QC 1785 by Hurley

Author   astartedonPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

I have noticed a minority of comments recently suggesting that I (and presumably other bloggers as well) should not describe a puzzle as easy because new people who come along and who might find it difficult can get a bit disheartened, which is exactly the opposite of what we all want to happen. As it is I normally don’t post my times anyway as I tend to think they don’t mean a lot on the QC. Instead I restrict myself to saying whether I personally found a puzzle more or less difficult than the average, and then generally I find that my perception differs anyway from many of the seasoned contributors either one way or the other. So with that pattern I am quite happy to give a more objective assessment a try and see how it goes. As it is I couldn’t give you a time this week anyway even if I wanted to as when I finished it it turned out that the timer was in the ‘off’ position.

So what I am going to try to do is to give the usual FOI, LOI and COD furniture and then a quick run down of the clue stats concentrating on the types of clue that are generally considered to be the ‘easiest’, namely anagrams, hidden words and double definitions. I may start to include other types of clue as time goes on but that is how I propose to start anyway. So here we go – just after I have said thank you to Hurley for providing our first fix of the week.

FOI was 1A. LOI was I think 16D. I’m having difficulty deciding on a COD as no particular surface or cryptic construction stood out for me above the others but I will go for 17A.

I counted three anagrams, three double definitions and two hidden words, which should have given most people a good scaffolding of checkers upon which to build the rest of the solution. It also helped that the anagrams were relatively long and the anagrinds (‘wrecked’, ‘revised arrangement’ and ‘new’) could hardly have been clearer.

Definitions are underlined and everything else is explained just as I see it as simply as I can.

Across
1 With noted talent for “Oklahoma!” say? (7)
MUSICAL – if you are musical then you could cryptically be said to have a ‘noted’ talent. ‘Oklahoma!’ is the famous first musical by the Rodgers & Hammerstein duo.
5 Overtake father and sons (4)
PASS – PA (father) + S + S (sons).
7 Fruit woman got, partly missing (5)
MANGO – hidden word: woMAN GOt ‘partly missing’, i.e. with the other letters removed.
8 Is able to vote as several standing initially seek support (7)
CANVASS – CAN (is able to) + V (vote) + AS + S (Standing ‘initially’). EDIT: see anonymous comment below and my reply. This should be CAN (is able to) + Vote As Several Standing ‘initially’, i.e. the initial letters of those words. I parsed it correctly while doing the puzzle but when writing it up I had an unfortunate slip of the mind.
10 Discourteous when daughter leaves leading to regret (3)
RUE – RUdE (discourteous) with D (daughter) ‘leaving’.
11 Not half mocked in jockey’s equipment? Leave fast! (9)
SKEDADDLE – delete half of mocKED to get ‘not half mocked’ and then put it in SADDLE (jockey’s equipment) to give this Americanism, probably related to Scots and northern dialect. Much the same meaning as ABSQUATULATE which also turns up in crosswords occasionally.
13 British school language (6)
BRETON – it’s that contentious educational establishment again! BR (British) + ETON (school). Breton being the language spoken in the region of Brittany in France which is in the Celtic family of languages including Cornish ‘whereto ’tis kin’ as Hamlet might say. Having spent several holidays in the region I have found it interesting to note ‘Cornish’ characteristics in a lot of the place name spellings and so on.
14 Choice tips from expert getting post (6)
PICKET – PICK (choice) + ET (‘tips’, i.e. the end bits, from ExperT).
17 Resort everyone rejected — Northern failure? No (9)
LLANDUDNO – ALL (everyone) reversed, i.e. rejected, = LLA + N DUD (northern failure) + NO all strung together lead inexorably to this resort in Wales.
19 Dry a very short time (3)
SEC – double definition. SEC = dry as in wine, and also an abbreviation for second. That is either a straight definition for a ‘very short time’ (it’s all relative after all), or the idea may be that a second is a short time, and if you abbreviate it to SEC it becomes a VERY short time. Either way, we do indeed get there in quite a short time I hope.
20 Fuss about vocal, never ending, Green? (7)
AVOCADO – ADO (fuss) ‘about’ VOCAl ‘never ending’, i.e. without the last letter, leading to this shade of green much beloved of 80s bathroom designers.
22 Song of Republican over in California (5)
CAROL – OK. We have all heard of Republicans have we? I know I saw something about them on the news the other day. Well as a political party in the US they get abbreviated to R (they are also sometimes known as the GOP – ‘Grand Old Party’, and I have seen this acronym turn up in crosswords as well, although I don’t think I have ever seen it in a QC). An over is a series of six deliveries in Cricket (or more accurately six ‘balls’, as the delivery of a ‘no ball’ will add to the number of deliveries in an over). I think the Australian tradition also used to use eight-ball overs at some point in history. An over is usually abbreviated to O. So put R + O into CAL (California) and there you have the answer.
23 Continue after all others (4)
LAST – double definition, hopefully requiring no further explanaton.
24 After time more unusual accepted learner’s young child (7)
TODDLER – T (time) + ODDER (more unusual) ‘accepting’ L (learner).
Down
1 They may help to recall mobile Maria wrecked (11)
MEMORABILIA – straight anagram. MOBILE MARIA ‘wrecked’.
2 Open all the time after resistance ended at front (7)
SINCERE – SINCE (all the time after) + R (symbol for the electrical quantity of resistance) + E (Ended ‘at front’).
3 Ill-tempered promise — this?! (9)
CROSSWORD – CROSS (ill-tempered) + WORD (promise, as in ‘I give you my word’). The definition is of course what you have presumably just completed.
4 Jewellery item — severe reprimand when directions are reversed (6)
LOCKET – ROCKET (severe reprimand) with R (right) ‘reversing direction’ to L (left).
5 Pole needed to use ATM (3)
PIN – Personal Identification Number. If you need some Cadbury’s Smash you’d better go to the hole in the wall and put in your Huckleberry Finn. (Sorry, I was just reading an article about east end ATMs the other day that have an option to display instructions in Cockney rhyming slang).
6 Pay for exhibition area at fair (5)
STAND – double definition. Pay for as in ‘I’ll stand you all a drink’. And if you all meet me at my local (if it’s still there) once all this virus business is over I certainly will. Maybe we could even do it on a night when verlaine is chairing the quiz (as I believe he has done in the past).
9 Impressive revised arrangement of act? Clap? Sure! (11)
SPECTACULAR – straight anagram. ‘Revised arrangement’ of ACT CLAP SURE.
12 New aid in coma — it’s found in proteins (5,4)
AMINO ACID – and another one. ‘New’ AID IN COMA. Amino acids are the basic building blocks of which proteins are made. The clue is in the name: they have a basic (AMINO) chemical functional group at one end and an acidic (ACID) one at the other. Elimination of water enables them to join together to make the long-chain biological polymers known as proteins.
15 Flier, quickest, relative displays (7)
KESTREL – hidden word: quicKEST RELative ‘displays’.
16 Publicity, limitless, from computers etc that’s skilful (6)
ADROIT – AD (publicity) + RO (fROm ‘limitless’, that is to say without its end letters, or ‘limits’) + IT (computers etc).
18 Fragrance of a capital (in local parlance) (5)
AROMA – A + ROMA (capital ‘in local parlance’, i.e. ROME in Italian).
21 Suitable carpet oddly overlooked (3)
APT – ‘overlook’ the odd letters of cArPeT and you are left with the answer.

82 comments on “QC 1785 by Hurley”

  1. I solved every clue in this puzzle in about 4 minutes. The problem was, I had no idea why LOCKET fit the wordplay, and so refused to submit it. After pondering for a full 10 minutes more, I finally submitted without leaderboard, only to discover that my answer was, in fact, correct. But I still had no idea why it was right. Thankfully Don set me straight! I considered reversing E -> W, or reversing the whole clue, but I had not considered L -> R. It probably didn’t help that I don’t know the word ROCKET with that meaning.

    I feel like there’s some moral here for new solvers. Finding the balance between “trusting your gut” and “wanting to understand how it works” is tricky, and many minutes can be spent in the process.

    Edited at 2021-01-11 12:28 am (UTC)

    1. Well frankly I find that amazing. Knowing you as I do I should have thought you would have been well on top of it. Life is full of surprises!

      Don

        1. Eh, well, these days I’m working hard to not make errors, so…

          Interestingly, a similar problem arose in a similar place in the grid on the main today.

          1. I’ve just had a chance to look at what you meant by ‘a similar problem in the same place’. I imagine you mean 4D in the 15×15 as well?

            That was a word that I had on the periphery of my knowledge and I had no fear in writing it in as I didn’t feel the cryptic could be pointing anywhere else.

            It’s the classic risk and reward situation so beloved of golfers. To BIFF or not to BIFF? But the thing is the more experienced you are the more you can have confidence in your BIFFs. It’s a bit like whoever the golfer was (probably apocryphal as I think it has been attributed to several sages of the course over the years) who, when somebody congratulated him on a ‘lucky’ shot, said “Thanks. And you know what, the more I practise the luckier I get”.

            As I keep telling the newbies, it’s all about experience!

  2. 10 minutes but with one answer, LOCKET, unparsed because I had exactly the same experience with it as Jeremy. I stopped the clock because I decided I wasn’t going to let my general rule about including all parsing times get in the way of completing within my 10-minute target. Not for the sake of one answer which I was 100% sure was correct. I looked at the clue again later having solved the 15×15 and saw the parsing immediately. Earlier I lost time, delaying writing in MUSICAL (deduced from ‘Oklahoma!) because I couldn’t see how the first part of the clue fitted. That parsing came to me eventually and before I had stopped the clock. I hesitated over SKEDADDLE or SKIDADDLE but the wordplay rescued me from an error there.
  3. 1hr 2min 19sec. FOI 1d, LOI 4d biffed. Interesting to note that the “dud” of Llandudno is pronounced “did”. The”Ll” is a digraph which is difficult to describe in writing. Let’s just say that you would not wish to be having a close conversation with someone using it during the COVID epidemic.
  4. Just scraped in with 19:32 having to spend time on quite a few. At 6dn, with just the S and the A, I got fixated on STAGE or STALL until the splendid SKEDADDLE came along and made it STAND. COD perhaps TODDLER. WOD SKEDADDLE. An Americanism? but I’ve always known it, growing up in North London
    Thanks Hurley for the fine QC. thanks astartedon for the wonderfully chatty blog
  5. I found this pretty hard throughout, finally crossing the line – all green and parsed – in 19m. I fell into the trap of thinking ‘resort’ was an instruction rather than the definition in getting to LLUNDUDNO and did the compass points thing with LOCKET too. The SW was the big hold up where I took an age to arrive at AROMA, AVOCADO and LAST – and ADROIT took a bit of work too!
  6. A strange start to the week for me. I just didn’t start motoring at first and explored the whole grid slowly for footholds before coming back to the NW and wondering why I didn’t see more on first pass. It all started to fall into place when MEMORABILIA flashed into my head and MUSICAL followed. Some nice clues. I liked SKEDADDLE, LLANDUDNO, ROCKET, ADROIT but groaned when I saw that ruddy school again in BRETON. Give us a break! I wanted to biff CAROL but wasted time because I couldn’t enter it until the parsing emerged for me. Similarly for PICKET after wanting to biff Packet for post. AMINO ACID gave me a doh! moment and LAST was actually my LOI. Just outside my 15min target but an enjoyable outing after a frustrating start. Thanks to Hurley and to Don for a superb blog. John M.

    Edited at 2021-01-11 11:39 am (UTC)

  7. Average difficulty for me. I got off to a quick start with the 1s going in straightaway but a carelessly biffed MELON came back to haunt me later as ended up staring blankly at the NW. Once I’d rechecked my answer CROSSWORD, SINCERE and LOI BRETON soon followed. Finished in 12.21 with an MER at the PIN/POLE link, although I see that it is in Collins. WOD SKEDADDLE.
    Thanks to astartedon
      2. On our golf course, there is only one flagpole, used for flying the club flag. The greens have flagsticks in the holes, sometimes known as pins.
  8. At last a QC just right for me. Finished in 45 minutes. First few clues went in quickly but then pace slowed to a trickle but gradually they yielded until there were sufficient cross letters to complete the last 2. Locket seemed right although i didn’t understand why until reading the blog. Avocado was LOI as i was fixated on oral being curtailed rather than the word in the clue. Thanks to Hurley (can we please have more at this level) and thanks to Don. DavidS
    1. Oh dear! Yes you are right. Your method was in fact how I parsed it when I did the puzzle but when I came to write it up I got lazy. Or perhaps slapdash is a more accurate way to describe it. Thanks for pointing it out, I will correct it.

      Don

  10. Harder than average, I thought, with an unparsed LOCKET, a MER at PIN = pole, and another at LLANDUDNO, which probably hasn’t been thought of as a “resort” since 1861!

    Anyway. Thank goodness KED was in the clue or I’d have put SKIDADDLE. I liked that, and TODDLER, and CANVASS. I await the rage of those who complain about Eton’s status as the sole/predominant school in Crosswordland!

    FOI MUSICAL, LOI LAST, COD AROMA, time 14:47 for a Not Very Good Day.

    Many thanks Hurley and Don.

    Templar

    1. We get Harrow quite a lot. I notice it because I was at a school on the Hill which shared many of its facilities so it was very much part of childhood.
      1. Given how unlikely foreign travel will be for some time, it might become one again. There are many worse places …
  11. I started with MUSICAL and 1d was an obvious and fairly easy anagram. But several slowed me down.
    I did parse LOCKET, one of my last in. Thank goodness LLANDUDNO was well signposted as Welsh spelling is beyond me. As is the language; last night I found myself listening to radio commentary on the Newport v Brighton penalty shoot-out -and it was in Welsh.
    My LOI and near error was LAST-how appropriate. I almost went for something else just to stop the clock.
    Finished in 11:07. I liked LAST and CROSSWORD.
    David
  12. Pushed out to just short of 18 minutes by a dry spell in between a quick start (I thought of MUSICAL immediately, and then confirmed it by spotting MEMORABILIA) and a rush to finish at the end. I also played with stall at 6d, took a while to see the well hidden KESTREL and enjoyed SKEDADDLE, which has to be WOD. Thanks Hurley and Astartedon.
  13. Took me a while (and I needed the crossers) to see SINCERE, otherwise steady away with MUSICAL FOI and AVOCADO LOI. I liked LLANDUDNO. A quick proof read saved me from entering CARLL at 22a. 9 minutes on the nose. Thanks Hurley and Don.
  14. … as this took just over 13 minutes, whereas my long run average for him is just under 10.

    Not exactly sure what the hold-ups were as none of the clues seemed unfair or obscure to me. In fact almost the opposite – I “saw” 1A Musical straight off but didn’t enter it as I could not believe there was not more to it, and likewise Pin = pole caused me to hesitate in 5D until I had both the P and the N from checkers. LOI for me was, appropriately, 23A Last. I always find short common words difficult and it took a while staring at -A-T to see the answer

    I sympathise with those who groan at the mention of the Berkshire school, again, but the sad fact is that there are no obvious other 4-letter schools for the setters to use! 5 and 6 letter schools are not uncommon (Douai, Fettes, Harrow, Oundle, Radley, Rugby, Stowe …) but presumably much less easy to use in a clue.

    Many thanks to Don for the blog
    Cedric

  15. I think the QC was doable but had some convoluted wordplay…my QC forte. It also helps that I grew up in North Wales not far from LLANDUDNO and studied biological science at university (AMINO ACID). I was another SKIDADDLE until LOCKET put me right (which I did manage to parse). BRETON took a while as I wanted the answer to be brogue despite it not being a language and the helpful crossers from SINCERE and CROSSWORD were late to the grid. CROSSWORD was actually my LOI despite seeing cross early on. Doh!. 9:30 so just within target. Thanks to astartedon for the detailed blog.

    Edited at 2021-01-11 11:16 am (UTC)

  16. Much more approachable than the last couple. However, I managed to cock it up by putting SPEND for 6d, thinking of PEN, and thus couldn’t get CANVASS. All clear now thanks to the helpful blog.
  17. 35 mins for me, but another one where I spent 10 mins on the final clue. I’d spelt 4dn “Skedaddle” as “Skidaddle”, thinking the mocking element was “kid”, which meant I couldn’t even biff 4dn let alone parse it. It was a relief when the penny finally dropped – although I still needed the blog to understand the construction. I’m so used to directions being points of the compass I’d forgotten about left and right!

    The rest of the puzzle was still a bit chewy though, the SE corner in particular. Wasn’t confident about “Carol” for 22ac even though it couldn’t be anything else, and it took me ages to see the hidden word in 15dn “Kestrel”.

    FOI – 1ac “Musical”
    LOI – 4dn “Locket”
    COD – 17ac “Llandudno” – once went on holiday there as a child…

    Thanks as usual.

  18. Mostly straightforward but with some tricky bits, especially in the NW. Took me ages to get 1ac, a real case of Monday brain fade. I thought there were a number quite convoluted clues (most of which I failed to parse) but luckily they were all biffable. Thanks for making all plain in your blog Astartedon and thanks also to Hurley for an enjoyable workout. I was all finished in 18 minutes, but with an interruption which probably accounted for about 2 minutes, so an acceptable time by my standards.

    FOI – 5ac PASS
    LOI – 2dn SINCERE
    COD – 23ac LAST

  19. sorted in 5 minutes, then a further 2 mins and change to see SINCERE, even with all the crossers.

    7:16 in the end.

  20. FOsI MUSICAL and MEMORABILIA. Easy peasy, I thought.
    Went to school near LLANDUDNO and SKEDADDLE sprang to mind immediately too. I don’t think it is American.

    After rushing through I stuck in NW corner, with POsI MANGO (having also biffed Melon) , CROSSWORD and SINCERE, BRETON.
    LOI LAST!

    Much guessing then parsing today. Couldn’t parse LOCKET.

    But I enjoyed it – thanks for helpful blog, Don.

    Edited at 2021-01-11 12:20 pm (UTC)

        1. Hah. I went to school the other side of Abergele, Heronwater, before making the long termly journey South. Halcyon days.
            1. You may have had a swimming pool, but we had a large lake in the grounds. Bizarrely it required a run at 7am down through a field, side stepping cowpats to reach it for a daily skinny dip. Definitely was not the halcyon bit. Maybe that was the holidays!
  21. Slightly tougher than usual for a Monday, but clues dropped in regularly, so maybe I’m just a bit slow today.

    Like many, I did not parse LOCKET, looking for N-S, or E-W reversal. But also did not see the hidden KESTREL. Was late to see MUSICAL which was probably my downfall in the NW Corner — LOI SINCERE.

    Indeed, long anagrams with easy anagrinds sets up a good “scaffold” (great turn of phrase, Don)

    COD SKEDDADLE

  22. Reasonably straightforward for me, albeit with a slight misspelling of MEMORABILIA which I’m going to gloss over and forget about. Like some others I failed to parse LOCKET and wasn’t 100% that SEC meant dry (I’m virtually “dry”/”TT” myself just because I’ve never developed a taste for it, so my knowledge of drinks leaves something to be desired). Anyway, a most enjoyable puzzle, so thanks to Hurley. FOI 1a, LOI and COD 2d, WOD has to be SKEDADDLE, time 23:57.
  23. After a good start, with 1ac/1d going straight in, this turned into a very strange solve. I couldn’t see any of 2d, 3d or 4d, so moved round the rest of the grid and then came back to those as my last three. I thought 4d could be locket, but couldn’t parse it (I’m relieved to see I’m in very good company) so I began to doubt 1ac, Musical, but it really had to be that. Crossword then fell to a pdm, but Sincere had to be dragged out via an alphabet trawl. I still couldn’t parse Locket, but in the absence of any other options I decided to stop at the 30min mark. CoD to 17ac, Llandudno, just ahead of what I wasn’t, 16d Adroit. Invariant
  24. No problems really today, although MUSICAL did seem too easy to be true. I love the word SKEDADDLE. And good to see one of my favourite Welsh resorts get a mention; sadly out of bounds at the moment.
  25. I must be thick as I did not understand 75% of the clues and gave up not even remotely easy for those of us starting this puzzle game. Thanks to the blogger for not commenting 5hat it was easy.
    1. Well I think it might have been your comment before that made me decide to stop making that sort of judgment, was it? And I don’t think the blog is any the worse for it. So if it helps to keep you going I am very pleased.

      If there is anything else that you feel I could do to make the explanations any clearer then do mention it.

      And please – it’s nothing to do with being thick. It’s just a question of experience. Personally I’ve been doing the Times Cryptic for over 40 years. When I started I promise you my grids were as blank as yours but now I finish it every day. But then you’d expect me to after all that wouldn’t you? Now that would perhaps be thick. If I were still looking at blank grids after 40 years then I would probably have decided my energies were better directed elsewhere. But even then, probably not thick, just not good at crosswords.

      Alan Turing wasn’t thick. But he was by his own admission no good at crosswords. The claim made by Benedict Cumberbatch’s character in his interview in The Imitation Game is merely dramatic licence.

      All the best

      Don

      1. It was more than just dramatic licence. The Cumberbatch film was a travesty of Turing’s work at Bletchley Park and his character as a whole. Far better see Breaking the Code (1996) starring Derek Jacobi as Turing.

        Edited at 2021-01-11 02:08 pm (UTC)

        1. Agreed! I could have said more but I was only trying to make the point about being good and bad at crosswords and whether that had anything to do with intelligence. I believe I did see Breaking the Code some time ago but it would bear another viewing and it’s something the wife would enjoy as well.
  26. ….as it revives childhood memories for us both. LLANDUDNO is still unarguably a resort, complete with pier, but watch out for the seagulls – and the countless mobility scooters. Further up the coast, Rhyl, once a resort of choice for Black Country folk, has fallen into serious decline. Avoid !

    A nice enough puzzle from Hurley. I had no problems with spelling, and I’ve met the “reversal” of LOCKET somewhere before (although I suspect it was in a 15×15). These are the sort of setter’s tricks that newer solvers should try to digest. I’ve said it before – it’s like learning a new language with different grammatical rules.

    FOI MUSICAL
    LOI LAST (rather aptly !)
    COD CANVASS
    TIME 3:38

    1. I try to avoid my hometown, Rhyl, but it is difficult to do so when my parents still live there!
  27. We finished in 10 minutes which suggests that we didn’t find it overly challenging. Lots to enjoy – thanks Hurley.

    FOI: musical
    LOI: sincere
    COD: skedaddle (lovely word).

    Thanks Astartedon for a great blog.

  28. A good start here, with MUSICAL going straight in, followed very quickly by the next three or four clues. I rarely start with 1a so was feeling optimistic. But then …. oh dear, a painful stagger to the end! We had a great time in Llandudno a couple of years ago, but I think it’s probably only the goats that are visiting these days 😊

    FOI Musical
    LOI Last – couldn’t see it so an alphabet trawl slowed me down
    COD Stand – neat surface
    WOD Skedaddle
    Time 19 minutes

    Thanks Hurley and Don

  29. Another struggle for me. You wouldn’t think I’d been doing these for over three years…. I couldn’t parse musical or locket, didn’t see the hidden indicator for kestrel, and so on.

    The anagrams, unusually for me, went in quite quickly.

    Hopefully, tomorrow will be more my sort of resort….

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