Times Crossword 25,218 – topical Tour

48 comments on “Times Crossword 25,218 – topical Tour”

1. Bit of a wrestle today. As with Jerry, lots of problems with the 4-letter stuff. 13dn is fabulous; I was indeed speechless once sussed.

   24ac: Took the def to be “a pop”, as in “five bob a pop”.

   Still: glad Jerry was taking over the blog today; esp as I couldn’t parse HEY PRESTO!

   Edited at 2012-07-18 01:17 am (UTC)

2. Hi Jerry. 24 ac definition is actually “a pop” = each. Makes the clue much more subtle!
   1. Yes indeedy, thanks Ross.
3. Off to a racing start and once again all but a very few clues were solved within 30 minutes but I spent ages filling in the gaps. The problems were GUFF, EACH, PEJORATIVE and WELT. Actually I thought of WELT within the 30 minutes but was unable to justify ‘rain’ = WET as I was thinking verbs. Eventually I thought ‘going out in the rain/wet’ and it became clear how the clue worked.

   Congrats on such a speedy blog, Jerry!

   Edited at 2012-07-18 12:53 am (UTC)

4. I was right on the wavelength and ran through in 13:53 but fell for a careless HAY (presto). Another case of half-parsing a clue and paying for it.

   Nice puzzle, but.

5. I don’t think I have seen “over” used to indicate an insertion before. Is this common? I am still learning crosswords and try to make a note of these things for future reference.
   1. Yes, pretty common: you’ll also find the ubiqitous, multifunctional ‘about’ doing service as an inserticator, as well as ’round’, ‘around’ and, I suspect, many others.

      I believe, though others can confirm or correct, that ‘over’ can also be used as an indicator of ‘precedence’ in a down/vertical clue, similar to ‘on’, as well as being an indication of reversal, similar to ‘fronting’ in 19ac – and others, of course.

6. 42 minutes, and a similar experience to others, with the gimmes at the top going in a la Sever. Unlike others, though, I did well for once on the 4-letter clues, but unlike others to report so far, I stuffed up by shoving in ‘journalist’, my error discovered only in the post-solve check.

   My COD, in an excellent offering, to SUSS, with honorable mentions to 7 and 25.

7. Jerry, I think 6A is one=A; beer=JAR;

   As for others a very enjoyable puzzle, slightly on the easy side apart from some of the 4 letter words and a couple of complex wordplays. Good to see COPERNICUS and a decent clue to go with the great man. 20 minutes to solve.

8. A rare morning solve for me today, and suggestive of a clearer mind first thing, it was a very speedy for me ten minutes or so. I suspect it is more likely that this was an easy grid.

   To be honest I didnt even realise there was word play in TOUR DE FRANCE, such was the letter-count help. I did like SPEED CHESS as one of those clues where I stuck so closely to the wordplay that I ended up saying the answer out loud in broken form before even recognising the meaning, followed by a grin on matching it to the excellent definition. A sort of Homer Simpsonesque “what is this SPE-EDCH…ESS they speak of?”. My COD on that basis.

   I think much of the previous kerfuffle surrounding AJAR was whether it was synonymous with TO, that sneaky word that gets slipped in to devious clues in the same was as A for PER or EACH. AJAR is probably fairly easy to agree on as partially open, whereas TO was a toss up between as good as shut and fractionally open.

   Interesting note in the paper copy today, in the one page obituary for John Grant, highlighting his contributions to making times crosswords what they are today, is a big picture of him doing the telegraph crossword !

   1. No doubt he found his own xwords too hard! But can you be sure that it is the Torygraph’s he is doing? The Times’s was also once on the back page.
9. 18 minutes today. Like others, I started very quickly. Like others, I slowed down as the clues became trickier. Nothing unknown though, so very much the best kind of trickiness.
   Some great stuff in here. My favourite things were the lift and separate in “a pop star” and “divine” for SUSS.
   Jerry I’m surprised at your enthusiasm for the Tour given your strong disapproval of drug use when it pops up in the crossword!
   1. I’m very much with Jerry and his attitude to casual references to drug abuse in the crossword. However, I don’t think it would be right to tar and feather all competitive cycling just because of past horror stories. The authorities do seem to have taken a firmer grip recently.

      The sporting jesture by Armstrong was excellent and very much in the spirit in which competitive golf is played.

      1. What would your definition be for “casual references” or where do the boundaries lie. Notwithstanding anybody’s personal views on the subject, it is fairly intrinsically woven into the fabric of most of the arts and literature, from poetry to music, classical and contemporary.

         As a strongly scientifically oriented person, I would be interested to know whether you feel this field was in any way tainted. Some of the earliest leaps of faith which spurred whole changes in perception seem like prime candidates, yet very little is mentioned of any drug culture. Is this good PR, or were scientists just all very strait laced?

         1. Like you I simply don’t know about scientists and drug abuse. Certainly Copernicus worked out his hypothesis by making detailed observations of the movements of Mars and Saturn. These movements were inexplicable if one asumed that the earth was at the centre of these movements. They only made sense if one assumed relative movement between earth and other planets with the sun as the central point. His readings and logic are impeccable so I doubt assistance from drugs.
            1. I also find these drug-related terms irritating and inappropriate when they appear in the Times Crossword. They remind of when trendy young teachers try to endear themselves to their pupils by using “street smart” language.

               On the point about scientists, I was once told (from, admittedly, a not-very-reliable source) that the mathematician William Hamilton did much of his best work while pickled in Irish whiskey, and that the papers found after his death were interleaved with debris such as uneaten chops.

               1. No, I think the reason setters use drug references so much is nothing with trying to appear “trendy” but for the rather more prosaic reason that, perhaps, like cricket, there are a few terms which are particularly handy for cluing, not the least being E for ecstasy and H for heroin/horse.
                  1. This doesn’t explain things like “nose candy”, which sparked some debate in a recent club monthly.
                     I for one have no objection to this sort of thing: I regard it as all part of the language and not offensive in itself. Based on my personal experience alcohol is a far more damaging drug than anything that is illegal, but I accept that others will have different views based on different experiences.

                     Edited at 2012-07-18 03:58 pm (UTC)

                  2. Inasmuch as the setter has to pick a term from a list of possibilities, I go along with you; it’s just that I don’t see many “H for Hydrant”s or “E for Earl”s in the daily puzzle.

                     Were drugs legalized on the condition they be administered in suppository form only, I imagine we should see fewer references to heroin and ecstasy and more to “bomb, possibly” and “natural base”.

      2. Do you mean Wiggins? I certainly agree with you on the gesture.
         You may be right about the firmer grip – I don’t know. I want to believe it, but then I wanted to believe it about Armstrong. Didn’t we all?
         1. Yes, I meant Wiggins – freudian slip!
   2. Shhh! Jimbo’s around ‘n’ all! It’s 45 years since Tom Simpson died a drug-related death on M Ventoux, and in the interim I’m sure they’ve stamped drug use under, I mean, out – besides the poisoning cases, of course.

      Did you see the classic quote from the hero of the hour in the DT. Asked how his Aussie dad, himself a formner cyclist, would have reacted to his son’s success were he still alive, Wiggo retorted: ‘It’s difficult to say. It depends if he was sober.’

10. Found this tough: 49 minutes. Jerry, for 22 you may wish to put “one has”. A telling obituary for John Grant. “His guiding priciple was that every clue should read simply and elegantly.” One senses the economy and accuracy of thought and action over the life.
    1. Done, thanks; this blog is showing signs of shoddy workmanship!
       1. Highly enjoyable. About 45 mins, a respectable time for me, so a very do-able puzzle. As others have said, the four-letter solutions posed the biggest difficulties. GUFF and EACH were my LOIs. Once the E and C were in place at 24 ac there wasn’t much else the answer could be (other than ETCH, which clearly couldn’t be right), so I popped EACH in. But it was only much later that, as 26 ac has it, I managed to suss that the def was “a pop”. Ingenious clue.

          Nice obit of long-time Times xword editor (and setter) John Grant in today’s Thunderer. I knew him when he was Home News Editor and then Managing Editor during my own time on the paper, and can attest to the accuracy of the obit’s description of his character. He updated the cryptic for the modern age and an evolving school curriculum, abandoning the pretence that any crossword-solving reader of The Times, as the obit puts it, “would know their Aeschylus, Virgil and Milton” and vast chunks of English poetry by heart. He it was who, not before time, put the kybosh (do I hear a faint three cheers from the Dorset region?) on those clues of fill-in-the-blanks quotations which I remember from the 1960s and which may well have survived into the 1970s. As the obit says, however, he also “sought to preserve a measure of cultural reference” at the heart of the Times crossword. And I for one am grateful for that, even though I agree with Jimbo that the range of reference should encompass scientific as well as literary/artistic culture.

          1. It would be nice if this obit. could be placed on the Crossword Club website .. are you there, Peter B?

             Later: whether thanks to Peter or not, indeed the obit. is now on the crossword club website

             Edited at 2012-08-26 08:39 am (UTC)

          2. Mike, thanks for posting the info on John Grant – we have much to thank him for and remember him by.
11. 16:35 for what I thought was a very entertaining puzzle. Lots to like, not least spotting the YPRES at the heart of HEY PRESTO.

    As one who subscribes to the puzzle but doesn’t read the paper, thank you for the reports of John Grant’s obituary. Coincidentally I was informed yesterday of the death of David Stockton, who taught me Ancient History at Oxford many years ago. As a don of the old school, he regularly suggested that we follow tutorials by going to the snug bar of the King’s Arms, where he gave me further – and, as far as I was concerned, more useful – education in how to solve the Times crossword while drinking beer (he was fast enough as a solver to finish second to John Sykes in the competition some time in the early 70s, and as a setter produced the Oxford Times cryptic when these things were still done in house). RIP both.

    Edited at 2012-07-18 10:57 am (UTC)

    1. Thank you for the information about David Stockton, ome of my predecessor setters (Mastodon) at the Oxford Times. We never met but I was able to pass on this news to Colin Dexter who knew him well as a crossworder and as one of his examiners at the local exam board. Last month my old friend and neighbour John Chavasse (Ichabod of the Oxford Times) also died. The old order passeth. John Grant was a very good old professional, and I was delighted when he took me on to The Times team. Don Manley
12. Enjoyable puzzle, finished in 30 mins but had to read the blog to parse pejorative and hey presto… Didn’t see Ypres, clever stuff. Watching the T de F as I write this, we went up the col de tourmalet last year and I was tired enough just driving. I believe the drugs scene is now well monitored.
13. Jerry – re Carter at 3 down – does Indiana Jones count?! More famous I think than HC or TR.

    Two mistakes today – Journalist not Journalese and a I-knew-it-wasn’t-right guess at Pelt for Welt. Held up for a long time in the SE corner by Pejorative, but the rest went in quite quickly. “Revealing remark” for Hey Presto raised a smile.

    Might not blog tomorrow because I’m at Lytham to see Westwood, McIlroy, Woods et al tackle the links. Can’t wait…!

14. 45 minutes for this most enjoyable brainteaser. Thanks to Jerry et al for sorting out CAPER and EACH: I’d bought the dummy in the former (upper limit = R) and don’t think I’ve ever met “a pop”, though I vaguely remember “a bash”.

    Took a while to parse HEY PRESTO, where I had my mind fixed on the Battles of Preston (1648 and 1715) fought just across the river from here and from which folks still dig up the occasional musket ball or spur.

    Misled by thinking that “or”, printed as it was in italic type, had greater significance in 8 down.

15. I started doing The Times Crossword in the early 80s, and always found the quotation clues annoying – not because of my lack of a classical education, but because they weren’t cryptic clues. If you didn’t know the quotation, you either had to guess the answer from the context and checkers, or simply look it up in a book (cheating to my mind). You couldn’t work it out from the wordplay. It was one of the reasons I changed to the Independent in around 1990, and enjoyed that puzzle daily until the crossword editor decided to abolish the brand names and living persons rules, and the grid became full of answers like ‘Audi’ and ‘U.P.S.’ and the names of celebrities of whom I’d never heard. When I returned to The Times about 5 years ago I was delighted to find that the quotation clues were no more. The Times is now by far the best crossword to my mind. So thanks, John Grant, you made me a happy man.
16. ….as I got most of it in 30 minutes, and then was stuck for a long time trying to get ‘pejorative’ and ‘journalese’. I knew that the latter probably ended in ‘-ese’, and still couldn’t think of it. I finally saw ‘ajar’, and everything fell into place.
17. I don’t know if it possible but I think my crossword solving ability is getting worse. Today for instance I only got a few clues before hitting a mental wall and coming to the blog. It is probably an understatement to say I get disheartened when I see people saying crosswords like this are easy and solving them in unthinkably fast times. I have been looking at the daily for months and have only completely solved one puzzle.
    1. For what it’s worth, I would not rate this as ‘easy’.

       Apart from some tricky wordplay, there are numerous examples of well-disguised definitions, something we seem to be seeing more of lately (I blame that Dean Mayer!). These can be a major obstacle, especially if you’re relatively new to solving. The only suggestion I can offer is to focus hard on one clue at a time and try to figure out what the possible definitions within a clue might be, mark them off with a line or jot them down, say:

       – A
       – A pop
       – A pop star
       – out of contact
       – contact

       and work through each one, saying “Okay, if it’s that then the rest is probably wordplay so….”.

       Maybe do something like that for the multi-word answers initially, as you’re getting an extra bit of help from the enumeration.

       And keep at it. Even if you’re not finishing them you’re giving the grey matter a valuable work-out. And don’t come here too readily. In fact, go away and don’t come back until you’ve finished another one! Good luck. (if all else fails, try Tim’s approach recommended above, which involves beer).

       1. Yeah I guess I don’t spend long enough trying to break down each clue…thanks for the advice.

          Edited at 2012-07-18 05:27 pm (UTC)

    2. I’ve been doing these puzzles for 55 years so it’s hardly surprising that I’m going to find things easy that you find difficult.

       When I started I rarely finished a puzzle unaided. A small group of us toiled away and then an encouraging English teacher helped us to understand the solution when it appeared the following day. It was some years before I finished the puzzle on a regular basis

       If you keep going and use the blog sensibly you will get there in time – if it was too easy would it really be worthwhile?

18. Did this in dribs and drabs during a rehearsal for a show. Good fun puzzle, everything came out clearly, some nice wordplay too.
19. Thanks for the encouragement, I suppose that it shouldn’t be easy. I know the compilers have to satisfy experienced solvers like you. I know I need more practise, actually trying to work the solutions out. The trouble is that the fantastic reliability of the blog can make it too tempting as an aid, so like Sotira said I need to spend more time on the puzzle.
20. Enjoyable, very clever puzzle. About 25 minutes. Commendations to SPEED CHESS, EACH, SUSS, GUFF and HEY PRESTO. (Although over here, I think it’s more usually just “Presto!”). Regards to all, setter included.
21. 34.20 over a meal at Efes in Cambridge – in all ways a pleasant experience. And I did raise a glass to John Grant whose professional expertise and leadership have enabled me to enjoy hours of pleasure ( and frustration). Thank you, John!
22. My bad patch seems to go on and on, with a disappointing 18:46 today. Once again I made heavy weather of some easy clues.

    A very fine puzzle though, so my compliments to the setter.

23. I thought The Times had a rule that ‘one’ was always ‘i’? In that case how does ‘One beer’ = ‘a jar’ in 6ac?

    Perhaps I’m incredibly ignorant or naive or both, but I can’t for the life of me see how ‘each’ = ‘a pop’ in 24ac.

    Edited at 2012-07-18 10:09 pm (UTC)

    1. Each = “a pop,” as in “They cost £40 a pop.”
       I pay no attention to crossword “unwritten rules” generally; my impresson is that one = a quite often.
    2. The one=i rule is (almost) set in stone in my experience, FOR WORDPLAY. “one” can almost never indicate the letter “a” in constructing the answer.

       However I think “a jar” = “one beer” in natural language, no construction or wordplay involved. That’s how I justified it.

24. Hi. Taking great pleasure from this recently discovered site! As a poor amateur in this (I shall ignore the many years I have been trying) it is good to see some of the answers explained – how often does one know the answer but not quite understand how to parse?! Small (and probably daft) question. Why OR for men?? I got Tour de Force/France but didn’t see the logic.
    1. OR is an army abbreviation for “other ranks,” ie men, as opposed to officers.
       Small piece of advice: obtain a copy of a good dictionary such as Chambers, and develop the habit of looking up every word you come across, that you haven’t previously met. Gradually, your vocabulary expands..

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