Mephisto 3134 – Citizen Furball

Author   vinyl1Posted on Categories Mephisto

Generally speaking, this was not that difficult a Mephisto.   Most of the answers are not obscure, allowing a certain amount of biffing once you get a few crossing letters. But there is a bit of a sting in the tail, where obscure words are used in the cryptics to give you an obscure word for the answer, which may make if difficult to finish.   Unfortunately, there’s another one I can’t parse, but at least it’s an easy biff if you know The Odyssey.

I am getting better at Mephisto, and now think of N when I see navy, but Cilla when I see black.   But these clever compilers are always coming up with something new,   I did enjoy what we are called and the half of a medley

1 Relative in medley not half like a schoolgirl (7)
MISSISH – MIS(SIS)H[-mash]
6 Set on schedule in Hollywood (5)
SLATE – Double definition,
10 Former currency familiar? No mate! (4)
INTI – INTI[mate], a coin from Peru.
11 Navy barracks not right somehow for eatery (8, two words)
SNACK BAR –  Anagram of N + BAR[r]ACKS.
12 Cryptic comps said to be irregular (9)
SPASMODIC – Anagram of COMPS SAID, a starter clue.
15 Gripe problem disheartened (4)
PULE – PU[zz]LE – what you’re doing right now!
16 Two notes about cat put to rest (6)
ENTOMB –  E, N.(TOM)B, where E is a musical note, and N.B is an abbreviation of nota bene.
17 Wingless insects seen in middle of hibiscus trees (6)
ILICES – [hib]I(LICE)S[cus].  The ilex is also called the holm oak.
18 What we are called in explosive games (10)
TOURNAMENT – T(OUR NAME)NT.  Brilliant and simple, the best clue in the puzzle.
20 Contracting engineers initially loved to run network test (10)
DEVELOPING – Anagram of E + LOVED + PING.    Contracting in the sense of catching a disease.
24 A lodging in Switzerland rented out? (6)
CHALET – CH(A)LET, a clever &lit.
25 Hearing once behind French lawyer, former Swiss magistrate (6)
AVOYER – AV. + OYER.  AV. is the abbreviation the French use for avocat
26 Wild onion dish put out fashionably (4)
MOLY – Biffed by me.   You evidently take some dish and remove a word that means fashionably.   Audience participation invited   Evidently, it’s MO[dish]LY, the opposite of what I was expecting.  
29 Concerned with pre-1918 period, two guys passed over fighting with Germany (9)
EDWARDIAN – ED(WAR + D)IAN, where the ambiguity of English “with” is used.
30 Enclosure in Irish county for carriage (8)
CLARENCE – CLAR(ENC)E.
31 Teach locally in Ulster seaport mostly (4)
LARN – LARN(e).
32 Sun cool about not very alluring lady (5)
SYREN – S + NER[v]Y backwards,   A mere variant spelling, as y would usually transliterate upsilon, noe eta-iota.
33 Fur suit includes rare trim (7)
GENETTE –  GE(NETT)E.   Chambers actually defines nett as trim (rare), and gee used to mean suit is not that common either.
Down
1 Take in booze for going around island (7)
MISLEAD – M(ISL)EAD, where the abbreviation for island is a bit longer than usual.
2 Cricketers turned up in pink (4)
STAB – BATS upside-down.
3 Timber is so-so for rebuild (6)
SISSOO – Anagram of IS SO-SO, making a wood used in India.
4 One text providing distinctive theories (4)
ISMS – I + SMS – short message service, the protocol for text messaging.
5 Melted white stuff present in special stock (9)
SNOWBROTH –  S (NOW) BROTH
6 Lily and Bob Black (6)
SCILLA -S + CILLA…..Cilla Black.
7 Kidnap a born leader abroad (6)
ABDUCE – A + B + DUCE.
8 Offer to tackle trouble for nightwatchman? (9)
TAILENDER – T(AIL)ENDER, my cricket knowledge is improving, this was my FOI.
9 High flyer in European capital wanting opening (4)
ERNE – [b]ERNE.
13 Broom in butcher’s joint altogether lacking width (9)
KNEEHOLLY –  KNEE + [w]HOLLY.
14 Rummy one’s seen in village pub (9, two words)
GIN PALACE – GIN + P(A)LACE, some rather loose usage, as a village is a place, but so are many other things, and a gin palace is not just any pub.
19 A number with navy in Mediterranean port act like bullies (7)
TYRANNE – TYR(A N + N)E.
21 Quite within variety of Roman garland (6)
VALLAR – V(ALL)AR, a garland awarded for breaching a vallum.
22 Depressing end of tale in Loaded (6)
LEADEN – L([tal]E)ADEN, a starter clue.
23 Dale, one dropping off after a nap and noggin (6)
NODDLE – NOD + D[a]LE.
26 Clothing racket overturned (4)
MACS – SCAM upside down.
27 Piece of sombre news (4)
BREN -hidden in [som]BRE N[ews].
28 Sanction money restricting Iran primarily (4)
FIAT – FA(I[ran])T, where we have another obscure usage, this time with fat meaning money.

13 comments on “Mephisto 3134 – Citizen Furball”

    1. I think this is right, but you have to look at it from the side with one eye closed and the other squinting, to get it to work.

      Started very easily, and then got rather hard. One slight correction to 13d: the definition should be ‘Broom in butcher’s,’ I think

  2. ….ping, nor did I know it as a network test. I also biffed GENETTE. No other problems, and successfully completed in two sittings totalling 49 minutes.

    Hogarth’s GIN PALACE in Lancaster is a favourite watering hole of mine when I can get there (but not this year).

  3. I found this very hard indeed: it took me back to my early days of Mephisto solving. I did about two-thirds of it reasonably quickly but then had to grind the rest out with lots of alphabet-trawling and rooting around in Chambers.
  4. 14D has two uses of a category and a category member. According to some versions of the rules about cryptic clues, it’s fine to use a category like “pub” and expect the solver to think of “gin palace” or some other type of pub, but if you go the other way, as village => PLACE does, you are required to indicate that the word in the clue is just an example, with a word like “perhaps” or “say”.

    When I started editing Mephistos, my impression was that at least some of the setters were intending to follow the strict rule, so if I spotted a breach in a clue, I would ask if it was intended. A while ago, I had an example from each of the three, and was told that it was intended each time. So my inclination is now usually to leave this point to the setter.

    I’m not sure who originally stated that this was a rule, but I have heard some very strong opinions when I have dared to suggest that it may not always be necessary.

    1. Going by what we might call Mephisto Rules, ‘village’ appears as a definition of ‘place’ in Chambers, so it would seem to be kosher.
      1. Hmmm. “a town, village, etc.” is the def concerned. I don’t think that makes “town” or “place” an actual def in C.
        1. Waylaid by football, beer and Chinese food. Okay, it’s part of a definition, and towns and villages are examples of ‘places’, but I would imagine that a setter would work on the basis that if it appears in the BRB, it’s fine to use it.

          The problem clue for me is 26a. The more I think about it, the less it seems to work. How can we infer that ‘from’ is implied in the wordplay? Or is ‘dish put out’ meant to be read as some kind of adjectival phrase that might usually be hyphenated?

          1. The word order is certainly non-standard, but cryptic crossword clues do that sometimes – it’s only in cryptic crosswords that we use “the French” to mean “French for ‘the'”, for instance. If there is a set of rules that clearly shows which versions of non-standard order are OK and which ones are clearly unfair, I’ve yet to find it.
    2. I find it difficult to comment these days as my cancer makes life difficult. However I can still lurk!

      A certain Derrick Somerset Macnutt had strong views on DBE which he regarded as unfair unless clearly indicated

      1. He did, but I don’t think it was one of his clearest explanations. (This is re PROTUBERANT on about the third page of his “Cluemanship” chapter). The clue discussed is “Sticking out for the potato insect?” as a clue for PROTUBERANT. This follows discussion about “Insincere sympathy, swelling the Nile?” => CROCODILE TEARS, on which he says that without the question mark, the clue implies that crocodiles are only found in the Nile, and cry there. For PROTUBERANT, he doesn’t actually say whether the QM makes the clue OK. And for me at least, it’s hard to see how a solver would understand that the QM applies to the potato rather than the insect. He also says “It is not true of words that because A = B, B = A.” If he had taught maths rather than Latin, I don’t think he’d have said that – surely no-one thinks that tuber = potato.
        1. I agree – not his clearest explanation

          He was more articulate in his monthly slips where he discussed clues that had been submitted in the clue writing competition. He would have no truck with for example Axminster = carpet but would insist upon Axminster, perhaps?

          1. I’ve encountered the “no truck with” view from other people, but I can’t see why it’s supposed to be fair to get “Axminster” from “carpet”, or in an example I’ve previously used, “Dalmatian” from “dog”, but not the other way round. There are other meanings for both words of course, but I would give anyone a bit of a funny look if they told me that Axminster didn’t suggest carpet, or Dalmatian didn’t suggest dog.

            As far as I can tell, this rule is really just the result of “dog” being guaranteed to be part of a dictionary definition of “Dalmatian”, but “Dalmatian” being very unlikely as part of the def for “dog”. In debates about it, I can’t recall a justification any stronger than “this is what we do” or “Ximenes said so”.

            Edited at 2020-09-28 09:16 am (UTC)

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