Time taken to solve? I’m not saying, but it was off the scale.
I can’t say I enjoyed this much. After an hour I had completed little more than half so I resorted to books and eventually for the final two (5 and 15) to on-line assistance but I still have one unsolved.
| Across | |
|---|---|
| 1 | P,U.R.C.,E,LL – U.R.C. = United Reform Church. I took a while to sort this out because I first thought “church” was cluing RC and then CE when in fact it was neither of these. |
| 5 | DISTURB – This is BRUT(e),SID (rev) |
| 9 | ROD – In my schooldays we were taught about rods poles and perches, and its amazing how often this comes in handy |
| 10 | COPPER,PLATE – A style of hand-writing. The famous battle helped with the second part. |
| 11 | GE(R)T,RUDE |
| 12 | FOR,EGO |
| 15 | NOCK – Sounds like “Knock” , apparently a shrine in Ireland that all good Catholics probably know well but I’ve never heard of. I spent ages on this one as I didn’t know “nock” meaning a notch on an arrow either and I was trying to justify “nick” which might have fitted one meaning but not the other so far as I could work out. |
| 16 | ARMS-LENGTH – Lacking intimacy and not quite three feet |
| 22 | ANNE,AL – To toughen glass. Good old Al rides again! |
| 25 | HOUSEHOLDER – HOUSE is held in “Thou seemest” |
| 27 | VOW(els) |
| 28 | DIN,(l)ETTE(r) |
| 29 | SUNTRAP – PART+ NUS (all rev) |
| Down | |
| 1 | P,ARAGON – The old kingom where Catherine came from |
| 3 | ES,C(OR)T – “Tu es” = Thou art again. It’s becoming a chestnut. |
| 4 | LAP,1,D,ARIES – Gem cutters apparently |
| 5 | On edit: DO(t)ER – see comments below – (original D?E? – Beats me! The only Martha and Mary connection I know were sisters of Lazarus. Who has the boot? I may be needing it. I might guess DOER or DYER.) |
| 6 | SIP,HONED |
| 7 | UNA – this is “one” in Spanish |
| 8 | BE(h)E MOTH |
| 13 | EAGER BEAVER – Sounds like “eagre”, a tidal bore. As it can also be spelt “eager” there was no real need for the “sounds like” indicator. A beaver, amongst other things we needn’t go into, is a beard or bearded man. I wasted ages trying to make it CHEER LEADER. |
| 17 | LI(GAME)NT |
| 20 | S(CREW) UP |
| 21 | (o)MICRON |
| 24 | G,ORE – As in Kensington Gore |
| 26 | (b)URN – |
Tom B.
Martha does and Mary dotes
and little lambs eat ivy…..
Mairzy dotes and Dozey dotes
(mares eat oats and does eat oats)
And little lambs eat ivy.
etc.
I suppose GORE at 24 is something one either knows or doesn’t, and fortunately I did. I spent a lot of time in Kensington in student days and I’m also a big fan of theatre where Kensington Gore has a quite different meaning.
Otherwise this was a bit of a slog and, like Jimbo, I select DOER, NOCK and GORE as clues which incorporated unreasonable difficulty/obscurity. With longer answers which the compiling process forces into place one can cut the setter some slack, but these three offered plenty of more accessible alternatives. The trouble with short, obscure inclusions is that the solver is going to get minimal help from checkers. DOER and GORE were guessable – not so NOCK – but for solvers who don’t happen to know the obscure clue references there can be little pleasure in correct guesses.
COD 1A Q-3 E-5 D-9
The main difficulty of the puzzle arose from the number of clues where it was difficult to get a grip on something definite, and even if one did, there were slightly obscure elements making it difficult seeing how the clue worked, so, for instance, I did not see how the UR was generated in PURCELL until I had access to a dictionary, making that a very tentative entry until I had crossing confirmation.
Yep, a right old couple of lulus screwed the pooch today. I went through most of it in about 20 minutes, then found myself becalmed in the NE. Another 20 minutes left me with two of the unlovely four-letter words already appropriately panned by others here. I eventually got DOER but made a wrong guess at 15a since the only thing I know about toxophily is that you don’t mess with the Koreans.
Agree with maximus that 25a stands out. But every good story needs its villains, so I’ll give COD to 5d for being an unmitigated bad boy. Lousy clue, but I won’t forget the Mary/Martha dualism in a hurry.
I’m going to write up my Listener blog and then head out of town for a few days, so you’ll probably be free of my commenting until Thursday.
Is there a well-known phrase or saying, or a bible reference such as “Luke Chapter Y Verse Z” that supports it? Or has the setter based it merely on his/her perception of the story of Martha and Mary, whatever that may be?
38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus’ feet, and heard his word.
40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
– Luke 10:38-42
I never actually stopped smiling (I love a good row). Have a lovely weekend.
5d might be considered a clever clue if it were to appear in the Church Times crossword (if they have one) but it’s out of place in a Times daily.
I must confess that even having read the quotation from St Luke I still don’t see how the clue can be justified because neither of the words it refers to actually appears in the text, so solving it then relies upon an interpretation of its meaning which may or may not be correct.
Incidentally I was indoctrinated with Bible stories as a child so I am familiar with this one but I still can’t make the leap from it to the answer required here.
I had no problems with GORE at 24 and I have already said that NOCK at 15 is fair enough because it is gettable from two different means, and even though I didn’t happen to know either of them they were both readily accessible from the usual sources.
So my objection isn’t really that the answer can’t be guessed but that the overwhelming majority of people will be completely baffled by why they were right and I thought that was not what the Times puzzle was supposed to be about.
My lack of religious knowledge made me take a long time over DOER, but once I had looked on the web for the story of Mary and Martha it clicked quite quickly.
Isn’t the need for a good general knowledge part of the fun of the Times? It is for me, and my ability there often offsets my less than lightening ability at other crossword skills. Keep it up, please!
Harry Shipley
JohnPMarshall 26 minutes today
I suggest you listen to your customers. What you produced today in those clues was tripe and no amount of smug self justification can alter that.
Had no trouble with “doer” but failed with “nock”, although I knew the shrine. I thought the most difficult was 5, there are so many 3 letter boys names.
As for the time – well whats a few hours when on holiday?
Mike & Fay
(I just can’t stand a woman who doesn’t know her place.)
I think a large chunk of the problem is that 4-letter answers very often offer several words that fit, so you have to understand all of the clue. For PURCELL for example, my guess is that only one answer fits.
I had no problem with GORE and NOCK, but stopped the clock at 30 minutes with DOER as my best guess for 5D and was relieved to find it was right. Having come here to find the explanation, I’d like to add my voice to those who thought that this clue was rubbish – what’s more I would have regarded it as rubbish if it had appeared in a 1950s puzzle, and I’m one of those who likes puzzles from that period, though I know that some (most?) modern solvers hate them.
As others have said, even with the required biblical knowledge (which I have) “One like Mary” is hopeless as an indicator for DOTER. “A Martha” for DOER is pretty much OK and was what eventually led me to plump for it, but I was worried that I was missing something. For instance I knew that there was a fictional heroine called DREW. Could her first name be Martha? (Now that I’ve looked it up I find that it’s Nancy, but at the end of six puzzles I was feeling punch-drunk.)
Well, that was my threepenn’orth, but it sounds as if the setter doesn’t give a damn about what the punters think, and anyway it’ll be too late for him (or her?) to read this now. I should perhaps add that this is the first Times crossword clue for ages (years perhaps?) that I’ve taken exception to.
I found GORE perfectly acceptable. A quite obscure way of defining it but we were also given G + ORE, which to me is more than fair. NOCK probably crossed the line of fairness as it relied on two pretty obscure definitions. I always tell people that the thing about cryptic crosswords is that you get two shots at each answer – if you don’t get it by the wordplay you can get it by the definition and vice versa. DOER at best only gave you one way in, and that was via an interpretation of an arcane reference. I think Jimbo’s “awful” was probably understating it.