Times 24745 – ow’s ya slang, mate?

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time : 9 minutes 47 seconds, which right now is good enough for the top spot of the leaderboard. Of course the crossword has only been live for 18 minutes so that won’t last. I’m starting to get the hang of this online version from the crossword club though I usually type something and see something else completely in the entry in the grid. Most of the answers had clear definitions, so a lot went in without fully thinking through the cryptic, though right now one cryptic is completely eluding me (4 across, better think of it quick or blog the puzzle in reverse order). And we have a pangram! A few puzzles I’ve blogged has come close, but this one has all the letters. Away we go…

Across
1 IRAQI: Q in I,RAI(d)
4 DIPSTICK: I think this is DIP(duck) then STICK(crook as in a staff). Popular term in 70s schoolyards in Australia for someone who wasn’t all that bright. May have been called one occasionally.
8 PULL THE STRINGS
10 RED ENSIGN: RED from Republican, (gard)EN, SIGN – gettable from the enumeration. Edit: no, it’s R,EDEN,SIGN – see first two comments
11 EX,1ST
12 A,U,PAIR
14 FLAP,JACK: a pancake, common term here in the US
17 ISTANBUL: T in (IN,A,BUS)*. Not Constantinople.
18 GROTTO: double subtraction! (bi)G,R(is)OTTO
20 T,RIMS: T being the back of SHORT
22 INELEGANT: I’ll see your double subtraction and raise you a double subtraction and container – ELEG(y) in IN(f)ANT
24 let’s omit this one from the acrosses
25 ASCENDER: sounds like A SENDER
26 SWEET: WE in SET. Never called dessert SWEET before, but ti checks out as a noun
 
Down
1 IMPERIALISTS: anagram of MILITARY,SPIES without the Y
2 A1,LED: for some reason it makes me smile when LED is clued as LIGHT in wordplay
3 INTENTION: IN, then sounds like TENSION
4 DOES IN: DOE,SIN
5 POTENTLY: TENT in POLY
6 (s)TRIKE: in putting the HTML code there I have now written TRIKE three times, no four.
7 COGNIZANT: ZING reversed in CO,ANT. I originally put the less American spelling in
9 STOKE-ON-TRENT: (TOKEN)* in STORE, then NT(New Testament)
13 PETTINESS: TINES in PETS. Evil surface and wordplay that made me laugh
15 PAR,VENUES
16 P,UNI,SHED: and I will be referring to buildings on campus as UNI SHEDS for some time now
19 BEAK,E,R: BEAK for headmaster is new to me, but it’s another bit of slang
21 let’s omit this one from the downs
23 ALKIE: alternating letters in tAbLe KnIvEs, and a last bit of slang to take us home

60 comments on “Times 24745 – ow’s ya slang, mate?”

  2. Yep, you’re both right on the wordplay for RED ENSIGN, should have spotted eden. It pops up so often that when I see “flag” and (3,6) in it goes… I’ll edit the blog.
  3. Took me 33 minutes, with a fair bit of it trying to work out why ‘sing’ might mean energy (7dn) until the penny dropped. Thought several of the surface constructions were first class — 1dn and 17ac for example. But 20ac takes the sweet.
  4. A very enjoyable puzzle – romp, almost – with my favourites being PARVENUE anmd BEAKER, the latter for bringing back memories of schooldays, where the teachers (masters, note, not headmasters) were ‘beaks’. Last in PUNISHED and ASCENDER. 52 minutes – 12 for the last two. Attended closely enough to the wordplay at 7dn to edit ‘s’ to ‘z’ after writing it in.

    In the UK, a flapjack is a biscuit (though I see Oxford plumps for ‘cake’ – clearly borderline stuff)made from oats, golden syrup and melted butter.

  5. Similarly got snagged on potently/dipstick, with an added complication from initially putting SKIPJACK at 14ac. 19 minutes.
  6. I thought 17 was cruel, reviving memories of the triumph over Milan the morning after Liverpool were thumped for the second time this season by little Blackpool. 23 minutes.

  7. Annoyingly failed to convert s to z in 7. I frequently and probably unfairly “correct” pupils’ z’s to s’s in such words as “organisation” in a one-man effort to halt the rizing tide of barbarizm; but even I recognise cognizant is OK. Just. So missed the pangram and an accurate sheet but still quite happy with 18 minutes.
    2. Joe. See John from Lancs comment below…

      -ize is given first in Chambers, Oxford & Collins. It is not an Americanism and certainly not a barbarism. This is a case where we changed while they kept to the original preferred form!

  8. Along with Mctext today this took me exactly 33 minutes.

    I was going to say I’ve never met COGNIZANT before but according to the only dictionary I have to hand at the moment this is the preferred spelling so I must have come across it. This was one of last in because it has more energy stored up within it i.e. GO, which I spotted first and wasted time looking for a word C?I? meaning ‘company’.

    Time was also lost at 4ac where because of my interest in all things theatrical I was thinking ‘turkey’ = ‘flop’ rather than ‘stupid person’.

    I thought the definition at 14ac was a bit loose.

    I learned something new at 13ac. Having raised an eyebrow at ‘character’ for a single personality trait I looked it up and found that it can mean exactly the same as ‘characteristic’ which would have been my choice of word if I had written the clue.

  9. Flew through this one (first time I’ve EVER been able to write that!), and finished with one wrong, the S for the Z in 7d. Had considered ZING, but rejected it as it didn’t look at all right. Amazes me how these puzzles vary in difficulty, but then again, I guess, with all our different experiences/knowledge etc, what one may find easy, others may find less so. Anyway, for me this was a straghtforward solve, and, for that reason, slightly less enjoyable than some other recent more tricky ones (eg, I quite liked the one ANON didn’t like a couple of days ago…!)
    1. How interesting that you enjoy the harder ones more than the easy. I’m with you all the way but not everybody will agree. There have been hot debates on this site in the past on this topic with particularly newish solvers complaining about the harder puzzles. With your attitude no reason why you shouldn’t just improve on these but also have a try at the bar crosswords such as Mephisto, which is blogged on this site.
      1. Personally I like both. A challenge is great but a quick solve is good for the ego!
        As a newcomer to Mephisto I would wholeheartedly recommend having a crack and would make three suggestions if you do:
        1. Get a copy of Chambers if you don’t already have one
        2. Make heavy use of the extremely helpful blogs here
        3. Don’t get discouraged if your early attempts are as disastrous as mine were. I failed to get a single clue on one occasion but have progressed to the point where I managed to finish the last one: my third ever completion. Whether it was my first all-correct completion I will find out at the weekend!
  10. This for me is in the easy but fun category with a lot of slang and some good clue constructions. 20 minutes to solve. Like most I was reluctant to put that Z into 7D but the wordplay left no alternative. When I was at school there would have been consequences for spelling it that way. I thought 20A TRIMS an excellent clue.
  11. Easy one, this, though I too hesitated over cognizant. I see the OED has it as the preferred spelling, but I would never use it. I think in this US-dominated age (though in this particular case it seems not to be Americanis/zed) I will have to get used to regularly using either Z or S in such situations, as the setter indicates..
  12. 30 minutes. Did wonder who Leo Pyane might be (appearing across the middle of the puzzle). Isn’t the origin of 4 across a bit 24?

    The Oxford dictionaries give cognizant first then cognisant, and fraternize (say) in preference to fraternise: the use of z instead of s is not, as Inspector Morse never tires of telling us, an Americanism. Most of my pre-1950 books use ize, and I’ve noticed that it has returned in some recent publications.

  13. Just squeezed in under the Central Line wire at 20 minutes, so a decent challenge, easier once I was aware of the preponderance of informal language. Several took a while to justify, and TRIMS went in dubiously to be confirmed rather later.
    If I had thought to look for the last letter of the pangram, I’d have spent less time puzzling over COGNI(S/Z)ANT and am intrigued to find it’s not seen by Chambers as an American variation, less surprized once I thought of “recognize”, which looks right. Is there a case for pronunciation with the stress on the second syllable? It feels more natural to me, but maybe I’ve been wrong all my life.
    Lots of enjoyable, rather cheeky clues, not least the beautifully disguised anagram for ISTANBUL, but CoD for the campus building in PUNISHED
    1. Cognisant (still hurts to put the z) is shifting its pronunciation to the right i.e. from first to second syllable as so many words do. I don’t like the shift in formidable but it’s accepted now. Shakespeare has commendable accented at the outset (”Tis sweet and commendable in thy nature, Hamlet…’). Controversy is going third from second. Enuff, enuff.
        1. Meant what I said – I hear it sometimes as the first three syllables an anapaest as a back-formation from the adjective.
          1. Obviously I can’t comment on what you hear, but the adjective has accents on both first and third syllables.
            1. Strewth mate, I know that. You do sometimes assume you’re talking to the lesser aware and informed. I’m talking about the noun, whose pronunciation sometimes accents the third syllable in particular, reflecting a stress there in the adjective, shared in that usage with the first… do I send this or not? This once.
              1. I didn’t mean to be condescending. Unfortunately, intonation, as well as interruptions for clarification, aren’t available online.
  14. Not timed today, but solved on the tube between Bond Street and White City, so probably around 10 minutes. AS with a few others, my last in were DIPSTICK/DOES IN/POTENTLY, and probably used up a couple of minutes. No problem with COGNIZANT, which is the way I’d have spelled it anyway. As John says, there are rules for when to use ‘z’ over ‘s’, although most are ignored these days. Have a look here for a fairly authoritative explanation.
  15. Forgot to thank George for the Istanbul link; not heard that song for years. The version I know is by The Four Lads from 1953. The line that always makes me chuckle is

    Why did Constantinople get the works?
    That’s nobody’s business but the Turks’

    1. I know the They Might Be Giants version isn’t the original, but I’ve seen them live a few times, can’t quite say that for the Four Lads
  16. Pleasant, straightforward solve in under 30 minutes (amazes me how often I’m able to report this now – shows how much I’ve learnt from this site). Hesitated over PARVENUES (I wouldn’t have used an ‘e’); ASCENDER seemed rather clunky and unconvincing (glad to see that OED online does not offer ‘climber’ as a defintion – although Chambers does). COD: 16dn – that ‘uni shed’ raised a smile.
  17. 22 minutes. I did this in two goes and I think it would probably have taken longer without the break because I was stuck on DOES IN/DIPSTICK in the NE. So moderately tricky.
    I had interpreted the wordplay for 10ac in the same way as George, “red” for Republican posing no problem for this particular Brit in spite of the fact that it’s the opposite of our own political colour coding. However “end of garden” to signal the last two letters of the word raised an eyebrow and I wonder now if it’s even allowed in Times puzzles. Does anyone know?
    Hesitated like others over the Z where the fact that it was needed to make a pangram helped.
    1. I would have said “end of garden” was N and nothing but N in The Times, but then there was that Musketeer’s opening = D’Art last Friday.
      1. The blog makes it clear that “end of garden” refers to the word “sign” being placed after “eden”. Nothing to do with the last letters of “garden”.
        2. Indeed: I accept that my interpretation of the wordplay was wrong. The question was whether my raised eyebrow at “end of garden” = EN should have been something more. Two raised eyebrows and some tooth-sucking perhaps.
  18. Largely very easy. All but 14ac solved in 18 minutes. Nothing immediately came to mind so I put it away, then the answer came to me when I wasn’t even looking at the puzzle. I rather liked the clue for 19, partly for the very smooth surface and partly for the potentially misleading ‘regularly’.
  19. Did anyone else find themselves in trouble in the NE corner having put in “skipjack” for 14ac? Is there any reason why it is a less satisfactory answer to the clue?

    jfr

    1. I initially did the same but alternative answers (if indeed this is one) are only going to be acceptable if they meld correctly with crossing answers, which the K put the kibosh on in this instance.
  20. As beginners, this compiler certainly pulled our strings. We wasted lots of time falling for the misdirections. Made it finally in 70mins. Thanks to the blog for the help you all provide(even if your timings can be somewhat discouraging!)
    1. Don’t be discouraged, it’s the difference between “beginner” and “OCD doing at least one of these things daily for 25 years and now volunteering to a blog about it”.
  21. 11:19 .. fun puzzle.

    I’m from Zummerzet farming stock so the -z- spelling always feels right!

  22. A mixed bag I thought; 20ac would make it into the crossword clue canon if it weren’t for the slight leap of faith in rims = sides.

    On the subject of crossword ease, I’m generally of the opinion that a hard crossword is a bad crossword in that increasing the level of obsfucation almost inevitably detracts from the readability – the poetic element if you like.

    1. I would go half way with you, in that I agree a crossword with poor surface readings is a bad crossword. But some difficult crosswords have very elegant surfaces, as most of the club monthly crosswords demonstrate.
    2. Can’t let you get away with that. I suggest on this blog at the top you click on “memories” and then find the excellent puzzles. You’ll find in them difficulty through elegance of clue construction
  23. Fun puzzle, as others have said. Unfortunately, I carelessly fell for COGNISANT rather than the “z” version, even though I couldn’t see how the cryptic parsing worked with an “s”.

    8ac was a nice idea, but not entirely satisfactory, I thought, because the phrase for “exert influence” is “pull strings” and not “the” strings. I guess the setter’s defence would be the presence of the ? at the end of the clue, and possibly also that the definition was “reduce size of orchestra quite substantially” rather than “exert influence”. Anyhow, no one else seems to have raised any objection to this clue, so it is probably just me.

  24. About 25 minutes, ending with FLAPJACK, which I was surprised to see, since I thought it was a particularly American term. Some slang has apparently crossed oceans, such as DIPSTICK and ALKIE. Some has not, i.e. ‘beak’. Fun nevertheless. Regards.
  25. A steady straightforward solve. The only cryptic I didn’t get was DIPSTICK. Guessed the answer but couldn’t see “crook” as “stick”. Toyed with idea of “dip” (pickpocket) being the crook. 25 minutes.
  26. I also had to look up DIPSTICK and was wondering if it could be a crook, even though crooks are bent and dipsticks are straight (well, the ones used for checking the oil, or is that chequing the oil?). The meanings of turkey were simply not present enough. That was my reluctant last in and the rest took just over an hour, with POTENTLY next to last but the TENT part filled in very early. Oh, yes, I also tried to put in SKIPJACK until I realized or realised my TENT was going to be followed by LY and not KY. So, actually only the PO was next to last in.
  27. Oops! Oddly, I dont recall seeing cognizant in print (although I must have). A quick google (site:.nz etc) showns a preponderance on cognisant in both NZ and Australia, but conversely they are almost entirely cognizant of the alternative in Canada. Dont know how to isolate US only entries. Anyone … ?
      2. A quick dictionary check of the US references (Websters, Random House, Merriam-Websters, etc.) show COGNIZANT, and the sites don’t recognize (ahem)COGNISANT. I have seen it both ways, though, and have no problem with either.
  28. I’m surprised nobody has commented about this: “uni” is surely slang/modern usage for “university” and I should have thought that a university is not a campus, which is where the uni is.

    The ise/ize controversy (and by the way I think that should be pronounced with the stress on the first syllable, not the second or the third) seems to ignite classicists in particular, who I suspect are the only people who can remember the precise justification for one or the other. A friend of mine is a classicist who used to work at GCHQ in Cheltenham and there was an edict that the s form should always be used. He resolutely continued to use the z form when it was appropriate.

  29. 17:12 for me. I just couldn’t get onto the setter’s wavelength and found this seriously tough, with DIPSTICK, FLAPJACK and COGNIZANT making me nervous, and TRIMS taking me several minutes!

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