Times 24949 – how are you on long words starting with P?

Author   glhPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
Solving time : Didn’t record it – I did this in snatches during a dress rehearsal for a show but I don’t think it took all that long, probably in the 15 minutes range. Although I am completely stumped on 2 down which means I may have made a lucky or an unlucky guess based on the setter’s style (which I think worked – in the middle of writing the blog I saw the wordplay).

Another interesting puzzle where there were a large number of clues that came quickly by either wordplay or definition, but working them out from each other was not easy. I’ll be keen to hear what others think about it, but unfortunately I will not have much time to comment tomorrow (similarly any fluffs I make will probably linger a while, but I’ll be back to clean them up).

Away we go!

Across
1 SWEATSHOP: (WHOSE,PAST)*
6 COPRA: P (from Probe) in COR(well, as in COR BLIMEY), then A, a coconut kernel
9 AVERAGE: got this from the definition and had to go back and work out wordplay for the blog – it’s A, then (be)VERAGE
10 SUMATRA: M.A. in SUTRA
11 ROWED: sounds like ROAD (when solving, I thought it might refer to a subway line and mean RODE, but it turns out the South Circular is a road)
13 SEEING RED: the artist is INGRE(s) in SEED
14 DODECAGON: another one from definition, the wordplay is tricky – it’s NOG(drink),ACE(swell),DO(party),D all reversed
16 GO ON: double def
18 our deliberate across omission
19 TAKE AFTER?: I think this is meant to be STAKE and RAFTER joined together, I can see how the S is gone (not using spades) but not sure how it justifies removing the R? Edit: it’s not RAFTER, it’s just AFTER – see comments
22 PUNCH(magazine),LINE: I liked the definition “End of funny”
24 DARTS: ART in D(angerou)S
25 VEINING: I,N twice in VEG
26 GLIMPSE: IMP in G, LSE (London School of Economics)
28 RIGEL: R.I. GEL
29 NORTH-EAST: another from definition – it’s TSAR,ON(willing) reversed surrounding THE
 
Down
1 let’s leave this one out
2 EXE: my last in and I was prepared to be wrong, but now I see it’s EXECUTE without the CUTE
3 TEAR DUCT: (TRADE)* the (CUT)*
4 HO,ERS
5 P,ASTERN,AK: Author of “Doctor Zhivago” – the AK comes from alternating letters in mArK
6 CE,MEN,T
7 PATERNOSTER: double definition
8 A,LAD,D,IN: that D after LAD coming from the end of entertaineD
12 WI(fe),DERANGING
15 GOTTINGEN: GOT GEN about T,IN
17 DANDYISH: ANDY in DISH
18 POP,OVER: love these little phyllo treats
20 RASHEST: hidden
21 THRILL: H.R. (Human Resources) in TILL
23 ELGAR: Edward the composer – L in RAGE reversed
27 PE,A

42 comments on “Times 24949 – how are you on long words starting with P?”

  1. 47 minutes, head severely scratched. So thanks for the parsing of NORTH-EAST, EXE and (Jack) for TAKE AFTER.

    With anagrams at 1ac and 1dn and 3dn, I thought I was in for a doddle. Not to be. Three already mentioned from the defs only and then totally stuck on the 18dn / 25ac / 22ac / 21dn mob.

    Catch Of the Day to SUMATRA for a great surface.

    1. You’ve reminded me I intended to mention POPOVER as an unknown, but the wordplay got me to the answer.

      And ‘funny magazine’ for PUNCH at 22ac may be open to contention under the Trades Descriptions Act, certainly in the magazine’s latter years, hence its decline and consignment to oblivion.

      1. Yeh I wondered about Punch: but it is only the surface that claims this. I think we can assume a good long pause between “funny” and “magazine” in this case!
  3. Gottingen is not a German city. Göttingen is, but in my book o is not ö.
    Similarly manana is not mañana but I won’t bore readers with more.
      1. The pragmatic view is: if, as in 15dn today, the offending letter does not check another answer, you can happily decorate it however you like! I did and have not regretted it one bit.
    2. There is a case for saying that where OE is available in English it should be used in preference to Ö/O. However accents in other letters are routinely ignored and it is clear from clues like today’s what the convention in the Times crossword is. I think we have to just get used to it!
  4. 40 minutes for this one with ages wasted after completing the grid trying to parse 2dn. It’s odd that such simple wordplay should cause so much bother (going by the number of early comments in the Forum) but it certainly caught me out. I guess it was the misdirection ‘cut head off’ which defines the word to be shortened instead of being an instruction to do so.

    I wondered about COR = ‘well’ in 6ac. Both are defined as an exclamation of surprise but does that actually make them interchangeable as such?

    It may be worth mentioning the significance of Putney to Mortlake in 11ac as the starting and finishing points of the annual University Boat Race on the Thames. The South Circular is the road that joins to two places.

    At 19ac, a child may be said to ‘favour’ its mother or father, for example, meaning it takes after one of them.

    1. Actually I’m not entirely sure that the South Circular does join the two places: it goes through East Sheen and Kew but may skirt Mortlake. A quick google search has failed to find a map showing the boundaries of Mortlake so I could well be wrong about this. Not that it matters in the least of course, for the purposes of the clue or otherwise.
        1. So it does: you can’t see this on Google maps because it’s called Hammersmith New Cemetery.
  5. About 30 minutes as long as I don’t count the length of time trying fully to resolve the parsing of COPRA, DODECAGON, TAKE AFTER and, especially, NORTH-EAST. COD to the rather cute 2dn. Thanks to george for the blog and to jackkt for the insight into TAKE AFTER.
  6. Hands off the late lamented Punch.. I have a soft spot for the magazine in general and for Alan Coren in particular.

    Easy one today, under 20mins even though there were one or two I had to think hard about the wordplay for

  7. Another RIGAL here, and I hadn’t even noticed until reading keriothe’s comment. 55 minutes for me; I think anyone who gets through this having grasped all the wordplay at first time of asking is doing well – although that’s not meant as a criticism in any way.
    1. Glad I’m not alone – I was so pleased with myself for remembering that RIGAL is a star from crosswords past that I ignored the word “posh”. A reminder never to ignore an element of wordplay that looks superfluous.
  8. Memories of the university of Essex, which has a paternoster lift in the library. Ah… Do any of the other solvers have fond recollection of unusual elevation systems?
    1. I remember that lift fondly…My Dad used to work for years at the University of Essex, and it was always a treat for us kids to have a go! Only one I’ve ever come across…
  9. 48 minutes, with much time spent on the parsings, having obtained the answers. The only unknown was PATERNOSTER as a lift; obviously a Northern Hemisphere thing. Some particularly devious constructions, such as DODECAGON and SEEING RED, but COD to PUNCHLINE.
  10. 16 minutes, but with a careless RIGAL for 28ac. Drat.
    A couple of unknowns (COPRA, the elevator, POPOVER) but more difficulty from the wordplay: it took me an age to figure out AVERAGE and NORTH-EAST, although they went in quite quickly from definition.
    For me the clue for 11ac is one where the requirement to indicate the DBE spoils the clue somewhat. “Maybe”, “say” and a question mark… does it really need all three? Particularly as the surface is so neat. I for one would favour a bit of licence here.
  12. 47:41 for me, but a mis-spelling in RIGAL (sic) and a typo elsewhere destroyed my score somewhat. Several answers went in without full understanding – EXE, DODECAGON, AVERAGE, NORTH-EAST & PATERNOSTER. Thanks to George for explaining them all. I’m just glad I wasn’t blogging it!
  13. Just got used to Cor=My and now we have Cor=Well! Agree with Jackkt above – if all exclamations become interchangeable, there could be no end to this!
    1. .. which of course is just what the setters will want. The poor s*ds have enough trouble as it is, being original day after day, without us trying to circumscribe their efforts with our imagined rules.. let ’em at it, is what I say..
      1. You’re right, it must be difficult to be original every day, and the rules are not for us solvers to make up. I do think that some outdated slang (IT, SA etc) could be consigned to history. I haven’t heard anyone say ‘Cor’ for many years – and suspect this was never common usage outside London (as in Cor Blimey). I do appreciate it when the puzzle includes recently-coined words – which give ample scope for originality.
  14. I completely agree with the blogger’s comment that many answers “came quickly by either wordplay or definition, but working them out from each other was not easy”.
    In my case I entered 7, 14, 19, 21 and 29 without fully understanding the wordplay, but feeling fairly positive of the answer. A very easy NE corner was completed in 2 minutes, but thereafter it became trickier, taking 30 minutes of my time. Last in was 2dn after I went through the alphabet for the unchecked letter; I was pretty sure I was looking for a river, not a flower.

    Lots of originality (ignoring 6a’s ‘cor!’, which is becoming a bit tired now). COD to 22 with its nounal use of ‘funny’

  15. Could someone explain why ‘favour’ is a defintion for ‘take after’? The latter means ‘resemble’, but I’ve never heard of someone, eg, favouring their mother.
  16. Sorry, just found the definition in Chambers. Never heard of this, but you learn something new every day!
  17. … and another struggle – more than 30 minutes again, largely thanks to the number of incorrect answers I managed to shoehorn in along the way, all of which took a lot of putting right. RIGAL remained unrighted. Glad to hear I wasn’t the Only One. Astronomy is definitely a black hole in this solver’s general knowledge.

    Ah, well. Tomorrow’s another day.

  18. I’m intrigued by GL’s calling this a phyllo treat. Treat indeed but they are made from the same recipe as Yorkshire pudding, sprinkled with parmesan and baked individually in a muffin pan. Completely irresistible and really easy. Learned it from my late American mother-in-law. They can be made with sugar instead of cheese but I don’t fancy them that way. 27 minutes and parsed ex post facto with more than a little help from here.
    1. My cooking leaves an awful lot to be desired – I’ve seen individual phyllo cakes called popovers, but your recipe sounds familiar. I had something in Brazil that was similar but extremely airy, and can’t remember the name of them now.
  19. Late musings… I guess I’m surprised that so many didn’t know POPOVER – Chambers doesn’t give an origin, so maybe it is far more popular in the US than the UK. RIGEL I thought would be a giveaway for people who learned their astronomy from The Hithchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (mining outposts there play drinking games with Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters).

    You learn something every month…

    1. ODE has it as North American, but Collins has:
      Britan individual Yorkshire pudding, often served with roast beef
      This seems to be the meaning in the clue.
      In my experience you very rarely see large Yorkshire puddings these days: most people (including me) make them in muffin or cupcake tins. I’ve never heard them called Popovers.
  20. Ogden Nash wrote:

    Let’s call Yorkshire pudding
    A fortunate blunder:
    It’s a sort of popover
    That turned and popped under.

  21. I think I was lucky to finish this at all. I entered far too many answers from definition alone. Consequently, I didn’t enjoy it much although, having read this fine blog, I can appreciate the cleverness of a lot of the clueing. My last in was EXE, another guess based on the checkers – I would never have got the cryptic! RIGEL was familiar not only from “Hitchhiker” but as a “Star Trek” staple. (I seem to remember “Rigel V” cropping up more than once.) 33 minutes
  22. Sorry to have been missing, but I’ve been very busy of late. I found this difficult, and I confess to needing aids to see COPRA. I’m also too used to ‘cor’ as ‘My!’, so it didn’t spring to mind. PATERNOSTER, EXE, DODECAGON and TAKE AFTER from definition side on;y, so thanks for the parsings. Regards to all.
  23. 11:27 for me, with several answers having to wait for full parsing until after I’d finished. POPOVER was yet another foodie answer that I’d never come across before. Misspelling of GOETTINGEN grated as usual. No problem with PATERNOSTER, as I first came across one in the Oxford University Engineering Lab back in the 1960s.
  24. There used to be one in Sheffield University Library. Dunno whether it is still there – haven’t been there since 1965.

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