Sunday Times 4942 by David McLean

Author   keriothePosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
7:21. A pretty straightforward puzzle this week from Harry, but a quirky one, with some unusual vocabulary (1ac, 18ac, 4dn) and some quite oblique definitions. I remain puzzled by one clue – 6dn – where I seem to be missing something, so any ideas welcome. Otherwise all good fun. I think my favourite clue is 22ac: there is something very neat about indicating one word with another single word which actually means something completely different if you read it literally.

Definitions are underlined, anagrams indicated like (TIHS)*, anagram indicators are in italics.

Across
1 Top American telly
BOOB TUBE – DD. I only knew one of the definitions here but one is enough!
5 Repeal a French act
UNDO – UN (a French), DO.
8 I’m told boatmen go sailing
CRUISE – sounds like ‘crews’.
9 Sad after autumn trip?
FALL DOWN – or, er, DOWN after FALL.
10 Bit of earth on tree shoot
FIRE – FIR, Earth.
11 They help people understand words in Polish sign
GLOSSARIES – GLOSS, ARIES (sign of the zodiac).
12 Give lift to con
TAKE FOR A RIDE – I’m going to classify the first part of this clue as wordplay, because you wouldn’t really say you were taking someone for a ride if you were just giving them a lift, but if you want to call it another definition I won’t sue.
16 Road of Bones
HARLEY STREET – CD, ‘bones’ being a term for a doctor, particularly a surgeon. The only time I’ve frequented this street it was for dental reconstruction work which involved the removal of a small piece of bone from my hip a very large quantity of money from my bank account.
18 Backslider such as Buzz Aldrin?
MOONWALKER – again, I’m not sure whether to classify ‘backslider’ as cryptic or not, but it doesn’t really matter. The moonwalk is a dance move made famous by Michael Jackson that involves sliding backwards on your feet in such a way that it looks from the movement of your legs like you should be going forwards. I used to be able to do it.
20 I fled foreign land
IRAN – or I RAN.
21 Blow striking person
KNOCKOUT – DD.
22 Lampshade?
EYELID – CD. Because ‘lamp’ is a word for the eye, and your eyelid shades it. Very neat!
23 Going back 14 minutes is great
MEGA – reversal of AGE (the answer to 14dn), M.
24 Weak royal judgement
THINKING – or THIN KING.
Down
1 Air a BBC broadcast on new theatre
BARBICAN – (AIR A BBC)*, N.
2 Possibly sheepish old climber
OVINE – O, VINE. I don’t know why ‘possibly’.
3 Perhaps 7 years in the 18th century?
THE AGE OF REASON – from Wikipedia: ‘The age of reason is the age at which children attain the use of reason and begin to have moral responsibility. On completion of the seventh year a minor is presumed to have the use of reason.’ Also a term for the Enlightenment.
4 Love being sat on by fit comic
BUFFO – BUFF (fit), O. A term from Italian opera.
5 A rude Wren dances in this
UNDERWEAR – (A RUDE WREN)*. Semi-&Lit.
6 Might I be one necking booze?
DOWNER – I don’t understand this clue. The best I can think of is that the first words refer to the fact that you might refer to this clue – a down clue – as a DOWNER. But I’m not entirely convinced. Edit: see my comment below: DOWNER can refer to a depressing person (rather than just a depressing experience), who might be drowning their sorrows. I think that’s what is intended here.
7 Medical professional paid to make puss better?
PLASTIC SURGEON – CD. No, ‘puss’ is a word for the face, do grow up. The professional body for such practitioners is called BAAPS, yes really, I don’t see what’s funny about that, see me after class.
13 Plant employee China ceases holding
ECHINACEA – contained in ‘employee China ceases’.
14 For instance, a revolutionary period
AGE – reversal of EG, A.
15 Threatening guys passing with no trouble at all?
MENACING – MEN, ACING (as in a test).
17 Black cat swagger
BOUNCE – B, OUNCE.
19 Vessel drawing out of foremost of seaports
KETCH – take Seaports from sKETCH.
20 One with terribly nice old folk
ICENI – I, (NICE)*.

50 comments on “Sunday Times 4942 by David McLean”

  1. My take on this at the time was that if you were “on a downer” you might drink to drown your sorrows?

    SD

    1. Thanks SD. I thought of this but the clue specifically refers to the person (rather than the situation or experience) being the downer. It turns out though (see below) that the word can indeed have this meaning.
  2. Thanks keriothe. I would have been faster if I had not thought of Moggie for the cat and if I’d put the i in its proper place in Iceni. I too liked Eyelid and am still squinting at Downer.
  3. I have a ? by BOOB TUBE, but as Keriothe says. DNK ECHINACEA, of course. DNK 7 as the AGE OF REASON. I wonder who came up with 7. (Three(ish) is when kids become capable of lying and pretending (as opposed to saying untrue things) and of attributing false beliefs to others.) At the time, I interpreted DOWNER as Keriothe does, and I can’t think of anything better, although I’d like to.
  4. EYELID, my LOI, took forever. Of course, Y is not at the start of an alphabet trawl if you do it the normal way, which doesn’t help. I was a bit surprised at “puss” for “face” but it wasn’t Anax so I didn’t let my mind go there. I remember it being a fun crossword, but when you solve on the screen it is hard to remember precisely what was good without solving it again…and life’s too short to be a neutrino.

    In the unlikely event that any neutrinos read this blog, would you like to say what the attraction is?

  5. My notes say “no real problems except for 4d and 22ac”.
    I’m with you, keriothe on DOWNER. I’m afraid I associate the word with Alexander Downer, the former Foreign Minister of Australia and High Commissioner in London.
    Thanks for BUFFO. Later on I realised there is such a thing as opera buffa.
    Thank you also, keriothe, for PLASTIC SURGEON. I had no idea puss was slang for face.
    Have we seen ECHINACEA recently?
    FOI: BARBICAN
    LOI: same as paulmcl, EYELID
    COD: AGE OF REASON. When is the official age when young people know it all?

    Edited at 2021-02-21 06:05 am (UTC)

  6. I took it that since neck, booze and down are all verbs meaning to drink, someone ‘necking booze’ might be said to be ‘downing’ it and is therefore in cryptic clue language a DOWNER. ‘Might’ and the question mark indicate the word probably doesn’t actually exist as an agent noun with this meaning.

    Edited at 2021-02-21 06:59 am (UTC)

  7. …is easier on paper. No time as I was watching cricket while solving. I also assumed that DOWNER is both a drinker and a clue going in that direction. I’ve never heard of BOOB TUBE as a word for the telly. COD LAMPSHADE for eyelid is clever and took a while to dawn on me after I’d biffed the answer. I liked MOON WALKER too. THE AGE OF REASON also took a while to emerge as the prospect of the The Seven Years War wouldn’t clear from my head. Thank you K and David.
  8. I wondered if in ‘Might I be’ the ‘I’ referred to 1 (which is a down clue)? Not sure.
  9. I started quickly on this and needed only eight after 22 minutes. Then I rushed to a finish in about half an hour; but I got 22a wrong. I remembered a word something like EREMIT which fitted. But I had no real idea about the lampshade; I may have been thinking of Eremite which is a hermit or recluse.
    Apart from that some enjoyable clues and some mysteries already mentioned like Boob Tube for TV and Downer.
    David
  10. Can anyone help me here? I expect I am being very dim, but can’t find any def of fit that could equal buff.
    TIA,
    Andyf
    1. Modern slang usage to describe someone to whom one is attracted, eg “he’s buff, she’s fit”.
    2. I’ve had this: you spend ages looking for something in the definitions of X that justifies an equivalence with Y, never thinking to look up the definition of Y, which turns out to be X.
      For BUFF Collins has ‘fit, attractive’, Lexico ‘(of a person or their body) in good physical shape with well-developed muscles’.
      1. Doh! Thanks people for the steer.
        On a different matter “puss” can = mouth, but not in my opinion face.
        Andyf
        1. According to Collins it only means ‘face’. Lexico has a broader definition – ‘a person’s face, mouth, or expression’ – so mouth is part of it but face still comes first.
            1. In the Sunday puzzles in particular it’s always worth checking Collins and Lexico because Peter Biddlecombe explicitly says they are his main references.
  11. ….and although I finished in 9:59 I wasn’t much enamoured of this. I didn’t understand THE AGE OF REASON, and to my mind a PLASTIC SURGEON deals with more than ones “puss”. I guessed that BOOB TUBE was a Stateside usage in its TV sense. MOONWALKER was wasted on me since I’d rather have my toenails pulled out with pliers than suffer Michael Jackson, and had no idea that he slid backwards. I just dismissed DOWNER as a weak clue.

    I would pay good money to have seen what Dorset Jimbo had to say about it ! I shall miss him.

    COD CRUISE

    Edited at 2021-02-21 11:03 am (UTC)

  12. I had the same reservations as many of you about DOWNER, but eventually decided it was to do with drinking and the fact it is a down clue. I hadn’t met the US term BOOB TUBE for telly, but knew the top. I was glad the plant was a hidden. MOONWALKER seemed obviously enough to be referring to MJ’s dance routine. EYELID took a while but I saw it eventually. LOI was BUFFO, where I flirted with Biffo, but then realised he was a bear in a different comic. 24:55. Thanks Harry and K.
  13. I don’t know why I didn’t see it last week (perhaps because it’s listed as an American usage) but one of the definitions of DOWNER in Collins is ‘a depressing experience, person, or situation’ (my emphasis). Someone necking booze might indeed be a DOWNER in that sense. I had only come across the word as a reference to an experience or situation, rather than a person, and that’s largely what the dictionaries say.

    Edited at 2021-02-21 11:21 am (UTC)

  14. 27.30 an enjoyable solve but a couple I was unsure about. DNK boob tube as an expression for idiot box in the US as opposed to just tube. Knew the Enlightenment age of reason but not the 7 year old child age of reason. Downer entered without full understanding and a shrug. Didn’t quite understand the puss bit of the plastic surgeon clue when solving. I liked the simplicity of eyelid, Harley Street and knockout.
    1. See above. I guess that one could have a “mouth job” just as well as a “nose job”?
      Andyf
      1. I think I gave myself too much credit in my comment. Although I said “Didn’t quite understand” what I really meant was “Didn’t understand”! I hadn’t got as far as wondering whether puss could mean mouth or face. It was more a case of seeing medical professional, a sense of something being improved and checkers, bunging it in and moving on a little dissatisfied that there was something there I hadn’t grasped while solving. According to the internet commissuroplasty does appear to be a thing though.
  15. I parsed this like Jackkt, and can’t for the life of me see how the clue could refer to the setter, as our spirits are certainly always lifted by his work, and it seems quite the arbitrary attribution, out of thin air… why?! It would much more readily refer to the direction of the clue, which didn’t even occur to me, being satisfied with remembering the relevant sense of “neck.”
  16. Sorry, wasn’t logged in. On my phone.
    To accommodate a second CD here, referring to the clue, it would seem that “one” must do double duty. Just sayin’…

    Edited at 2021-02-21 02:55 pm (UTC)

    1. I don’t think ‘I’ here is a reference to the setter, just to the notional downer in the clue. I’ve come to the conclusion that the clue is &Lit: the whole clue refers both to:
      1. A person who is depressing to be around. Here the words ‘might I be’ are necessary because such a person might be drowning their sorrows, but not necessarily, and people who are drinking aren’t necessarily depressing to be around. But they can (might) be.
      2. A person who is downing lots of drinks. Here the words ‘might I be’ are arguably surplus to requirements, but you can down things other than booze so whilst the surface is a little more contrived it still works.
      The more I’ve thought about this clue the more I’ve come to like it!
      1. Whether the self referred to as “I” is assumed to be the setter is immaterial. It’s the person drinking, in any case, who might be on a downer—though there’s no reason to take that for granted—but I see no reason at all to assume that he, she, they might *be* a downer.

        Edited at 2021-02-21 04:13 pm (UTC)

        1. But a person on a downer is a downer, according to the definition in Collins. I wasn’t aware of this usage, which was the root of my problems with this clue.
          1. I don’t see that in Collins online.
            I am familiar with downer in the sense of a depressing person (a definition with which I am familiar; cf. Debbie Downer, Rachel Drach SNL character) or experience, etc.
            I don’t see that it can mean someone who is depressed. Not exactly the same thing.
            But maybe Collins in print is more extensive.

            Edited at 2021-02-21 04:53 pm (UTC)

            1. It’s in the online Collins, but as an American usage, so you have to scroll down a bit more.
              1. It’s not on this page,
                https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/downer
                and I don’t know any other.
                For some reason, there are two sections for American English, but both are short.

                downer

                in American English

                (ˈdaʊnər )

                NOUN Slang

                1. any depressant drug, as a tranquilizer or barbiturate

                2. US

                a depressing experience, person, etc.

                downer

                in American English

                (ˈdaunər)

                NOUN

                1. informal

                a. a depressant or sedative drug, esp. a barbiturate

                b. a depressing experience, person, or situation

                2. Animal Husbandry

                an old or diseased animal, esp. one that cannot stand up

                    1. But that’s what the clue is driving at: a person drowning their sorrows (because on a downer) might also be a downer, i.e. depressing to be around.
                      1. I cannot get all that out of it, seems a stretch. And with the versatile “one” doing double, overlapping duty. Occam’s razor, don’t need that hypothesis.
                        1. The only reason I can is by following the Collins definition. I’m with you in the sense that this all sounds wrong to me, based on any use of ‘downer’ I’ve ever heard. But I respect the lexicographers at Collins enough to take their word for it!
                        2. I have no problem with that Collins definition, as I said. It just doesn’t seem to me to be evoked by this clue or indicated by the clue’s structure. That’s all. A depressed person isn’t necessarily a downer, a depressing person, but that’s only additional to asking “one” to do too much.
                        3. OK then I just don’t agree I guess. ‘Might I be a person who is drinking too much?’ Seems OK as a definition of ‘downer’ in the sense of ‘a depressing person to be around’.
                        4. I don’t see any implication of “too much”; you can neck one pint, no?
                          Ignoring my illusory problem with “one” (shall we?), if “neck” meant drink to drunkenness, it would still be a stretch, methinks, to assume that the toper didn’t just celebrate too much AND that his/her bad vibes brought everyone down.

                          Edited at 2021-02-21 09:24 pm (UTC)

                        5. OK the ‘too much’ was my own invention. But even without the implication of excess, ‘might I be a person drinking’ is fine as a (cryptic) definition of a ‘downer’. ‘Necking’ does contain the implication of at least speed, and I would argue in this case – ‘necking booze’ – also excess, or at least quantity.
  17. I liked DOWNER and for me it is a simple cryptic DD of someone who drinks and a down clue. And before coming here was my clear COD. But what do I know?!!!

    But defeated by the TUBE and BUFFO. Top as in item of clothing rather than the other meanings has eluded me before. No doubt it will do so again. Not 100% sure I equated the answer with TV in any event.

    Liked EYELID and AGE OF REASON

    Thanks setter and our persevering blogger.

  18. DNF in 36 minutes, having BOFFO instead of BUFFO and thinking it might be British slang. The COED tells me it means successful and is American slang (but not mine, apparently). I wouldn’t have known BUFF = fit anyway, and I didn’t think of opera buffo or I would perhaps have changed my entry. The rest was very easy, apart from the ubiquitous questions about DOWNER.
  19. Yes, the cryptic does indeed mean a person drinking!
    And I don’t think there’s anything else. I thik my message just above (let’s call it my penultimate on this) summed up why most accurately.
    1. OK perhaps we just have to part in mutual incomprehension here. Of course a person drinking is not necessarily miserable to be around, but they might (as the clues says) be. I hope we will get the opportunity to discuss this in greater detail in person at Pete’s before too long!
      1. It gets me down that we can’t right now. (Fortunately, my bar is stocked. Ha.)
        Paul and I had a Zoom rendezvous a couple months ago. If we could find a suitable transatlantic time for some of us to meet… 
        1. I would love to do that.
          My cellar is always very well stocked. In fact I have just been through a fairly extensive exercise in which a local auction company removed a few hundred bottles I don’t want to make room. It’s going to be very interesting to see what they fetch.
    1. Harry is the nickname (or possibly the real name) of David McLean, the setter.
  21. Thanks Harry and keriothe
    Done in three shortish sittings as I could sneak the time and taking a combined 39 minutes. There were some new terms for me THE AGE OF REASON (from a canonical law perspective), BOOB TUBE (rather than just TUBE for television) and BARBICAN (as the complex housing theatres in London). Got the context of DOWNER straight away – ‘necking a bottle of beer’ was a common term in much younger days – still needed the discussion here to associate it with the down clue context.
    Thought both 16a and 18a were very clever and it took a while to reconcile ‘puss’ with a face at 7d.
    Finished down the bottom with MOONWALKER (which I could never do!), KETCH and THINKING as the last few in.

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