Sunday Times 4888 by David McLean

Author   keriothePosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
20:40. I have left the blog very late this week (I’m typing this on Saturday evening) so I am short of time and don’t remember much about this puzzle. I obviously found it hard but going through the clues now they all seem entirely straightforward. This is often the mark of a very good puzzle and I do remember enjoying this one a lot.

Either I’m missing something (very likely) or there is something funny going on with 12ac. It looks to me like setter and/or editor couldn’t decide between two clues and decided to go with both.

Definitions are underlined, anagrams indicated like (TIHS)*, anagram indicators are in italics.

Across
1 Fruit rot can be a little gross
PLUMPISH – PLUM, PISH.
5 Empty one container into another
VACANT – VA(CAN)T.
9 What could make those kissing turn red?
LIPSTICK – a barely cryptic definition, but it still took me a while to see.
10 Horse leading woman away from her end
HEROIN – HEROINe. ‘Horse’ being a slang term for the drug seen quite regularly in crosswords.
11 Feel bad about sending off one right winger
EGRET – rEGRET. There are two Rs in ‘regret’ but you only have to remove (send off) one of them.
12 Horror of rider failing to start with horse in trial
NIGHTMARE – kNIGHT, MARE. There seem to be two clues combined here: ‘horror of rider failing to start with horse’ and ‘rider failing to start with horse in trial’. I wonder if this is an editing mishap?
14 Very happy nun in cooled pants
ON CLOUD NINE – (NUN IN COOLED)*.
18 Turn and board coach with second to go
ENTERTAINER – ENTER, TrAINER.
21 Ailing leader is dosing up, because of this?
DIAGNOSIS – (Ailing, IS DOSING)*. Semi-&Lit. Nice clue.
23 A quiet residential road in Settle
CLOSE – DD. Initially reading ‘Seattle’ didn’t help me here. Settle/CLOSE as in a transaction.
24 Nurses must protect limb that’s turned red
ENGELS – ENS (EN is enrolled nurse) containing a reversal of LEG.
25 Householder with Hoover, perhaps, but no power
RESIDENT – pRESIDENT.
26 Powerful people settle back to ring Brown
TITANS – TAN contained in a reversal of SIT.
27 Do nut at working on ultimately useless project
STAND OUT – uselesS, (DO NUT AT)*.

Down
1 Kiss and cuddle? That’ll get everyone in bed!
PALLET – P(ALL)ET.
2 Drugs take an edge off of evening meals
UPPERS – sUPPERS.
3 Fancy outfit rep presented in a new way
PETIT FOUR – (OUTFIT REP)*.
4 Back girl describing Conservative as “inferior”
SECOND CLASS – SECOND, (C)LASS.
6 A man’s shadow?
AGENT – A GENT.
7 A nameless visionary with a distinctive nose?
AROMATIC – A, ROMAnTIC.
8 Tough youth grasping tattooist messed around
TINKERED – T(INKER)ED. The definition of TEDs as variously delinquent or, as here, tough, is not universally appreciated.
13 Awfully huge rodents one found in a tent?
GROUNDSHEET – (HUGE RODENTS)*.
15 Leadership speech full of empty rage
DIRECTION – DI(RagE)CTION.
16 A lazy person might be really tired
DEADBEAT – or DEAD BEAT.
17 Hand over drugs?
STRAIGHT – if you are ‘over drugs’, you might have given them up, in which case you’d be…
19 Don’t bother with warning shot
FOREGO – FORE (warning), GO (shot).
20 Go and have some food in a moment
BEAT IT – B(EAT)IT.
22 Material helping to make many longboats
NYLON – contained in ‘many longboats’.

37 comments on “Sunday Times 4888 by David McLean”

  1. I have a double question mark against NIGHTMARE, keriothe. I thought it was an odd clue, too, but couldn’t put my finger on it. Thanks for your explanation, which I think is a good one.
    COD to STRAIGHT. Double tick for that one!
  2. I don’t recall anything particularly difficult about this puzzle; I think it was just difficult generally. I had a note at 12ac, ‘in trial?’, and am glad to see I’m not alone. I suspect Keriothe has it right. DNK ‘fancy’, but no big deal. POI DEADBEAT, LOI STRAIGHT. I suppose I knew the ‘off-drugs’ meaning, although I’ve never used it, but the ‘hetero’ meaning has crowded it out of my mental lexicon.
  3. is a card hand in poker etc.(17dn) over drugs STRAIGHT DD

    FOI 27ac STANDOUT

    LOI 17dn STRAIGHT

    COD 18ac ENTERTAINER

    WOD 14ac ON CLOUD NINE

    Edited at 2020-02-09 06:37 am (UTC)

    1. I thought ‘over drugs’ was very slightly cryptic (since it’s a little oblique and the setter is trying to fool us into reading ‘over’ with ‘hand’) so I wrote it up as wordplay but I suppose it’s a pretty, er, STRAIGHT definition so I agree that you could call the clue a DD.

      Edited at 2020-02-09 10:02 am (UTC)

      1. I would expect the word CLEAN for over drugs.The Stones know all about this:
        Ronnie Wood attended rehab for a time in 2005 and returned to work with the band a few months later, although he wound up falling off the wagon afterwards.

        “I do remember going on stage clean for the first time,”

  4. Same queries and MERs as others, not knowing that ‘straight’ had drug connotations – I think traditionally being ‘straight’ is desisting from previous criminal activity as in the title of the Ronnie Barker sitcom ‘Going Straight’, the sequel to ‘Porridge’.

    Wasn’t sure about ‘shadow = AGENT’ and couldn’t find any support for it until this in Chambers which just about gets there: 8 a person following another closely and secretively, especially a spy or detective.

    1. I’ve always taken ‘straight’ in the post-porridge sense to go with ‘go’: “I’ve done time, but I’ve gone straight” (not “I’m straight”); I have no idea if that’s idiosyncratic with me, although the only examples ODE gives are of that form. ODE doesn’t give ‘off drugs’ as a meaning, although no doubt Chambers does.
      1. Collins has this meaning: ‘not using narcotics; not addicted’. It also agrees with you that the post-porridge sense requires ‘go’ to the extent that it gives the phrase its own separate entry.
        1. Sorry, another different view: both Oxford and Collins have “honest” as a meaning of straight, and “honest” as an opposite of “criminal” (or “crooked”) seems plausible. I think the reason for “go straight” having its own def is that unless it’s part of a longer phrase like the nicely perverse “go straight to jail” (which apparently replaces “go directly to jail” in some versions of Monopoly), “go straight” only means “become honest”, not anything else like “cease to be curved”.
          1. Perhaps. It occurs to me that the opposite of straight is bent, which can mean crooked, criminal (not to mention its more offensive meaning), which perhaps supports this view.
  5. Since posting this blog I keeping getting a banner ad from a company called J&DC Enterprise Limited: ‘Get your pallets/parcels delivered quickly’. I want to call them and tell them that these pallets are beds.

    Edited at 2020-02-09 08:24 am (UTC)

  6. 43 minutes. I also suspect that having the recurrent nightmare is for the reasons suggested by K. STRAIGHT was my LOI, when such a hand in cards dawned on me and then a simple twist of fate convinced me that going straight could also mean becoming clean. I hate drug euphemisms, as I’ve said several times before here. And it was nice to be reminded of Connie Francis and LIPSTICK on your collar. CODs jointly to DEADBEAT and ENGELS on this otherwise excellent puzzle. Thank you K and David.

    Edited at 2020-02-09 08:10 am (UTC)

  7. I went through this gentle crossword very quickly and wrote ‘triple’ next to NIGHTMARE and thought no more of it. I now see K’s hypothesis and think he is correct. I also checked with my un-goddaughters and they confirmed that male and female horses take part in 3 day eventing ie trials.
  8. I have “about 1 1/2 hours. HARD” scrawled on my sheet, so clearly I didn’t find this a doddle. No question marks, though, not even on 12a, so I clearly didn’t spot anything awry at the time. FOI 3d PETIT FOUR, LOI 17 STRAIGHT, where I enjoyed “over drugs” once I finally saw it.

    At 6d, I was helped by “shadow” being the general codename for all senior “field executives” of the Bureau, the elite and deniable British intelligence agency in Adam Hall’s Quiller novels.

  9. 12A is as intended. It is possible to interpret “horse in trial” as a slightly overspecific indication for mare, but the intended idea was that “horror” and “trial” were both definitions. The fact that you can drop either definition and get a clue with a single def is just coincidence.
    1. The only thing that distinguishes a mare from a horse is its sex, so ‘horse in trial’ to define it strikes me as extremely odd. On this basis why not ‘horse in hot-air balloon’? But I suppose if ‘trial’ is a definition then you can just read ‘horse’ as indicating ‘mare’.
      ‘Triple definition one of which is cryptic’ is certainly an innovation. I’m not sure I like it but I can’t quite put my finger on why. Perhaps it’s just because in this clue you don’t need both of the definitions for the surface reading.

      Edited at 2020-02-09 10:02 am (UTC)

      1. I don’t understand the “one of which is cryptic” point. As your report says, the indication between the defs is for (k)NIGHT,MARE. That said, why not two defs plus a cryptic def, if we can fairly routinely have def+cryptic def and def+def+def?
        1. Sorry, sloppy use of words. Three indications, one of which is cryptic. Triple or even occasionally quadruple definitions are quite common but two straight definitions and a cryptic indication is pretty unusual. As you say though, why not? And as I said I think the reason I don’t like it here is that one or other of the definitions is superfluous.

          Edited at 2020-02-09 10:54 am (UTC)

  10. 29:48. It says “Tricky!” at the top of my copy. I was another puzzled by the “in trial” at the end of 12A. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a double definition with a wordplay inside. One to remember if Pete says it was as intended. AGENT for “shadow” seemed like a bit of a leap of faith, but I liked PLUMPISH, DIAGNOSIS and FOREGO. Thanks David and K.
    1. I’m as sure as I can be (without finding an example) that I have seen such a clue before, and ones with two versions of the wordplay.
  11. FOI was ON CLOUD NINE but I quickly came down to earth. My notes say I had 8 left at 2.50pm. I came back for a final session and finished at 6.15pm. Last in were AGENT (same queries as above),AROMATIC and HEROIN (both unparsed). Also troubled by NIGHTMARE. DNK this meaning of PALLET.Also I had put PLUMPEST at 1a which was an error under exam conditions.
    Was very pleased to get DEADBEAT and ENGELS. A puzzle which inspired mixed emotions. David
  12. I cruised through this one in 28:42. STRAIGHT consumed some thinking time, but didn’t cause me any angst. Didn’t know PALLET for bed. I didn’t lose any sleep over NIGHTMARE. Did wonder about AGENT for shadow. Nice puzzle. Thanks Dean and K.
  13. DNF. I found this quite tough and bungled my LOI 6dn through impatience. Abert anyone? No. Thought not. Like others I didn’t fully understand how 12ac worked. I liked 25ac, 13dn and 17dn but COD to the irresistible very happy nun in her cooled pants.
  14. I consider the former a misspelling of the latter, at least when given the sense in this clue. Any competent copy editor is going to change “forego” to “forgo” when it is used with this sense.
    1. I can see why you’d do that but all the dictionaries have the former as an alternative spelling of the latter. I suspect it’s one of those mistakes that have ceased to be mistakes by dint of use.
      1. Yeah, I realize that, of course. We eschew “alternative” spellings where I work. And, obviously, “foregone” is related to “forego” and not to “forgo,” which is not an alternative spelling of “forego.”

        1. Indeed. Both come from Old English, but with different roots, so as a matter of stylistic preference I can understand wanting to retain the difference. And any publication will have to pick one! It is just that though – a stylistic preference – and not in any meaningful way ‘correct’.
  15. Only a few days behind the rest of you, using the reprinted version in the Oz newspaper. Two kissing clues seen early at 1d & 9a led to the expectation of a Valentine’s Day theme, but no. More drugs than love!
    LOI ‘ forego ‘ , staring blankly at the crossers -O- E-O , and suffering Tony Sever’s vocalophobia, with an alphabet trawl yielding Bolero, Toledo, Soweto & Yodelo ( a Swiss warning call?), until PDM. All correct finally in 27mins.
    1. See Collins (‘a short theatrical act, esp in music hall, cabaret, etc’) or Lexico (‘a performer giving a short performance’).

      Edited at 2020-02-23 08:01 pm (UTC)

  17. A Ted is a Teddy boy, the name given to young thugs in the 50s (their trademark dress code was drainpipe trousers, ducks arse hair cuts and crepe soled shoes) but I doubt it was known outside Britain and Ireland. Saw a Canadian TV interview from that time with Irish playwright Brendan Behan. He mentioned a Teddy boy and the interviewer had no idea what he was talking about.

    Tom. Toronto.

  18. After completing the above I dismally failed the next week on Weekend Australian 1193

    I am trying to find the solution to Crossword 1193 in Weekend Australian Feb 22/23rd I expected it would be Sunday Times 4889 but it wasn’t and I can’t find it.

    Answer to 1 across is GARCON if that can identify it for anyone. Does anyone know the Sunday Times number for this crossword?

    Cheers . . .Ray Scott

    1. There’s a search function at the top right of the screen in LiveJournal which is handy for finding specific answers like this. Sunday Times puzzle 4560 has GARCON at 1ac but it’s from 2013. I don’t know if the Australian publishes older puzzles like that but there aren’t any other obvious candidates as far as I can see..

      Edited at 2020-02-28 12:22 pm (UTC)

      1. To : Keriothe

        You’ve hit the jackpot, I keyed into it and that’s the one. . . that was it! One of Dean Mayer’s . . . .Thanks

        My only worry now is . . .what will this week’s be (29/2) I enjoy the comments and discussion as much as the crossword.

        Ray Scott

        1. Pick one of the more obscure answers and use the search function. You should find it. If you comment on an old blog the author (which may or may not be me) should get a notification.
  19. Thanks David and keriothe
    Found this typically demanding from this setter, taking just under the hour across three short sessions and a longer one over lunch.
    In the Australian edition the ‘in trial’ part of the clue was on a second line, so used the first part to solve the clue and must’ve just skipped over the rest.
    Had to go down to NYLON to get a start on the puzzle and eventually wound my way back up to the NW corner where the tricky cd LIPSTICK, the straightforwardly anagrammed, but unknowingly (by me) defined PETIT FOUR and the simples EGRET the last few in.
    Often our syndicated edition will publish a very old Sunday Times puzzle when there is a special larger puzzle published over there. They try to fit the Times cryptic, two sudoku games and the Sunday Times puzzle on a single page and suspect that they can’t fit the larger grid in.

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