Quick Cryptic 2747 by Breadman

Author   BletchleyRejectPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic

 

I always look forward to Breadman’s puzzles and this did not disappoint.

There is the usual sprinkling of Q, J, X and Z’s and there’s something else going on. If you haven’t noticed it, click below to see what it is:

Breadman often performs wondrous tricks with the placement of the less common letters in the grid but tantalises with the pangram, which often falls one or two letters short. This however is a double pangram, quite an achievement in a 13×13 grid.

 

I did very much enjoy this but made heavy weather of it, just avoiding the SCC in 19:36. I could pretend that I was looking for the grid treats on offer, but that would be fibbing; I was just plain slow, particularly in the SW corner with 22a and 20d, my last two in.

Thanks to Breadman

Definitions underlined in bold, deletions indicated by strikethrough.

Across
7 Scottish poet avoiding southern stream (4)
BURN – BURNS (‘Scottish poet’) with S deleted (‘avoiding southern’)
8 Lift the Spanish woman before rocky outcrop (8)
ELEVATOR – EL (‘the Spanish’) EVA (‘woman’) TOR (‘rocky outcrop’)
9 Disregard wild region (6)
IGNORE – Anagram (‘wild’) of REGION
10 Three successive characters, having fish, pay (6)
DEFRAY – D E F (‘Three successive characters’) RAY (‘fish’)
11 Writing material on king revealing mental quirk (4)
KINK – INK (‘Writing material’) following, in an across clue (‘on’) K (‘king’)
12 One enters bar and luxury hotel somewhere on French coast (8)
BIARRITZ – I (‘One’) contained in (‘enters’) BAR (‘bar’) RITZ (‘luxury hotel’)
15 Jeremy peripherally traps wild cat, heading off danger (8)
JEOPARDY – JeremY (‘Jeremy peripherally’) contains (‘traps’) LEOPARD (‘wild cat, heading off’)
17 Cry of enthusiasm, hearing second part of brotherly pop group (4)
JEEZ – Aural wordplay (‘hearing’) of BEE GEES (‘second part of brotherly pop group’)

Queenslanders might like to claim the Gibb brothers as Brisbane’s most famous sons, although the Brits, including those on the Isle of Man, may justifiably have something to say about that.
18 Canadian region’s mosque becomes partly apparent (6)
QUEBEC – Hidden (‘partly apparent’) in ‘mosQUE BEComes’
21 Wearing struggle with wife is visible (2,4)
IN VIEW – IN (‘Wearing’) VIE (‘struggle’) W (‘wife’)
22 Seafood sauce artist knocked back in small harbour (8)
MARINARA – AR (‘artist knocked back’ = reversal of RA) contained in (‘in’) MARINA (‘small harbour’)

No excuses, I had a complete mental blank on this one; about the most well-known ‘seafood sauce’ there is.
23 Spindle left in fire (4)
AXLE – L (‘left’) contained in (‘in’) AXE (‘fire’)
Down
1 Quantity of paper around AGM complicated situation (8)
QUAGMIRE – QUIRE (‘Quantity of paper’) containing (‘around’) AGM (‘AGM’)

Now refers to 25 sheets of paper, or one twentieth of a ream; I can never remember which is which. According to Collins and the OED a QUIRE can also refer to (i) 24 sheets of paper and (ii) in earlier times, “four sheets of paper or parchment folded to form eight leaves”.
2 Release clipped hound, barking satisfactorily (6)
UNHOOK – Anagram (‘barking’) of HOUND (‘clipped hound’) then OK (‘satisfactorily’)
3 Maybe stag recruits engineer and doctor for festive time (8)
DECEMBER – DEER (‘Maybe stag’) contains (‘recruits’) CE (‘engineer’) and MB (‘doctor’)

I think the ‘festive time’ is meant to include Advent as well as Christmas.

We had CE for civil engineer in a crossword not a million miles from here very recently. CE also comes up in the dictionaries and search engines as an abbreviation for a chief or chemical engineer. According to Wikipedia, “CEng” refers to a chartered engineer, an engineer registered in the UK with the Engineering Council who has both postgraduate qualifications and significant practical experience; I couldn’t find anywhere that CE can be applied in this context as well.
4 Recognise duke, tournament player (4)
SEED – SEE (‘Recognise’) D (‘duke’)
5 Blunder initially riles boss (6)
GAFFER – GAFFE (‘Blunder’) Riles (‘initially riles’)

As heard on British TV programmes. Not used much in this part of the world and noted as “British” in Webster.
6 Shot, dram occasionally, that’s often mixed with whisky (4)
SODA – Alternate letters (‘occasionally’) of ShOt DrAm

An appropriately alcoholic surface.
13 Play, with Act One terribly unorthodox (8)
ATYPICAL – Anagram (‘terribly’) of PLAY ACT I (‘one’)

Anagram blindness today. This took ages.
14 Most of them reportedly circled English woodland tract (3,5)
THE WEALD – THEM (‘Most of them’) then aural wordplay (‘reportedly’) of WHEELED (‘circled’)

The word WEALD itself, marked as ‘archaic’ in Collins, means forested or woodland country. I knew the term THE WEALD referred to an area somewhere in S. England but had to look it up for further details. For non-UK solvers who (like me) don’t know, it’s the area of Hampshire, Surrey, West Sussex, East Sussex and Kent, once covered with forest, between the North and South Downs.
16 Posh British student in picture generally known (6)
PUBLIC – U (‘Posh’) B (‘British’) L (‘student’) contained in (‘in’) PIC (‘picture’)
17 Cheery Jack round with medicine bottle? (6)
JOVIAL – J (‘Jack’) O (’round’) VIAL (‘medicine bottle?’)

The question mark I suppose as a VIAL may, but does not have to, contain medicine.

Collins has VIAL as “a less common variant of phial”; I would have thought the reverse.
19 Asian river tour and meal — each fifty per cent off (4)
URAL – toUR meAL (‘tour … meal – each fifty per cent off’)

‘- each fifty percent off’ meaning half of the letters of each word.

One of the commonest non-UK crossword land rivers which I decided to finally look up. It runs about 2,400 km through Russia and Kazakhstan, flowing S. from the Ural Mountains, then W. and S. again before ending in the Caspian Sea. It is regarded as one of the boundaries between Europe and Asia, hence ‘Asian river’.
20 Persuade helmsman to grab key (4)
COAX – COX (‘helmsman’) containing (‘to grab’) A (‘key’)

A as an example of a ‘key’ in music; I know not everyone approves of the vagueness of this. My LOI. As you do, I became stuck on “captain” for ‘helmsman’, even though it’s not an abbreviation I’d ever come across before.

109 comments on “Quick Cryptic 2747 by Breadman”

  1. When the first six or seven acrosses went straight in one after another I thought I was in line for something fast, but hit a QUAGMIRE in the lower half to finish in 8.34. A nice puzzle from Breadman, and well done on the double pangram. I saw there were two Xs, Zs and Qs but didn’t go to the trouble of checking the whole alphabet. Excellent blog BR, I too was thrown by The Weald and wasn’t aware that JEEZ was a cry of enthusiasm. I wasn’t helped by thinking the band might be Oasis. Speaking of Queenslanders claiming things, I hear the Brisbane paper this morning had a front page celebrating ‘Queensland’s eight gold medals’ in Paris. That includes those won by Arianne Titmus, who is actually a Tasmanian but apparently trains on the Gold Coast…

  2. Some of this was a bit obscure (JEEZ, BIARRITZ, THE WEALD, URAL) but I guess the pursuit of the double pangram is the most important thing here.
    I think a few of these clues were very much “you either know it or you don’t” and not knowing, for example, that the Bee Gee’s were brothers (and a pop band), meant it was more or less a guess.
    I’m sure the old people were fine and those who have been doing crosswords for years know all this, but they can just do the 15×15. I feel that these kind of clues are so unnecessary for making an enjoyable puzzle. I would love to see GK and obscure/outdated definitions eliminated from crosswords, they add a huge barrier to entry for no real gain as far as I can tell. I’m here to solve word puzzles, not for a history lesson on ancient bands!

    1. Guilty, m’lud! I think a bit of “non-ancient” GK is fair enough but I agree the bands here do tend to be a bit on the “ancient” side. If the name of any band beyond about the early-1990’s is required, I’m sunk. I was watching a TV programme the other night and “Alice in Chains” was mentioned in hushed tones (unlike the volume at which their music is played, I’m guessing) as a legendary band; NHO ’em I’m afraid!

    2. I think somebody around here coined the expression ‘One person’s obscurity is another person’s general knowledge’ so eliminating both would be asking a bit much!

    3. Just asked by Gen Z daughter if she knew The Bee Gees. She did and knew they were brothers. Things like U for posh and L for student annoy me more.

      Normally struggle with Breadman, this was ok, if a little tough.

    4. I’m first to complain about obscure clues (not being a 15×15 solver) and have done previously on this blog. But I don’t have an issue today.

      Biarritz is very well known as a place, for example, and easily achieved with the wordplay.

      Similarly, the Ural is not really obscure and the word play offers you only four options which are resolved with checkers even if you’ve never heard of the Ural.

      I’ll add that I still consider myself a beginner and that I’m under 40… I think the true oldies are less likely to know about the Bee Gees in fact.

  3. DNF. I gave up on this one with 15 minutes on the clock, two answers completely missing and one other doubtful because I was unable to parse it. It was incorrect anyway.

    The first missing answer was JEEZ at 17ac where no words came to mind to fit the checkers and definition, and mention of ‘pop group’ in the clue discouraged me from pursuing the matter as I assumed it would be one I never heard of. As things turned out I would have known the Bee Gees but I’d never have thought of JEEZ because ‘cry of enthusiasm’ is an unsignalled definition by example of a word that I’d consider more of an oath or cry of annoyance.

    My other failure was at 22ac where ‘seafood’ brought thoughts of CALAMARI which I knew wasn’t correct but I had problems thinking past it. I’ll take Bletcher’s word that that MARINARA is the most famous seafood sauce there is, as I never heard of it and this is the very first time it has appeared here. Incidentally a little research reveals that despite its seafaring name a standard classic MARINARA sauce doesn’t contain seafood. Seafood may be added to the sauce in recipes for certain dishes but marinara is commonly served plain, often just with pasta.

    I should have spent more time thinking about parsing at 2dn as I was tempted to biff UNLOCK for ‘release’ and then decided that UNDOCK was more likely. I was planning to revisit this at the end but as mentioned above the end never came so I never went back to it.

    1. I was thinking about the seafood dish spaghetti MARINARA, rather than the sauce, which I am informed by Wikipedia are different. The seafood dish is pasta with various fresh seafood goodies mixed with a tomato-based sauce. As you say, MARINARA sauce is a pasta sauce containing tomatoes, onion, garlic, oregano +/- parsley cooked in olive oil but without any seafood in the recipes I found; what it has to do with seafood, as suggested by the name, I’m not certain.

      I tend to agree that JEEZ is not specifically a ‘Cry of enthusiasm’, as also pointed out by Lindsay O and galspray, and if JEEZ is seen as an exclamation which can be used to mean a number of emotions or responses, I guess it is an unsignalled definition by example. I parsed it as JEEZ as an example (OK, perhaps a slightly iffy one) of ‘Cry of enthusiasm’.

    2. I’m totally with you on JEEZ being a cry of frustration or annoyance, though I suppose blasphemy is as good a way as any of expressing enthusiasm.

    3. We put in calamara thinking it must be be singular of calamari until a check showed the DPSs

    4. Oh, my experience exactly J.
      NHO MARINARA, couldn’t work out JEEZ, so I submitted without leaderboard to hide any possible embarrassment of a pink’un (I know, it’s never stopped me before).
      For a Quickie, defintely a Slowie for me.

      1. Agree with all the above. Cheated on the NHO marinara, which only has seafood in it in Oz according to Wiki. I would call the non-Oz tomato based sauce Neapolitan.
        Jeez from same source is obsolete form of geez; Jesus isn’t mentioned, but I fluked the answer.
        The Weald had me foxed for ages; ibid weald is archaic. So all in all I see why people didn’t like it, but I did.

    5. Yes, when I hear someone shouting ‘Jeez!’, it’s a shout of frustration, not in any way, positive.

  4. DNF. First time I’ve crashed and burned on the Quickie for a while. Just couldn’t see (didn’t know) THE WEALD, not helped by being slightly unconvinced by JEEZ. Spotting the double pangram would have calmed the doubts over JEEZ, but that’s never going to happen.

    Eventually called for help after twenty minutes had elapsed. On the bright side that means I can now hang out in the SCC with all the cool kids.

    Thanks Breadman for the challenge and Bletch for the great blog.

  5. Nice puzzle! But was held up for ages by ATYPICAL as I had ON VIEW for IN VIEW. Now I think about it, with ‘what have you got on’ vs ‘he’s in slippers’, only the latter can directly substitute ‘wearing’, so fair enough. 11:57.

  6. A very fast start followed by a miserable slog to get to THE WEALD and JEEZ. I found DEFRAY hard too – and MARINARA.

    Ninas are never worth it – apart from that Half Man Half Biscuit one about Joy Division Oven Gloves – and I’m now adding double pangrams to the list.

  7. DNF

    In very good company with Galspray it seems

    Lots of nice clues but JEEZ was very odd (not a cry of enthusiasm, more an expression of frustration in my book) whilst I was well beaten by MARINARA like Jackkt struggling to see beyond CALIMARA.

    1. Also DNF because of JEEZ. Seemingly lots of us see JEEZ as a cry of frustration rather than enthusiasm.

      Also failed on THE WEALD so not even with the chums in the SCC today.

  8. No serious problems until hitting the SE where THE WEALD and JEEZ put up some resistance – the latter of which caused all sorts of eyebrow action. It may be ‘in the usual sources’ but in my mind it’s an oath rather than a cry of enthusiasm.

    Whilst a double pangram ( which I actually spotted for once) is very clever I do think this clue is an example of how themes etc can be the cause of slightly dodgy clues.

    Started with BURN and finished in JEEZ in 8.34.

    Thanks to BR and Breadman

  9. I only spotted the pangram at the finish, but then only learned it was a double on arriving here.

    If the Bee Gees are “ancient” then I really am getting old, and that’s a “Tragedy”.

    I didn’t find the puzzle as inaccessible as many (and the number of solvers with errors at this early stage is over a third at 17 from 48 completions) but realized in passing that THE WEALD would present quite a challenge to non-UK solvers.

    It took me around 30 seconds for my LOI, not least because I only know it as a Subway filling, and they serve it with meatballs – hardly seafood! It’s amazing the crap one eats in Motorway Service Stations….

    FOI BURN
    LOI MARINARA
    COD GAFFER
    TIME 5:12

  10. Like others had a great start with several of the acrosses written straight in. As soon as the second J appeared I thought double pangram which was the only way we got LOI Weald by alpha trawling double letters to finally find the w.

    We started with Jove thinking “by Jove” and maybe Bon Jovi were brothers ??? Then after a grid check saw the dps and Mrs RH biffed the missing second z!

    All in all with a couple of missteps finished in 28.18

    Thanks Breadman and BR for the comprehensive blog (I think English is part of the definition for 14d).

    1. Thanks v. much. Blog now emended to include ‘English’ as part of the def for THE WEALD.

      1. Fortunately arrived late into the club to find my usual seat available but recently vacated, evidenced by a lot of crumbs left on the table and a smudge of jam. Spotted the double pangram as pangrams are the only NINA I ever notice but the didn’t help with WEALD and I biffed JEEZ without associating it with Bee Gees whom I overlooked.
        A lot of time spent trying to justify Unlock in vain before OK came to mind. 40 mins.
        Thanks Breadman and BR

  11. A DNF too as I left 17ac J_E_ with no idea where to go with it. I wouldn’t have thought of JEEZ as a ‘Cry of enthusiasm’ and I didn’t spot the double pangram.

  12. 29:58 – cry of elation and happiness to finish it just inside the thirty minute mark but certainly didn’t shout “jeez”.

    I went looking for pangrams from the off with it being Breadman and reached my last three to do at 13mins and they came at roughly 5min intervals.

    First AXLE, then JEEZ where I was struggling to get past Bros 🙄 The Bee Gees are well known and as I recall were the first act to have a UK #1 in the 60s, 70s, 80s but two-thirds of them are now dead and it’s 40-50years since their heyday. Obviously the Righteous Brothers and Beach Boys weren’t going to fit. Like others, I would see Jeez as a cry of frustration – I’ve always assumed it’s a blasphemous contraction – but would also have spelled it geez.

    When JEEZ went in and saw it next to BIARRITZ I went back to my theory it was a double pangram and spent the next 2-3mins checking off letters to find a second W was required. That finally gave me THE-WEALD. Have to say I was thinking of Stow-on-the Wold and had taken the sound alike of “circled” to be “walled”.

    Overall mixed feelings about this one. Those two in the SE aren’t obscure per se but I doubt they are ever going to spring to mind quickly which surely disqualifies them from a Quick Cryptic

  13. Another DNF, failing on UNHOOK (I had unlock for a while, couldn’t parse it but couldn’t think of anything else so gave up). But even before then I was very slow, and ended asking the Doorman if the SCC took people with a qualifying time but incomplete grid. I think his reply was “Yes, if you can find room – we’re very busy today”.

    Most of my comments have been made by others – in particular I agree that JEEZ is a cry of frustration or annoyance not enthusiasm (it is in origin a swear word, being a “euphemism” for Jesus), and that the clue for MARINARA was misleading to the point of being erroneous (cluing a sauce which contains no seafood and is often served without seafood as “seafood sauce”, no qualifying question mark seems a bit iffy to say the least). And I fully echo Mendesest’s comment that Ninas and other devices seldom make for satisfactory puzzles, as the contortions necessary to complete the theme override the objective of setting a good puzzle.

    As for the Weald, the name is cognate with the Wolds (as in Yorkshire), the pair showing the standard southern/northern English vowel shift (cf chilled/cold) and both being connected to the German Wald or forest … trails off into long etymological digression and loses his last few remaining readers …

    Many thanks BR for the blog
    Cedric

    1. ‘Ninas and other devices seldom make for satisfactory puzzles, as the contortions necessary to complete the theme override the objective of setting a good puzzle.’ Hear hear Cedric, these words should be repeated aloud by every setter before they start their day’s work.

    2. Well said, Cedric and Mendesest. I remember saying the same (perhaps less succinctly) on this blog many moons ago.
      I was roundly rebuffed at the time.
      It think it is always easy to spot a puzzle where the tail (the compulsion to include particular letters) wags the dog (a coherent and well-balanced puzzle).

      1. Goodness me but you are both on dangerous ground here. If you encourage me I might find it very hard to stop!

  14. Early start on this one in deepest Devon and it fell into place very nicely: just avoided the SCC with my last two, JEEZ and JOVIAL. Originally I put GEEZ thinking of GEE WHIZ but cheery Jack had to start with J so I amended. Enjoyed QUAGMIRE and BIARRITZ but COD to DEFRAY – I started at the wrong end of the alphabet and thought I was onto something with STU- but no joy! So I worked all the way back… Thanks Breadman and BletchleyReject.

  15. 29 minute DNF.

    I am utterly useless.

    Put UNLOCK for 3dn and MARIRANA for 22ac (not a typo, just incompetence).

    Enjoyment – nil
    Achievement – nil
    Frustration – colossal

    Yet another week wasted.

    Why do I bother?

    Thanks for the blog.

  16. 15:13 (Battle of Flodden. Scottish army defeated by combination of English army and unexpected marshy ground)

    I originally dithered between IN VIEW and ON VIEW, going for the latter on the basis that if you are wearing something you have it on. This delayed seeing the ATYPICAL anagram.
    Held up in the SE corner. I’m another one who thought of Oasis and the Righteous Brothers, before eventually remembering that the BeeGees were a pop group, and hoping they were brothers. THE WEALD was my LOI.

    Thanks BR and Breadman.

  17. Tough but mostly fair, made harder than it needed by being particularly stupid this morning – failing to spot the anagram indicators for 9a and 2d, and taking ages over BIARRITZ (despite once having a house there). The 18a hidden also took far too long to spot.

    A DNF as I had to reveal THE WEALD to unlock the SE corner, but a few minor gripes aside, an enjoyable half hour. Minor gripes? JEEZ was poorly defined as others have mentioned (although the Bee Gees are hardly obscure!); ‘festive time’ for DECEMBER seems very loose; and MARINARA is not a seafood sauce (yes, you can put seafood in it, but that is not why it is thus named). None of this is the fault of it being a double pangram though – the words are all fine, it was the clues that caused the gripes!

    FOI BURN
    LOI JOVIAL (having revealed WEALD)
    COD BIARRITZ once the penny finally dropped

    Thanks Bletch for parsing some I couldn’t, and Breadman for the challenge.

  18. Jeez, (not expressed enthusiastically) the SCC is rammed today, and clearly a lot are, like me, DNFs drowning their sorrows and frustrations. A curate’s egg of a puzzle to me, some good clues and some, MER….
    Liked DEFRAY, JEOPARDY.
    There are many brotherly bands, or band names with “ brother”, and I gave up trawling through quite a lot who came to mind. Even so, I doubt I would have equated JEEZ with the definition as I read it. Saw it was likely to be a double pangram by then but didn’t slog through checking all the doubles, which might have got me there.
    Struggled with the IN ON with VIEW before working out ATYPICAL.
    Very clever to have achieved the double, but maybe more fun for Breadman than for me today.
    And if the dictionary def of marina is a small harbour, it needs revising – any marina so described on the south coast is a expanse of huge pontoons and ancillary buildings housing dozens, often hundreds of boats , dwarfing any original harbour.

    1. My younger son has recently returned from a few years living and working in St Peter Port, Guernsey. When Mrs Random and I visited him for the first time he explained that the island’s rich inhabitants moor their yachts on the southern side of the marina and the the northern side is reserved for the yachts belonging to the island’s poor. Nuff said!

  19. This was mostly a steady and enjoyable solve for me but a DNF. Not really happy with JEEZ – the contracted blasphemy is an Americanism and when I’ve heard it it is more used in frustration or annoyance than delight! That stopped me getting The Weald. As an Englishman I might have been expected to know it, I suppose, but it’s particular rather than general knowledge I would suggest.
    Thanks Breadman and Bletchley Reject!

  20. 8:41

    JEEZ is definitely not a cry of ‘enthusiasm’, more one of shock when you find a massive spider in the bath.

    MARINARA I only know from Subway’s Meatball Marinara, a level to which I admit having stooped some years ago – I’m still in recovery…

    I thought THE WEALD was bloomin’ hard if you have never heard of it, and don’t live anywhere nearby – growing up in South London was close enough to know of it, though there is also a WEALD in North West London close to Harrow.

    Thanks Breadman and Bletch

    1. Yes, Harrow Weald and neighbouring Wealdstone are named after it. Harrow & Wealdstone station is on the mainline and Underground system.

    2. There’s also North Weald in Essex. Site of an RAF airfield in the Battle of Britain.

  21. Like others, I raced through the top half, before struggling to complete the lower section. Took ages to see the anagram for ATYPICAL – no idea why, as it was clearly indicated. Also think JEEZ is a cry of frustration not enthusiasm. Otherwise an enjoyable QC today. Thanks BR and Breadman.

  22. MARINARA isn’t a seafood sauce. It’s a tomato and garlic sauce which can be added to anything (often but not always seafood) or indeed served on its own with pasta. So that’s just wrong in my book.

    And JEEZ is not enthusiasm. Collins: “an exclamation of exasperation, shock, or surprise”.

    So not that impressed with this one. 09:32. Thanks Breaders and Bletchers.

    1. To be fair, Chambers and SOED include ‘enthusiasm’ amongst their definitions of JEEZ so the setter is off the hook with that one, but I’d never heard it used like that and would never have thought of it so I would have appreciated the wordplay being a little more helpful.

      1. I’ve thought about this all day. The fact is that dictionaries are not arbiters of what is widely deemed correct but recorders of what people have used words for. So if a very small number of people choose to use Jeez as an expression of enthusiasm, dictionaries will record the fact that they have done so without passing judgement on whether the usage is correct (whatever “correct” means).

        Secondly, our setters are trying to challenge and mislead us – that is the point. But they have to do so within rules, or the puzzle becomes unsolvable – we are not in the realm of Humpty Dumpty who could use a word to mean whatever he liked.

        So I conclude that Breadman was entitled to clue Jeez as an expression of enthusiasm – because there is evidence that others have done so before him – but duty bound by the “rules” to indicate that he was straying way way outside normal usage. Which he didn’t, and hence Jack’s comment, which I 100% agree with, and others’ less measured annoyance.

        it would have been so easy to clue this better, as for example “Cry of frustration …”. I can’t think why Breadman didn’t, except that he was deliberately trying to be obscure. Which he is entitled to do, but in this case I think he overdid it and forgot the (unwritten) rules of the game.

    2. You will appreciate Breadman more if he saves you from ordering a Pizza Marinara in Australia. As well as the items you mention, it will also be topped with the ever mysterious ‘Seafood Extender’. Nobody knows what is in that!
      Tough but mostly fair – thanks Breadman and Bletch

      1. Wow – now I’ve googled that, I see that it’s like what the UK calls “crab sticks” (no crabs are involved). Yuk!

        1. My wife has a penchant for crab sticks. I’ll eat most things, but draw the line there.

        2. I seem to remember a local fast food outlet offering a Marinara Pizza which included anchovies among the toppings. I never tried it, as I reckon the only sane use of anchovies is as an ingredient in Lea & Perrin’s Worcestershire Sauce (essential with a shepherd’s pie!).

          1. I believe in the past – when food from the sea was not such a scarce resource – they were also ground up to use as fertiliser for agricultural soil.

  23. As my finishing time of 14.00 suggests, I found this tough. I did all the hard work by getting some of the harder answers like BIARRITZ and THE WEALD, but on checking found I had made a stupid mistake by putting in JEAPORDY. So as Eric Morecambe might have said, all the right letters but not necessarily in the right order. Pure carelessness as I know perfectly well how to spell both LEOPARD and the answer.

  24. Had “ON” for “wearing” (equally possible?) so no wonder I couldn’t get ATYPICAL – and stupidly failed to see MARINARA. Thanks to BR for the blog.

  25. What a lot of moaning from the blogging regulars! Speaking as one who rarely escapes the confines of the SCC and who can only manage the 15×15 if it has a snitch of less than 75, I was still able inch my way to completion of this one (fully parsed and without any help from spotting the Nina). If all the Quickies conformed to some defined as a set of rules, wouldn’t that take away all the fun? Please keep up the challenges Mr Breadman.

    1. Have to say I agree.

      Also agree with the quote jacket put in one of his posts:
      “One person’s obscurity is another person’s general knowledge”.
      I really can’t see how a crossword could be written without using at least some general knowledge.

  26. MARINARA couldn’t be anything else, given the wordplay, and spaghetti marinara is generously sauced with seafood. There is, somewhat confusingly, marinara sauce, which is just a tomato sauce, but is it really so confusing that given the plain as day wordplay you wouldn’t just write in MARINARA and move on?

    JEEZ – try the vowels between J and E – A doesn’t work, E could work, I doesn’t work, O could work, U doesn’t work. Let’s try E – looks most likely – what could it end with? R – nonsense given the definition, P – it’s a vehicle, Z – JEEZ – oh, that sounds like the second half of the BEE GEES. Close enough on the definition, pop it in.

    It’s a puzzle folks, it’s why we’re here isn’t it? Some you win, some you lose, and apart from the iffy definition for JEEZ, which could have been fixed by changing enthusiasm to a different word, there’s nothing at all wrong with this puzzle, certainly no “contortions”, other than those you might expect in a cryptic puzzle. Congrats to Breadman for making a double pangram puzzle. These things pass me by, but I’m glad that someone out there is making the effort. Just like the daily NINA in the concise – never see it, but I always look at the comments to see what it is.

    In real life, I’m a bit of a miserable sod, but jeez, I’m a wellspring of positivity here, where the griping if a puzzle doesn’t meet some kind of self-policed platonic ideal of a QC is deafening. EDIT: Not from all quarters by any means.

    Thanks to Bletchers and bravo/a to Breaders.

    7:22

      1. There’s nothing wrong with that! I frequently can’t completely solve the more difficult 15×15 puzzles (or even the supposedly easier ones), and I’ve had a couple of genuine DNFs here over the past few months (rather than typos). Just means the setter beat me that day.

        1. I know. It was tongue-in-cheek, hence the emoji.

          Setters often beat me – and nothing to do with “wavelength”. They just beat me. Pumpa fairs better.

  27. I gave up on this one with perhaps only 60-70% completed. Lost enthusiasm for it. Some obscure words I did not know.

    My verdict: 🫤
    Pumpa’s verdict: out in the rain!

  28. I’ve never heard of Marinara sauce! That was my LOI. JEEZ and THE WEALD also slowed me down. Finished in 14:15. Double pangram, eh – very clever!

  29. My SCC season ticket is turning out to be one of my better investments – sadly, the failure list is also quite impressive. Nearly the same problems as everyone else, albeit I knew The Weald having looked up the mention of it in Reach for the Sky many, many years ago. My last two were the (very) misleading seafood sauce and Coax, which I see has four letters. . . Invariant

  30. 24 mins…

    A couple of tricky ones here, in particular 2dn “Unhook” in which I initially had “Unlock”, “Undock” and a variety of other combinations. However, as I couldn’t parse it, I trusted my instincts and came back to it later. I will have to go and have a look at a map, as I always thought Biarritz was in the Alps.

    FOI – 7ac “Burn”
    LOI – 2dn “Unhook”
    COD – 15ac “Jeopardy”

    Thanks as usual!

  31. Revealed THE WEALD which was annoying as I’d have probably got it if I’d just persevered – well played Breadman! Managed the rest with a shrug over JEEZ but nothing more. A few gripes in the comments again today. Should one expect a crossword tailored to one’s personal ability and level of GK? Just saying. Many thanks for the blog and discussions about clues (and Cedric’s interesting etymological digression!). Thanks BR and Breadman.

  32. For 17a I had GEE for the cry of enthusiasm followed by (hearing) an S for second making GEES which is part of brotherly pop group. Looked all right to me but this made JOVIAL impossible. In any case I could not solve THE WEALD and had UNLOCKED for 2D.
    So a big fat DNF but lots to enjoy otherwise.
    Enjoyed the blog too and learned a few things.

  33. DNF. Failed on JEEZ and THE WEALD. Agree the former is an expression of frustration/ annoyance.
    Managed MARINARA, BIARRITZ, UNHOOK, and biffed DEFRAY which gave me GAFFER.
    Liked JEOPARDY, COAX, JOVIAL, among others. Solved it but DNK URAL was a river, as think of Urals as being a mountain range between Europe and Asia.
    All this has probably been said above, with complaints about pangramx2! Thanks, BR.

  34. Yet another QC that wasn’t Q for me. From BURN to ATYPICAL IN 17:36. I thought THE WEALD was a hard clue, and I live in London, not that far away from it. I liked GAFFER. An enjoyable crossword and some entertaining discussions. Thanks setter, blogger and contributors

  35. I didn’t submit because I didn’t know how to spell THE WEALD. It also turns out that I don’t know how to spell JEEZ (I had gEEs at first which I corrected to JEEs). 9:15 for a DNF and only spotted 1 pangram.

  36. Held up mightily today. DECEMBER started the rot. I couldn’t assemble it and eventually left it until the end when I had all the crossers. THE WEALD also took ages, as did ATYPICAL and MARINARA. Confidently inserting S as the first letter didn’t help. I fully expected pink squares for JEEZ, having only heard of it as an oath or expression of frustration. Got half way up the steps to the club. 19:10. Thanks Breadman and BR.

  37. Hmm…I thought this was a challenging but not difficult QC.
    However I just couldn’t get WEALD – always thrown by homophones which don’t occur to me as a Scot. (As a child I was very confused by the questions in English grammar books in primary school asking you to choose between “which” and “witch” and “Wales” and “whales”! )

  38. It’s all been said, but I want to add my thanks to Breadman and Bletch. Happy to sort of finish given that I was solving in my sleep on my phone on a brutally early slow American train.

      1. Haha don’t take it too literally! But I can’t claim to have been really awake at 4:30 this morning.

  39. Flying along until I hit MARINARA, am of an age where Bee Gees immediately sprang to mind, but even then worried that JEEZ actually meant anything other than a cry of desperation. Technical dnf, but quite self satisfied.

  40. 14:28 I saw the pangram but not the double. I think I first learned of THE WEALD from Rosemary Sutcliffe novels. My sister and I were banned from saying Geez or Gee Whiz but could get away with Cheese Whiz (ghastly orange-yellow dairyish sludge that was a staple nutrient of our childhood).

  41. This is my first post since the trauma caused by Cheeko last Friday (a 75 minute DNF with 9 clues unsolved!) and I am pleased to report that I have now shaken off that experience. Saturday’s Orpheus (32 mins), yesterday’s Joker (20 mins) and today’s 27 minute completion have put me back on par and restored my confidence.

    Today, despite getting ELEVATOR early in the proceedings, I struggled to get started. The full portcullis grid didn’t help, but I had solved only 5 clues by the time I started back round again. However, my momentum picked up and, whilst never feeling fully in control, I found myself with just two left to solve shortly after being ushered into the SCC. My second last in (MARINARA) and LOI (DEFRAY) held me up a little, but I crossed the line happily in 27 minutes. Anything under half an hour is fine by me and meets my criteria for a QC.

    Many thanks to Breadman and BR.

  42. 15.49 DNF. THE WEALD and UNHOOK (I toyed with unlock and uncork) took an age. I finished with JEER, which is as much a cry of enthusiasm as JEEZ. Though it doesn’t rhyme with any sibling pop stars. I did spot the pangram for once but it didn’t help because I didn’t spot the double. Meh. Thanks BR and Breadman.

  43. Failed on MARINARA and JEEZ, so used aids once safely in the club after 20 minutes (and then wrote in ‘jees’ as I had ignored the homophone instruction in the clue). JEEZ I would class as a cry of desperation or frustration or even anger. I would also say that a marina is not necessarily small – in my book it’s a harbour for pleasure craft as opposed to a fishing harbour or an industrial harbour. Anyway I’ve never heard of the sauce so it was always going to be tricky. I saw a lot of unusual letters and assumed it could be a pangram but didn’t check. All in all a poor day.

    FOI – 7ac BURN
    LOI – DNF but would have been 17ac JEEZ
    COD – 15ac JEOPARDY

    Thanks to Breadman and to BR

  44. For once I noticed the double pangram and said to Mr SR that I betted there’d be a lot of comments along the Scooby Doo-ish* lines of “I’d have solved it too if it hadn’t been for those pesky pangrams!”.
    However, I messed this one up by spelling “WEALD” as “Wield” (I’ve been reading some Reginald Hill books recently). Jeez!
    Which reminds me…
    I checked with my 20something daughters – they’ve heard of the Bee Gees just as I’d heard of Acker Bilk, The Platters, Al Martino and other musical acts my parents enjoyed. I even learned some music hall songs from older relatives.
    I also know of some groups/singers that my daughters like – not sure GK has to only occur within one’s lifetime to be obtainable.
    I approve of the yellow card doled out on “Pointless” to the before-my-timers.
    MARINARA would have taken me (a keen and, it seems, a pedantic cook) a while but happily Mr SR came up with it.
    My only very MER was JEEZ but if it’s been found meaning “an enthusiastic cry” in a dictionary, that’s fine by me.
    Thanks, Breadman, for the enjoyable and clever crossword, BR for the educational blog and Cedric for the etymology.

    *If any whippersnappers haven’t heard of the great Great Dane, do Google 😀

      1. 😄
        Just did a recount and it turns out there are only 2 – they just move about a lot.

  45. D***! Never moved past Unlock, so a DNF. Saw a pangram and that helped me finish off the SE but didn’t twig it was a double. Very impressed. Got a bit fixed on Everley Brothers. Nice puzzle and great blog!
    FOI 7a Burn
    LOI 21a In View
    COD 15a Jeopardy

  46. 15:34 but felt longer – a tricky one today, with a MER at JEEZ. It may be in Breadman’s dictionary but the selection of “enthusiasm” seems to me to be a curious choice, and presumably deliberately so.

    Thank you for the blog!

  47. Haven’t read the comments on the blog but I found this hard. I do t think Jeez is a real word and even if it is it is t very nice so it shouldn’t be in a crossword.

  48. An early solve for me today as we have visitors later. Not an easy crossword, but I kept plugging away on an unhelpful grid to finish in around 28 minutes. Having little knowledge of seafood sauces, apart from Marie Rose with my prawns, made MARINARA a struggle. With pop music I know very few artists after about 1985 (though I have heard of Adele and Taylor Swift) and feel much more comfortable with Billy Fury and Eden Kane. My main struggle today is finding a seat in the very crowded SCC.

  49. A real struggle but eventual success apart from spelling of JEEZ – never seen and not recognised as a cry of enthusiasm (I put JEES) . LOI THE WEALD – flash of inspiration! Guessed MARINARA – NHO.

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