Sunday Times 4477 (18 Mar 2012) – Ooooh, Matron!

Author   daveperryPosted on Categories Weekend Cryptic
Solving time: 35:28 – Held up at the end in the NW corner, today. Specifically by 5a. 5d & 6.

I normally find Tim’s quite tough and hard-going. But this one was most enjoyable. 30 made me titter in a Carry On / Frankie Howerd sort of a way. This was on top of SMALLS, THONGS, ‘Bare all’ and even RUMP, and I could go on. We were breeding in 26 and swearing in 6. Some might say it was all a bit LADDISH!

Although having said I enjoyed it, looking back now, I’m not sure why. While writing the blog, I have found an awful lot that I didn’t like. International Vehicle Registration Codes (IVRCs) were used twice, the removal of words where the letters are scattered was also done twice, and there were various other elements that niggled which I’ve mentioned in the breakdown.

On reflection then, I’d say it was a bit of fun at the time, although technically not up to Tim’s usual high standards. But I enjoyed it the solving process and maybe that’s the most important thing.

cd = cryptic def., dd = double def., rev = reversal, homophones are written in quotes, anagrams as (–)*, and removals like this

Across
1 SM(ALL)S – SMS (Short Message Service) is the official term for Text messages.
5 MISDOUBT = “MISSED OUT” – I’m still unconvinced about ‘Former suspect’ as a definition for MISDOUBT. I can’t seem to quite justify the part of speech.
9 MEDDLESOME = SOME after “MEDAL”
10 pILLS
11 DELIghts
12 DETER + MINE + D
14 ESTHER – hidden in provES THE Rule
16 RESTRAIN = (ISN’T RARE)* – although dress seems an odd anagrind
18 TAILSPIN = (ALPINIST)*
20 APPEAL = A + P + PAL about E – I’m not keen on the usage of IVRCs. It always feels like a bit of a cheat to me as there’s so many of them that no-one could be expected to know them all.
22 METATARSAL = MEAL about TATARS
24 RUM + Parliament – The Rump Parliament came into being in 1648, at the end of the English Civil War, and operated for 5 years. It was restored briefly in 1659-1660 shortly before the restoration of the monarchy.
26 BR + ED – Ed Miliband is the current leader of the Opposition here in the UK.
27 PERSECUTOR = (SEE CORRUPT)*
29 AWAY GAME = MAGYAr rev in AWE
30 ROBUST = IRON with IN removed (cast), so iROn + BUST (knockers – titter ye not!) – another slightly dubious element here. IN hasn’t really been removed from IRON, the letters of it have, because the letters are not together.
Down
2 M + YE/YE
3 LADDISH = (DID)* in LASH
4 SPEED TRAP = (fAST ReP in DEEP)* – I put this in from the definition alone, but now I’ve (just) worked out the wordplay, I’m afraid I hate it. I have the same problem with this one as I did with 30, only this one is worse. Removing 2 letters from 4 is bad enough, but removing 4 randomly placed letters from 13, and then muddling them all up, goes way too far for me. Again, FINE hasn’t been removed, the letters of it have, and this hasn’t been indicated.
5 MOOd – It took me an age to cotton on to the LOW = MOO idea, even though I’ve seen it many times before.
6 S + WEAR – this one also took me an age, but purely because I misread the clue Course instead of Curse. Once I’d spotted my mistake it went in straight away. I wasn’t sure about ‘sun’ for S, but it’s in my Chambers so I guess it’s fair game.
7 OLIV(I)ER – Oliver Hardy was the third one I thought of after Thomas and Amies. I thought at first there was a mistake here due to the ‘one’ doing double duty, believing that ‘one in the theatre’ was the definition for Lord Lawrence. But then I remembered the he gave his name to the main auditorium in the National Theatre, so the definition is just ‘theatre’.
8 BALLERINA = (BARE ALL IN)*
13 TH(R)ONGS
15 SCARECROW = (SOCCER WAR)* – I didn’t like the ‘in’ separating the anagrind from the anagrist. It threw me off the scent for a while in what was otherwise a straightforward clue.
17 SMALL BEER – dd
19 LEAP DAY – cd
21 PERTURB = BRUT + REP all rev – I noticed that someone on the discussion page passed comment on the use of ‘aspiring’ as a reversal indicator. I had no problem with it, and indeed Chambers lists ‘to tower up’ under the entry for ‘aspire’ which I think covers it.
23 ALP + H + A – The definition is simply the initial ‘A’, but there’s another IVRC here, and a more obscure one than Spain (albeit a more logically obvious one). I’m sure I read somewhere (maybe an entry in the Monthly Clue-writing Challenge) that The Times no longer uses them. If that’s true, then I think that’s a good thing.
25 MO(ON)S – As in the expression ‘many moons ago’.
28 RYE – hidden in yesteRYEar

14 comments on “Sunday Times 4477 (18 Mar 2012) – Ooooh, Matron!”

  1. 45 minutes for this mostly very enjoyable puzzle. I had thought the device employed at 30 was quite clever as a one-off but I missed that it was used again at 4dn and I agree it’s very unsatisfactory there. I realise now that I mis-parsed 4dn where I had taken ‘fine’ as F (pencil-lead, for one) which I removed from ‘fast rep deep’ to arrive at the anagrist, but this would have left an E surplus to requirements.
  2. I shall leap to Tim’s defence. It seems to me that all the devices complained about are fair and good quality clueing.

    At 5A “former” is telling you its an archaic usage. At 16A “dress” is a common anagrind. At 20A E for Espana and at 23D A for Austria are in Chambers. At 30A and 4D you really are splitting hairs. At 15D he’s saying “if you anagram this answer you get soccer war”.

    By Tim’s standards this was an easy puzzle but still many rungs above the rubbish that used to appear as the Sunday Times cryptic. Keep up the good work Tim.

    1. Jim,
      You want to give a good excuse for 30ac? “In cast iron” = RO is surely a bit much. Not to mention the sad schoolboy muffled titter and “this” as the literal.
      1. It doesn’t need an excuse – perfectly good clue

        Tim is saying “take “iron” with the letters “in” cast (removed)”. Seems fine to me. Knockers=bust is in Chambers. Then the whole clue says if you make a (door) knocker out of cast iron it is robust. Any tittering is in your mind!

        Edited at 2012-03-25 09:30 am (UTC)

      2. And that was the better of the two. The one I am really unhappy about is 4dn having discovered it didn’t work the way I originally thought. Having to remove four letters randomly distributed amongst four words to arrive at the anagrist is a bit much in my book. Once accepted as a legitimate ploy there’s no end to where that might lead.
        1. Can’t see your problem Jack. The clue says “with the letters of “fine” removed (issued) “fast rep in deep” can be anagrammed to give speed trap”. What’s wrong with that?
          1. But again it’s not “the letters of fine” it’s “fine”. And “this” as the literal again cf.30. Obviously we’ll have to agree to differ, Jim.

            I also disagree about “the rubbish that used to appear as the Sunday Times cryptic” which I think is a bit insulting to the people who produced it . To some extent it was a different sort of puzzle for a different market (from the daily Times) but that doesn’t make it rubbish although I would agree the standard of editing left a lot to be desired on occasion.

            Edited at 2012-03-25 12:19 pm (UTC)

  3. Smalls, busts, even playing away. Delightfully rompy. Our Three Sunday Musketeers are raising each other’s game.
  4. I seem to have taken forever on this one, although I can no longer remember why.
    For what it’s worth, I thought ROBUST was a very clever clue, although it would never occur to me to use the word ‘knockers’ any more than I would ‘boobs’; and the vulgarity of the word–in the Times, forsooth–kept me from twigging to the solution for a while. (Of course, it’s also a Rupert Murdoch paper, so why should I be surprised?)
    I learned early on–from this blog, indeed–that the ban on living persons’ names did not apply to the ST; should I assume that anything goes? I’m sure I read somewhere that IVRCs are banned. And I was faulted in an early clue contest attempt because I deleted an H and a non-adjacent M by ‘Queen leaves’ or something like that.
  5. “Should I assume that anything goes?”

    No, but you shouldn’t assume that something not allowed somewhere else is therefore not allowed at the Sunday Times. The primary question for me when editing is whether the puzzle is solvable.

    The “separated letters” approach in 30A and 4D is accepted by Azed, successor of Ximenes at the Observer and generally accepted as the current leader of the “Ximenean” school.

    IVR codes: I honestly can’t see any objection to the ones for European countries, which you could see on UK roads.

    Other points:

    Part of speech at 5A, “misdoubt” is a verb, and “suspect” can be a verb.

    16A anagram indicator: “dress” has meanings which amount to “arrange”.

    Peter Biddlecombe
    Sunday Times Crossword Editor

    1. Thanks for your response, Peter. I’ll concede that the anagrind at 16 is fine, and that the more common and/or obvious IVR codes are generally OK. With regard to the removal of separated letters – I still don’t think it’s fair that the required separation of the letters isn’t suggested by the clue. If the setter had found a way to get ‘elements of’ or something similar into it then I would have had no problem with it at all.
      As for 5a, surely the definition here is not ‘suspect’ but ‘former suspect’, and while suspect can certainly be a verb, I’m not sure that ‘former’ can be an adverb. So it’s this part of speech that bothered me.
      1. Former relates to the word “suspect” rather than its meaning – it’s supposed to help by giving you a reason why you’ve never heard “misdoubt” in everyday conversation.
  6. Don Putnam’s Crossword Manual includes this as a perfectly legitimate type of clue, and it’s regularly used by Azed and the Listener.
    The anagrist is ‘fast rep in deep’ giving an anagram of ‘speed trap’ + ‘fine’: as the whole string is to be anagrammed, where the letters of ‘fine’ occur is irrelevant.
    1. Explained like that it makes perfect sense, anagram the lot then remove ‘fine’. Simply a different way of thinking that changes my perception of the clue. Thank you, Anon.

Comments are closed.