28042 Thursday, 29 July 2021 When Quince the Eskimo gets here…

Author   ZabadakPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
A pleasingly catholic mix of science and arts, history and politics where you can feel chuffed if you have the relevant breadth of knowledge, but apart from 4ac, perhaps, it doesn’t matter if the background information is outside your ken.
I swanned through this in somewhat piecemeal manner, taking a total of 18 minutes, and timing my submit to get the nice round number. As I like to do on a blogging day, I parsed everything as I went along, though I’m still not completely comfortable with 13dn.
You’ll all be pleased to know that today I have come out of mandatory isolation, ten days of making the contents of my fridge/freezer stretch to the limit, so none of you is in any danger of the pandemic virus as you read my ramblings. Members of my family who contracted Covid are thankfully recovering, though it’s too early to know if there will be any longer-term effects.
I present my findings below, with clues, definitions and SOLUTIONS
Across
1 Yank coming across hard and tough (4)
THUG Yank here is just TUG, “coming across” means it surrounds, in this case, H(ard)
4 Near iconic manoeuvring of ancient politician (10)
CICERONIAN Cicero “was a Roman statesman, lawyer, scholar, philosopher and Academic Skeptic” of immense significance in the development of the Republic around the time of Julius Caesar, famous for his oratory which set standards for political and philosophical debate, which is the bit we need to know to develop the adjective from his name. The clue is &littish, an anagram (manoeuvring) of NEAR ICONIC
9 Like a councillor to be tree-crazy (10)
ALDERMANIC The tree is ALDER, crazy gives MANIC
10 Chaps in rags (4)
GUYS I thought there might be many alternatives here, given the crossing letters, but fortunately our answer is doubly defined, guys in the second instance being rags in the sense of ridicules or makes fun of.
11 Stage carpenter may be in a jam (6)
QUINCE So not whatever the theatre equivalent is of chippie, but the joiner from A Midsummer Nights Dream. And a fruit we once harvested in our garden which Mrs Z successfully made into a palatable jelly.
12 Marconi for example on Isle of Wight holiday, forgetting a name (8)
INVENTOR The IoW holiday destination is IN VENTNOR, where I once attended a Boys Brigade camp. Forget one of the Ns. Marconi was (as any skuleboy kno) celebrated as the inventor of radio.
14 With stick, finally force waste away (4)
PINE Stick is PIN, add the last of forcE.
15 Laying out corpse, used correct legal form (3,7)
DUE PROCESS  I worried this might be Latin, known or not, but it turns out that the anagram (laying out) of CORPSE USED is plain English. Phew.
17 Current collector’s chart on seasonal entertainment (10)
PANTOGRAPH Cunning definition. Electric railway engines picking current up from overhead cable use a flexible parallelogram framework (as I’m sure you’ve seen). That’s what this is, made up here of PANTO as seasonal entertainment and GRAPH as chart.
20 Military vehicle hummed, emitting sulphur (4)
TANK Hummed here in the sense of smelled bad, STANK, emitting (losing) S(ulphur)
21 For each piece of leather husband, avoided strong chemical (8)
PEROXIDE Most familiar perhaps as blondifying liquid, one of the simplest chemicals H2O2. PER means for each, OXHIDE is the leather, remove the H(usband) (avoided) probably a good idea when the process is going on. The husband’s only role is to say how lovely it looks afterwards.
23 Plant maize occasionally at the side of a pasture (6)
AZALEA Take alternate (occasionally) letters of mAiZe and attach them to the side of A LEA, pasture.
24 Buzzer wasn’t loud? (4)
WASP Like this, simple as it may be. Wasn’t loud, so WAS P (musical soft)
25 Greek and another European secure trouble-free route to top job? (6,4)
GREASY POLE We are indebted to Disraeli for this description of the route to the Premiership of the UK. GR(eek) and POLE (the other European) “secure” EASY for trouble free, which obviously it was not.
26 Excelled with way to crack homework: cheating! (10)
DISHONESTY My last in. Excelled gives SHONE, the way is ST(reet) both enclosed in DIY for homework, Do It Yourself home repairs and such.
27 Parties at hotel making money (4)
DOSH Parties are DO’S, and the H comes this time from H(otel)
Down
2 Be deluded, giving order to heal lunatic (11)
HALLUCINATE An anagram (giving order to) of HEAL LUNATIC
3 Young, run vigorously in protected area (5,4)
GREEN BELT In the UK, an area of rural delights you’re not supposed to build on. Young is GREEN, and those of you that understood race giving SHOOT a couple of days ago will find run vigorously giving BELT a bit easier.
4 Approve remark with one final change (7)
COMMEND One of those clues which is content with asking for a change of one letter (here the end one) to another completely random one, in this case T at the end of COMMENT (remark) to D.
5 Generosity in debates about reformed senate (15)
CONSIDERATENESS CONSIDERS for debates incloses an anagram (reformed) of SENATE.
6 Get better to lay bet off again (7)
RECOVER Laying off a bet covers the bookie against losses, so he or A N Other does it more than once is RE-COVER
7 One night in Montreal: I’ve come a long way south? (5)
INUIT I’m informed that Montreal is indeed a distance south of Inuit territory. Since Montreal is Francophone(ish), night there is NUIT. Put one (I) on the beginning.
8 Hangman perhaps dispatching old Punch (5)
NOSER A hangman might fancifully be called a NOOSER. Take out one of the O(ld)s
13 Director wants George to introduce boy and two neighbours at play (5,6)
ORSON WELLES Actor/director of Citizen Kane and that notorious radio version of War of the Worlds. Now, I’ve got George as ORWELL to introduce SON for boy, and the best I can do for the remaining E and S is that they are two neighbours on a compass. Not sure where “at play” comes in. Suggestions?
16 Was briefly unconscious of animal tipped to win (9)
CATNAPPED  The random animal is a CAT, and NAPPED does indeed mean tipped to win in horse racing terminology.
18 Bad behaviour initially stamped out, but not stopped (5,2)
GOING ON Bad behaviour is GOINGS ON, but instead of eliminating the first letter as looks prescribed, you eliminate the initial letter of Stamped.
19 No evidence of bits of grain in grass (7)
HEARSAY Bits of grain are EARS, place inside HAY for grass. Inadmissible evidence in court
21 Pressure was frightening, felt by dog? (5)
PAWED P(ressure) plus AWED for was frightening
22 Gets bigger flags, dropping one (5)
RISES Flags (the flowers) are IRISES. Remove one of the I’s

76 comments on “28042 Thursday, 29 July 2021 When Quince the Eskimo gets here…”

  1. The E and S are East and South in a game of bridge. Thanks for a great blog of a tasty puzzle that wrong-footed me a few times. Got there in the end in 23.02.
  2. to spent 43 minutes over brekker – ‘six treasure’ porridge and half a South African grapefruit, Blue Mountain Coffee. We have an all day photo-shoot for’er indoors, with Mr.’Sunset’ (I ask you!) The Smudger. Never a dull moment hereabouts!

    Didn’t want this puzzle to stop – surely 11ac Jelly is preferable to 11ac jam, Mr. Myrtilus? (Our resident expert on such matters)

    FOI 27ac DOSH!

    LOI 14ac PINE and not WILE

    COD 17 ac PANTOGRAPH – I used one all the time in my arty-farty youff!

    WOD 9ac ALDERMANIC which is a bit of a stretch!

    Nice to see ORSON WELLES out and about. I recently watched that film about his making of ‘Citizen Kane’ I’d not seen it before – OK – but I preferred ‘The Cat’s Whiskers’ with Eddie Izzard as Charlie Chaplain.

    Edited at 2021-07-29 02:18 am (UTC)

    1. Membrillo is the Quince stuff that springs to mind. Great with tangy cheese.
      1. I have some in my fridge courtesy of my daughter supplied with some Spanish cheese. Very tasty.
  3. 27mins for me. Some unusual variations on more common words today: CICERONIAN, ALDERMANIC, CONSIDERATENESS.
  4. No idea what was going on with ORSON WELLES, but it was quite biffable. As was DISHONESTY, which I only parsed post-submission. DNK NAPPED. Surely the comma in 21ac was misplaced?
  5. The first ancient politician to occur to me was Nero and the “of” suggested
    “ic”, so I cobbled together Nerocianic. Plausible and pleasing, but a non-starter with the crossers when they came. Otherwise I liked Wasp. Nice to hear everyone is well, z

    Edited at 2021-07-29 11:44 am (UTC)

  6. 13dn was (even more) confusing for me because Orson Welles’ first name was in fact George!
  7. 33 minutes, taken over the half hour with the innocuous looking PINE which wouldn’t come without the almost obligatory run through the alphabet. NOSER was new to me too and QUINCE was half guessed. I agree about the awkwardness of CONSIDERATENESS, but liked ALDERMANIC, exactly how Graham Gooch must have felt in 1989.

    My only quibble was with HALLUCINATE for ‘Be deluded’. Although “hallucination” is given as one sense of “delusion” (in Chambers anyway), it’s interesting to see that in the entry for “hallucination”, the second sense is given as “(loosely) hallucination”. To me, a “hallucination” is a sensory perception in the absence of a real sensory stimulus, whereas a “delusion” is a fixed, false belief. Not exactly the same thing.

    Thanks to blogger (and welcome back to as real a world as we have at the moment) and to setter

  8. 25 minutes. I forgot to go back and parse ORSON WELLES, an answer that was very easily biffed. I didn’t know NOSER as a punch but having arrived at it from wordplay it seemed likely enough. LOI was INCONSIDERATENESS, an ugly and awkward derivative.

    Edited at 2021-07-29 10:28 am (UTC)

  9. Flute, the bellows-mender! Snout, the tinker!

    25 mins with LOI Quince. The “if you have a U, try a Q” maxim eventually helped.
    Mostly I liked Pawed.
    Thanks setter and Z.

  10. 21:36
    Nice puzzle. LOI pantograph: NHO it, but wordplay was easy.
    Thanks, z; glad you’re back in circulation 🙂
    1. Thanks, but this was covered in the very first comment at the head of the discussion.

      Edited at 2021-07-29 12:39 pm (UTC)

  13. Vaguely remembered that QUINCE is a type of jam, but completely missed the Shakespeare reference. Didn’t know ‘napped’ means ‘tipped to win’, but CATNAPPED couldn’t have been anything else. Completely misparsed HALLUCINATE, thinking it was an order (‘lucinat’) being inserted into an anagram of ‘heal’… well, I got there in the end I suppose.

    FOI Thug
    LOI Pine
    COD Greasy pole

  14. Couldn’t get into the club this morning, had to find a pen.

    Fortunately PINE and GUYS fell quite quickly once the çrossers were in place, such word structures always make me anxious. I didn’t think much of the random letter change in 4d.

    Knew QUINCE as a rude mechanical, but still wonder why Shakespeare chose the name.

    15′ 17″, thanks z and setter.

    1. re QUINCE, Wikipedia says ” His name is derived from “quines” or “quoins”, which are wooden wedges used by carpenters.” Who knew?
  15. I’ve been taking a break from tackling these after too many where I just can’t see what’s going on took the enjoyment out of them. But I hope keeping up with the blogs and reading the parsing will lodge in my brain for when I try again. But I want to comment that today’s blog is one of the best I’ve read: amusing, clever, instructive, encouraging. Bravo, and thank you.
    1. That’s very kind, thank you. Mind you, I also added characteristic mistakes: I forgot the Bridge partners, and confused my Quince and Snug occupations amongst the rude mechanicals. Such things are what the rest of this fabulous community is for!
  16. 21.29. Like the blogger dishonesty was my last in but without the working out. All the crossers suggested it though which was a great help. Similar reasoning gave me going on without troubling too much over the parsing. Some very nice anagrams I thought and much to enjoy in general.
    Peroxide my COD.
  17. 09:41 LOI QUINCE after I struggled for a while to think of what a theatre chippie might be called. COD to WASP. Thank-you Z and setter.
  18. HONESTY and ORSON WELLES biffed, PANTOGRAPH from wordplay.

    LOI was PINE with fingers crossed as I wasn’t entirely confident that pin and stick were the same or that pine could mean waste away, even in the context of fjords.

    1. Just realised, your avatar featured in yesterday’s or the day’s before puzzle: goodness clued the “Crumbs!” part of breadcrumbs. Do the setters or editor do it on purpose?
      1. I like to think so, it has certainly happened before, with several TfTT regulars name-checked in a single puzzle. CRUMBS was the answer to 1ac in a Jumbo for which I was on blogging duty. I like to think that that was a little wave from the setter.
  19. 26 minutes, split into two by daughter’s and dog’s arrangements again. LOI PINE. COD to ORSON WELLES. I was pleased to see CICERONIAN straightaway, but then confounded myself putting in BEEP, corrected in my head to WASP on the dog walk. ALDERMANIC came then too. As a lad we lived next door to an Alderman who had become mayor. One day he was about to get into the mayoral car as my sister was leaving for school. His journey took him past the school, and so he asked if she’d like a lift. That being agreed, the chauffeur opened the door for my sister with a grand gesture. Before she could get in, our old family dog came charging down the path, leapt into the car and sat there pleased as Punch. He was a class act, our Rex. Lovely puzzle. Thank you Z and setter.
    1. Had a dog called Tillie, and was sharing a taxi with my grandmother in law (if there is such a thing.) Arrived at GMiL’s and dog was trying very hard to scramble over her. I told her off, and she cowered down (unseen by me.) Taxi disappeared, wife and I walked to MiL’s home… where is the dog? Rang taxi firm; driver had to go out and check. Yes, Tillie still in the taxi and quite silent. Sportingly the taxi-driver brought her back to us at MiL’s. He didn’t charge me because he thought it was so funny, and he said he could dine out on the story!
      Andyf
      1. Dogs – in my experience – love cars. Our daily walk crosses a car park between beach/oval/park, and if someone newly arrived in the car park opens the door the dogs try to get in. Cars go to good and interesting places!
      1. I’m sure you mean
        “oh, wait”… “oh, wait”… “oh wait”
        penfold!
        (and we’re not done yet)

        Edited at 2021-07-29 11:52 am (UTC)

  21. I got off to a good start with THUG, GREEN BELT and HALUCINATE, but was held up later on as I didn’t notice that I’d managed to type GGREE NBEL for quite a while. PINE and PANTOGRAPH dropped into place once I’d noticed! I felt quite at sea after several clues went in easily, but then seemed to be cast adrift with nothing making much sense, until all of a sudden it did, and the last few clues came at a dash. GUYS and NOSER were last 2 in. 24:34. Thanks setter and Z. Glad to hear you’re back in circulation and the family are recovering!
  23. Some lovely words today, including PANTOGRAPH and ALDERMANIC, and a fair bit of biffing – ORSON WELLES, INVENTOR (NHO the IoW destination) & DISHONESTY.

    My LOI was QUINCE, with no idea of the Shakespeare connection – despite having seen & enjoyed AMND at the Bristol Tobacco Factory a few years ago. 6m 31 today.

    Thanks for the excellent blog, particularly the history of GREASY POLE.

  24. superb blog and puzzle I thought

    only MER is 19d hearsay, hearsay is generally admissible evidence now in many jurisdictions…subject to judicial discretion to exclude it. This now extends to criminal cases indeed I am engaged in a trial at the moment where it is rather compelling evidence for the prosecution !

    Tom

    1. Good point. The hearsay rule has so many exceptions that, if we wanted to get Shakespearean, we might say it’s more honoured in the breach than in the observance.
  25. Pleased with my 18 minutes. ORSON WELLES was bunged in by eye as I couldn’t make head or tail of the clue. I get the explanation now, but cluing Orwell with “George” seems a bit loose.
  26. Neat puzzle. I don’t know what the difference is between a carpenter and a joiner but in MSND it’s Snug who is the latter and Quince the former. Poor old ORSON WELLES managed to make a mess of his finances and was best known in later years for doing ads for Paul Masson wine on tv. Couldn’t help a wry grin about “generosity in debates about reformed senate”.

    Oh and did I mention that East and South are neighbours at bridge.

    Glad to hear you and family are recovering from the scourge Z. 15.53

    1. The joiner was usually the craftsman who cut the more intricate joints so that the carpenter, who would make the larger structures such as roof trusses, could fit them all together on site. So the joints had to be snug but the carpenter needed quoins (wedges) to fit them together. Curiously in 1598 from when MSND is thought to date, Shakespeare and his Burbage pals, over a leashold dispute, had The Theatre (reputedly the first proper bespoke theatre in England) dismantled and rebuilt as The Globe. The chief carpenter for this was Peter Street so maybe Peter Quince is an in-joke and perhaps the joiner they used really was ‘slow of study’ as Snug styles himself.
      I think it was Domecq Sherry that Orson plugged in the UK.

      Edited at 2021-07-29 12:15 pm (UTC)

      1. Yes he did Domecq ads, both in real life and as parodied in Ripping Yarns.

        They certainly stuck with me as I was at a friend’s recently for a Spanish-themed lunch and when presented with a choice of three sherries as an aperitif my immediate response was “which would Orson Welles choose?”

    2. Hi Olivia, you don’t have to search too hard on YouTube to find drunken outtakes from Welles’s Paul Masson ads.
  27. As others have said, a very enjoyable puzzle and an entertaining blog.

    Thanks to z and the setter.

  28. 50 minutes of fun today and a few more reading Z’s characteristically entertaining blog. I had a few guesses such as the current collector but Z cleared up why I was right. There was some very pleasing surfaces today — DISHONESTY for example — and though my time was well over my usual, it never felt like that, a testament to the setter’s skill. Thank you to both setter and blogger today.
    Oh and E and S are two neighbours… ok you know the rest.
  29. About 35 minutes overall, mostly done at breakfast with 10 minutes to finish off at lunchtime with DISHONESTY, CONSIDERATENESS and my LOI ALDERMAN.

    It is one of life’s little coincidences that I saw an open air (aka wet) production of AMND last night. DNK VENTNOR in 12ac but with a V as one of the checkers the answer was clear. Only understood INUIT after reading the blog.

    Thanks to the blogger and setter.

  30. Raced through in 15 minutes until the last 2, PINE and GUYS, where I couldn’t find either immediately. After two extensive alphabet trawls it was about double the time. No idea about the parsisng of Horse on Welles, as Kenny Everett called him, so thank-you for that. And thanks all for the background on Quince, Snug, carpenters, joiners, quoins etc. Every day is a school day.
    1. Particularly liked PAWED, which seemed like it must have been intransitive, but was was transitive.*
      *Maybe I’ve got that thew wrong way round, always struggle with the definitions.
  31. Like Penfold I had at least two doubts about PINE, which was my major hold-up today after a flying start. A fun mix of topics and worldplay.
  33. 10a required an alphabet trawl followed by a kickself moment.

    Didn’t think COMMEND was great, but liked PAWED and RISES

  34. For some reason I found this more difficult than yesterday. I’m blaming the builders in the garden of the house opposite, who have been using an angle grinder all day.
    I should have seen the anagram at 2 and also should have got peroxide.
  36. 16:34. I didn’t enjoy this much. Too much of it just seemed obscure and/or excessively oblique. Probably just me: I am quite hungover after a family wedding yesterday. Such a joy to be able to do such things again even if it was probably a super-spreader event.
  37. Oh and by the way E and S are neighbours in the game of bridge. The players are North, South, East and West, you see, with East and South sitting next to one another because they are on opposing teams.
    1. So let me see if I understand — they’re neighbours, but are effectively in conflict with each other ? How very true to life !
  38. Took two of us, but we finished this. Six solved on first pass. FOI tank. LOI Guys.
    COD all of them. Haven’t tried a 15 x 15 for a while now but with workmen in again it gave us something to do whilst they worked apart from making tea etc. for them and sweeping up after them. Took us an age – my husband guesses about an hour all told. Much biffing – some obvious answers, but the whys and wherefores eluded us on many. Thanks for the entertaining and enlightening blog, Z. Enjoyed the puzzle. GW and husband.
  39. ….was easier than I made it appear. “Nooser” was more than a little contrived, and I obviously biffed ORSON WELLES. I was slow to spot CICERONIAN, DISHONESTY, and HALLUCINATE.

    FOI THUG
    LOI PINE (spotted early on, but wasn’t convinced)
    COD INUIT
    TIME 10:33

  40. A nice puzzle with one horrible word running down the centreline. It may just be me, but I hate some nouns which are produced from adjectives derived from nouns. Here we have the perfectly adequate ‘consideration’ giving us the adjective ‘considerate’ and then the unnecessary, ugly and just thoroughly unpleasant CONSIDERATENESS. Yeuch! (Another bugbear, though not quite the same, is the old saw about the quickness of the hand deceiving the eye. What is wrong with ‘speed’? Grumble over. Thanks to our setter and blogger, as ever.
  41. Very enjoyable quarter of an hour after dinner with children in bed (albeit still chattering). My father-in-law lives in Ventnor, so I was pleased to see it getting a mention. He swears you can see the lights of Cherbourg reflected on horizon cloud, if the weather is right. Nice place, which was obviously once much better known as a resort than it is now. I seem to recall that in WW1 wounded soldiers were sent to recuperate there. A lot of biffing went on there, so thanks for the blog.
  42. Times 28042
    I’m far slower than others but I did work out all of 13 Down
    Game of Bridge anybody?
    Mike
  43. About 40 minutes, a puzzle not entirely devoid of charm, but with an excess of contrived terms like ALDERMANIC, CICERONIAN, NOSER (from NOOSER) and CONSIDERATENESS (really?). DISHONESTY went in quickly, but it took me a while to parse it correctly. I much enjoyed the bridge discussion — when I opened the comments I was sure someone would point that out, and indeed the first commenter did, but I wasn’t expecting 50 people to do so.
  44. I COMMEND the CONSIDERATENESS
    In explaining the E and the S
    But if you don’t read the threat
    And repeat what’s been said
    Folks will think you’re a numpty, I guess
  45. As probably one of the last to comment, I’m just wondering if someone could clear up the E S conundrum?

  46. Thanks all.

    I parsed 22d differently: had flags=RAISES (to flag/raise a point), then dropping 1=A. Ended up in the right place though.

    FOI DOSH
    COD WASP
    WOD PANTOGRAPH

    Time ~1hr which is v good for me, though DNG QUINCE or AZALEA, the latter being particularly unforgivable as I’d worked out the Z and look at some directly through the window from my WFH desk almost every day.

  47. Interesting that many DNK ‘napped’: ironically the one word here that you are guaranteed to find within a couple of pages of the Xword every day!

    The Times racing column always has one bet marked ‘nap’ (their best tip of the day), and a second marked ‘nb’ (next best)

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