharing a line.
“Very” in French (“Parisian”) is très. A is the random (musical) “note” it takes. TRE(A)S
The Biddlecome quibbling was needlessly tetchy, in my view. We’re here for enlightenment by a community of shared interest. Got this all out eventually, and thankful for the parsing of DUCKS and HITCH. Thanks to David and Guy.
Thanks David and Guy
Clearing up another old one, where I continue to struggle with this setter with this one taking over two and a half hours of solve time, across a couple of weeks – and probably the main cause of falling behind so far. Was eventually able to solve and parse most of it, although there were a couple that needed the blog – AMBULANCE, wrote it in with a shrug and not really going down the ‘green’ is unwell thought. Was comfortable with DUCKS to be ‘love’ but didn’t think of [S]UCKS as being ‘rubbish’.
Was pleased to finally see the word play for WHACKOS and HITCH(a neat trick with the Bow man).
Finally finished with APPOINTER and THIS in the SW corner and that DUCKS in the NW.