Quick Cryptic 2897 by Orpheus

 

For me this was a puzzle that was harder to parse than it was to solve just from the definition and crossing letters. A good example of this was my last in 4d, which was a matter of filling in the blanks with all the crossing letters in place. I bunged in the answer to 21d without much thought, but a few alternative explanations occurred to me on writing up the blog and I’ll be interested to see what others think.

A good QC level in my book, although I’ve only ever seen 6d in crossword land and I was close to needing Cole Porter’s advice for 5d. Finished in 07:29.

Thanks to Orpheus

Definitions underlined in bold, letter deletions and letters in the wordplay not appearing in the answer indicated by strikethrough

Across
1 This writer’s eating cold ham, say, and spicy pie filling (9)
MINCEMEATMINE (‘This writer’s’) containing (‘eating’) C (‘cold’) then MEAT (‘ham, say’)

Not an easy one to start with. Several possibilities for ‘This writer’s” and the filling for an eg cottage pie isn’t necessarily ‘spicy’. However the MINCEMEAT sense being referred to is the filling for the mince pie Christmas treats, a spiced mixture of sugar and chopped dry fruits but, despite the name, not usually meat.

6 Young boxer perhaps, and what a swindler may sell him? (3)
PUP – Cryptic hint from the expression “To sell a PUP“, meaning to “inveigle someone into a specious bad bargain” (Chambers) which sounds better than the more prosaic “to swindle”.

PUG was my first thought, covering both the canine and pugilistic angles, but it clearly doesn’t work. My COD.

8 The Times initially led by society girl on list of aristocracy (7)
DEBRETTThe Times (‘The Times initially’) following (‘led by’) DEB (‘society girl’) and RE (‘on’)

I thought it was “Debrett’s”, but the non-genitive form is apparently OK as an abbreviation for “Debrett’s Peerage”. From Wikipedia, first published as “The New Peerage” in 1769 by John Almon, a publisher for whom John Debrett worked. Looking at their website, they still sell various handbooks and etiquette guides but not a “Peerage and Baronetage”. The last hard copy edition was published in 2019 and the online “Peerage and Baronetage” database is only available by subscription.

I wonder if anyone here cracks a mention?

9 Subject of article by yours truly (5)
THEMETHE (‘article’) ME (‘yours truly’)
10 Small detached territory one’s hired out (5)
ISLETIS (‘one’s’) LET (‘hired out’)
12 Girl and boy digesting university yearbook (6)
ANNUALANN (‘Girl’) AL (‘boy’) containing (‘digesting’) U (‘university’)
14 Port boss beginning to haunt bower and flowing stream (7,6)
HARBOUR MASTERHaunt (‘beginning to haunt’) ARBOUR (‘bower’) then anagram (‘flowing’) of STREAM
16 Food flavouring that’s red-hot but sounds cool? (6)
CHILLI – Aural wordplay (‘sounds’) of CHILLY (‘cool’)
17 Live among His Majesty’s wives and concubines (5)
HAREMARE (‘Live’) contained in (‘among’) HM (‘His Majesty’)
19 It goes round and round and to and fro (5)
ROTORROTOR is a palindrome, ie a word reading the same going backwards and forwards (‘to and fro’)
20 Try a casual worker in borders of Tibet (7)
ATTEMPTA (‘a’) then TEMP (‘casual worker’) contained in (‘in’) TibeT (‘borders of Tibet’)
22 Bill’s companion? That’s a surprise (3)
COO – ‘Bill’s companion?’ as a cryptic hint. From the term “Bill and COO“, meaning “to behave or talk in a very loving or sentimental way” (ODE).
23 Spring bloom bringing Lowry fame somehow (9)
MAYFLOWER – Anagram (‘somehow’) of LOWRY FAME
Down
1 Power to restrict terrible din when many are asleep (8)
MIDNIGHTMIGHT (‘Power’) containing (‘to restrict’) anagram (‘terrible’) of DIN
2 In Paris, good backing for a VIP (3)
NOBBON (‘In Paris, good’) reversed (‘backing’)
3 Occurrence involving archdeacon in film (5)
EVENTVEN (‘archdeacon’) contained in (‘in’) ET (‘film’)

Collins has VEN as an abbreviation for VENERABLE as specifically applying to ‘archdeacon’ in the C of E.

4 Special pointer’s last to index array in a different order (13)
EXTRAORDINARY – Anagram (‘in a different order’) of pointeR (‘pointer’s last’) and TO INDEX ARRAY

Definitely a biff. A few potential anagram indicators and it was difficult to work out the letters and words going to make up the anagram.

5 Giant initially impressing a Shakespearean fairy (7)
TITANIATITAN (‘Giant’) then Impressing (‘initially impressing’) A (‘a’)

The Queen of the fairies in “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”. I spent a while trying to make ‘impressing’ a containment indicator.

6 Inferior writer, one sampling Edgar Allan? (9)
POETASTER – Cryptic hint. A POE TASTER could be (‘one sampling Edgar Allan’ (Poe))

The etymology for this word was not in my ken, but looking it up, the OED notes it as being used by Erasmus in 1521, with the first quotation in English in 1601. Derived from “poet” and the suffix “-aster”, the latter with the sense of “expressing incomplete resemblance, hence generally pejorative” (OED 2nd edition).  I like the “a mere versifier” OED def.

7 Not many reported? Thank goodness for that (4)
PHEW – Aural wordplay (‘reported?’) of FEW (‘Not many’)
11 River in US city slum moving fairly slowly (9)
LARGHETTOR (‘River’) contained in (‘in’) LA (‘US city’) and GHETTO (‘slum’)

‘Moving fairly slowly’ in a musical sense.

13 Sponsor distributing more port (8)
PROMOTER – Anagram (‘distributing’) of MORE PORT

I think of a PROMOTER more as someone who publicises and a ‘sponsor’ as someone who provides financial backing for eg a sports event, but there is some crossover between the two roles and an organisation or individual can do both. Orpheus also has support from the dictionaries; for sense 2 for PROMOTER, Collins has “a person who helps to organize (sic), develop or finance an undertaking”.

15 Fuel container lido developed? Strange (3,4)
OIL DRUM – Anagram (‘developed?’) of LIDO then RUM (‘Strange’)
17 Having high temperature, the Spanish lodging-place (5)
HOTELHOT (‘Having high temperature’) EL (‘the Spanish’)
18 Dangerous reptile caught enormous bird in legend (4)
CROCC (‘caught’) ROC (‘enormous bird in legend’)

ROC as a giant bird of prey originating in Middle Eastern mythology, mentioned in stories from the “One Thousand and One Nights”.

21 Seagull almost makes noise like cat (3)
MEWMEWs (‘almost makes noise like cat’) or perhaps MEWls (‘almost makes noise like cat’)

MEW (also MEW gull) for ‘Seagull’. The ‘makes’, rather than ‘make’, suggests the alternative parsing is less likely, as ‘almost’ usually indicates the deletion of only one letter.

Tricky, as the ‘makes noise like cat’ could be referring to either MEWL (verb) or MEW (noun or verb) and I wondered if this might be the def. However, for ‘Seagull almost’ to be wordplay, ‘almost’ would have to be acting as a deletion indicator for not just a single letter but a separate word, ie MEW GULL. I’ve tied my neurons in a knot about this one though and may have ended up with the wrong end of the stick.

On edit: Thanks to those who have commented below about this and pointed out a few possibilities which had not occurred to me.

87 comments on “Quick Cryptic 2897 by Orpheus”

  1. Biffed MINCEMEAT & EXTRAORDINARY. I don’t see any possibility for MEW than MEWS minus S: as BR notes, ‘seagull almost’ won’t work, nor will MEWLS minus LS. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen ‘almost’ indicating deletion of more than one letter. 5:30.

  2. I found myself parsing a lot of this one after the fact, with a number of answers coming from the definition and crossing letters, as BR says. Had never heard of a mew gull, but MEW was obvious anyway. Thanks BR. Time: 13:39

      1. Thanks. Given that SMEW is a duck, and there’s a mew gull, I think I prefer the interpretation that it’s MEWS (‘makes noise like cat’) minus the S (‘almost’), the whole meaning ‘seagull’.

  3. I’m with Kevin on MEW. ‘Makes noise like a cat’ is mews, and almost means chop the S off. Maybe. Some tricky moments and a few Hail Mary biffs on the way to 7.40. Fun QC, thanks BR and Orpheus.

      1. Thanks. My knowledge of all things ornithological is skimpy and I suspect much less than yours. A few sites do describe a SMEW as a “sea duck” which to me would do for a ‘seabird’ so yes, sMEW for ‘Seabird almost’ as the wordplay and ‘noise like a cat’ as the def is one potential parsing. However, as noted below in response to Bryan Lawson, ‘almost’ usually indicates a last letter, rather than a first letter, deletion.

  4. Im surprised some of the early reported times look quite quick. I thought this was a toughie notwithstanding I was pretty much on par at 11:09 but felt I had overperformed. Had NHO POETASTER but it was gettable enough from wordplay. Didn’t understand MEW and it seems like that has at least caused some consternation. LOI was COO again a hit and hope. I think LARGHETTO and DEBRETT have both appeared in some form or other either in here or the 15×15 in recent times?

    Cheers Bletchley – one of those days wher ethe blog is indispensable.

    1. We had LARGHETTO on Jan 6th from Bjorn with “Got lather worked up somewhat slowly (9)” down in the SW corner of the puzzle. Today’s clue was kinder because that is not a word you want to unscramble from an anagram if you don’t know it

  5. Seven on the first pass of acrosses and then good progress on then downs but I was still left with some tricky mopping up. POETASTER was last in. I’m certain I’ve seen it before but couldn’t bring it easily to mind. I had to battle to get LARGHETTO. TITANIA feels like it should be GK but I had to parse carefully to get it – Macbeth, King Lear, Othello and Romeo & Juliet are the only four plays I read on the way to A level English. NHO MEW but not much more reckoning to do with only the middle letter missing. All green in a rare sub-10 at 9.49.

    1. I’m astonished you managed A Level on just 4 Shakespeares. I had to read at least that many to get as far as O Level Eng Lit (grade 5 where 1 is good and 6 is the worst pass). I never wanted to do Eng Lit anyway….

    2. Kinda famous, A Midsummer Night’s Dream has appeared fairly regularly over the years. It was even mentioned on Only Connect last night!
      The quote “Ill-met by moonlight, proud Titania” stays lurking in my mind for some reason.

  6. 9 minutes. No problems other than my first thought whenever I see the chestnut “Bill’s companion” or similar in a clue, is BEN, and then I remember the answer is COO. I fight against it, but it’s no use. Just serves to illustrate the power of TV on the mind of a 5-year-old!

  7. Neve4 heard of poetaster. A fun puzzle and I wonder if Mew has anything to do with a type of plane a seagull Percival mew.

    1. There was a Percival Gull (first flown in 1932 and flown by Jean Batten, Charles Kingsford-Smith and Amy Johnson among others) and a few years later a Percival Mew Gull, a racing version first flown in 1934. Yes, I’m sure they were named after the seagull.

  8. A decent romp through this one having spent the first minute looking at 1a then moving on.

    Breeze blocked by NHO poetaster, but having stared at the clue and the crossers we plugged it in with little hope of success and got a nice surprise. All done for a very quick 13.22

    I see from Jack it’s a chestnut but COD here to coo, and yes Ben was the first thing to come to mind, followed by Ted.

    I thought a smew might be some kind of sea bird so we passed mew that way, although I now see it’s a duck, oops!

    Thanks BR and Orpheus

  9. 6:37. i was puzzled about the seagull too, it‘s Möwe in German so I wondered if there could be a related old English word going mew-

  10. Some tricky vocab/GK but all gettable due to the quality of the clueing.

    NHO/forgotten LARGHETTO and POETASTER, I wanted COO to be Ted but I vaguely remembered it from a previous appearance. A careless biff of DEBRETs caused me problems as did a typo in TITANIA.

    Crossed the line with LOI POETASTER in 7.13.
    Thanks to BR and Orpheus

  11. 10:01, but despite the fast finish (for me), I was vaguely unsatisfied, as this was quite the biff-fest with several only parsed after entry. MINCEMEAT and POETASTER the L2I, both needed all the checkers – I don’t think I’ve ever met the latter in real life.

    Many thanks BR for the blog
    Cedric

  12. 08:21. Fairly smooth biff-fest – I didn’t bother to full parse quite a lot of the clues which (this time) paid off. NHO POETASTER though I must have seen it before. Good puzzle. Thank you both!

  13. From MINCEMEAT to MAYFLOWER in 05:14 for a sub-K and a Red Letter Day. Yippee. Only hesitated over ISLET and MEW.

    I once used POETASTER in a letter to Private Eye (as part of a description of Geoffrey Hill’s fanclub); they removed it from the letter as printed. When I asked why they said they assumed it was a typo, not a real word!

    Many thanks Orpheus and Bletchers.

  14. 13:58
    Seemed hard work, never got much momentum. Not sure of ending of POETASTER(that’s tough vocab, barely heard of) and had DEBRETS, and COR (surprise!) as well.

  15. 6:54 (death of King Anna of East Anglia, in battle against Penda of Mercia)

    I would have been quicker, if I had not spent time puzzling about how MEW worked, having never heard of the seagulls.

    Considered BEN and TED before spotting COO.

    Thanks BR and Orpheus

  16. 3:32. After getting only 2/3 the across clues on a first read through, the downs and rest went straight in. LOI HARBOUR MASTER. Luckily, I never thought of BEN or TED for 22A. Thanks Orpheus and BR.

  17. From MINCEMEAT to DEBRETT in 7:34. I was slow on the unknowns POETASTER, LARGHETTO and MEW and had to rely on the solid word play and checkers. I biffed EXTRAORDINARY and COO was remembered from a previous QC. Thanks all.

  18. 23mins which is fast for me.
    Started off really slowly but soon speeded up and I started to enjoy it. Another one who initially thought Bill’s companion was Ben. NHO Mew for gull but it had to be this.
    LOI Larghetto.
    COD Poetaster.
    Thanks to Orpheus and BR.

  19. 10:19 for the solve. Agree with BR’s comment about easier to solve than parse. NHO PUP=swindle, POETASTER, MEW=seagull. Remember a big discussion last year about Bill and COO. While I knew DEBRETT’s, I missed the RE=ON wordplay so that went in at the end with fingers crossed.

    1. I just pipped you by seconds at the finish today. It’s getting much tighter lately- I’ll have to up my game, no more tea and washroom breaks mid-solve!

      1. That’s fighting talk! Sounds like I’m going to have to stop doing the rounds of press-ups and sit-ups between clues … 😜

  20. 19 mins…

    Fingers were crossed for 6dn “Poetaster” as I didn’t know the meaning. Similarly, I didn’t the know the gull for 21dn “Mew” – and nearly put “Mow” (which kind of sounds like Miaow”). The rest went in steadily, although I agree that I saw 4dn “Extraordinary” well before I parsed it.

    FOI – 7dn “Phew”
    LOI – 6dn “Poetaster”
    COD – 11dn “Larghetto”

    Thanks as usual!

  21. Yes, ok! Bower = ARBOUR was a big ask but fortunately it didn’t matter. NHO POETASTER but Mrs M had (how do you pronounce it, please? I think TAST as in ‘apple’ with stress there, but we’re not sure). Neither of us have HO Bill and COO, but had to be. LOI LARGHETTO (again?! we had it only a few days ago), together with COO (changed from COR). Thanks BR, I see it now, MEW almost = MEWs.

  22. I thought this was a good QC despite some of the reservations expressed above. I moved around the grid picking off the easy ones (as always) and then biffed (and parsed) many answers with the assistance of crossers, especially LARGHETTO and EXTRAORDINARY (nice clues). NHO of POETASTER (but the clueing made it inevitable), hesitated over COO. I had no problem with MEW – Seagull = MEW and almost makes noise like a cat = MEW(s).
    A relaxed 13.02 – more enjoyment and less mad rushing today.
    Thanks to both.

  23. A very quick solve for me (16:32), mainly because several answers were definitions, parsable afterwards. Biffed LARGHETTO and POETASTER (vaguely remembered).

  24. 4:58

    Bunged in EXTRAORDINARY without checking the anagrist, and didn’t know what MEW (or any extension of it) would have to do with a seagull, other than the noise one would make. Didn’t think of BEN or TED as already had the C from CROC. LOI LARGHETTO.

    Thanks Bletch and Orpheus

  25. Finished this one virtually without pausing, and little enough parsing. No probs with POETASTER or anything else.

    I didn’t notice the time taken but it felt very quick, probably the fastest yet. A pleasant change after some recent DNFs.

    Thanks to both.

  26. I was totally on the setters wavelength with this one, finishing in 5.32. Like others I’ve never come across POETASTER , but it was generously clued. My only real hold up was my LOI EXTRAORDINARY where I needed all the checkers to solve it, oh and possibly DEBRETT where I doubted my spelling as I expected it to end with an S.

    1. Collins:

      in British English

      mew
      (mjuː IPA Pronunciation Guide)
      verb
      1. (intransitive)
      (esp of a cat) to make a characteristic high-pitched cry
      noun
      2. such a sound

    2. Possibly and I should have thought of it, but in that case MEW for ‘almost makes noise like cat’ would have to be MEoWs which is less likely, as ‘almost’ usually indicates a last letter deletion, not a letter in the middle of the word and the last letter as well.

  27. NHO POETASTER. Thought 22A must be COO but never seen it meaning an expression of surprise. Otherwise very straightforward and enjoyable. Was expecting a musical clue in an Orpheus QC, so a bit surprised that LARGHETTO was my LOI. Thanks Orpheus and BR.

  28. Thanks to The Strawbs for Titania and Roxy Music for Coo. Parsed three, biffed three.

    I did see a midsummer nights dream as a promenade presentation in Oxford. a novel way to present Shakespeare. Not quite up there with Pericles or the Scottish play in Deal Castle.

  29. Despite being a fan of Bill and Ben, and Bill and Ted, my first thought for 22a was COO. Shows how these crosswords can condition you! Prior to that MINCEMEAT rolled in first almost before I’d finished reading the clue. Didn’t bother parsing LOI, HARBOUR MASTER, as I had all of the checkers. No problems with POETASTER as I’ve seen it many times, although only in the cruciverbalist environment, not in the wild. 5:35. Thanks Orpheus and BR.

  30. 11d Larghetto. Ghetto not necessarily = slum. The two in Venice, which are the origin of the English word, where the Jews had to live, wasn’t a slum, but it is pretty rough to make them live in a prescribed place IMO.
    21d Mew. Hadn’t noticed any of the complications mentioned by our esteemed blogger, I just whacked it in.

  31. 10 minutes for me; LOI MINCEMEAT.
    MEW would have been FOI but I left it until the end and entered it unparsed before solving my LOI.
    I had heard of Poetaster somewhere so that was not a problem -and clearly clued.
    Agree with others that this QC required a bit too much biffing but I liked it overall.
    COD to MIDNIGHT.
    David

  32. I too had forgotten the lovey dovey ‘Bill and Coo’ phrase which has come up a few times in the past. I spent too long trying to make sense of COR! Still got there in the end with Poe taster and LA r ghetto from wordplay rather than GK. Sub 10 again so a phew and coo to biffing I say!
    Ta for the excellent blog (and judging by the quality of your decoding you should be accepted by Milton Keynes) and thanks for an excellently pitched QC (you should definitely have your vipered nymph returned)

  33. I enjoyed this so thanks Orpheus and Bletchley Reject. I don’t like Coo as an expression of surprise – cor is much more likely surely. Also poetaster and debrett are far too obscure for a quickie in my opinion but the rest was fair Thanks again!

  34. 5.41 after my customary struggle with The Times website. As others have commented, something of a biff-fest, which might be rather disrespectful to the setter, so my apologies and thanks to Orpheus.

  35. 15:07

    All completed pretty quickly (for me) but there were a few obscure ones here. NHO POETASTER or MEW, LARGHETTO was on the edge of my vocab and failed to parse LOI COO.

  36. Made very hard work of this, and needed a second sitting to sort out my last three clues (4d, 14ac and 11d). My problems with the first two of those were down to earlier careless biffs – TitaniC and DebretS, whereas the perfectly reasonable Larghetto had me muttering under my breath about obscure US rivers. . . An outbreak of common sense did eventually prevail.
    I quite liked 15d, Oil Drum, but CoD to the nho 6d, Poetaster, for the friendly surface. Invariant

  37. Quite quick until stuck on a few at the end. I finished up in 17 minutes with harbour master and extraordinary both going in unparsed from the crossers. Vaguely recognised poetaster once it had occurred to me.

    FOI – 6ac PUP
    LOI – 6dn POETASTER
    COD – 6ac PUP

    Thanks to Orpheus and BR

  38. Enjoyable QC, solving at the dentists. Slow at first, only completing outliers like NOB, DEBRETT, COO , PUP and HOTEL. Then luckily pennies dropped more quickly, biffing left and right. Liked CROC, HAREM, ATTEMPT, MIDNIGHT, TITANIA.
    We had LARGHETTO the other day. Only vaguely heard of LOI POETASTER.
    Blog much needed, so thanks, BR.

  39. DNF! I have NHO the phrase ‘Bill and COO’, so I put in COR for ‘that’s a surprise’ which, in turn, made L_R_H_T_r impossible to solve. I got the LAR bit, but never thought of GHETTO for slum and LARGHETTO is not in my vocabulary. It wasn’t last time and it still isn’t. Also, the NHO POETASTER was a pure guess, as was MEW. A sMEW is not a seagull. It’s a duck. Gulls and ducks are both birds, but they’re not the same as each other.

    The previous 22 clues took me 10-12 minutes, which is PB territory for me, but the following 20-25 minutes were a waste of time. I’m afraid I now wish that I hadn’t bothered.

    Many thanks to BR.

  40. After a slow parse to get MINCEMEAT the answers rolled into the grid in 8 1/2 minutes (a fast time for me), with just a hesitation to check the anagrist for EXTRAORDINARY – great, great clue, to note that we were getting a bit self-centered at 9A THEME, and to come back for PROMOTER. Fun puzzle, but now what do I do?

    The “swindle” sense of PUP was new to me. I have seen POETASTER in the wild, who knows where, but it’s an odd enough word that I never forgot it.

    Thanks Orpheus and Bletch! I second the good wishes for the return of the lost nymph.

  41. 9:57. I parsed MEW from smew but realize from blog and comments it’s better from mews. I call it CRAPS( correct response although parsed stupidly). I imagine I appear in Debrett’s due to the distinguished and ancient lineage of my forebears and also due to the overall nobility of my manner, gesture, and speech. I usually don’t brag about this because of my Uriah Heep-like humility- of which I am very proud…..

  42. The POETASTERS of Ispahan by Clifford Bax was one of the early attempts by “Jazzer” Hale to introduce me to the performing arts at Grammar School. As with so much well-intentioned stuff thrown my way at the time I declined to take any serious interest.

    Only two clues remained after the first pass.

    FOI PUP
    LOI EXTRAORDINARY
    COD HARBOUR MASTER
    TIME 3:19

  43. Found this easier than yesterday. Only problem was parsing MEW and I think I probably followed curryowen’s CRAPS method by shortening meow to the NHO Gull. Thanks for explanations. Also new to me was POETASTER but wordplay was kind. Thanks all.

  44. 13m
    Slowed by promoter, harbour master, and LOI harbour master, which needed a second sitting.
    COD promoter.

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