Times 25,217

Author   topicaltimPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Zipped through in 10.01 online, so without any evidence as to other people’s experience yet, I can only conclude this was either: a) pretty straightforward, or b) bang on my personal wavelength. A couple of things gave me pause for thought as I solved, so I shall see if they turn into fully-fledged quibbles after a slightly more careful examination (answer: not really, no). Anyway, for a puzzle that wasn’t the toughest, this one had some nice touches, I thought.

Across
1 LUMBERJACK – LUMBER(=land, as in landed with a problem) + JACK(tar).
7 ECRU – Enter + CRU. Cru is generally translated as “growth” in English, which doesn’t really convey the idea that it refers to a specific area, such as an individual vineyard, rather than something more intangible like “vintage”.
9 BAVARIAN – [V(5 being the small number) + ARIA] in BAN.
10 NEEDLE – cryptic def. Even after looking it up, I’m slightly baffled by the technicalities of petit point, but I knew it related to needlework, which was quite sufficient to start with.
11 SAMSON – SAM(Surface-to-Air Missile) + Store + ON(operating). “One with strength in locks” is a not too tough allusion to a well-known Bible story. A recent repeat of Q.I. pointed out that you can win a bet with the Biblically ill-informed who are prepared to wager it was Delilah who cut off Samson’s hair (it was in fact a servant, whom she summoned for the purpose).
13 LAWMAKER – double def. Does Sod’s law actually have a maker? I suppose if it does, it must be the original eponymous poor sod.
14 BELL-BOTTOMED – [BOTTOM in BELLE] + Departs. The trousers which were the height (and width) of fashion in 1972.
17 SHOOTING STAR – cryptic def. Bisley is the traditional home of British target shooting.
20 PEARDROP – P + EAR-DROP. For those unfamiliar with the British sweet shop, the wiki article reveals their status as our 14th most popular sweet.
21 WEEVIL – WE + (LIVE)rev.
22 ERMINE – i.e. “…ER…MINE”. This was one where I had pause for thought, as the clue seemed to dictate that “Judge” must be the definition, which suggested a meaning outside my knowledge. However, Judges wear ermine on their robes, and it does indeed seem that “ermine” has come to mean “judge” by metonymy.
23 TURNOVER – double def. Mmmm…turnover.
25 SONG – Spades ON Garden.
26 SCRUTINEER – “SCREW” + TIN + E’ER.
 
Down
2 UNABATED – UNA + “BAITED”.
3 BOA – BOAT without the Time. It took me a while to twig that the ‘cat’ here was a catamaran.
4 REIGN – Grand in REIN.
5 ANNULET – ANNUL + EVENT without the VEN.
6 KINSWOMAN – (MONKSAWIN)*.
7 EMERALD ISLE – (ALLREMEDIES)*. Clare being the place, not a person, of course.
8 ROLLER – double def., the big wave and the vehicle which flattens tarmac.
12 SELF-SERVING – double def. The cafeteria in question would be self-service, obviously.
15 ODOURLESS – University in (ROSESOLD)*.
16 BALINESE – LINE in BASE.
18 TAPSTER – Pub in TASTER; another one where I paused, mostly because this looks like it’s going to be an &lit. but doesn’t quite turn out to be (I think the definition has to be the rather vague “employee” – the whole clue doesn’t work as a definition, and you can’t just lift “employee in pub”, as that means the pub is then doing double duty). Still, the mention of the pub gives an definite nudge towards the occupation of the employee.
19 WEIRDO – WEIR(foot of dam) + DO(as in “do” Venice).
21 WORST – boW OR STepney.
24 OWN – double def.

39 comments on “Times 25,217”

  1. I didn’t find this as easy as others, finishing in 43 minutes – admittedly not helped by bunging in ‘self service’. This made 25 hard, especially so since WEIRDO (my COD) was a tricky clue.

    Despite a fast start, I found I had gaps in all four corners (2 and 9 in the NW; 7 in the NE [didn’t know the colour ECRU]; and 16 and 26 in the SE), so even allowing for my self-served trials, this would have been a 30+ minute puzzle for me.

    I thought the Bisley clue might cause a spot of trouble, but the checkers are very generous, so probably not.

    Edited at 2012-07-17 02:03 am (UTC)

  2. 13:40, but one error; unthinkingly put in ‘tear-drop’ instead of ‘pear-drop’. LOI ANNULET, which I wasn’t sure was a word (putting in ‘annular’ at first didn’t help matters). I was wondering about ‘sod’, having forgotten that what we Murcans call Murphy’s Law is called Sod’s Law yonder.Had no idea what ‘Bisley’ referred to, but as Ulaca says, the checkers were generous. ECRU is another NY Times chestnut.

    Edited at 2012-07-17 03:40 am (UTC)

    1. I’m not sure that Murphy’s Law and Sod’s Law are entirely synonymous, ‘though there is obviously overlap. While the former is generally understood as ‘If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong’, the latter seems to me rather broader with the central idea of being scorned by fate, as when, after days of rain, you decide to give a friend your ticket to watch the cricket and the day dawns fair.

      Edited at 2012-07-17 03:51 am (UTC)

      1. I think you’re right. As I understand it, the difference is that Murphy’s Law is a real process which is supposed to be part of any engineering task, or major project management i.e. when building the world’s largest ocean liner you build it to survive collision with an iceberg, and if someone says it’s too expensive to anticipate something so unlikely, Murphy’s Law is there to remind you that the worst possible outcome will probably happen, so you should proceed as if it’s inevitable. Likewise, if you’re planning the world’s largest sporting event, you should actively expect negative outcomes, such as, I don’t know, that your security contractor will fail to provide any actual security, and make appropriate contingency plans…

        I did wonder if 21 down was an oblique reference to this but it’s probably just one of those things.

  3. 27 minutes for all but 19 and 25, or so I thought but I had already lost the plot by bunging in SELF SERVICE at 12dn. WEIRDO went in at 34 minutes and I then spent ages going through the alphabet in vain sorting through dozens of ?O?E possibilities for the remaining answer. Eventually I realised my error at 12 and solved 25 at the next glance.

    I didn’t know that (as confirmed in Collins) ‘ermine’ can mean ‘the office of a judge’ but I’ve heard it used for peers in the House of Lords in general who of course include judges in their number.

  4. Not much to say today. Straight solve. Didn’t like the sod or the ER … MINE much.
    Why does the online version separate “fl” and “ares” (14ac)? It seems to do this sort of thing a fair bit.
  5. Bit of an reasy ride at 11:20; held up momentarily by my last two in, being weevil and weirdo. All very pleasing though.
  6. Quick solve for the most part over breakfast but a DNF because I made the Self-Service mistake and couldn’t get Song or Weirdo.

    I’m with anon above in frowning at Turnover = Cash flow. Cash inflow maybe but even then only in the simplest of businesses.

    Thanks Tim for the trivia re Samson & Delilah, the Pear-Drop link and for deciphering Annulet – I couldn’t see how to get the ET part.

    I read on wikipedia that Bisley, the UK’s National Shooting Centre, isn’t being used for the shooting at the Olympics because the IOC deemed it too far from London (it’s in Surrey). Instead the shooting is at the Royal Artillery Barracks in Woolwich.

    1. Yes; this has enabled them to build several new shooting ranges at considerable cost, which they will tear down as soon as the games have ended, and thus avoid having to invest in a sport now heavily out of favour.
      1. Is there still a rifle range within the Palace of Westminster? Using that might have been fun, though perhaps short on spectators.
  7. ……but agree with earlier on cru, and turnover does not necessarily equate to cash flow as a lot of start ups will appreciate.
  8. As for others a stroll in the park and with the same reservations.

    I thought Murphy rather than sod would actually improve the surface reading of the clue. The setter clearly isn’t in business since confusing turnover with cashflow is a good way of going broke.

    I also entered SELF-SERVICE but was lucky enough to solve 29A straight from the clue (lay=song=knee jerk reaction) so realised my mistake (I really don’t like those loose cryptic definitions)

  9. Chambers defines turnover as “the total amount of money changing hands in a business” and cashflow as “the movement of money in and out of a business,” which seem pretty darned synonymous to me. Having spent my working life in the financial world, some of it analysing balance sheets, I would not regard either word as very precise. I used turnover to mean “total money in,” and cashflow usually to mean “the relationship between monies in and out,” but both words carry other meanings too.
    1. I’ve learned that all of these terms are pretty vague. “Profit” for example is an accounting concept rather than something that’s hard defined. Mind you when it comes to vagueness “actuarial surplus” takes some beating!
    2. Indeed. Anyone who regards things like “turnover” and “profit” as precise terms needs to get a better accountant.
      1. I’d have thought turnover meant ‘sales’, assuming any sales invoiced are paid for. Cash flow is another concept altogether, requiring money to flow in and out, but there again I’m only a certified accountant so maybe I’m wrong.
        I put self service so couldn’t get ‘song’ right and DNF, otherwise did it all in 15 minutes.
        Managed 39 points today, jimbo, in 28 degrees heat, hope Dorset is drying out.
        1. Thanks for your concern. Our Riverside Course has surfaced from below the Stour and can just about be walked over. Our Parkland course now resembles the constituency of a well used sponge with the odd unplanned lake dotted about. It is 24 hours since it last rained – first time we can say that for some time.

          I trust you’re wearing your bandit’s mask!

        2. As a chartered accountant myself I can’t disagree with you!
          However for the purposes of the Times crossword I think TURNOVER and “cashflow” are close enough, especially with a question mark.
  10. 16 minutes, so not a total gimme, slowing in the NE where ECRU went in unremembered on wordplay and hope, and LAWMAKER finally went in with a shrug – the “sod” drove me towards lawn as a component. Maybe I’m not as down and dirty as the Times these days. Don’t think it quite works, but maybe Murphy or Boyle would have been too much of a giveaway.
    I was happy with “pub” in 18 doing its double duty.
    ERMINE produced a smile, SCRUTINEER a nod of appreciation and CoD, TURNOVER the shrug of one innocent of accountancy.
  11. DNF. I stared at 16dn for ages but was convinced the island was going to be Hawaii…
    Just kidding. 9 minutes.
    “Cru” does indeed refer to a specific vineyard. The terms “premier cru” and “grand cru” in Burgundy refer to very specific plots of land. The same general principle applies in Bordeaux, although they’re a bit less strict about it there. If Chateau Latour buys a plot of land from a less exalted neighbour, then as long as it’s in Pauillac they can put it in the wine and call it Premier Grand Cru Classé.
    If you don’t believe me, believe Chambers: “a vineyard or group of vineyards”.
    Turnover and cashflow are not the same thing at all, but any quibble that requires knowledge of accounting is inadmissible.
  12. Just over a quarter of an hour for this jolly puzzle. Held up by LAWMAKER, where I was another who thought that sod might have something to do with LAWN, and WEIRDO, because I never have been able to spell WIERD.

    Interested to see from Tim’s link that PEAR DROPs are still being made in Blackburn, Lancashire. I thought they had disappeared, along with sherbet lemons, acid drops and black jacks and other sticky delights that used to keep dentists in full employment doing fillings and extractions. Puzzling that the nation’s teeth, pace popular US opinion, have improved since the 1950s while obesity is much more common. Can fewer caries be simply the result of fluoride toothpaste?

    1. Another member of the weird/wierd club. How nice! At least this time it wasn’t a guess. I too was thinking of lawns. Sweet nostalgia. Do they still make those heart things with valentine messages that fizz in the mouth? 16 minutes after trouble with the song because I was another of the self-service types.
        1. Oh yes, Love Hearts it is. Although “text me maybe” isn’t quite the same somehow. A Quarter Of though could do it.
      3. Yes they do. My wife recently bought me a Retro Sweets Gift Box for my birthday and it included Love Hearts as you mentioned, Wham Bars, Refreshers, Fizzy Cola Bottles, Gobstoppers, Black Jacks, Fruit Salads , Popping Candy and a load more of teeth rotting sweeties from my childhood!! Well worth buying a box for the sake of nostalgia. My kids ended up with most of them though!
        Roger
  13. Ah, sherbet lemons. 18 minutes, with an ouch over do for explore. I think it’s how it can often be used, rather than whether it’s a more or less exact synonym, that makes an answer viable: so I have to accept “do” and maybe the financial experts “turnover”. The solver’s weevil in the peardrop perhaps.
    1. A logophile is a lover of words. A lexophile is someone who likes reading the back page of the FT.
    2. I knew there had to be a reason why I preferred the old haystacks to those modern rolls of hay – they’re just so much better for sprunting.
  15. I know it was easy, and I do solve as fast as I can without savouring all the nuances, but I cannot believe that I just completed it in 3:56 online.

    It is very rare for me to be under 5 minutes and although I can’t remember my previous best I think it was around 4:45, so a big reduction.

    Sorry for the self-congratulatory tone, but I felt I had to say something.

    Edited at 2012-07-17 12:53 pm (UTC)

    1. Crikey, well done… the champ will be looking nervously over his shoulder come October!
    2. Very impressive. If you can repeat that under competition conditions, this year’s contest could be a classic!
    3. Awesome! Also very nice to add another name to the kosher list of fast solvers (as opposed to the you-know-whos).
  16. 11:27 on the club timer, so not among the speediest. I needed those checking letters badly, as I didn’t really get LAWMAKER, SHOOTING STAR, the wordplay for SCRUTINEER or ANNULET.
  17. Well, I feel like the tortoise after reading the above. About 35 minutes, and although many went in right away, I clearly was held up by several, and I also went the self-service route at first. The hold-ups included the LAWMAKER, since I didn’t think of sod’s law, the SCRUTINEER (screw=payment unknown), Bisley, and unclear of what the judge had to do with ERMINE. But got there in the end, and I send off a salute to the 3:56 time. I doubt I could write them in that fast if I knew all the answers. Regards to all.
  18. A miserable 10:25, when I’d been heading for a time nearer half that – all down to carelessly bunging in SELF-SERVICE. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one, though. I should have spotted my mistake quicker, but was totally spooked by those nasty vowels in ‑O‑E. (The sort of thing one dreads in the Championship!

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