24818 – Gone to the dogs?

Author   jackktPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
I completed all of this bar three in 35 minutes but took another 20 to finish it off. The sticking points were the interlocking obscurities at 1ac and 2dn and having only vowels as checkers in 14ac. I also had an error for a while at 3dn which didn’t help. I’ve never heard of the Dickens character and the book of the Old Testament was a long-forgotten memory. I thought the style of the puzzle was a little unusual, very lively and with many unexpected twists and turns. I’ve raised a couple of quibbles, really just thoughts that occurred to me rather than serious complaints. Off we go…

Across
1 BUZ(FUn)Z – Serjeant Buzfuz is a character in Dickens’ Pickwick Papers.
4 A BIT MUCH
10 JACK FR,Over,ST – We have JACK for ‘raise’ here which seems wrong to me. COD seems to agree that it should be ‘jack up’ but Collins appears to sanction ‘jack’ on its own. But I’m inclined not to worry about this as I enjoyed the reference to ‘The Christmas Song’ by Bob Wells and Mel Torme: “Chestnuts roasting on an open fire, Jack Frost nipping on your nose”.
11 UN,BAR – My first thought here was ‘debar’ wondering if this was intended to be a play on certain New York accents, however I swiftly discarded that idea because ‘debar’ has the opposite meaning to the one required and the accent I had in mind is more typical of the Bronx or Brooklyn rather than Manhattan, I think. I’ve never been there so apologies if I have this wrong – I’m only going by films and TV. But anyway, what IS in Manhattan is the UN headquarters where presumably they have such a facility.
12 VIA – Sounds like ‘vier’ unless you’re thinking in German. Maybe ‘vie-er’ explains it better.
13 ROBBER BARON – (Error ban Bob)*
14 VI,RILE – I may be missing something here. ‘With sex drive’ is the definition but ‘slightly mad’ is not so clear to me. I assume it’s a reference to being sex mad. On edit: Thanks to Pat 33 for pointing out ‘sex’ in Latin is VI and  ‘drive slightly mad’ = RILE
16 Deliberately omitted. Vaughan or Boyle or goes to Hollywood might help if you’re stuck.
19 NO-H,OP,ER – Noh is a form of Japanese theatre that I learnt from doing the Times crosswords.
20 NUKING – Sounds like ‘new king’.
22 BEAUTY SLEEP – Cryptic definition.
25 MOAn
26 IN,DIE
27 ICE BUCKET – ICE = ‘top off’ as in put icing on a cake. BUCKET as in rain cats and dogs. Like 10ac I’d have thought an indication of direction was required i.e. bucket down, and again COD agrees but Collins permits it without.
28 HERmITAGE – The Hermitage museum is in St Petersburg.
29 S(KI R)UN – KIR is a cocktail of blackcurrant liqueur and white wine.
 
Down
1 B,Y JO,VE – Just as I’d got used to ‘My’ being ‘Cor’ the setter has come up with an alternative. B for British and Victory in Europe contain an anagram of JOY with ‘sadly’ as the anagrind.
2 cZECH,ARIA,H – The penultimate book of the Old Testament.
3 UP FOR – As if 1ac wasn’t hard enough anyway I contrived to make things worse by putting ‘IN FOR’ as in being due to get a punishment, but of course this wouldn’t explain ‘winning’ so it has to be UP. However being up for something doesn’t necessarily mean one is due to get it, e.g. a prize such as an Oscar.
5 BUTTER-(F)IN, GE,RED – GE from EG (say) reversed.
6 THUMB, MARK – THUMB = ‘hitch’ as in cadge a lift followed by another book of the Bible, this time in the New Testament.
7 hUMBER
8 HARING,EY – EY from YE reversed. We usually have an indication of Olde Englishe words but not on this occasion. This is a very Londoncentric clue and possibly controversial but it’s a minefield so I’m prepared to be shot down in flames if someone knows better. Greyhound racing  used to take place in north London at Harringay Arena and the district, including the name of the tube station was spelt that way too. The arena closed in 1958. When local government was reorganised the London Borough of Haringey was established however this was not until 1965 so it could be argued that HARINGEY cannot apply  either as the venue or as the area of London in which the activity used to take place. On edit: PB’s contribution below points out that Harringay Stadium (where the dog racing took place) remained open until 1987. He has local knowledge. I was not aware that the Arena (closed 1958) and the Stadium were separate entities. I’ve an idea that changing ‘gay’ to ‘gey’ had something to do with sexual politics at the time but I don’t know whether the reports I heard had any foundation in fact.
9 DOUBLE-CROSSING
15 IN-PA(TIE)NTs – A patient or ‘case’ required to stay overnight in a hospital.
17 KIN,G(MAKE)R
18 S,N,OB,BISH – BISH is a quaint and rather old-fashioned word for a mistake.
21 WALTON – NOT,LAW reversed. Sir William of that name.
23 Deliberately omitted. It’s back in the woods somewhere
24 P,LUCK – Bottle as in courage.

49 comments on “24818 – Gone to the dogs?”

  1. Glad it was you blogging and not me. Gave up after an hour to listen to the 8am news with BUZFUZ and UP FOR incomplete. Saw them after a coffee — and only just why! Not sure about VIRILE myself. There must be a bit of double duty going on with “drive … mad” giving RILE. But then, “drive slightly” might be VI{m} as well. Then, we also need “drive” for part of the def. Hope this gets sorted out before I can log in again — tomorrow — as it’s going to drive me nuts!
    (No, I won’t tell the joke about the man with the steering wheel in his underpants!)

    Edited at 2011-04-09 08:56 am (UTC)

  2. About an hour but with help for BUZFUZ. Didn’t know BISH or KIR and plumped for VIRILE without a clue. Had to force myself to enter ZECHARIAH rather than Zachariah.
  3. 36 minutes, after inventing a Dickens character in despair. Mind you I quite like Buzzig (with the always unlikely in for). I doubt whether the reference to ‘The Christmas Song’ was intended: Jack Frost has been a nipper a long time. I’m also puzzled by virile; it doesn’t seem quite to work. (Wondered about ‘id’ in there for some time.)
  4. A good, enjoyable challenge. But DNF (after more than an hour): defeated by BUZFUZ (unknown) and errors with UP FOR (I’d gone for ‘in for’) and ZECHARIAH (now seems ‘obvious’ with jackkt’s explanation but I couldn’t get beyond ‘Zachariah’).

    Thanks for the excellent blog, jackkt, and in particular for the full parsing of the wordplay in NO HOPER, ICE BUCKET, ZECHARIAH and BUTTER FINGERED. I shall be returning later in the day for updates on VIRILE and HARINGEY.

  5. There’s nothing mechanistic about these clues. A lot of highly original stuff which is refreshing. I also got stuck in the NW corner. Got BUZFUZ from wordplay but Googled him to check before entering in the grid – never heard of him. VIRILE my last in based upon “with sex drive” as a definition – don’t understand the rest of it. 30 minutes to solve and pleased to have finished it in that time.
  6. I don’t see what the problem is with IN FOR except that it’s wrong. “Winning” can give so many possible answers (in, for example, as in winning an election) that the poorly defined phrase has too many alternatives to give you a fair crack at the Dickens character.
    BEAUTY SLEEP is an awful clue, VIRILE is opaque apart from its definition, A BIT MUCH is exactly that ( in what way is it a cryptic clue?). NUKING is a horrid sounzabitlike, “take top off” does not suggest ICE because the take gets in the way.
    No time for this (in both senses – I lost patience trying to crack my last 4) I’m crying foul.
    Thanks jacktt for an heroic attempt to blog this thing. This was not a classic Friday toughie – there’s a sense of achievement finishing those. I just thought this skipped over the boundary of fairness.
    CoD (I did find one) to UNBAR, though it’s a horrid word.
    2. Ref the ICE BUCKET clue:
      It’s an instruction: To get cooler (you must) take …
      “Take” is not part of the definition.
      VIRILE is an &lit, BEAUTY SLEEP a cryptic def.
  9. That’s a very creditable time, Jack. Drowsy after getting up at 5 o’clock to watch the Masters, I was hoping for the speed of an Alvaro Quiros drive, but ended up as slow as a Fred Couples wedge, eventually signing for an 83. I also managed to pick up a penalty along the way for putting ‘divine’ instead of VIRILE, which I still cannot fathom.

    Read Pickwick just six months ago, but BUZFUZ rang no bell at all. Finally got it from the wordplay after I had changed ‘on for’ to UP FOR.

    Incidentally, Jack, ‘up’ is fine for winning, as in “United are up three nil”.

    1. I was happy with ‘up’ for winning, it was my original answer ‘in’ that didn’t work so I changed it to ‘up’.
  10. Well done on the collective working out of VIRILE – I thought it might take longer.

    I lived in the LB of Haringey for quite a while, and often mused on the mysterious spelling difference. I never went to Harringay dogs, but the stadium kept going until 1987.

  11. Another who went for Buzzig and in for and who didn’t have a clue how VIRILE worked. Many thanks to pat33. Who would thought it was an &lit? A curious mix which kept me puzzling for about an hour. I liked BUTTER FINGERED, PLUCK & HERITAGE but ICE BUCKET amused me the most (no problem with the “take” – it’s an instruction)
  12. I was going to say that, re 14ac, in memory of Humphrey Lyttelton, “I’m sorry, I haven’t a clue” but I have consulted an expert and I have a theory. My wife was born a Kiwi and so she understands the lingo. The Aussies, particularly, make fun of how Kiwis pronounce certain words and phrases such as ‘Fish & Chips= Fush & Chups’; ‘Sex = Sux’. I asked her how the Kiwis supposedly pronounce ‘Six’ and she said ‘SEX’. So there you have it. ‘SEX’ = Six = VI = VIrile, the mad part already having been explained.

    That said, I found this difficult. Thanks very much jackt, for the explanations for 27ac, 5d and 17d. Was rather pleased I found the incredibly obscure Dickensian character through wordplay. BISH in 18d is also incredibly obscure. In the me-no-like corner I have 4ac: To me the answer didn’t flow from the clue. ‘UP’ in 3d was also not satisfactory for my taste, although others have cited the connection. ‘NUKING’ is, I think, ugly and ‘KING’ for ‘big noise’? And of course, we have VIRILE which has foxed just about everyone, even Peter Biddlecombe over in The Times Forum.
    One clue I did like was 15d; INPATIENT for ‘overnight case’ was nice. No Goon Show quotes today, gang. Too drained after that one

    1. As stated very briefly above, “sex” is Latin for six, which is of course in Roman numerals in the answer. I claim that I did understand VIRILE when solving.
      1. Sorry, in the first place I misunderstood your comment in The Times Forum! I started writing my comment, above, before your first comment had been published here and as I take so long to type, your comment and others appeared in the meantime, making mine look a little silly,
  13. At Harringay Online, we’ve been trying to help folks untangle the confusion started in 1965. We’ve added a short version of the story in an article on the BBC’s H2G2 and a longer version on Wikipedia:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A842942
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Harringay#Etymology

    We’ve also done Wikipedia articles on the Arena & Stadium:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harringay_Arena
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harringay_Stadium

  15. I did this puzzle in what for me are highly unusual conditions: at home, on my own, with no distractions. I found the puzzle pretty tough but finished in just under 20 minutes. I wonder how much the usual distractions of commuting and family life slow me down. No point dwelling on it: I ain’t going to find out!
    Like others, I didn’t understand VIRILE and BUZFUZ was unknown. Like Barry I desperately wanted to put ZACHARIAH but managed to resist and put my faith in wordplay. NOH was unknown to me three or four months ago but is now etched in memory after a couple of recent appearances. The racing link to HARINGEY passed me by completely.
  16. Reassured to see I had the same mistakes (ZACHARIAH, IN FOR), lack of understanding (VIRILE, ICE BUCKET) and gaps in GK (1ac, eg) as others.

    A miserable start to what looks set to be weather-wise (for us in the UK) a fabulous weekend. Enjoy the sunshine, everyone! J

  17. Oh well, after coming here to check that there really was a place/person/thing/latin sex act called HARINGAY, I find that the “eh, let’s put it in” BUZZIG and IN FOR were wrong. Back to the drawing board.
  18. Stumped by this with BUZZIG and IN FOR making it a DNF, albeit an enjoyable one. Having read the blog, I think VIRILE was a great clue – one of several I didn’t see at the time.
  19. Does the entry from PB mean that he was the setter?
    Anyway a lot of moaning today…thought that the puzzle was tough…but enjoyable…
    Buzfuz is such a dickensian sounding name too!
    Didnt understand Virile until i came here… bring the next one on.
    Took me over an hour but delighted to finish!
    1. No. My setting is limited to fiddling about a bit with puzzles already written, and occasional puzzles for the Church Times.
    2. I’m not sure what I make of the expectation that it might have taken contributors to TfTT longer to fathom 14ac. What surprised me is that it took as long as it did for somebody to post the correct explanation.
  21. All I meant was that working out the full explanation was difficult – as indicated by the number of people here and on the club forum who said they wrote it in without full understanding, including someone who just might win the Times Championship one day.
  22. I’ll give myself a B+ for this one. 26/30 without aids – slow and steady. I’m another who guessed BUZZIG and IN FOR. Didn’t know ZECHARIAH and didn’t get VIRILE.
  23. I was in a hurry this morning and had to bung stuff in without properly checking the cryptics. Discovered on coming here that I’d left 14a unanswered with a question mark and that I’d put ZACHARIAH with another question mark. Also forgot to time it but at least 45 minutes with those 2 wrong. I think it was a good puzzle and wish I’d been able to give it more thought.
  24. I’d spent 19 minutes when I stopped to deal with a nasty headache, then forgot to resume timing, but forever would be a rough estimate of my time. Never did get VIRILE, and now that I’ve seen the explanation, I’m happy not to have. I agree with z8, but I also think UNBAR is a stinker; I hesitated to put it in for the longest time, thinking surely the setter didn’t have that in mind. The only B character from Dickens that I could think of was Boffin, until suddenly Zachariah popped into my head (which I had to change to Zechariah), which forced the change from IN FOR to UP FOR, which I still don’t get. VIA, by the way, is pronounced ‘veea’ in my neck of the woods.
  25. I thought this a very original and well constructed puzzle. That being said, I needed aids for HARINGEY, and I fell in the “in for” trap, and like others therefore resorted to BUZZIG, which looked plausible. I enjoyed ‘Anarchy, perhaps’, the IN-PATIENT, BY JOVE=”My!”, PLUCK, and (sorry!) keeping your looks via BEAUTY SLEEP. Nice challenge from the setter. Regards to everybody.
  26. Very much agree with z8b8d8k- not quite right. NUKING, ICEBUKET, HARINGEY, were not great clues, and BUZFUZ is surely a bit obscure. Still can’t fathom Nuking, nor the reason for Manhattan to equal UN, but a very good blog. Mike and Fay
    1. Sorry if the blog wasn’t clear that the United Nations building is on Manhattan. If it has such a facility as a bar it’s a U.N. Bar which may make cocktails available. Any incorrect assumptions are covered by the question mark.
  27. 30:00 – which is when I stopped the clock, still desperately trying to work out why VIRILE should be the right answer. The annoying thing is that VI = “sex” is an old chestnut (as I realised once I’d calmed down and light had eventually dawned). I’m pretty sure it came up in a Championship final in the 1980s in one of Brian Greer’s puzzles – perhaps the first time it had appeared. I twigged it while solving then, but it was very well concealed today – and I seem to be getting worse at spotting &lits. (Sigh!)

    I was slow to get BUZFUZ and ZECHARIAH as well. A very fine puzzle.

    1. Yes, it is an old chestnut and I’m sure it has come up more than once since I became involved in TFTT. That was why I was a bit surprised it took so long for somebody to nail it here today. Obviously as the duty blogger it caught me out too.
    2. Like you I can’t quite believe that I didn’t see VI=sex. It must have been very well hidden to fool so many of us who had not just seen it before but seen it many times!
      1. Which is exactly why I was rather taken aback by Peter’s expectation that it might have taken us longer to come up with the correct explanation. As things turned out he was right and it did take “us” a long time but I wonder how anyone knowing the generally very high standards of contributors to TFTT could have predicted that. If I’d been the setter I might have thought it would fool the newbies but all the old hands will see straight through it.
  28. Same as many others, IN FOR and BUZZIG. As well as the previously unheard-of composer RASTON, on the basis that there might be anarchy if there was no Tsar (seemed much more plausible when I entered it than it does now!)
    1. I imagined that lots of people would go for, or at least start with, IN FOR; but it’s a real relief to find someone else who thought of Raston.
      1. Sure enough, there is a Raston, a reggae musician from Silesia (no, I am NOT making this up). Now, if only he had composed a concerto for theorbo and psaltery.
        1. So it’s obviously something I retained from my many years spent studying Silesian reggae!
          Cheers Kevin, I think you and I deserve extra marks for this one.
    1. Indeed, and this is indicated in the blog though it seems to have got a bit lost in all the other stuff I wrote about this one. But there is also an element of all-in-one about the clue in that the whole thing does define the answer give or take a quibble or two about the different spellings, hence the discussion.

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