Times 29173 – Coin toss territory?

Author   ulacaPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

There are a couple of clues here that are a little difficult to categorise, but that won’t hold most people up. In general terms, I would say this is pretty much a glorified Quickie, but we have a homophone clue that could be read either way (the classic double helix), so there will be objections and perhaps a stewards’ enquiry.

12:42

Across
1 Dog chasing black bird (6)
BEAGLE – B EAGLE
4 Most amusing peer recalled in case (8)
DROLLEST – LORD reversed LEST
10 High season issue (9)
OFFSPRING – OFF (high > rancid) SPRING
11 Reptile beginning to generate reverberation, from the sound of it (5)
GECKO – G~ ECKO (sounds like echo)
12 He campaigns against nonsense and expects to make a killing (11)
BULLFIGHTER -a sort of extended cryptic definition, with a whimsical reference to those who take on BS
14 Broadcast outstanding work of poetry (3)
ODE – sounds like owed
15 Some royal PR I agree brought about radio exposure (7)
AIRPLAY – reversed hidden
17 Trees usually shade this ace location (6)
AVENUE – A VENUE
19 Femme fatale forgetting ultimate sacred word (6)
MANTRA – MANTRAp; Collins has this as American English, usually hyphenated. Interestingly, the book Mantrap, by Sinclair Lewis, and the silent film based on it, directed by Victor Fleming, who later co-helmed Gone with the Wind, are both styled as a single word.
21 Lay rug in a street in Paris to the west (7)
AMATEUR -MAT in A RUE reversed
23 Nick has suspension reversed (3)
NAB – BAN reversed
24 Repel big man, somehow withstanding all attacks (11)
IMPREGNABLE – anagram* of REPEL BIG MAN
26 Adult expressed hint of exasperation (5)
GROAN – sounds like grown; alternatively, could sound like groan. So, not the world’s greatest clue, methinks.
27 After work, I phone Leo — he loves a good whine on the blower (9)
OENOPHILE – I PHONE LEO*
29 State vessel evacuated American elite troops (8)
ARKANSAS – ARK A~N SAS
30 Copenhagen cybersex hosting business (6)
AGENCY – hidden
Down
1 Cow’s lick below forehead (8)
BROWBEAT – BROW (forehead) BEAT (lick as in achieve a victory over another)
2 Terrible entertainment briefly interrupts boring item (5)
AWFUL – FUn in AWL
3 Have friend over for drink (3)
LAP – PAL reversed
5 Event where competitors use craft? (7)
REGATTA – cryptic definition
6 Tricky deception shocked Nigel? Dear me (11)
LEGERDEMAIN – NIGEL DEAR ME*; skilful use of hands when performing tricks
7 Pen accompaniment to letter (9)
ENCLOSURE – double definition (DD)
8 Tense argument leads to engineer lobbing tool (6)
TROWEL -T (tense) ROW (argument) E~ L~
9 Shabby-looking husband boards small boat (6)
DINGHY – H in DINGY
13 Tender cut of ling I’m often cooking (5,6)
FILET MIGNON – LING IM OFTEN*; this turned up recently on my watch, I believe, when I referenced the classic Blackadder sketch featuring Baldrick’s idiosyncratic version of filet mignon in sauce Béarnaise
16 Bardot endlessly tossed hair; that’ll stop the traffic! (9)
ROADBLOCK – BARDOt* LOCK; I wasted time here trying to get Bridgette in somehow. Which was a bit naff, as her name was the much more alluring, Frenchified Brigitte.
18 Place for putting every other sample of early plants? (8)
GREENERY – GREEN (nod to golf) EaRlY (every other letter in the word early)
20 Jar American artist filled with noodle soup (7)
AMPHORA – PHO (Vietnamese noodle soup) in AM RA
21 Getting older, each caged dingo freed from captivity (6)
AGEING – remove the outer letters (free from captivity) the words cAGEd and dINGo
22 Ecstasy and booze upset mother — it’s a complex problem (6)
ENIGMA – E GIN reversed MA
25 Northern child I must shelter in farm building (5)
BAIRN – I in BARN
28 Boxer dog with a flat, wrinkled face (3)
PUG – DD; think pugilist for the first one

87 comments on “Times 29173 – Coin toss territory?”

  1. And full-Groan lambs loud bleat from hilly bourn;
    Hedge-crickets sing; and now with treble soft
    The red-breast whistles from a garden-croft;
    (To Autumn, Keats)

    Yes, one the editor should have picked up, if not the setter. Otherwise, a very gentle 15 mins pre-brekker.
    The “whine on the blower” homophone in a definition is a bit unusual.
    Ta setter and U.

  2. 17 minutes, my quickest for a while. And that includes the search for the cryptic in PUG. COD to MANTRA. Pleasant if a bit too Mondayish. Thank you U and setter.

  3. A fail. I think the question mark in the blog title is superfluous. GROAN, GROAN.

    1. I don’t think 26a is a problem- my problem for some time was 1a where I was looking for a bird, not a dog – even with all the checkers in. Thankfully the penny dropped eventually – but I think the clue is very ambiguous.

  4. 26 minutes. Not particularly hard, but with some rather inventive clues and (ref ulaca’s comment in the intro) bits of wordplay more tricky than one might expect in a Quick Cryptic.

    I was slowed by dredging up AMPHORA from memory but it was as well that I managed to do so as I had no idea about the noodle soup. A brief trawl of the archive suggests that aside from a Mephisto puzzle PHO has come up twice before (in March 2023 and October 2024) when I also didn’t know it.

    The answer at 18dn wasn’t a problem but for some reason I took ‘Bardot endlessly’ as {b}ARDO{t} which got me ROAD but then left me pondering how ‘hair’ might clue BLOCK (doh!).

    I loved the aural wordplay in 27 as part of the definition that didn’t transfer directly to the letters in the grid. Very clever, and something I don’t recall seeing before.

    I also don’t recall seeing ‘Femme fatale /mantrap’ before.

  6. 12:30 but I put GROWN. Pretty annoying to have struggled onto the leaderboard only to be scuppered by an ambiguous clue. Another 30 days in exile for me.

  7. 11’59”, but most definitely not submitted on the board, after realising GROAN / GROWN.

    Which is a pity.

    Thanks ulaca and setter.

      1. If it’s not a trap, how come so many solvers got it wrong, including me I now see!

  9. I don’t see 12A as an extended cryptic definition. It’s a double def, where the first is a whimsical one and the second refers to what bullfighters actually do.

    26A is unusually loose and either answer could work. Unfortunately I guessed wrong.

    1. You may be right, but for me BULLFIGHTER doesn’t exist as a word, in the first sense – hence my fumbling attempt to classify it.

      1. I was discussing this with Peter B over the weekend. Like you I don’t see the first part as a definition, because that’s not what BULLFIGHTER means. But ‘he… expects to make a killing’ is a definition, so that’s what I would underline.

        1. I see your point, but will resist it, never having liked the Gaza Strip/West Bank split. Just joking, everyone!

  10. 14:33
    After last week’s horror show of spelling mistakes and typos I’m just happy to finish. No groans from me as I thought it the most likely of the two from the wording, but I’m surprised it made it past the edit.

    Thanks to both.

  11. I also went for the wrong GROAN. At pace in an otherwise steady solve I didn’t register any ambiguity. If I had a coin toss might have been more successful.

  12. Well under the half hour but with one wrong that didn’t match the published answer. I spent some time with Ms Bardot when bRIDGEt gave me RIDGELOCK, which was clearly wrong. If only GROWN had been as clearly wrong

  13. 6.50 with GROWN, which as a paper solver I’ve decided to accept, giving me a PSB (Personal Second Best).
    19ac took me a few seconds to remember, until I recalled Jeff Goldblum on the blower in ‘Annie Hall’ saying, “I forgot my MANTRA”.
    Commiserations to those who went down the wrong electronic trouser leg.
    LOI OENOPHILE
    COD MANTRA

  14. 9:48. I plumped for GROAN as “Adult expressed” seemed more direct as wordplay than “expressed hint of exasperation” but I did think it ambiguous. I failed to spot the the golfing reference for GREENERY which I bunged in with a shrug. Doh! Thanks U and setter.

  15. Another awaiting the stewards’ inquiry after backing the wrong horse in 26ac. Otherwise probably my fastest effort at 14 minutes.
    Harrumph!

  16. 5.30, a personal second best provided the editors allow GROWN, which I don’t think anyone has yet disagreed that they should. I think there’s been very occasional precedent for this, although not since I’ve switched from mobile app to Crossword Club solving.

    UPDATE: It seems those of us who guessed wrongly will have to wait a month for our Times scores to be correct, plus my fastest Snitch times will not include this. Harrumph.

    1. FWIW, The Guardian puzzle has the same problem today with an answer that has two perfectly valid and commonly used spellings, and the wordplay route also uses a word that can take the same alternatives.

      1. And the Indy is showing a 4-year-old puzzle rather than the intended one. What is the world coming to?

      2. Do you mean “Announced change for the place of wedding” for ALTAR? That is unambiguous, because of the placement of “Announced”.

          1. Oh! I just finished the Grauniad puzzle and hadn’t even noticed. I think I’ve seen the spelling from further down the alphabet a lot more in both cases, but that’s just my own experience, of course…

    2. Hmmn. I had no problem starting with ‘adult’, the first-mentioned part of the clue, and the following instruction to ‘express’ it. I do seem to be in a minority though.

      1. That’s a perfectly good way to parse the clue. But so too is ‘Adult’ described as ‘expressed hint of exasperation’. I think I read it as you did at first, then saw the ambiguity, so had to shrug and guess.

  17. 22:23. enjoyable puzzle done over breakfast. I got rather stuck on OENOPHILE and GREENERY, the latter I have an excuse for not being a golfer, as to the former, well…

  18. 6:25. A strange thing to say considering that time but I felt like I was making heavy weather of this. Just feeling very dopey this morning, which may explain why I didn’t notice the problem with 26ac and somehow got lucky.

  19. DNF, assuming GROWN isn’t allowed.

    – Thought the same as Russ Shaw above re the definition for BEAGLE, but either reading works
    – Wasn’t sure how off=high for OFFSPRING, but happy now I’ve seen the explanation
    – Tried to put ‘ramen’ into 20d before the checkers forced a rethink. I vaguely remembered pho soup, and AMPHORA sounded plausible

    Thanks ulaca and setter.

    COD Oenophile

  20. I suppose the groan/grown clue could have worked if the 4th letter was crossed, but it wasn’t.

  22. Another victim of 26a but going to class it as a finish. As someone who is still a newbie to cryptics I was going to ask how you know which way round the clue works but I think my question has been answered.

    Speeded through this but a very slow finish with many unforced errors. AMPHORA and MANTRA took me an age. My brain always thinks of MANTRA as words rather than word (Chambers disagrees though) and the ‘jar’ definition just didn’t twig with me. Both fair though.

    AVENUE (LOI) and DROLLEST I got fixated to the clues working a certain way. Feel I would have got these much quicker on another day.

    Liked: OFFSPRING, ENIGMA and BULLFIGHTER

  23. DNF. Gave up on 30 mins with MANTRA missing. Thats not a bad time for me but was so totally off wavelength I wasn’t enjoying it.
    I had opted for GROWN so glad now that I stopped.
    Far too many homophones combined with some misdirection so alien to my personal mental orientation as to be impenetrable.
    As usual this blog shows how it should be done, many thanks.
    I second or third “Dog chasing” for BEAGLE

  24. 20.05
    Perhaps being led astray by the GROAN/GROWN ambiguity requires a level of sophistication and subtlety which is beyond me.
    Thanks U and setter

  25. Legerdemain is my new word of the day – otherwise ok

    Not often you see the same answer in the Cryptic and QC on same day – 17A and 15A – with quite similar clues

    1. I think it happens more often than you would expect. OUTAGE was in both quite recently.

  26. 26a GroAn. I went for grown, and still think it marginally the better of 2 options.
    16d Roadblock. I was trying to use (B)rige(t) which is a very poor attempt at spelling her name.
    20d Amphora. Was trying to force in canopic (jar) but it didn’t fit. I have never eaten pho soup but recalled it (eventually, post entry) from an earlier puzzle or two.

  27. So if VAR allows GROWN, does that mean those of us who didn’t see that possibility will be awarded a pink? I don’t think the system is sophisticated enough to allow two answers.
    Otherwise a quick 10.57.

    1. As someone who will be very grumpy if GROWN remains disallowed, I would certainly hope not! GROAN is a perfectly good answer too. If the system can’t handle that, then the editing process is even more important.

      UPDATE: Grumpy it is!

  28. From BEAGLE to GREENERY in 11:55. I had the G and the O at 26a, read “adult expressed” and “hint of exasperation”, and typed GROAN. Really glad I didn’t linger and see “adult,” “expressed hint of exasperation!” Thanks setter and U.

  30. Many apologies for the ambiguity in 26 across, something I really should have picked up. We will be updating the clue to remove the ambiguity.

    Unfortunately, the system does not allow us to record two different answers as correct. (The only situation where we have discretion is in the marking of entries for a prize puzzle.)

    2. Good on you for owning up publicly Jason! And remember we wouldn’t be such a cranky lot if it wasn’t for the consistent standard of excellence that we’ve come to expect from you and your colleagues.

      I’m happy to offer complete absolution (mainly because I guessed correctly).

  31. 14 mins. Hoping for a PB but too many distractions, never spotted the GROWN alternative. COD OENOPHILE

  32. 05:44, and it seems I was lucky in being Burlington Bertie, who solves at 10:30, as by then the rogue clue had been rewritten, meaning I was a bit puzzled by all the kerfuffle higher up this thread.

  33. NHO pho but since it’s appeared twice recently presumably I did know it but have forgotten, no surprise. I missed the OENOPHILE homophone, rather good. Was expecting something connected with a euphonium. Never even noticed the GROAN/grown problem and fortunately was ‘correct’. 33 minutes, which now I look at it all is a bit on the slow side, since most of it was really quite easy.

  34. Haven’t read any of the above, too much else going on, but this took 20.03 and started tricky but got easier with the downs. Struggled def-wise with 1ac, it really seemed to want a bird. Nice puzzle in general.

    From Just Like Tom Thumb’s Blues:
    When you’re lost in the rain in Juarez, and it’s Easter time too
    And your gravity fails, and negativity don’t pull you through
    Don’t put on any airs when you’re down on Rue Morgue AVENUE
    They got some hungry women there and they’ll really make a mess outta you

  35. Another GROWN here, but I’m counting it as a successfully completed puzzle. I really do think it works perfectly well which ever way it is solved, and perhaps should have been excluded on that basis. A finish in 29.03, but the shine rather taken off it.

  36. 25 mins but… another GROWN. Groan. Most unfair in my eyes.

    I liked LEGERDEMAIN & OENOPHILE, of course.

    Thanks U and tricksy setter.

  37. 9:59 and a fortuitous GROAN at 26ac. I couldn’t (still can’t) see any reason to even slightly favour one option over the other, so just braced myself and clicked the submit button.

    Enjoyed the rest of the puzzle. Thanks setter and U.

  38. 14 mins on the nose, which is lightning fast for me. I put in GROAN without any thought to the ambiguity expressed by all and sundry; if I’d been going more slowly perhaps I’d’ve agonised over it. Biffed GREENERY without spotting the golf ref. Very nice crossword for a Monday morning – thanks Ulaca and setter.

  39. On for a PB but got stopped in the NE where a mis-spelt GEKKO, stopped ENCLOSURE. Did not get the easy AVENUE despite it appearing in today’s QC with the same parsing. And REVENUE the week before as well. Could not parse DROLLEST, as kept seeing “in case” as a containment.

    But I had GROAN so would have been upset to have a pink square on a PB.

  40. All very quick, and then left with the GROWN/GROAN dilemma. Went for a blood test at the GP’s surgery, and after a restorative cuppa, plumped for GROWN, but could see it working either way.
    I liked the OENOPHILE and ROADBLOCK clues.
    Thanks for the blog and thanks setter.

  41. 15:05

    Quick for me, but somewhat held up by OENOPHILE as I was slow to believe 21d could be as easy as AGEING and mentally mispronounced putting.

    Good to have a quickie occasionally, especially on a a day the Quickie wasn’t.

    Thanks all.

  42. 24’15”
    Stray lapdog impeded progress final furlong …

    … but I appear to be the first to benefit from rising late and so missing the ambiguity; living up to my nom-de-plume has benefits occasionally. I eventually disentangled Tricky-Woo from the noble artist but it cost me a double digit Witch.
    Thank you setter, Jason and Jeremy; we all got there eventually.

  43. Was somewhat confused reading about GROWN/GROAN, but now I see the clue had been updated by the time I got to it.

    Felt harder than it was – I thought I was going quite slowly, and was surprised to see I’d completed in a shade under 11 mins. EDIT: I see that I’ve got to the stage where that time was indeed under par for the difficulty – a WITCH of 106.

    LOI MANTRA.

    10:53

  44. 27:03

    Good fun. I was lucky enought to read 26 as the setter intended it and I really enjoyed the little mental shimmy involved in getting OENOPHILE.
    Thanks to Ulaca and the setter.

  45. 18′ earlier this morning before going off for a golf round. Very quick for me, which seems the case for most others. Luckily didn’t really see the grown/GROAN dilemma at the time. Otherwise as others have said, a sort of Quickie with some bells on. Thanks Ulaca and setter

  46. I agree with our blogger that this had a strong whiff of QC about it. I should have completed it in less than the 25 minutes it took me, but I was interrupted by a bowl of soup. I put in GROAN without a second thought, though after reading the comments here perhaps I should have hedged my bets. Otherwise no issues.
    FOI – DROLLEST
    LOI – AVENUE
    COD – OENOPHILE
    Thanks to ulaca and other contributors.

  48. I hadn’t noticed the setter’s intervention on grown/ groan and I have to admit I went for the grown version but all’s well etc.

  49. Not too difficult but a DNF with both REGATTA and AVENUE unsolved, so slightly surprised by the suggestions that I might have a PB. I did correctly plump for GROAN (but with no certainty whatsoever I’d picked the right one)

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