Times 29353 – Bird or bottle

74 comments on “Times 29353 – Bird or bottle”

1. 38 minutes. NHO HAYLAGE or MUTAGEN but the wordplay was kind.

   Isn’t IN GEAR just a hidden answer [joining] in {meet}ING EAR{lier}?

   FILIBUSTER was from definition only. I had no idea what else was going on. I saw the film BUSTER, but I was never going to think of it from ‘film about criminals’.

   1. Yes! To be precise I think it’s ‘group [of letters] joining’.

2. Straightforward, today. It is Monday, after all. Nho the film “Buster” but the answer was obvious. Ditto for Haylage.
   Yes, IN GEAR is just a hidden.

3. Excellent crossword. EIGHTEENTH is an exceptionally good clue as is FILIBUSTER. Thanks setter and Hugh

4. No real probs today except the last two, MUTAGEN & HAYLAGE, both unheard of. 33 mins.

   I think Jack is right re IN GEAR. A bit of a French touch today I thought: PIED-A-TERRE, BRETON, METZ, ROULETTE & NORMANDY!

   I liked EIGHTEENTH & UNDERTRUMP.

   Thanks U and setter.

5. 21:30. I agree with jackkt that IN GEAR is a hidden; the indicator – group joining – makes it an impressively cunning one. I also liked STUBBORN for the way “delivered” didn’t indicate aural wordplay. Nice puzzle

   1. It doesn’t work though (albeit the answer is obvious)? IN GEAR doesn’t join anything except notionally the words MEET and LIER. Aside from the clue not specifying that requirement, even if you were allowing the setter some licence it’s still a stretch considering that IN GEAR itself is two words, and will always contain a space. Therefore the first two words will remain unattached/ unjoined.
      Or is there another, less literal explanation?

      1. I’m happy with the group (of letters) overlapping both words, so joining them. Like a bridge. And it was clever that we had to lift and separate “working group”. Do we need to recognise the space? There is no space in the grid

6. 27:32 with some trepidation over HAYLAGE and LOI FLIT.
   Definitely a harder Monday than average, I thought. Thanks blogger and setter.

7. Failed with HALLAGE and ON YEAR. Had no idea what was going on with 10a. Totally missed the hidden. Should have got HAYLAGE though. 21,36 with pinks. Thanks setter and U.

   1. Very much the same two problems as some as you, JD.

8. Is anyone else struggling with a Times online version which has a tiny grid and a huge area for the clues?

   Do I need to change a setting somewhere?

   1. It was OK (i.e. as normal) for me in the Club version.

   2. Yes. Also, I cannot get into the crossword club section – I have been thinking that it might want me to add a subscription o top of my times subscription.

   3. yes, it happened to me when I accessed the Sunday Times crossword yesterday

9. 41 minutes, trickier than a usual Monday. LOI MUTAGEN. I wasn’t sure it was a word. I didn’t know the Bridge term either. I suppose COD has to be FILIBUSTER but is the movie well enough known to receive the accolade of a mention in The Times crossword? In other words, I didn’t watch it. Good puzzle. Thank you U and setter.

10. 16:19 so very on-wavelength. Lots of originality mixed with a few chestnuts. NHO the Bridge term but guessed it was one because it always is.
    LOI: IN GEAR
    COD: NORMANDY for making me snigger.
    Thanks Ulaca and setter

11. Mixture of very straightforward and harder clues today. MUTAGEN was LOI, even after I thought it might be an anagram. I played bridge for some years, but never came across UNDERTRUMP, and remain mystified about when it could occur. Missed the ward as charge. Nho HAYLAGE, and biffed FILIBUSTER with no attempt at parsing, similarly EIGHTEENTH.

    13’24”, thanks ulaca and setter.

    1. Assuming you underruff in dummy, if it is the last trump and you need to access a series of winners in yr own hand, then you might want to hold onto a little one of that suit in the dummy.

       1. I can see this in theory, it’s about as rare as “under promotion” in chess, which appears more in puzzle books than in real life.

    2. Yes, I’m a bridge player, and never knowingly under trumped, nor did I ever see anyone else doing so.

12. Just under 20 minutes with no errors or assistance. Must be a PB. Delayed only by DASH for barrel, which was one of those ‘OK I s’pose’ ones; FILIBUSTER which I absurdly discounted on account of misspelling it with a PH; and pondering whether it was SILVER or salver for a minute or two. COD to HAYLAGE as it meant living in a rural community finally paid off.
    Thanks to very benevolent setter and to ulaca.

13. 25.17, with no idea about FILIBUSTER which I never would have got without the Kill Bill biff. I was thrown by REOFFEND as well so thank you U. LOsI were IN GEAR (oh! A hidden!) and BRETON.

    From Up To Me:
    If I’d thought about it I never would’ve done it, I guess I would’ve let it slide
    If I’d lived my life by what others were thinking, the heart inside me would’ve died
    I was just too STUBBORN to ever be governed by enforced insanity
    Someone had to reach for the rising star, I guess it was up to me

14. 13:54. A puzzle of two halves for me, the first half very quick and the second half very slow.
    I still don’t understand UNDERTRUMP. What on earth does ‘the trick to be elsewhere’ mean?
    13ac is a lovely clue but it’s not &Lit: the words ‘putt here’ are not part of the wordplay.
    HAYLAGE entered with fingers crossed. The wordplay is very clear but it’s an unlikely-looking word.

    1. Tricks are the four cards played in each round at bridge. The highest rated card wins the trick. If the card you play is of lower value than others, the trick goes to another player.
       Other contributors will probably complain that I obviously don’t play bridge. They’re right!

       1. Ah I see, so if you UNDERTRUMP, you are by definition playing a trump card that is of lower value than another that has already been played, so you will certainly lose the trick and so by definition it will be ‘elsewhere’, i.e. ‘in the hands of another player’. Is that it?

          1. Correct!

             1. Thank you!

15. Around 20 minutes.

    – No idea how FILIBUSTER worked – is a filly a particularly ‘feisty’ woman?
    – Constructed the unknown HAYLAGE from wordplay
    – Was slow to get STUBBORN as I thought ‘delivered’ was indicating a homophone
    – Took a while to figure out how that the definition for REOFFEND required the first four words of the clue, rather than just the first two or three

    Thanks ulaca and setter.

    FOI Storage
    LOI In gear
    COD Stubborn

    1. I though fillys were more like those nurses in 27a.

16. Not too hard, but totally stuck on IN GEAR, because working nearly always translates as ON.

    1. It’s a poor clue imo

17. 19.01. Held up by the improbable HAYLAGE and (improbably, since it was the only language to fit) BRETON. UNDERTRUMP looks like something I’d do to earn withering comments from my partner when I foolishly tried to learn bridge.

    1. Not the only language, surely? I (disturbingly) put CRETAN!

18. Thought I was flying through this as the top half went in easily. Delayed in the bottom half but got there no problem in 18:19 except that Silver completely fooled me – I put in salver as I thought we were looking for metal plate, not metal. Of course salvers don’t have to be metal and the one was completely unaccounted for in my answer so completely up the wrong creek, beaten by the setters misdirection.

    Thx U and setter

    1. I’m a bit grumpy too, as I was fooled by that: had an idea that all salvers were metal.

19. Absolutely amazing the words one can make up doing this crossword. I failed completely to come up with stubborn, possibly because I am, and instead used Stubbery! After Stubberd! (Heard small boat). What an idiot. Loved filibuster and eighteenth, what fun, thanks all, Cx

20. A gentle intro to the week. IN GEAR took a wee while but new words MUTAGEN and HAYLAGE were straightforward enough. I did like EIGHTEENTH and FILIBUSTER.

    Thanks to Ulaca and the settter,

21. A bit hard for a Monday, but all doable. I got a bit stuck in the SW, but 16d Stubborn got me going again.
    1a Slapdash, paused for a moment about dash=barrel.
    11a Filibuster, biffed, not knowing the film.
    25a Silver gave me pause, I wasn’t sure it wasn’t Salver.
    COD 20a Undertrump, although I usually say underruff. Both are valid, and I often say Overtrump.
    5d Haylage known from the Archers! Not a term of much use to office workers.
    19d NHO Mutagen, but eminently guessable.
    Many thanks to ulaca and setter.

    1. UNDERRUFF was Britain in the Stuart period.

       1. Ho-ho!

22. 15:20 – all fairly straightforward except for MUTAGEN and the well-hidden IN GEAR. Some enjoyably crafty stuff going on.

23. Maybe everyone has understood and I suppose it’s fairly obvious because it’s the first definition in Collins, but the ‘Kill Bill’ reference is, apart from the obvious cinematic thing in the surface, to the practice of MPs talking at great length in parliament so that there is no time left to pass the bill. Seems crazy, you wouldn’t think that it would exist in advanced democracies.

    Very slow on this (53 minutes) and I had to resort to aids. HAYLAGE isn’t in Chambers although it’s in Collins.

    1. Wil, I think that’s what ulaca was referring to in his reference to Mr Smith Goes to Washington. Certainly that’s the only meaning I knew and why I was able to biff the answer.

       1. Most importantly, KILL BILL is underlined (as the definition).

24. Two short at 45 mins.

    I had DRAW ON, since charge=ONWARD, I never really understand reverse cryptics and I thought this was one. This messed up ROULETTE, where I had the way as either RY or RD. Failed to see the somewhat odd anagram indicator of “supply” for the NHO MUTAGEN.

    Pleased to guess UNDERTRUMP with just one checker, and to guess HAYLAGE, since I had heard of SILAGE.

    My first guess on seeing the enumeration for EAST ANGLIA was BURJ KALIFA, plenty of flats there.

    No chance of parsing FILIBUSTER, with FIL{m} and BUSTER=feisty woman, seemed close enough, I liked the definition though.

    COD EIGHTEENTH, brilliant. Shame the editor didn’t put this puzzle last Monday, the day after the Ryder Cup, when there was much snarling.

    1. ‘Supply’ as an anagram indicator is an old chestnut which is dying out – slowly.

       You have to take the adverb from the adjective ‘supple’; thus, the anagram fodder is ‘made supple’ to form a new word.

25. 25:11

    With three or four in very quickly, I thought this might be a fast one, but it was not to be. Didn’t know HAYLAGE or MUTAGEN, but liked METZ (had forgotten it is in France) and UNDERTRUMP. Still don’t really know what a FILIBUSTER is, but suspected that was the answer from three checkers, and more or less confirmed by the other two.

    Thanks U and setter

    1. Yes, Metz and Strasbourg don’t sound/look as if they’d be in France – I suppose they changed nationality a few times in history given their geography.

26. A rare opportunity for me to post on this blog while there is still chance that it will be read. I was hoping for an easy Monday offering, and though it wasn’t all that easy, I did at least finish. NHO HAYLAGE, but it was the SW corner that caused me the real trouble. Remembering tub=boat might have helped a lot, or seeing the anagram of 23a. Anyway, COD to FILIBUSTER, time:87:05.

27. 27 minutes. Didn’t parse FILIBUSTER and I could spend my life unsuccessfully trying to understand what an UNDERTRUMP is despite our blogger’s I’m sure excellent explanation and keriothe and Zabadak’s discussion above. NHO HAYLAGE but it’s a new word that I may be able to remember for once. Thank goodness for the ‘Zulu’ in the clue for METZ which brought to mind the barely heard of ‘French city’.

    1. I was pondering UNDERTRUMP and think maybe I’ve found a simple example. There are two tricks left in the hand. Your partner plays the Queen of trumps. You have the King and a low trump card. You UNDERTRUMP by playing the low card saving your King for the last trick. If you played the King your side would have used two very strong cards to win one trick. UNDERTRUMPING gives you a good chance of winning two.( I have to admit I haven’t played the game in over 50 years!)

       1. Thanks. Despite your admirably clear and I’m sure correct exposition on the subject, I’m afraid I’m still none the wiser as card games are a foreign country to me and the terminology a complete mystery. Anything I do know, which just consists of single words like “ruff” and “ombre”, I’ve picked up from crosswords; it all sounds very complicated and I’m sure I’d be a hopeless card player 😊.

       2. I don’t think this counts, as you are merely following suit and playing, um, properly. Undertrumping, being so rare, has to do with throwing a trump away in favour of keeping a seemingly less useful or powerful card.

          1. Collins is not so demanding: “to play a lower trump on a trick to which a higher trump has already been played “

28. Relatively straightforward for me finishing in 32.57, although I did spend rather a long time on my LOI IN GEAR. After spending about five minutes trying to figure it out, I was on the point of putting in IN GEAR unparsed until the hidden was finally spotted.

29. 23.30. Not at the races today. LOI in gear after finally recognising the hidden word.

30. Straightforward, with FILIBUSTER not parsed, MUTAGEN was known, and I play bridge so that was clear. 20 minutes.

31. 36 mins, all parsed. Started off thinking, ‘Easy Monday’, and then it went a bit, well, Wednesdayish. NHO HAYLAGE but wordplay straightforward. Liked FILIBUSTER and EIGHTEENTH best!

32. I am in the camp that found this difficult for a Monday. No issues though.

    CODS to 13 across and 20 across, both fantastic clues.

33. 24.36

    The pint of cider at lunch had its effect but happy to see no pink squares. I’ve UNDERTRUMPED a few times, though never intentionally. As others have said, EIGHTEENTH was very good.

    Thanks Ulaca and setter

34. About 14 minutes so trickier than your usual Monday. Like others, hesitated between silver and salver before taking the time to parse it properly, NHO haylage (neither has my spellchecker) but the wp was kind. LOI filibuster, spent too long trying to take ac or ad out of a feisty woman till having all the checkers produced the PDM and then reverse-engineered it. Definite MER at filly for feisty woman, agree with Merlin above that flighty is more like it, though no doubt the dictionaries let the setter of the hook.

35. 47 minutes, DNF. I just didn’t spot the hidden IN GEAR but I enjoyed the rest. Thanks ulaca.

36. Got very stuck on UNDERTRUMP and MUTAGEN, neither of which I knew.
    IN GEAR took too long – it never ceases to surprise me just how many ‘hiddens’ go across the line-join, or at least they very often do in the print edition.

37. Is there a dictionary which the setters must follow? I had never heard of Haylage which doesn’t appear in Chambers. Didn’t write it in until I had all the crossing answers.

    1. They use more than one. But it is a rare word that is not in Collins or Chambers, or both. Haylage is in Collins: ” silage made from partially dried grass.”

38. Allegedly. But the general rule seems to be to plough through every conceivable dictionary until you find just the one publication which includes it as a minor entry.
    Performing that dictionary trawl seems to me to rather defeat the main point of a cryptic crossword, and I generally refuse to engage in it. Life’s too short.
    But hey-ho-I’m probably in a minority of one.

    1. There’s no question of every conceivable dictionary. Haylage is in Collins online and the Concise Oxford, both of which have been official references for Times setters for decades. They also use Chambers sometimes but it’s only within the past year that I have seen that officially confirmed by an Editor. As for being a minor entry, ‘haylage’ has its own entry with only one meaning so it’s not a word one has to trawl for. It dates from the 1960s, btw.

       1. Fair enough. I was trying not to be specific about any particular word, but just to be clear, I knew the word HAYLAGE.
          My point was a general reply, not necessarily concerning this particular crossword, making the point that if a word isn’t in one dictionary you move on to the next one. . .and so on. Until, in effect, your search finally coincides with that of the setter-who almost certainly has pulled the word out of a hat too. And that could quite possibly be a minor entry.
          Nothing wrong with that-it can sometimes be enlightening. But I’ve always maintained that a standard cryptic should be 99% solvable without recourse to a dictionary, except perhaps a concise, or as a confirmation or spelling tool. It should mostly be in the parsing. After all, solvers on the Waterloo commute didn’t carry huge dictionaries in their briefcases.
          You might counter that modern technology makes that possible and therefore must be an improvement, but I’m not so sure.
          I’m actually not against tough crosswords of the dictionary type as long as they’re signposted like the Mephisto. If they must pervade the standard cryptic I would have them as the Saturday competition offering, with the Jumbo already catering for mere mortals. That means you get all week to solve it.

39. Hmm…thought this was very tough for a Monday puzzle. DNF as NHO of MUTAGEN. Guessed FILIBUSTER but no hope of parsing it. STUBBORN and NORMANDY were clever! And although I got FLIT easily enough it is usually used up here as the term for when you move house 🙂

    Thanks again to setter and to blogger for the explanations.

40. Thought this was quite tricky for a Monday. It took a long time to get more than the right-hand side, and some of that turned out to be wrong anyway! I started 11a with TERMINATOR, which seemed a) to fit and b) partially to make sense. I couldn’t imagine what other film could go there. Anyway, AIR FREIGHT put me right and the Kill Bill bit finally made sense, though I didn’t understand the rest of it, not having heard of Buster or thought a filly was feisty. NHO MUTAGEN or HAYLAGE, but both seemed likely. Liked EIGHTEENTH, EAST ANGLIA and UNDERTRUMP best.

41. Definitely tough for a Monday. I wrongly took BUSTER to be a generic term referring to all gangland movies. I’d never heard of the actual film of that name. Liked the clue, though maybe it was trying a bit hard. 28’09”

42. Missed IN GEAR. I read 25A as metal plate ie to plate with metal or “to silver” with the front of Aga being Ag (chemical symbol for silver).

43. I too missed IN GEAR (as a hidden, D’oh!), as I confidently put in ON for the first word ( so obviously the synonym for “working”- double D’Oh!), which left me with no reasonable word to follow. Note to self: look harder – there’s going to be one ‘hidden’ in the grid. My other big snag was UNDERTRUMP as NHO ( so looked up), and I missed the ‘always =ay’ for the unknown HAYLAGE. But, other than that, I tore through the top half, thereby giving me false confidence with the lower half and bunging in SALVER and CENSURE (don’t ask). Thoroughly enjoyed, as I now am beginning to feel that I’m one of the group (I’m 81 and have been doing these for at least ten years!).

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