Times Quick Cryptic No 3098 by Shay

101 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 3098 by Shay”

1. DNF, with most of the SW corner blank. If John finds it “rather hard” there’s little hope for folk like me! I managed most of the top half of the grid eventually, but not without long pauses (convulsions for LAUGHTER among several that held me up, are agitated for STEW took some finding, and if a CREAM TEA is a light meal, all I can say is that Shay has never met a real cream tea), then found the SE corner even more tricky (is IBIDEM an English word, is MOPY a word at all?), before failing on the SW. BREECH for buttocks an unknown for me – I see it’s marked archaic – and that meant no entry into that part of the grid.

   I know there are people who like the more challenging puzzles but this was not for me. Not enjoyed at all.

   Many thanks John for the blog and at least I can be confident that the Sunday Special from Sawbill will be more of a genuine QC.

   1. IBIDEM is Latin but you are more likely to come across it in English as the abbreviation ‘ibid’. It means ‘in the same book, chapter, passage, etc’ and is used in reference books, catalogues and in editing and printing.

      MOPY is listed as an alternative to ‘mopey’, and it’s the American spelling according to some sources.

      Not the friendliest of QCs in my view. I needed 16 minutes, missing my extended target for the second consecutive day. I lost a lot of time thinking 11ac had to be ITEM but I simply couldn’t see the wordplay so it didn’t go in for ages.

      My LOI was LAMENT which I got eventually by thinking of the book of the Bible called Lamentations. I never understood the wordplay until coming here.

      1. Yes, I also thought LAMENT was just the first part of the book of LAMENTations.

   2. I want sure if the recent run of easier puzzles had made me soft or whether the SW corner was a particular challenge so this heartens me. I didn’t get very far at all, mostly through lack of knowledge/vocabulary rather than inability to parse the clues.

   3. Good observation about cream tea. Was definitely looking askance at that clue. I broke out in a cold sweat just thinking about how full I felt the last time I had cream tea.

      1. The cream teas I’ve had are a couple of scones with clotted cream and jam – I could eat two or three of those before I begin to feel full. But that’s a matter of constitution and taste. I’m rather watering at the mouth thinking about it.

         Objectively the definition seems right in that it’s not a three course meal, just something between between proper meals.

         1. I didn’t have any problem with the clue. As a cryptic crossword clue it is perfect. Definitely one of the easier ones in this puzzle. But subjectively (you are right) I don’t consider it to be that light hence the look. I think it’s the clotted cream that does for me.

            Just one can be over 600 calories depending on scone size. So one is plenty for me. If I get carried away with the conversation that is typical over tea then I might have more and then I really do feel full. Definitely subjective though and depends where you are eating it too.

         2. I’m impressed with your capacity! I’m watering at the mouth and quailing at the stomach.

            1. Helps to be 6’1+” and 190lbs of lean muscle with a feast-or-famine metabolism and running 35+ miles per week.

   4. Yes. It’s relatively rare nowadays that I need to give up and hit reveal, and then still need to come to the blog both for the explanation of the clue and the definition of the word, but IBIDEM scored that particular hat-trick today.

   5. I have to say that I, too, had a MER about a cream tea being described as a light meal. In my experience, whatever time I eat one, it becomes my last meal of the day!

2. I tend to agree with Cedric. Challenging is one thing, but an archaism (BREECH, which survives, barely, in ‘breech birth’), a Latin word (‘ibid’ is an English abbreviation, IBIDEM is not an English word, and it’s not used in English), and an alternative spelling (MOPY is not in ODE; sv ‘mope’) aren’t really QC material.

   1. As mentioned above I’m not keen on ‘mopy’ either, but ODE has ‘mopey (also mopy)’.

      1. Badly phrased: I meant to say that ‘mopy’ isn’t listed in ODE; if you look up ‘mopy’ you won’t find it.

         1. Okay, but isn’t that the same for thousands of words that are listed under a main entry as alternative spellings or derivatives such as comparatives and superlatives?

            If I go to lookup ‘mopey’ or ‘mopy’ in my printed ODE the main entry is ‘mope’ with a subentry: DERIVATIVES – moper, mopey (also mopy), mopier, mopiest, mopish. I wouldn’t expect it to have its own entry further down the page after ‘moptop’. In the online version I search on ‘mopy’ and it goes straight to ‘mopey (also mopy)’.

            I agree the ‘mopy’ is digging a bit deep for a QC but I don’t see it as invalid.

         2. Yes, but Pocket OED eighth edition (2000) which is my first reference because it’s next to my elbow only has MOPY! I looked it up being pretty sure Mopey was the word, though it didn’t fit.

3. 5:50, not understanding ITEM at all but thinking it had to be, and strongly hoping that BREECH could mean ‘buttocks’ – I thought there may be a vague connection with ‘breeches’. Thanks for explaining ITEM!

4. 17 minutes. Hard going with too many hold-ups to list. I did get BREECH quite early on though because of the ‘breech birth’ term mentioned by Kevin – not that I will ever know but yes, it “Sounds painful!”. Interesting to see both ITEM and IBIDEM; ITEM in the original Latin sense was a def in the 15×15 yesterday and was the subject of much comment.

   I didn’t know an ESPRESSO was an alcoholic drink 😊.

   A big thanks to John – as if you haven’t got enough on your plate already – and to Shay

   1. Although an espresso is just strong coffee, if you are in Italy you can ask them to add a shot of grappa to convert it into a caffé corretto. I do like Italy

5. I’m sorry to say I agree with all of the moans. It needed knowledge and wordplay which were far beyond QC levels. Also airy doesn’t mean ‘offhand’ to me. Thanks though!

6. WETS took forever, I’ve met ibid. in references lots of times but never had the curiosity to find out more – the bide bit was hard to find. BREECH was justified by breeches covereing your behind but ITEM I just bunged in. 15.01. Thanks John, blog got good use from me today.

7. DNF because of BREECH etc.
   Is there a word or phrase for getting the right answer for the wrong reason? As in LAMENT from Lamentations.

8. I got through most of this in about average time, although BREECH and WETS required a lot of head scratching, but I was defeated by the NHO IBIDEM so a DNF for me.
   Personally I don’t mind the odd tricky puzzle, especially when there are a few easy ones each week to cater for all tastes.
   COD to NASSAU for the surface.
   Thanks to John and Shay

   1. Unlike John, I also thought the surface for NASSAU was clever, as saunas (ie sauna businesses) would struggle in the Caribbean.

      1. Same thought here: struggling financially. Not that I had the presence of mind for that while solving, what an idea.

9. Another DNF here, also coming unstuck massively in the SW corner. The rest was manageable.

   Pi ❤️

10. 14:56. Yes. Quite a tussle today. Very pleased to finish it. FOI ORCA. Held up most in the south west corner, not just BREECH but also FRICTION and TWIG. Thank you Shay and John

11. 1:04:57 (average: 38, target: 40)

    This was a tough one. I thought I wouldn’t finish. Somehow managed to stay in there and keep thinking through and somehow got there. When people compare a QC to a 15×15 I normally disagree because the word play is so much trickier in the 15×15. But today I agree: some of the clues required significantly more mental gymnastics. I really enjoy that but I agree it’s not exactly “quick”. Having said that there were a lot of easy ones mixed in to bring the level down a few notches.

    LOI was ITEM. Saw ITEM straightaway, but parsing it took a long long time.

    Thanks John and Shay I’m proud to have finished that one all green.

    1. I admire your perseverance Andy. I gave up after 20 mins with Ibidem still blank. Should have shown more determination.

12. Tough, especially SE corner. Not sure at all about MOPY or BREECH. 23:12 to struggle home.

13. DNF. That IBIDEM is not a word for the QC. I saw that “ones” might be MY or MINE, but no words would fit. Decided ones must be IS, but even though I got the “pens” device I was never going to get this.

    ITEM was tough to parse. And MOPY doesn’t look like a real word, surely it should be MOPEY like dopey and ropey. Why would the setter choose this word? The Y is not a checker. Why not
    After shock, European is sad (4)

    Also struggled with FRICTION/FICTION, mainly possibilities there. Especially as I hadn’t got BREECH. I know lots of slang for buttocks, but who ever says “it’s a pain in the breech”.

    1. What a great post – rare that I agree so completely! And your alternative clue and answer for 17a are so much better that I think one is justified in saying that Shay simply failed with this one.

14. This was tough for a QC and I agree there were some dodgy definitions/clues such as CREAM TEA and WETS. But TWIG was very good and I enjoyed the challenge, finishing in not much over my average time. 11:21.

15. Pretty well on Shay’s wavelength today but needed the blog to parse ITEM and IBIDEM, both written in just from the definition. Three ‘hairy’ clues! MER that CREAM TEA is a light meal. LOI WETS. Thanks John.

16. After reading the blog I don’t feel so bad only getting eight.

17. I took 10:08 but put BREACH for 16dn

18. Over 30 mins and still DNF; NHO IBIDEM! Like so many others, a long hold-up in SW corner … breakthrough with JAMBOREE, then BREECH (hesitantly), then TWIG with no checkers – an excellent clue, disguising [to] “cotton on”. Followed by FRICTION, AIRY and LAMENT in that order. Finally, WETS with an alphabet trawl leaving just 21A unsolved. Some non-QC material in my view, but always good to learn something new!

19. This has been a tricky couple of days. I gave up trying to post yesterday after numerous error 500 attempts (DNF due to Thieving making loi impossible), and a bit of a pig-like(5) SW corner today. A second sitting eventually allowed me to finish, only to find that Ibides wasn’t the full version of Ibid – I knew that fraught year of Latin wouldn’t come in useful one day. Lol and CoD Twig, but that was the only friendly one in that corner. Invariant

20. Yes I too keep getting Error 500 – nice to know I’m not the only one. Ditto ditto the SW corner; I’ve only ever managed one of Shay’s and this wasn’t going to be the second. Thank you, John, for sorting it all out with your usual skill and good humour.
    No wonder: NHO IBIDEM, nor buttocks = BREECH (context?), and others just too difficult for me. 5 to the bad.

    1. Breeches are short trousers that cover the relevant bit of the legs, worn by the riding fraternity.

       1. Thank you! So how do short trousers (however short they may be), which cover the buttocks, manage to equate to buttocks?! Then there is (is there not?) also the issue of the singular: if breeches are short trousers, what (in that context) is BREECH?

21. It is Friday and Shay had form for overcooking things back in their 2nd puzzle of the year, so while the early going was smooth; I always expected there to be a sting in the tail especially with a portcullis grid.

    42:51 only to fail with IBIDEs. Not a clue I’d want to see in the QC ever again – obscure word with obscure synonyms/wordplay. Before beginning my alphatrawl I’d finally unravelled the SW at 35mins which took twenty mins in itself. Along with WETS and BREECH plus the Yoda clued AIRY, IBIDEM made this a slog rather than enjoyment.

    So my week crashes out with a puzzle which took as long as the four of Mon-Thurs (40:52).

    Have a good weekend everybody. Thanks to JohnI and Shay – 75% of your puzzle was the challenge I wanted.

    Edit: 10:14 on Sawbill’s Weekender. Was a bit worried at 20D when “Quill perhaps is small and long” suggested PEN for Quill to go with IS from the clue 🤣

22. 35 minutes but needed to reveal TWIG to help me finish the SW corner which was blank at that point. And couldn’t solve IBIDEM
    COD ironically to TWIG which was a good surface when read with the right emphasis.
    Regarding 9a if there were too many sauna businessses in the Caribbean and demand dropped then saunas would be struggling.
    Thanks Shay and John.

    1. What are you having #5 – it’s a while since we had a drink together in the SCC!

       1. Always happy to welcome the occasion visitor to my club #50. You’ll find me in my favourite seat.
          A couple of pints of IPA would be just the thing to console ourselves and discuss the merits or otherwise of IBIDEM.

          1. Sounds fabulous. Hoping they serve cream teas to go with the pints

23. 14 something but finished

    I don’t know how many things I tried to connect to the WI but somehow JAM eluded me, so that needed a trawl at the end which gave me the B for the buttocks; maybe an appropriate place to finish. I jest of course: like Plett I don’t mind a trickier one but when the QC takes me longer that one of this week’s 15×15 maybe a couple of the more obscure words could have been tweaked.

    Anyways, thanks John/Shay

24. Wow! A brutal welcome back after ten days away from crosswordland! No troubles in the top half but the bottom (breech?) section was a different beast. I’m one of the folk who occasionally enjoy being pushed into building answers a little at a time as I feel this improves my limited crossword skills and I don’t mind my general knowledge being tested but this was outside my comfort zone. Having finally committed to MOPY and AIRY a couple more went in before I conceded defeat to IBIDEM on 27 minutes.
    Thanks for the challenge Shay and for the enlightenment John.

25. Tough! From ORCA to ITEM in 12:14. Thanks Shay and John.

26. I was relieved to come here and find I was not alone in my difficulties or my Mers (MAJOR eyebrow raises). I finished, given some biffing once checkers were available and had to look up BREECH to make sense of ‘bottom’. I knew IBID so took a chance on IBIDEM. As others have said, WETS and ITEM took time even after crossers were in.
    I joined the SCC today but haven’t got a time because the timer continued to roll after completion even though, when I ‘revealed’, the puzzle was correct. A new glitch for me
    Thanks to JohnI.
    Looking back, the last two Shay puzzles were OK for me with decent times. However, I see an earlier Shay DNF with a SNITCH of around 170 which is an extremely erratic setting level.

27. DNF…..too many gaps to list but I did get BREECH.

28. SCC 22:34 wets jamboree ibidem and a technical DNF as I had to alphabet trawl look up the latter after staring blankly at i.i.e. (thank heavens second letter was a b!) MER at stew as I couldn’t work out how ‘agitated’ or ‘are agitated’ = stew but I suppose ‘does one think they are agitated’ could become ‘does one think they stew’?
    Tricksy.
    Ta JAS

    …and thanks for all your tireless work on the new site John.

29. What on Earth have they done to the Crossword Club site? This new layout has ruined it for me, and I will no longer be doing the puzzles.

    1. It’s a disaster all round, agreed.

    2. I assume that some techno bod – who doesn’t even know what a crossword is – decided to “upgrade” the site. Hence almost universal misery….

30. DNF WETS, FRICTION (put Fraction) IBIDEM. And yes, I hoped Breach might mean buttocks.??
    Biffed JAMBOREE, DOORSTEP
    Liked LAMENT, LUST.
    A few MERs
    Thanks vm, John.
    I had an even worse start today as I printed off the 15×15 by mistake and could only solve one clue – then the penny dropped.

    1. 😂 very much the sort of thing I would do

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