Times Quick Cryptic No 1833 by Teazel

61 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1833 by Teazel”

1. I think I was on your wavelength, which is to say, this was an inexplicably excruciating solve. I think my brain is not working well for anagrams this evening, and this puzzle has many long ones. On a first pass I think I only got one or two answers confidently in.

   Isn’t MARMALADE CAT just a cryptic definition?

   1. I think you’re right about the cryptic definition. If you try to make the clue to “marmalade” your poor cat you’re doing the opposite of preserving it!
2. …and slipped through in 8:32, including proofreading. I had never heard of a marmalade cat, but what else could it be – so in it went. Both dandelion wine and life sentence were highly biffable, so the puzzle opened up quickly, with straightforward cluing and no obscure vocabulary.
3. I immediately saw that 12ac was ELISE, which slowed me down considerably with 6dn!
   1. Me too
   2. Same here!
      1. Elsie is OK for a woman I suppose because there aren’t too many Elsies still around. Elise would be OK for a girl!

         Edited at 2021-03-18 09:15 am (UTC)

         1. Yes. I initially though ELISE as I thought it sounded more “European” than ELSIE. Then I realised the answer was not a European woman’s name, but rather European = E.

         2. I think Elsie is becoming a bit more popular again with the Granny names trend, see also Eliza, Agnes, Betty etc

            1. Yes, I know of two under-ones calle Elsie! Also a Winnie, a Lenny and a Sidney 😯
4. I hit my 10-minute target but it was a very close thing as two of the long answers evaded me until the end and that slowed things down considerably. As a lifelong cat lover who’s very fond of marmalade, 1ac should have been easy but I suffered a blank spot.
5. I found this tricky. MARMALADE CAT went straight in but then I only got another two acrosses on the first pass. Really enjoyed REDONE which only came to me after a while pondering how to make ‘yellow’ fit. I was held up by MISTRANSLATES where I needed all seven checkers to be in place, DANDELION WINE which I don’t think I’ve heard of, the PENN of PENNANT and SPLEEN for bad temper which finally arrived via venting — I didn’t know spleen alone meant ‘bad temper’. I wonder if it is ever used without venting like hike is rarely seen without interest rates.
   1. What about going for a ‘hike’ across the moor?
      1. Thanks for the offer but it’s not really the weather!

         I was on second definitions.

6. A mainly straightforward solve but my last two in caused an lot of head scratching. NHO the cat in 1a but with hindsight it wasn’t a difficult clue – I’m putting my brain freeze down to the preserve being a vile concoction that’s best not thought about.
   That left me with MISTRANSLATES, where I had a lot of difficulty nailing down the definition and I had to resort to a painstaking alphabet trawl once all the checkers were in place.
   I got there eventually and finished in 12.04. Lots to enjoy, despite my struggles, but my favourites were REDONE and PLASTIC
   Thanks to Rotter
7. Very nice cluing which entertained for 30 minutes. Could not equate TOOL with Dupe. I tried to get it to work around FOOL but failed. Similarly 1A did not cause trouble but was rather peculiar. No trouble with SPLEEN not least for its Shakespearean usage and lots of involvement with black and yellow bile and the like. Liked REDONE and PENNANT very much as my JCOD. Surprised myself remembering William Penn from some corner of memory which removed the need to biff it. I too needed all the checkers for 3D which was my LOI.
   Thanks Teazel and Rotter

   Edited at 2021-03-18 08:46 am (UTC)

8. 
   FOI: 23a LIFE SENTENCE
   LOI: 14a TINPOT

   Time to Complete: 74 minutes

   Clues Answered Correctly without aids: 23/24

   Clues Answered with Aids (3 lives): 10a

   Clues Unanswered: Nil

   Wrong Answers: Nil

   Total Correctly Answered (incl. aids): 24/24

   Aids Used: Chambers

   When I saw Teazel as setter I prepared myself for a difficult clue, as apart from one previous Teazel solve, I do not usually do very well with their puzzles.

   First tour of the clues gave me one answer (23a).

   3d. MISTRANSLATES – I honestly did not think I was going to get this one without using an aid. In fact, I did use an aid initially, but did not find the answer. So, I left it for a while. When I came back to it, I spent too much time thinking “managed on tiles” was an anagram of on tiles, which really set me back. As more and more letters went in from other clues, the answer came to me. Now I see where I went wrong with the parts of the clues. I did feel that this clue was more of a 15×15 standard, but I am not complaining. I felt happy about being able to solve it.

   12a. ELSIE – When I first saw “school” I immediately thought of ETON. However, I quickly realised that Eton is in Windsor, near where I grew up, so that went out of the window. The only school I could think of in London was the LSE. Initially I entered ELISE, but that messed up another clue. Then I saw ELSIE.

   5d. DANDELION WINE – Got wine quickly but took me a while to see dandelion. Is dandelion wine really made from dandelions? When I was a little kid my mum always told me that if you picked dandelion leaves, you would wet the bed. There must be a lot of bed-wetting among the dandelion wine imbibers.

   20d. TOOL – My last one in and a little bit of hesitation to enter it. I did not equate DUPE = TOOL. But I guessed stolen goods was LOOT, and “picked up” was instructing me to spell LOOT backwards.

   An enjoyable puzzle.

   Edited at 2021-03-18 08:51 am (UTC)

   1. Great to see you fully solving more of these pw, and sometimes with little or no use of aids. I think I’m just a few months ahead of you in this game, and (for me) the satisfaction rating has increased a lot since I reached about the 50/50 level of success. Keep at it!
   2. Yes we did indeed make wine from dandelion (and elderflower)
      Nice puzzle but couldn’t get 3D even with all the crossers
9. I gave it almost 30 mins, but was 4 clues short today. I had PLASTIC for 15d, thinking about all those elastic bands discarded by postmen which cause a threat to wildlife. This nixed 14a.

   Other failures: LOCKET, DESERVE, CONFORM.

   I’ve never heard of Dandelion Wine, although Dandelion & Burdock is a 1970s drink you never see these days, along with Vimto and Tizer.

   Tool for dupe, I read that as vulgar slang, as in calling someone “a bit of a tool”.

   CLOGS and CLOD were similar words, in similar places in the grid, but clued differently. Having solved CLOGS I was convinced 8d was going to also be C—, with Cold=C.

   I thought 13A REDONE was a brilliant clue.

   1. Vulgarity? In the Thunderer? Surely not.

      Collins, 4th entry for “tool”:

      “If you describe someone as a tool of a particular person, group, or system, you mean that they are controlled and used by that person, group, or system, especially to do unpleasant or dishonest things.
      [disapproval]
      He became the tool of the security services. [+ of]
      Synonyms: puppet, creature, pawn, dupe”

      1. No problems with vulgarity here, but one clue in latest Everyman was another matter. Absolutely blatant, and on a Sunday too!
   2. Could you always tell it was Tizer when your eyes were shut?
      1. I remember Dandelion & Burdock as one of the range of fizzy drinks delivered door to door by the Corona man in the 1950’s and 1960’s. It was the one flavour we didn’t like as it tasted vaguely like cough medicine so after a couple of tries we gave up on it and stuck to the favourites. I think Cherryade was top of my list, whilst my brother liked American Cream Soda and Ginger Beer best.
         1. Tizer and Cream Soda are still available, of course.
            1. And Vimto, which in its cordial form is extremely popular in our house! I have to buy it in the giant bottles. Personally i think it’s horrid and definitely reminds me of cherry linctus 😧
         2. A shilling a bottle with three pence back on the empties, wasn’t it?
            1. You may be right, but perhaps a little later as that sounds a bit expensive for the days I remember.
               1. I think it went up from 9d to a shilling. We used to get three bottles, one orangeade, one lemonade and one by popular sibling vote. When it went up to a shilling we could not afford it and the deliveries stopped. Probably just in time before it caused dental disaster from its high sugar content. I seem to remember Limeade was particularly sickly.
10. A very pleasant 25 mins which entertained me through breakfast without demanding heavy concentration, which is how I like it. Wakes the brain without straining it too much early on. Liked REDONE and PLASTIC, enjoyed the cat and the wine, and smiled at the unlikely notion of only getting a few words out of a judge, but then this is Crosswordland.

11. I thought this was going to be hard after looking at four clues without an inkling; fortunately the next one went in and it was reasonably smooth after that. Lots of clever, tricky clues along the way.

    FOI (fifth one looked at) DANDELION WINE; LOI DESERVE; COD three-way tie between REDONE, PENNANT and NOBEL (I did like the Christmas wrapping!); time 09:16, estimated 1.9K and a Very Good Day.

    Many thanks Teazel and Rotter.

    Edited at 2021-03-18 09:54 am (UTC)

12. A steady solve held up by some of the longer clues. I shared the delays listed by contributors above, not least my LOI, MISTRANSLATES which was the only answer I did not parse properly — I was just pleased to fill it in and get the all clear. I took exactly the same time as therotter — a minute over target. (and, like rotter, wondered where the time had gone). Elsie was no problem as she was my late Mother in Law. I especially liked PLASTIC, ACCUSED, ELSIE, NOBEL, REDONE, and my COD CONFORM. Many thanks to Teazel and to rotter for a comprehensive but succinct blog. John M.

    Edited at 2021-03-18 09:44 am (UTC)

13. Took me 8:45.

    SPLEEN, PENNANT & TOOL were my last ones.

    I hadn’t helped myself by falling for ELISE, and also biffing PINNACE for PENNANT, thinking it was a naval flag, but it actually turns out to be a boat. SOrted itself out in the end though.

    I really liked REDONE – neat surface and device. Might be a chestnut, but I haven’t seen it before.

14. I finished just on my 20 minute target, which seemed a distant dream when I only had ELISE and NOBEL after the across clues. The downs were easier, I eventually spotted my mistake, and for once the checkers were very helpful.
    LOIs were MISTRANSLATES, then DESERVE and finally CONFORM.
    I’ve never had 5D, but a friend made some mango wine once which was closer to absinthe than merlot.
    An excellent QC from Teazel, thanks to Rotter for the blog.

    Brian

15. Quite a few of these were a bit of a stretch for me – technically valid but not very convincing as words in everyday use. Redone is the most obvious ( can anyone imagine anyone saying it?) but I’ve not heard tool used in that way – certainly heard it as a term of abuse. Never heard of Dandelion Wine and neither has my OED. Perhaps it was popular in a time when there were Elsie’s around 🙂
    1. We had our kitchen redone a couple of years ago. Seems OK as common usage to me. John
       1. Fair enough – so it is out there! maybe unimpressed rather than unconvinced
16. Yet again not on the right wavelength today, but I did at least get 1a — Orlando the Marmalade Cat was a favourite book as a child — and PENNANT was easy.

    I know there’s a game called snooker, but not playing it I couldn’t have known that the red ball’s value was one. I think that’s going a bit far.

    Oh well, I await Friday’s with some trepidation after a bad week

    But I do thank all you setters, bloggers and everyone else for a stimulating ( and often amusing) website.

    Diana

    1. I loved Orlando so much, Diana, that, 60 years later, I still have the book.

17. Not quite sure of my time as I had a white rather than marmalade cat sitting on me trying to chew my pencil for most of this! But I’d guess it was over the 20 mark. I couldn’t work out mistranslates for a long time as was trying to get an anagram of “on tiles but” in. But it is rather neat now I have it. Also got the red ball but don’t know anything about snooker so didn’t know what it was worth, again a neat clue once you get it. On the whole I think this was a nice balance of easier and trickier but gettable clues, thanks Rotter & Teazel

18. Like Rotter I’m not sure what is going on with the cluing for MARMALADE CAT and for me it was a late solve. However the clue that caused me the longest delay was MISTRANSLATES which was my LOI and put together very slowly from the wordplay MIST pause RAN pause SLATES and then belatedly seeing the definition. 10:42

    Edited at 2021-03-18 10:25 am (UTC)

    1. I saw PLATES before SLATES, but the real problem for me was not ‘hearing’ the solution in the right way. I could only get it to sound like ‘MIST RAN _LATES’ in my head, but (of course) hearing it as ‘MIS TRAN _LATES’ makes the answer obvious.
19. Interesting reactions to this puzzle. I found it easy at first. FOI was BRIEF and my only real issue was TOOL = DUPE? but I could not see anything better.
    After 11 minutes I needed 11a and 5d.
    My thinking on 11a was that you enlist and then you serve (which happens after you join); but it didn’t bother me unduly.
    5d was my downfall. Could not really see where the clue was going so relied on the cryptic: MIST RAN PLATES. I often derive words I have never seen before. But this one was wrong.
    15 minutes in all. COD to REDONE. A good test.
    David

    Edited at 2021-03-18 10:47 am (UTC)

    1. You are right, of course, but my only complaint was that it was 1a, the first clue, and I couldn’t solve it without crossers. It sprang to mind from hidden reaches.
       People seemed to have managed to solve it without undue difficulty.
       I said yesterday that I can no longer get exercised about the ‘legality’ of clues when a single answer emerges with no competition. These are puzzles. It would be different if alternative answers were possible leading to potential confusion (as with BRAN and MEAL in 1831). John
    2. There’s certainly no rule nor even convention that a two-word clue has to be a double definition, though because of its limitations it is quite likely to be so.

       I see 1ac as a cryptic definition of a pet associated with a preserve.

    3. I have often quoted what I refer to as Rotter’s First Law — two-word clues are invariably double definitions, but that doesn’t imply that they are always so. There are exceptions that prove the rule, as we used to say. Rotter’s First is an injunction to consider DDs.

       My own concern with 1a was more that I found myself unable to accurately classify the clue type. It certainly isn’t a DD despite being a two word clue. Neither do I believe it to be a straight cryptic, as some above have claimed. It just seems like a two word clue with a two word answer, where each word in the clue is a straight synonym for the corresponding word in the answer — hardly cryptic at all.

20. Only five acrosses on first pass but lots of downs going in so that this was two-thirds solved on first pass, easing the rest of the job considerably. Also helped by seeing the marmalade cat straight away. FOI 1ac for once. LOI plastic. Eight minutes. Mistranslates was deduced from the second clause of the clue and not fully parsed, and I was too idle to parse deserve. Thankful for a decent result after abandoning the 15 x 15 yesterday feeling like a kid sitting an exam about a lesson they had missed. All down to wavelength, I keep telling myself. Thanks, Rotter, for the blog, and Teazel for the puzzle. GW
21. Excellent QC …
    … which I much enjoyed. Like several earlier contributors I was slightly surprised at how long the puzzle took (13 minutes for me), especially as looking back there are no unfair clues or obscure words. Which I think makes it a first rate QC — challenging but fair, no nasty after-taste at all. Thank you Teazel!

    LOI was 3D Mistranslates; like others I needed all the checkers, built the answer bit by bit from the clue parts and then sat back to admire. So also my COD.

    Many thanks to Rotter for the blog
    Cedric

22. I seemed to be getting through this quickly enough but was held up for a while at the end by LOI MISTRANSLATES. MARMALADE CAT needed all the crossers, but was a familiar expression when I finally saw it. 10:49. Thanks Teazel and Rotter.
23. I didn’t think this was particularly straightforward and it took me 30 mins. Still have no idea what is going on with 1ac “Marmalade Cat”.

    Got bogged down with trying to fit Eton into 12ac and then put “Long Sentence” for 23ac until the Penny dropped for 18dn. Dandelion Wine isn’t the first thing that comes to mind when thinking home brew and I nearly invented a new word for 3dn.

    Saying that there were some clever clues and I did remember “spleen” for bad temper.

    FOI — 2dn “Accused”
    LOI — 3dn “Mistranslates”
    COD — 13ac “Redone”

    Thanks as usual.

24. A difficult one and needed a couple of aids to grind my way to the finish. Not sure of TOOL = DUPE, but nothing else fitted. Looks easier than it was on reflection with some neat clues.
25. Along with Orpheus, I always find Teazel the most challenging of the primary QC setters, so I was very pleased indeed to finish this puzzle – and in a good time (40 minutes) for me.

    MARMALADE CAT needed a lot of the checkers, and LIFE SENTENCE was nearly ‘Long’ SENTENCE. I also toyed with ‘Pendant’ before making the link with Pennsylvania, and I wasn’t at all sure that TOOL could mean dupe. In the end, however, the two clues that held out the longest were DESERVE, which required a slow/meticulous alphabet trawl, and 3d: MISTRANSLATES (my LOI).

    Even with all the checkers, I knew 3d would cause me some problems (I assumed it was a word I didn’t know), so I paused my clock and poured myself a second cup of coffee before settling in to work at deciphering the clue. It took me almost 10 minutes to get it, but I had to admire Teazel’s brilliant mis-direction (I just couldn’t think past building materials of some sort) and for this reason it has to be my COD.

    N.B. Mrs R is out today, so for a few hours at least, I can revel in the glory of being first to finish in the Random household.

    Many thanks to Teazel and to therotter for his excellent blog.

26. Biffed Essie without stopping to parse.
    Slow on SPLEEN, PENNANT, WHISTLE (clever) and pennies dropping extra slow on MISTRANSLATES.

    FOI CLOGS. Enjoyed MARMELADE CAT and then DANDELION WINE when I eventually solved it. Also liked TINPOT, LACKS and CONFORM.
    Thanks all, as ever.

    Edited at 2021-03-18 01:16 pm (UTC)

27. Not on the wavelength at all today. Found the bottom half relatively straightforward but the top half remained obstinate. I had to resort to aids to get 3dn and 1ac but even that didn’t help as I could not see past ELISE for 12ac. It does of course parse just as well as ELSIE and is a much more modern name – I don’t think I know anyone called Elsie but I know several called Elise. This of course made 6dn impossible.

    FOI – 13ac REDONE (strictly speaking this was the first correct one in as I had already entered the incorrect name at 12ac)
    LOI – DNF (6dn unsolved)
    COD – 17ac NOBEL

28. Just didn’t understand the meaning of 3D at all today, as was thinking of walls being rendered!

    Found the reference to Penn in 19A PENNANT a bit obscure — I was thinking Pilgrims in general.

    Very much liked the clues 10A CONFORM, 13D RENEWAL and 17A NOBEL for their clever clues.

    A do-able puzzle, with the necessary bit of challenge !

    1. Know what you mean about rendering — couldn’t get plastering and pebble dashing out of my head for quite a while
29. Lots of clever clues that were fun to solve. We finished in a very enjoyable 16 minutes.

    FOI: marmalade cat
    LOI: spleen
    COD: redone

    Thanks to Teazel and Rotter.

30. ….to “P-p-p-pick up a Penguin” at 19A. The painfully slow process of backing it out took me the best part of a minute, and reflected badly in my time.

    FOI MARMALADE CAT
    LOI LOCKET
    COD REDONE
    TIME 5:31

31. Late to the party today, but a similar experience to many of you, particularly in relation to 1a, 13a and 3d. ELISE had me confused for quite a while! Like Diana, I loved Orlando the Marmalade Cat — absolutely beautiful illustrations — but the clue was confusing in its simplicity.

    Still, a good puzzle completed in just a minute over target with some very satisfying PDMs. I thought REDONE, RENEWAL and PLASTIC were great.

    FOI Elise — except she wasn’t!
    LOI Mistranslated — apt considering the above
    COD Mistranslated

    Thanks Teazel for the entertainment / challenge and Rotter for the entertainment / illumination

    New series of Taskmaster tonight — hooray!

32. First thought for 1a Raspberry Jam! My joint breakfast favourite would be marmite… Forced myself to try 6d and then 7d to see it had to be -cat. But raspberry jam did fit… William Penn came straight to mind, and so Pennant was easy and then a moment or two to parse ‘ant’ to prove the matter. Had a couple of Lotus Elise in my time but settled for Elsie as a more traditional name. The A’s looked formidable so turned to the D’s and got a foothold. FOI 6d Clogs. LOI 3d Mistranslates – well clued once I got free of the anagram & other misdirections. COD – too much choice. Liked 20d, 21a, 19a, 18d, 5d.
    A formidable looking puzzle that began to work well once I found the wavelength, so thx to Teazel and to Rotter for his blog.
33. No problem with the cat although a bit more of a hint in the clue would have been nice.
    Trouble with rendering having been in the building trade
    Thanks all round
    Time 1 1/2 slow courses

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